/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-06-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 06 00:00:01 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  34. # [00:29] <sunbeam> is there some sort of firebug tool for IE9?
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  36. # [00:31] <edwardbc_> sunbeam: press F12, that's all you get
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  82. # [01:18] <tw2113> https://github.com/tw2113/tweetQuery
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  92. # [01:36] <paul_irish> nice tw2113!
  93. # [01:36] <tw2113> simple and to the point
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  123. # [02:14] <lep> question concerning Modernizr - I want to detect svg support , works ok but i'm using a filter feGaussianBlur. how do i detect support for that?
  124. # [02:15] <paul_irish> lep: there are some recent discussions on that..
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  127. # [02:15] <lep> paul_irish: can you send me a link?
  128. # [02:16] <paul_irish> lep: https://github.com/Modernizr/Modernizr/commit/1419cd3ba0a504abab6ce236a43a775918523aa1
  129. # [02:16] <socialhapy> ★ Commit on Modernizr by paulirish (3w, 4d ago): add svg filter detect by @erikdahlstrom. fixes #531
  130. # [02:16] <paul_irish> this is spefically for svg filters used on svg content
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  136. # [02:22] <lep> paul_irish: thanks i've found this before http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9739955/feature-detecting-support-for-svg-filters
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  139. # [02:22] <lep> and using just these two lines of code instead of using Modernizr
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  145. # [02:27] <paul_irish> lep: yes. it's written by Erik in both cases.
  146. # [02:27] <paul_irish> lep: the point in modernizr's case is that you can have a little more confidence in it working since modernizr is tested well across all browsers
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  149. # [02:28] <paul_irish> rather than pulling a two liners off SO with that caveat "I've not tested to see whether this works as expected in Safari."
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  158. # [02:43] <lep> paul_irish: if i understand correctly it's safer to use Modernizr Library in my web applications and extend it with another js file than to just use feature detection
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  283. # [06:11] <Validatorian> I've heard that the <figcaption> should be either the first or last element in a <figure> -- is this correct, or would it be acceptable to have a link after the figcaption, but within the figure?
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  302. # [06:52] <paul_irish> Validatorian: whats the validator say
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  304. # [06:53] <mike5w3c> "Validatorian" is a great nick
  305. # [06:53] <paul_irish> :D
  306. # [06:54] <mike5w3c> I think the spec is pretty clear on where figcaption's allowed
  307. # [06:54] <mike5w3c> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/grouping-content.html#the-figure-element
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  311. # [06:56] <mike5w3c> Validatorian: would not be acceptable to have a link after figcaption of there's content before the figcaption
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  314. # [07:03] <mike5w3c> paul_irish: nice work on your accessibility write-up, btw
  315. # [07:03] <mike5w3c> (not that all the other stuff you do isn't nice work as well)
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  323. # [07:12] <paul_irish> thxx
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  325. # [07:13] <tw2113> paul_irish is a fear mongerer....stuck with IE8 til 2115
  326. # [07:13] <tw2113> :P
  327. # [07:13] <paul_irish> tw2113: ? you think ie8 has a short shelf life?
  328. # [07:14] <tw2113> nah, i'm just teasin
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  330. # [07:15] <tw2113> i wish it did though
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  332. # [07:16] <tw2113> getting people to update is one of the biggest hindrances of our profession
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  334. # [07:17] <tw2113> i think i saw that Firefox users were slowing in updating too, which isn't great news
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  336. # [07:18] <Validatorian> sorry, was on the phone -- I actually didn't check the validator, I got the same link mike5w3c posted, and after reading a bit more into it, I decided that a figure likely wasn't semantically correct for my purposes (game img, title, then install button) but I still haven't found any semantic markup I'm really satisfied with. I'm contemplating using <img/> <h3/> <a/> -- the h3 is really what I
  337. # [07:18] <Validatorian> don't like. It's not a header. Nor is it a paragraph, but it's not really a caption of the img either, so I'm not sure :-/
  338. # [07:19] <mike5w3c> Validatorian: I see
  339. # [07:19] <tw2113> how's life otherwise paul_irish ?
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  341. # [07:22] <Validatorian> tw2113: Can you point me to the IE8 til 2115 post/comment? Sounds intriguing, but google isn't finding it (and it doesn't appear to be on paul's homepage)
  342. # [07:23] <tw2113> the 2115 part was sarcasm
  343. # [07:23] <Validatorian> *whew*
  344. # [07:23] <paul_irish> :)
  345. # [07:23] <paul_irish> ill show you something tho
  346. # [07:25] <tw2113> http://paulirish.com/2011/browser-market-pollution-iex-is-the-new-ie6/
  347. # [07:26] <paul_irish> i need a new post
  348. # [07:26] <paul_irish> on that
  349. # [07:26] <paul_irish> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version_partially_combined-ww-weekly-200827-201223
  350. # [07:26] <paul_irish> ^ ^
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  352. # [07:26] <paul_irish> look at IE8 in teh past few months
  353. # [07:26] <paul_irish> plateau'ing
  354. # [07:27] <paul_irish> basically
  355. # [07:28] <paul_irish> it seems like msft has reached the ends of what they can do to move IE8 -> IE9
  356. # [07:28] <paul_irish> and we're stuck with IE8 on XP
  357. # [07:28] <paul_irish> operating system for same: http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-weekly-200827-201223
  358. # [07:29] <tw2113> i'm running Fedora 15 on this laptop, and it's just about EOL
  359. # [07:29] <paul_irish> if that trendline keeps up, then we have 2.3 more years of XP
  360. # [07:29] <tw2113> oh XP
  361. # [07:30] <gildean> paul_irish: iirc ms offers support for xp until 2014
  362. # [07:30] <tw2113> probably the best version of their OS they've ever done, and people are sticking to it like it is
  363. # [07:31] <paul_irish> April 8th, 2014
  364. # [07:32] <gildean> yeah, that's almost two years from now
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  369. # [07:32] <Validatorian> Have you given Windows8 a test run yet? Any thoughts on whether many people will adopt it, or do you think the majority will stick with XP/Win7?
  370. # [07:32] <gildean> but i can guarantee there still will be millions of xp mavhines out there in 2014
  371. # [07:33] <gildean> Validatorian: tested it out on a friends desktop, didn't like it
  372. # [07:33] <gildean> at least not based on a quick test, it seemed like a step back in productivity
  373. # [07:33] <tw2113> at least people have mostly ditched vista for 7
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  376. # [07:35] <gildean> i use linux on all my computers anyways theses days, tho' i still have one hdd with win7 if i want to play skyrim or something
  377. # [07:36] <tw2113> i use 7 for photoshop, and windows testing, about it
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  379. # [07:36] <tw2113> oops, forgot itunes and tweetdeck while i'm there
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  381. # [07:39] <gildean> i'm running ubuntu 12.04 on this macine, imo the first ubuntu release with unity to work properly ootb
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  400. # [08:20] <vissree> hi, can somebody help me understand a url of type http://domainname.com/some.php?#feed.txt ?
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  422. # [08:42] <trinket> that url tells your browser to go to address domainname.com and find on some.php, feed.txt
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  427. # [08:49] <tw2113> it would without the ?
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  430. # [08:49] <tw2113> the ? says to me, $_GET parameters
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  457. # [09:26] <vikash_> Simple #CSS3 transitions on stick figures http://thimbletest.org/p/dy0
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  578. # [12:28] <vikash> hi Everyone, I made simple stickfigure using CSS and added transition http://thimbletest.org/p/dy0. Now I want to make entire stich figure as one object. so that when I call it I get the entire stickfigure. so what should be the way for this?
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  673. # [14:42] <AskMP_> Good morning everybody |_P
  674. # [14:43] <Armen138> good morning!
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  763. # [16:06] <wabism> Does HTML5 support dynamic data offline? lets say my application interacts with a databae alot but they loose internet
  764. # [16:07] <shwetank> depends on how you program it, i guess .... if you do it that it syncs every 'n' seconds, or whenever there is a change to the DB, then it would work more or less
  765. # [16:08] <shwetank> (if im getting your question correctly)
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  767. # [16:09] <wabism> so when its online it would download all the pages with the data
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  769. # [16:10] <wabism> and than offline, it will use what it previously downloaded
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  771. # [16:10] <shwetank> okay, if you're including pages and stuff, then you have to use application cache, and its a bit more cumbersome ....
  772. # [16:11] <shwetank> see, the files which need to be stored as part of appcache, they need to listed in a file called the manifest file ... and whenever you want a new file to be cached, you need to update the manifest file to mention the name of the new file in there
  773. # [16:13] <shwetank> you should first read up a bit on appcache ... I wrote an article here http://dev.opera.com/articles/view/offline-applications-html5-appcache/
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  779. # [16:18] <vikash> shwetank, hey
  780. # [16:18] <wabism> shwetank: is there a way to download the database?
  781. # [16:19] <shwetank> well, online you may have something like a mysql db or something ... and offline, the kind of storage solutions we currently have do not correspod *exactly* like that .... so you'll have to sync them but 'downloading' them will not make sense
  782. # [16:20] <shwetank> hey vikash
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  785. # [16:20] <vikash> shwetank, how are you? seeing you after a long time
  786. # [16:21] <shwetank> i keep hanging around here from time to time :)
  787. # [16:21] <vikash> I am back to Noida, home sweet home
  788. # [16:21] <vikash> :)
  789. # [16:21] <shwetank> awesome
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  791. # [16:22] <vikash> hey, I do have a question, I wrote a stick figure animation http://thimbletest.org/p/dy0 Now I want to make the stick figure as single object. so that I can refer to it as one. So what is the way I should go ahead.
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  793. # [16:23] <shwetank> looking...
  794. # [16:23] <AskMP> put it into a containing DOM element
  795. # [16:24] <shwetank> what AskMP said ...
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  797. # [16:24] <vikash> how? I did put it in a <div> then what?
  798. # [16:24] <AskMP> then reference that div
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  800. # [16:25] <shwetank> what do you want to do with it? Do you want the user to hover over the stick figure and have all those animations perform themselves at once?
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  803. # [16:25] <vikash> No, next time I want the stickfigure, whereever I have a div
  804. # [16:25] <vikash> instead of separate body, head legs and hands
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  806. # [16:27] <shwetank> well, if you put it in a container div, then you can refer to that container div than that will encompass all those things within it ... now it depends what exactly you want to do with it
  807. # [16:27] <vikash> ok, I will try
  808. # [16:27] <vikash> one min
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  816. # [16:34] <vikash> so, I think I am taking this *wrong*. -> the BodyX now contains a div id="stickfigure" and later I am making a div with same id. I am not getting any stick figure then https://gist.github.com/2882204
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  820. # [16:35] <shwetank> ids need to be unique
  821. # [16:35] <vikash> as in?
  822. # [16:36] <vikash> how will both then have the stick figure?
  823. # [16:36] <vikash> if possible can you please edit the gists
  824. # [16:36] <shwetank> have a class ... classes can have same names, but IDs should not have same names, they should have unique names, anyways, let me take a look there
  825. # [16:37] <AskMP> If your going to use HTML for this, may I suggest using semantic tags? Header, Footer, sections, articles, etc…
  826. # [16:37] <AskMP> if would also be easy to then animate and select via the tags too
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  828. # [16:37] <shwetank> AskMP: actually in this case, it wont make sense ... as he is only using the tags for animation etc
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  831. # [16:38] <shwetank> vikash: You should probably be doing this in canvas or SVG .... using html tags for stuff like this is not really semantically nice ....
  832. # [16:38] <vikash> I understand
  833. # [16:38] <vikash> and you can understand the pain in getting it correct.
  834. # [16:39] <shwetank> now i'll have to open firefox because you only have ff prefixes in there :P
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  837. # [16:39] <vikash> But I am just trying this way. Once its done here, I plan to extend it as a comic project
  838. # [16:40] <AskMP> dividing up the areas of the body into their respective tags makes complete sense. Not that the practice is practical to begin with but it is a great example of semantic meaning: <header> contains the hair, eyes, facial content etc… there are <Sections> of the body and torso…
  839. # [16:40] <AskMP> every part of the body would be a different section
  840. # [16:40] <AskMP> articles or divs would be the parts that move
  841. # [16:41] <vikash> and all should be once class at the end.
  842. # [16:41] <AskMP> all should be contained within a single entity and given a class.
  843. # [16:41] <shwetank> <header> is not meant for containign bits of animation like this, its semantic purpose is different ... same with the other tags like <section> etc ... it has more to do with web pages and actual text etc than it being used for represting bodies like stick figures etc
  844. # [16:41] <AskMP> yes
  845. # [16:41] <AskMP> agreed.
  846. # [16:41] <AskMP> but from the looks of it, it is a fun project, not an actual game
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  848. # [16:42] <vikash> ya, its a fun project
  849. # [16:42] <vikash> and it taught me few things for sure
  850. # [16:42] <shwetank> for stuff like this, a <div> would indeed be the best thing as its just supposed to represent a division, which is what the various parts of the stick figure are
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  852. # [16:42] <vikash> Yay, I was corrent
  853. # [16:42] <vikash> *correct
  854. # [16:43] <AskMP> div is the most practical, to that I would agree… it just isn’t the most *fun*
  855. # [16:43] <shwetank> hehe
  856. # [16:44] <vikash> lol
  857. # [16:44] * vikash goes to uber-hidden mode with that comment
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  913. # [17:51] <Jon47> is it legit to close a div like this:
  914. # [17:51] <Jon47> <div/>
  915. # [17:51] <Jon47> I know it's crappy and probably suggests that it needs to be refactored, but is it valid html5?
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  917. # [17:56] <David_Bradbury> No.
  918. # [17:56] <David_Bradbury> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/syntax.html#end-tags
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  920. # [17:57] <David_Bradbury> And I can't think of any reason you'd want to close an element like that
  921. # [17:57] <Jon47> sounds like not http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3558119/are-self-closing-tags-valid-in-html5
  922. # [17:58] <Jon47> David_Bradbury: yeah I agree
  923. # [17:58] <Jon47> I foudn them in some code i'm working on and i'm wondering if it's worth it to fix them
  924. # [17:58] <Jon47> i think I will
  925. # [17:58] <David_Bradbury> Well, just know that they aren't closing tags, and a quick text replace should fix them
  926. # [18:01] <David_Bradbury> I should mention that If it is a void element (which a DIV isn't) it is a legal close though.
  927. # [18:01] <Jon47> how did you know that text replacement was my intended plan of action!?
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  929. # [18:02] <Jon47> one of the answers on that SO page helped me to understand it: <div/> is interpreted in html5 as <div> and not <div></div>
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  931. # [18:05] <Jon47> and then yeah, like you said, div is not a self-closing tag, so it'll probably screw up the DOM
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  939. # [18:14] <Jon47> sorry if that sounded snarky, i really do appreciate you taking the time to answer me
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  1001. # [19:15] <David_Bradbury> Jon47: You're fine :)
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  1067. # [20:41] <Guest53077> I'm using a video tag as background to my page html5 -> can i somehow force a browser to autoplay? In Mobile, at least on android tablets+ipads?
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  1076. # [20:51] <Jon47> Guest92680: try googling "html5 video tag autoplay"
  1077. # [20:51] <Jon47> or bing it!
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  1226. # [22:17] <randomusername> is the html5 spec complete, or is it possible to comment on it?
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  1228. # [22:21] <paul_irish> randomusername: whats your comment?
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  1252. # [22:40] <rodd> What do you guys think of storing data in meta tags or hidden inputs instead of data- attribute in specific elements?
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  1254. # [22:40] <rodd> I've been told you gain on peformance by not using data-
  1255. # [22:40] <paul_irish> what
  1256. # [22:40] <mokush> we curse it to hell
  1257. # [22:41] <rodd> and instead storing it all in meta tags
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  1259. # [22:41] <paul_irish> that is ridiculous.
  1260. # [22:41] <rodd> that's what I thoght
  1261. # [22:42] <rodd> thought
  1262. # [22:42] <mokush> probably on ios :P
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  1264. # [22:42] <paul_irish> rodd: use data attributes.
  1265. # [22:42] <rodd> that's what they're for anyway uh
  1266. # [22:43] <paul_irish> yup
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  1268. # [22:43] <tantek> meta tags are basically there only for legacy, and seo snakeoil
  1269. # [22:43] <paul_irish> if someone shows you a jsperf ask them to run a profiler first.
  1270. # [22:44] <tantek> except for charset of course ;)
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  1272. # [22:44] <Jayflux> rodd who told you that?
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  1275. # [22:44] <rodd> I don't have the log in this machine
  1276. # [22:44] <rodd> can lookup later if you'd like to know
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  1284. # [22:48] <paul_irish> some crazyface.
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  1290. # [22:50] <tantek> paul_irish - I heard a rumor that negative values in a time element speeds up pages. ;)
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  1292. # [22:52] <paul_irish> definitely true.
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  1296. # [22:54] <jetienne> :)
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  1328. # [23:18] <dilvie> Hi Paul. =)
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  1352. # [23:41] <Ish_> Hey guys I am trying to write a web scraper, one problem. The javascript changes the DOM and i need to get the DOM after the javascript has run. Any idea how to do this?
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  1354. # [23:43] <Validatorian> Ish_: I believe there's a web scraper module for node.js that would allow the JS to run prior to scraping, but I'm not positive.
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  1361. # [23:57] * Quits: theCole (~cole@cable-158-181-94-2.cust.telecolumbus.net) (Quit: theCole)
  1362. # [23:57] <ZombieFeynman> Ish_: Check out jsdom: https://github.com/tmpvar/jsdom
  1363. # [23:58] * Quits: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  1364. # [23:59] * Joins: Bass10 (Bass10@c-76-113-194-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
  1365. # Session Close: Thu Jun 07 00:00:00 2012

The end :)