/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-06-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 04 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  11. # [00:15] <eonl> hmm, trying to validate an html5 doc. Getting an error for putting <br> at the end of <li> elements in an <ul>. I need them to have more space, should this be done via css? Don't see why I should but breaks in a list?
  12. # [00:17] <lancehunt> li elements are already block elements by default, which implies the br is redundant
  13. # [00:17] <lancehunt> so, yes I would use css for any additional margins/padding you want
  14. # [00:18] <eonl> ah, the block thing. Thanks for clearing that up, css it is :P
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  43. # [01:20] <tw2113> JonathanNeal guess what
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  72. # [02:56] <kill-9_> what?
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  81. # [03:17] <grantg> Worst hack ever to work around platform-specific firefox bugs: https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online/commit/f73863b974a7e9245291cfd9ea5ce8363567452c
  82. # [03:17] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on GameBoy-Online by grantgalitz (4m, 49s ago): XAudioJS update.
  83. # [03:17] <grantg> For anyone who cares: DO NOT USE THE MOZILLA AUDIO DATA API in firefox for anything other than on mac os x
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  85. # [03:18] <grantg> literally forced it to skip non-mac on platform detection as firefox has audio stream bugs on windows and linux
  86. # [03:19] <grantg> so now firefox will use the flash fallback on windows
  87. # [03:19] <grantg> the moz audio api is faulty and no one should attempt to further use it until they redo it
  88. # [03:19] <grantg> no, really
  89. # [03:19] <grantg> the prebuffer bullshit is a bug in of itself
  90. # [03:20] <grantg> test out the latency and try to aim for a 100 ms latency on winXP
  91. # [03:20] <grantg> firefox will mis-report numbers in mozCurrentSampleOffset
  92. # [03:20] <grantg> as firefox fails to buffer right on Windows and Linux
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  94. # [03:21] <grantg> at least chrome's web audio api works similar across platforms for the most part with buffering
  95. # [03:21] <grantg> and doesn't completely fail at buffering on most OSes
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  187. # [06:22] <JonathanNeal> tw2113: what's that?
  188. # [06:22] <tw2113> you made it onto a mix cd!
  189. # [06:22] <tw2113> you know, one of those plastic disc things
  190. # [06:22] <JonathanNeal> all right, which track?
  191. # [06:22] <tw2113> popular in the 90s and still to the RIAA
  192. # [06:23] <tw2113> You Are A Unicorn
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  194. # [06:27] <JonathanNeal> Nice :D
  195. # [06:27] <tw2113> compiling my list of tracks for the car, and needed 1 last track
  196. # [06:28] <tw2113> suddenly that one came to mind and i was like "must...close...mix"
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  198. # [06:28] <tw2113> almost like a hidden one
  199. # [06:29] <JonathanNeal> YOU DREAMED YOU'RE A UNICORN
  200. # [06:29] <JonathanNeal> what kind of mix CD is it?
  201. # [06:30] <tw2113> no specific topic really
  202. # [06:30] <tw2113> but it's going under my fake band aka band name i'd use if i was musically inclined
  203. # [06:31] <tw2113> "Achoo and the Sneezes"
  204. # [06:31] <tw2113> it is named well though...."Bacon is Satan's Candy"
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  276. # [09:27] <SrPx> Not sure where to ask. What is a fast way to keep ttrack of my visits?
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  331. # [10:51] <SrPx> Would you guys reccomend me a good free host for an emergency sittuation?
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  335. # [10:55] <moo-_-> SrPx: good and free are mutually exclusive
  336. # [10:55] <moo-_-> and you don't state your site requirements
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  339. # [10:56] <SrPx> just has to serve a 3k lines .js file and a 100 lines html file for a small amount of time for not so many people
  340. # [10:57] <moo-_-> google appengine
  341. # [10:57] <moo-_-> github pages
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  343. # [10:59] <moo-_-> they are the most developer friendly options
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  355. # [11:12] <bolosaur> Hey guys. Any good HTML5 programmers here?
  356. # [11:12] <bolosaur> I'm a front-end dev with little knowledge of pure JS, and I want to specialize in HTML5 programming and application development.
  357. # [11:12] <bolosaur> Anyone else done the same thing?
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  362. # [11:20] <mokush> bolosaur: diveintohtml5.info, html5rocks.com, developer.mozilla.org
  363. # [11:20] <bolosaur> Cheers mate.
  364. # [11:20] <bolosaur> I ordered about 5 HTML5 books too.
  365. # [11:21] <bolosaur> I'm stoked.
  366. # [11:21] <mokush> bolosaur: http://dev.opera.com/ also has some good stuff ( by me :P )
  367. # [11:21] <bolosaur> Nice mate.
  368. # [11:21] <bolosaur> Thanks.
  369. # [11:21] <mokush> bolosaur: diveintohtml5.info is mark pilgrim's book, so it's also in paperback
  370. # [11:21] <mokush> great book.
  371. # [11:21] <bolosaur> Hm
  372. # [11:21] <bolosaur> I think I bought it?
  373. # [11:21] <bolosaur> I'm not sure.
  374. # [11:21] <bolosaur> I recognize the name.
  375. # [11:21] <bolosaur> Oh
  376. # [11:22] <bolosaur> Yeah, that's one of the books I bought. :D
  377. # [11:22] <mokush> well, you didn't waste the money. it's a great book
  378. # [11:22] <manuchill> you could read it online for free though ;)
  379. # [11:24] <mokush> manuchill: I'm not sure mark would agree with you (even if he did publish it online first) :P
  380. # [11:24] <bolosaur> manuchill: Well, I'd rather read it in paper.
  381. # [11:24] <bolosaur> Much more comfortable imo.
  382. # [11:24] <manuchill> whats with Mark nowadays.... still in internet silence?
  383. # [11:24] <bolosaur> So are you guys pro HTML5 devs?
  384. # [11:25] <manuchill> any ideas mokush ?
  385. # [11:25] <mokush> manuchill: as far as I know, he pulled the `luckystiff`, and nothing else.
  386. # [11:26] <mokush> he probably got sick of all the fanboys and 9gag online
  387. # [11:26] <manuchill> well its a long time already..
  388. # [11:27] <mokush> bolosaur: there's no actual thing as a 'html5 dev'. html 5 is just a spec, includes new elements, javascript apis, etc. an overrated html4 (joke)
  389. # [11:27] <mokush> manuchill: http://meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/2011/10/04/searching-for-mark-pilgrim/ this is the latest news I think
  390. # [11:28] <bolosaur> mokush: Isn't html5 development/programming synonymous with making canvas webapps?
  391. # [11:29] <manuchill> nope, canvas is part of the spec and html5 doesnt cover just this bit ;)
  392. # [11:29] <manuchill> its more :)
  393. # [11:30] <mokush> bolosaur: no, canvas is just a new element, with a new js api, with which you can do crazy sht like http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6213850/WebGL/nyanCat/nyan.html
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  395. # [11:33] <bolosaur> mokush: Yeah I know what it is.
  396. # [11:33] <bolosaur> But canvas/audio support/networking is like
  397. # [11:33] <bolosaur> a big step up from HTML4+JS
  398. # [11:33] <bolosaur> so I assume that making webapps using these apis is what people are referring to when they call themselves html5 devs
  399. # [11:34] <bolosaur> Wouldn't you agree?
  400. # [11:38] <mokush> bolosaur: people refer to a lot of things when they call themselves "html5 devs", most of them wrong, like css3, properietary apis and extensions, and so on.
  401. # [11:39] <mokush> html is also a `living standard` now, so it doesn't make sense to refer to html5. it's just a buzzword
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  403. # [11:39] <mokush> but yes, the new apis and elements are a huge step
  404. # [11:40] <bolosaur> Well
  405. # [11:40] <bolosaur> why not use it as an umbrella term for html5 app development?
  406. # [11:41] <bolosaur> at least that's what i wanna do :P
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  408. # [11:42] <manuchill> you're free to choose what you want but i agree with mokush .. "living standard"
  409. # [11:43] <mokush> bolosaur: that's the way it's pretty much used right now, and I have no problem with that but..
  410. # [11:44] <mokush> I get clients that tell me they want me to "convert their ios mobile apps to html5 mobile apps", whatever than means
  411. # [11:44] <bolosaur> Wouldn't that mean they want an interactive html5 site styled like their ios app?
  412. # [11:44] <manuchill> lol ^
  413. # [11:44] <mokush> and they basicaly want a phonegap app, to run on all platforms, not even "web" apps
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  415. # [11:44] <bolosaur> oic
  416. # [11:44] <moo-_-> mokush: it's just sad
  417. # [11:44] <mokush> so I think this "html5 umbrella" got a git too far
  418. # [11:44] <bolosaur> Heh.
  419. # [11:45] <moo-_-> I meet organizations like that too
  420. # [11:45] <bolosaur> Well, I'm still stoked about HTML5 for this very reason; app development. :)
  421. # [11:45] <bolosaur> But I'm kind of stupid, so I hope I manage to learn it, hehe.
  422. # [11:45] <mokush> once the ball started rolling, html5 can mean basicly anything, just like "wat"
  423. # [11:45] <bolosaur> mokush: Yeah I recognize that.
  424. # [11:45] <moo-_-> bolosaur: the sad thing is that "mobile apps" in HTML5 don't run very well on other platforms if they are designed by people who don't know what HTML5 really is
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  427. # [11:48] <bolosaur> moo-_-: How do you mean?
  428. # [11:48] <bolosaur> If a person knows how to build a HTML5 app, why wouldn't they have the knowledge to make it cross-browser/platform compatible?
  429. # [11:50] <moo-_-> bolosaur: device constrains
  430. # [11:50] <moo-_-> i.e. slow android
  431. # [11:50] <moo-_-> if you build a HTML5 app which is "iPhone app ported to HTML5" it will be crappy
  432. # [11:51] <bolosaur> ah
  433. # [11:51] <moo-_-> "interactive html5 site styled like their ios app"
  434. # [11:51] <bolosaur> well
  435. # [11:51] <bolosaur> i personally skip android when developing
  436. # [11:51] <bolosaur> unless i specifically need to do it
  437. # [11:51] <moo-_-> you cheat :)
  438. # [11:51] <moo-_-> next... you'll skip IE in web dev :P
  439. # [11:51] <bolosaur> nah
  440. # [11:51] <bolosaur> im too much of a purist to do that
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  442. # [11:52] <bolosaur> :P
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  447. # [11:55] <bolosaur> Well, thanks for the info. I'll get back to you guys once I've coded my uber cool new IPHONE APP IN HTML5!!!!
  448. # [11:55] <bolosaur> ;)
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  453. # [12:03] <mokush> bolosaur: yeah, makes sure it's at least as cool as the webgl nyan cat
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  455. # [12:03] <bolosaur> haha didnt know there was one
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  457. # [12:07] <moo-_-> in fact webgl nyan cat will run on jailbroken iphone, I guess :)
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  465. # [12:26] <mokush> moo-_-: will run on jailbroken iphone IN phonegap!
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  498. # [13:33] <austincheney> an html5 slideshow i wrote http://prettydiff.com/slideshowdemo.xhtml
  499. # [13:33] <austincheney> any feedback, criticism, or bugs are greatly appreciated
  500. # [13:40] <vikash> austincheney, Nice. but in my point of view 1)Reduce text. To me reading text is boring and use a few images. Its really too much text 2) Add support for <Spacebar>. It is used my many while giving presentations
  501. # [13:40] <vikash> Rest is cool
  502. # [13:40] <austincheney> vikash what would you expect the spacebar to do?
  503. # [13:40] <vikash> [This is just for my clarification] Why BSD-3 license
  504. # [13:40] <austincheney> move forward one slide?
  505. # [13:40] <vikash> next-slide same as Right
  506. # [13:41] <vikash> Yup
  507. # [13:41] <austincheney> vikash i chose BSD3 to allow maximum openness but at the same time entirely disconnect myself from any instances derived by strangers
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  509. # [13:42] <vikash> o.O how is Creative Common different [I have no idea of licenses]
  510. # [13:42] <austincheney> vikash i will work to break the text apart into multiple slides. i will probably not take text out, because this technically an instruction manual
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  512. # [13:43] <austincheney> It has been too long since I have read the CC licenses
  513. # [13:43] <vikash> austincheney, ya that would be better
  514. # [13:43] <vikash> Cool ;-), I know we are programmers and not lawyers
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  516. # [13:45] <vikash> austincheney, once, you add it github lemme know. I will try to add transitions and all
  517. # [13:46] <austincheney> actually, i already have transisitions built in using JavaScript instead of CSS
  518. # [13:46] <austincheney> slide 8 is an example
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  520. # [13:47] <austincheney> this way the tranisitions are accounted for in the navigation and become a bit more custom and intelligent
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  522. # [13:48] <vikash> Why not use CSS3. If you want to blame it to old browsers. I wont say a word and I do understand :D
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  524. # [13:52] <austincheney> naw, this wont work in old browsers anyways
  525. # [13:52] <austincheney> try moving from slide 7 to slide 8 and then to slide 9
  526. # [13:52] <austincheney> now you have gone through the transisitions
  527. # [13:52] <austincheney> now move back to slide 8
  528. # [13:52] <austincheney> the transitions are gone
  529. # [13:53] <austincheney> there is no need, imo, of forcing the user to go through them over and over if then just want to scroll back for something
  530. # [13:53] <vikash> austincheney, +1
  531. # [13:54] <vikash> I love that
  532. # [13:55] <austincheney> working on setting up the github repo now
  533. # [13:55] <austincheney> this is always so confusing for me so i cannot promise i will be done in the next 2 mins
  534. # [13:56] * Parts: manuchill (~mstalfoor@83.232.96.217) ("kthxbai")
  535. # [13:56] <vikash> austincheney, http://www.slideshare.net/vikashagrawal1990/git-9960718
  536. # [13:56] <vikash> it contains basics related to git
  537. # [13:57] <austincheney> k, looking
  538. # [13:57] <austincheney> i just setup a new directory and performed the git init
  539. # [13:58] <austincheney> i added the slideshow file
  540. # [13:58] <vikash> austincheney, you can start reading from slide 41
  541. # [13:58] <austincheney> did the commit
  542. # [13:58] <vikash> Did you made the repo at github?
  543. # [13:58] <austincheney> then when i went to push it started throwing an error
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  545. # [13:58] <austincheney> yes, at github
  546. # [13:58] <vikash> austincheney, they would have listed everything
  547. # [13:59] * johnkpaul-afk is now known as johnkpaul
  548. # [13:59] <vikash> austincheney, Also, I am writing HTML5 and CSS3 examples for MDN. So you can checkout https://github.com/ivikash/Examples-for-the-web for few examples
  549. # [13:59] <vikash> I will keep adding stuff for atleast next 3 months
  550. # [14:00] <austincheney> i will check it out
  551. # [14:00] <vikash> Sure. my pleasure
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  554. # [14:00] <austincheney> this weekend also started my own How To guide for becoming a web developer in the shortest amount of time
  555. # [14:00] <vikash> austincheney, by today or tomorrow I will add trasitions too there
  556. # [14:01] <austincheney> i have been getting pressure from each of my employeers recently to write this
  557. # [14:01] <austincheney> k
  558. # [14:01] <vikash> austincheney, it would be great if you could make that open source
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  560. # [14:01] <vikash> and put on github
  561. # [14:01] <vikash> I will also love to help you on that
  562. # [14:01] <austincheney> i will certainly make it open source
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  564. # [14:02] <vikash> Do share the link with me
  565. # [14:02] <austincheney> i can send you what i have so far
  566. # [14:02] <austincheney> its about 10% complete and just text though
  567. # [14:02] <vikash> austincheney, add it to github
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  569. # [14:02] <austincheney> k
  570. # [14:02] <austincheney> too early for github though
  571. # [14:02] <vikash> and trust me open source projects never completes, they just get updated and updated
  572. # [14:03] <vikash> austincheney, I learned a quote last week and its perfect. Its just on my opposite wall
  573. # [14:03] <vikash> "Done is better than perfect"
  574. # [14:03] <austincheney> lol
  575. # [14:03] <austincheney> i agree
  576. # [14:04] <vikash> Commit early and regularly with apt messages
  577. # [14:04] <vikash> thats it
  578. # [14:04] <vikash> :-)
  579. # [14:04] <vikash> were the slides helpful for git?
  580. # [14:09] <austincheney> yes
  581. # [14:09] <vikash> :-)
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  630. # [15:27] <mene> has anyone some kind of tip how to get started with html5?
  631. # [15:28] <pitchfork> start reading?
  632. # [15:28] <pitchfork> can you not read the topic?
  633. # [15:28] * Quits: vikash (~vikash@unaffiliated/vikash) (Quit: Leaving)
  634. # [15:28] <pitchfork> Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa
  635. # [15:29] <pitchfork> https://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&tok=R3KjNG7_nxbL1qg0w3Rwew&cp=22&gs_id=3&xhr=t&q=get+started+with+html5&pf=p&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=get+started+with+html5&aq=0&aqi=g1g-K2g-q1&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=412c8843277392dd&biw=1280&bih=714
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  639. # [15:34] <mene> damn. this is embarassing. sorry..
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  713. # [17:30] * trinket <3's diveintohtml5
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  720. # [17:37] <loincloth> well hallo
  721. # [17:37] <loincloth> randomly tried this room and BEHOLD..
  722. # [17:38] <loincloth> i'm looking for help understanding some behavior of html5 video tags in webkit
  723. # [17:38] <loincloth> i'm seeing a behavior where the player does not respond to the first input.. say, a click
  724. # [17:38] <loincloth> but subsequent interactions work normally
  725. # [17:38] <loincloth> initial searches are not revealing much info.. consider this a bug, but not sure how to fix.. any tips?
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  727. # [17:39] <loincloth> including perhaps a better place to ask :)
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  731. # [17:49] <xec> loincloth: it's not something i've noticed before. do you have a live site/url that demonstrates this? have you seen this behaviour on other sites?
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  739. # [18:01] <JonathanNeal> remysharp: I think we can do even more with that polyfill.
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  742. # [18:03] <loincloth> xec: gonna try to reproduce a simple case..
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  756. # [18:07] <xec> loincloth: there is a #webkit channel btw, might be better for webkit only stuff
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  759. # [18:09] <uf0> .
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  788. # [18:23] <loincloth> xec: well i produced a simple test case.. it does not exhibit there
  789. # [18:23] <loincloth> so i guess that means it's something with this other specific context
  790. # [18:24] <loincloth> which involves multiple possible culprits, i suppose.. javascript on the page.. server configs.. not sure.. but thanks for nudging me toward a test case :)
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  879. # [18:57] <rgervais> yeah
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  1003. # [21:26] <rgervais> can somone explain to me the point of this? http://scottjehl.github.com/CSS-Download-Tests/
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  1005. # [21:26] <rgervais> is it just to point out that regardless of any media query it'll be downloaded regardlesss?
  1006. # [21:27] <rgervais> or am I wrong here?
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  1014. # [21:39] <Jon47> no i think that's right
  1015. # [21:40] <Jon47> i think the idea of it is that you don't want to download things that you won't be using, particularly if you're on a mobile device and bandwidth is very limited
  1016. # [21:40] <rgervais> ok..
  1017. # [21:40] <rgervais> so are they for or against media query
  1018. # [21:40] <rgervais> i'm still trying to get the point
  1019. # [21:40] <rgervais> is it that... MQs in the future should avoid this
  1020. # [21:40] <rgervais> what..
  1021. # [21:41] <rgervais> media query is all we can use for responsive sites
  1022. # [21:41] <Jon47> yeah I think the idea is that it would be better if they did not follow the links to resources that don't apply to them
  1023. # [21:41] <Jon47> are you the comedian ricky gervais?!
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  1025. # [21:41] <rgervais> right but currently that's not possible
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  1027. # [21:42] <rgervais> neither through
  1028. # [21:42] <rgervais> embedded MQs
  1029. # [21:42] <rgervais> nor external
  1030. # [21:42] <rgervais> am I wrong on this?
  1031. # [21:42] <rgervais> yes I'm the comedian
  1032. # [21:42] <Jon47> i dunno much about the practical implementation of media queries, just a bit about the concept
  1033. # [21:43] <Jon47> maybe he's proposing a browser optimization taht could be made
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  1036. # [21:46] <Velmont> I'm not really thrilled about the media queries for serving smaller images.
  1037. # [21:47] <Velmont> Media Queries are the web authors domain, the browser should not and can not really infer and do much about them. Because they're so flexible that it's hard to understand what to do.
  1038. # [21:47] <Velmont> So it acts stupid, for compat reasons etc.
  1039. # [21:48] <Velmont> Having a new, declarative/descriptive syntax with no behaviour attached is a IMHO much nicer route. Because you will make it easy for the browser to optimize and choose what it wants.
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  1041. # [21:49] <Velmont> With MQ's we'll just download everything because it's very possible that the rest of the site is relying on it. Anyway, you don't want to infer a penalty of waiting for a network request when something happens.
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  1045. # [21:55] <rgervais> right..
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  1047. # [21:56] <rgervais> the best we can do for now is have it embedded
  1048. # [21:56] <rgervais> that's it.
  1049. # [21:56] <rgervais> to minimize HTTP requests.
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  1062. # [22:09] <Velmont> We fixed that bug, that Opera 11 didn't download the nonsense media query. :-) So now it does! :D
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  1145. # [23:49] <daleharvey> WOOHOO - http://pouchdb.com/
  1146. # [23:49] <daleharvey> I thoght I was going to be too busy to ever get that out
  1147. # [23:49] <daleharvey> cc paul_irish :P
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  1149. # [23:50] <daleharvey> cheers for the intro, it helped a lot
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  1151. # [23:58] <paul_irish> daleharvey: what intro?
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  1153. # [23:58] <paul_irish> congrats on shipping!! :D
  1154. # [23:58] <paul_irish> awesome
  1155. # [23:59] <daleharvey> to Joshua for the indexeddb help
  1156. # [23:59] <tw2113> woo! someone shipped stuff!
  1157. # [23:59] <tw2113> *high fives all around*
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  1159. # Session Close: Tue Jun 05 00:00:00 2012

The end :)