/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-07-01 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 01 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  38. # [01:06] <llrcombs_> Does anyone know if it's possible to apply a full 3x3 transformation matrix to a Canvas, rather than an [a,b,c,d,e,f,0,0,1]?
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  195. # [08:28] <grantg> Scarier than Amnesia - http://i.imgur.com/jb9KA.jpg
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  210. # [08:49] <gnu_d> Hi, when I try to put divs in a css3 box which is horizontally oriented, the divs are not being put in the box, why ?
  211. # [08:54] <gnu_d> how to find out in which element what element can it be embedded in HTML5 ?
  212. # [08:55] <tw2113> what's a css3 box?
  213. # [08:55] <tw2113> did you put overflow: hidden on the parent div?
  214. # [08:55] <tw2113> not following on that last bit
  215. # [08:58] <gnu_d> tw2113: this is a section of my html code: http://www.pasteall.org/33363/html4strict and this is a relevant css code: http://www.pasteall.org/33364/css
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  217. # [08:59] <gnu_d> tw2113: the display type box thingy.
  218. # [08:59] <tw2113> so like this? http://jsfiddle.net/WmbTh/
  219. # [09:00] <gnu_d> tw2113: you made any changes ?
  220. # [09:01] <tw2113> nope
  221. # [09:01] <tw2113> just confirming
  222. # [09:01] <gnu_d> yes
  223. # [09:02] <tw2113> and what part isn't working like expected?
  224. # [09:03] <tw2113> i see "dudean"
  225. # [09:03] <tw2113> and then " fg -|- fg " on a new line
  226. # [09:03] <tw2113> both over red
  227. # [09:03] <gnu_d> tw2113: no, it should be a header title, a little padding and a menu
  228. # [09:03] <gnu_d> tw2113: all in one line.
  229. # [09:03] <gnu_d> tw2113: the padding currently is commented.
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  232. # [09:06] <tw2113> not completely sure, i haven't played with flexbox a huge amount
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  235. # [09:08] <tw2113> if i recall right, some stuff with flexbox got changed, so i'm not sure this implementation is uptodate
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  237. # [09:09] <tw2113> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/box-orient
  238. # [09:09] <tw2113> "Warning: This is a property of the original CSS Flexible Box Layout Module standard which is being replaced by a new standard."
  239. # [09:10] <tw2113> check out https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/Flexbox for more information on the current drafted implementation
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  241. # [09:13] <tw2113> gnu_d
  242. # [09:13] <gnu_d> I think it's the size
  243. # [09:13] <tw2113> i think it's using properties that were abandoned for a new spec :P
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  248. # [09:15] <gnu_d> tw2113: nope, display:-moz-box;
  249. # [09:15] <gnu_d> display:-webkit-box; I missed those
  250. # [09:16] <tw2113> are you reading that mdn link?
  251. # [09:16] <tw2113> you're trying to use the OLD spec stuff
  252. # [09:17] <gnu_d> tw2113: ah, sorry
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  255. # [09:18] <tw2113> no worries
  256. # [09:18] <gnu_d> tw2113: so Flexbox is the new standard ?
  257. # [09:18] <tw2113> yup
  258. # [09:19] <tw2113> that's what it looks like to me at least
  259. # [09:19] <tw2113> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-flexbox/
  260. # [09:19] <gnu_d> I just looked the draft
  261. # [09:20] <tw2113> i can't completely wrap my head around it still
  262. # [09:20] <tw2113> something i need to invest time with
  263. # [09:23] <gnu_d> tw2113: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/Using_CSS_flexible_boxes
  264. # [09:24] <tw2113> i know one of the people who put some time into that page :D just checked its revision history
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  266. # [09:27] <gnu_d> tw2113: says flex implementation browser support = None :D
  267. # [09:27] <gnu_d> at the bottom
  268. # [09:27] <tw2113> just because no one has updated it
  269. # [09:27] <tw2113> it's a wiki
  270. # [09:27] <gnu_d> I'm really confused, the box implementation says 3 browsers support.
  271. # [09:27] <gnu_d> ah
  272. # [09:28] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/#feat=flexbox
  273. # [09:29] <tw2113> no one is not prefixed at this point
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  296. # [10:28] <rmccue> Hi. Just wondering, what are the rules on when > should be encoded as &gt;? As far as I can tell, the answer is almost never, but I can't find anything solid on that
  297. # [10:28] <tw2113> yo rmccue
  298. # [10:29] <rmccue> Oh hi tw2113
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  300. # [10:30] <tw2113> turn them to entities when you want them to not actually risk being run as markup or php
  301. # [10:30] <tw2113> or $codinglang
  302. # [10:31] <rmccue> tw2113: From a technical standpoint, > doesn't appear to have any special meaning unless you're in certain parsing contexts, so I'm trying to work out which contexts specifically
  303. # [10:32] <rmccue> (PHP's DOMDocument, e.g., changes "<p>A > B</p>" into "<p>A &gt; B</p>" although that doesn't appear to be needed
  304. # [10:32] <rmccue> )
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  379. # [14:20] <gnu_d> Hi, what does the aside section do with the page, does it manage a layout ?
  380. # [14:20] <gnu_d> I mean, will the aside section will put the content on right side ?
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  383. # [14:29] <ajf> I made a website about WebSocket, any suggestions/feedback? http://websocket.us/
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  387. # [14:38] <gnu_d> what should I do with the sections, explain me that, please ?
  388. # [14:38] <ajf> ?
  389. # [14:39] <gnu_d> are they just divs with names or they supposed make a layout automatically ?
  390. # [14:39] <gnu_d> if so, they don't :(
  391. # [14:41] <gnu_d> let me rephrase my question: does the section do something or do I need to style them ?
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  401. # [15:14] <ajf> gnu_d: html5 semantic elements are just "semantic"
  402. # [15:14] <ajf> what this means is
  403. # [15:15] <ajf> <header> is basically just a <div>, but with a clearer name
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  405. # [15:15] <ajf> so the source code is a bit clearer about what bits of the page do what
  406. # [15:15] <ajf> but a <section> is no different than a <div>, style-wise, afaik
  407. # [15:17] <gnu_d> ajf: so, there isn't any magic :(.
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  412. # [15:24] <Velmont> gnu_d, ajf: There is some magic in the html5 outline algorithm.
  413. # [15:24] <Velmont> gnu_d: It uses <section> there so that you can use only <h1> for all your headers.
  414. # [15:25] <ajf> outline algorithm?!
  415. # [15:25] <gnu_d> Velmont: I know that, but I was hoping it will do the layout for me.
  416. # [15:25] <Velmont> <h1>My cool article</h1> <section> <h1>Introduction</h1> <p>Bla bla bla. </section>
  417. # [15:26] <Velmont> gnu_d: Yeah, browsers could've maybe added something more to the web browser stylesheets to handle that case.
  418. # [15:26] <ajf> ooh
  419. # [15:26] <Velmont> But it's not been done, and so it won't work doing it now.
  420. # [15:26] <ajf> that's legal?
  421. # [15:26] <ajf> cool
  422. # [15:27] <ajf> so this means you can just include an html fragment using <h1> as its title in a <section>?
  423. # [15:27] <Velmont> ajf: Yeah, it really makes embedding some HTML into other html's very easy
  424. # [15:27] <ajf> awesome :D
  425. # [15:27] <ajf> so does this affect font size etc?
  426. # [15:28] <Velmont> ajf: That's what I think gnu_d asked about, -- you do it in CSS. -- The CSS isn't supplied in the default user agent stylesheet for it.
  427. # [15:28] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5082B77E.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  428. # [15:28] <gnu_d> Velmont: I thought by using the aside element, it will render it on the side.
  429. # [15:28] <ajf> ahh
  430. # [15:28] <Velmont> ajf: There was some talk about inventing some CSS to make it easier. Because right now the code for doing that is kinda verbose.
  431. # [15:28] <ajf> gnu_d: no
  432. # [15:28] <gnu_d> ajf: I get it know
  433. # [15:28] <gnu_d> now*
  434. # [15:29] <ajf> it's for "asides", but how they are styled is up to you
  435. # [15:29] <ajf> good :)
  436. # [15:29] <Velmont> gnu_d: Yeah, -- didn't want to add more default user agent styles.
  437. # [15:29] <Velmont> People mostly hate/override it anyway...
  438. # [15:29] <ajf> yeah
  439. # [15:29] <ajf> here's the most common lines of CSS, I think:
  440. # [15:30] <ajf> html, body { padding: 0px; margin: 0px; } a img { border: none; /* damn you internet explorer */ }
  441. # [15:30] <ajf> :P
  442. # [15:33] <gnu_d> if everybody hates ie, why won't we all agree to drop it from support ?
  443. # [15:33] <gnu_d> :)
  444. # [15:34] <ajf> because business
  445. # [15:34] <ajf> fun fact: IE use peaks mondays to fridays
  446. # [15:34] <ajf> and drops at weekends
  447. # [15:35] <ajf> or in other words a lot of people only use IE because of businesses
  448. # [15:35] <ajf> I really wish businesses would realise that you can't support older versions of browsers, and should instead use newer versions :<
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  450. # [15:43] <gnu_d> ajf: and they should also know the fact that activex is a security hole :D.
  451. # [15:43] <ajf> yeah
  452. # [15:43] <ajf> it's ridiculous
  453. # [15:44] <ajf> you know what's really insane? (and I'm gonna ask my school about this as a school council representative just for shits n giggles...)
  454. # [15:44] <ajf> using IE7 still on XP
  455. # [15:44] <ajf> IE8 is fine. It's the best version of IE on XP. It even has compatibility mode.
  456. # [15:44] <ajf> WHY NOT USE IT?! :O shock horror it might be a good idea
  457. # [15:45] <ajf> especially since every page on YouTube says "ending support for IE7 soon"!
  458. # [15:45] <gnu_d> ajf: they will completely move on HTML5 ?
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  460. # [15:46] <ajf> not yet
  461. # [15:46] <ajf> they're slowly phasing out old IE support
  462. # [15:46] <ajf> IE6 already dropped
  463. # [15:46] <ajf> they should be bold and completely drop video viewing support on IE6 though
  464. # [15:46] <ajf> or show a huge popup over the page that you have to close before viewing the video
  465. # [15:47] <ajf> and heck, that also maddens me. Still using IE6 on XP in a corporate environment, for goodness sake, WHY NOT UPGRADE?
  466. # [15:51] <gnu_d> ajf: because the CEO's are cheap :D
  467. # [15:51] <ajf> hahaha
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  470. # [15:59] <circlicious> window.URL.createObjectURL on a blob creates a url with blob scehme. where is the data stored ? on the user's computer somwehre ? like where the file api stores ?
  471. # [16:06] <gnu_d> ajf: one more thing, in a section, what's the use of the role attribute ?
  472. # [16:06] <ajf> oh, er, I'm unfamiliar with it
  473. # [16:06] <ajf> let me check
  474. # [16:07] <ajf> the role tells browsers and "assitive technology" (screen readers etc) what the purpose of that section is
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  476. # [16:12] <circlicious> var worker = new Worker('task.js'); - where does the task.js need to be present ?
  477. # [16:12] <ajf> it's a relative path
  478. # [16:12] <ajf> so like where an img src file would be, or script tag src would be
  479. # [16:12] <circlicious> so it downloads the file from the server only ?
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  481. # [16:13] <circlicious> or it needs to be present somewhere int eh filesystem (exposed by file api)
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  483. # [16:13] <circlicious> client-side or server-side it is?
  484. # [16:15] <ajf> uh
  485. # [16:16] <ajf> is this server-side code (node.js) or client-side JavaScript in the browser?
  486. # [16:21] <gnu_d> how do I make the page to allocate all of the full width space available ?
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  488. # [16:21] <ajf> gnu_d: ?
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  490. # [16:22] <gnu_d> like having a header above, I need the header to stretch till the right edge of the page.
  491. # [16:23] <gnu_d> is there any HTML5 trick for that ?
  492. # [16:23] <circlicious> ajf: client side JS
  493. # [16:23] <circlicious> html5 worker api
  494. # [16:24] <ajf> client-side, yeah, it's just a relative path to a js file
  495. # [16:24] <circlicious> ok, so just like any other img/link/js tags
  496. # [16:24] <ajf> yeah, basically
  497. # [16:24] <ajf> although I'm not sure if they allow loading from external URLs
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  501. # [16:35] <circlicious> i dont get the idea behind the way web workers is coded
  502. # [16:36] <circlicious> you have to addEventListener on worker object and on self too ?
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  504. # [16:36] <circlicious> reading this, http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/workers/basics/
  505. # [16:37] <ajf> er
  506. # [16:37] <ajf> no I think you misunderstand
  507. # [16:37] <ajf> in your main code you listen for events from the worker
  508. # [16:37] <ajf> and in the worker you listen for events from the main code
  509. # [16:38] <ajf> this way you can pass messages back and forth, you see?
  510. # [16:38] <circlicious> ah
  511. # [16:38] <circlicious> :)
  512. # [16:38] <ajf> :)
  513. # [16:39] <circlicious> i guess the threads trhey are talking about are just some browser threads and not real system threads yeh ?
  514. # [16:39] <ajf> workers run in a different thread... so probably a real system thread created by the browser
  515. # [16:40] <ajf> but because of that they can only share data and send messages back and forth
  516. # [16:40] <ajf> because otherwise you have problems with two threads changing things at the same time
  517. # [16:41] <circlicious> i see
  518. # [16:45] <ajf> :)
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  528. # [17:07] <circlicious> it's something like websql has been deprecated and indexeddb is the future yeh ?
  529. # [17:07] <ajf> yeah
  530. # [17:07] <ajf> which is a shame imo, I like sqlite
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  532. # [17:08] <circlicious> i like sqlite too!
  533. # [17:12] <Velmont> At least we won't remove it from Opera.
  534. # [17:12] <Velmont> (I use it for a museum installation - so removing it would make me needing to update the program there :P)
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  537. # [17:13] <Velmont> Ohwell, guess I won't upgrade Opera either actually, so it wouldn't really be a problem. But yea.
  538. # [17:14] <Velmont> (yes, the machine is disconnected from the intarwebs)
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  543. # [17:23] <circlicious> who use opera anyway
  544. # [17:24] <circlicious> "we wont remove it from opera" ? you wo0rk for opera, sorry no offence meant in my last sentence but ..
  545. # [17:26] <Velmont> circlicious: Yes, I work on Opera.
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  547. # [17:26] <Velmont> circlicious: About 200 million people use it. :-)
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  549. # [17:28] <circlicious> :O
  550. # [17:28] <circlicious> lol
  551. # [17:29] <circlicious> i didnt really know that.. are you serious?
  552. # [17:29] <ajf> more like 20
  553. # [17:29] <circlicious> ok maybe due to opera mini (mobile?)
  554. # [17:29] <ajf> opera mini isn't really opera though
  555. # [17:29] <ajf> it's a proxy browser
  556. # [17:29] <circlicious> i cant believe 200millipoon people using opera on the computer
  557. # [17:29] <Velmont> ajf: Really depends on how you look at it.
  558. # [17:29] <Velmont> circlicious: Mini has 169 million.
  559. # [17:29] <Velmont> circlicious: So basically most of the users are on mini :-)
  560. # [17:30] <Velmont> But mini is the rendering engine, just running on our servers instead of on the client itself. So, it's the same code and everything.
  561. # [17:30] <ajf> same engine?
  562. # [17:30] <ajf> hmm
  563. # [17:30] <Velmont> ajf: Yup.
  564. # [17:30] <circlicious> well i dont know what to say but .. i like webkit , chrome, safari
  565. # [17:31] <ajf> Velmont: how much state is preserved server-side? I notice javascript prompts use a custom URL scheme...
  566. # [17:31] <circlicious> atleast on computer, chrome rules for me
  567. # [17:34] <Velmont> ajf: I work on the engine, javascript API's and specs (like IndexedDB) - so I have not looked much into Mini. -- But it runs javascript and waits for onload, -- if it hasn't hit in some number of seconds, it sends what it has got so far.
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  569. # [17:34] <Velmont> As for what it actually keeps of state, -- I don't know, sorry :-)
  570. # [17:34] <circlicious> you work on the opera engine?
  571. # [17:34] <circlicious> you must be really smart then hehe
  572. # [17:34] <circlicious> browser engines must be hard work
  573. # [17:34] <ajf> Velmont: ah. it just interests me how much state is kept, particularly for URL nav
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  575. # [17:36] <ajf> circlicious: yeah, try reading the HTML5 spec D:
  576. # [17:39] <Velmont> circlicious: Well, my team is really good. My job is not development. I'm supposed to know the specs by heart, and fix them and write tests for them etc etc. So for C++ code, I only do easy bug fixes on the core. :]
  577. # [17:41] <ajf> ah
  578. # [17:41] <ajf> oh god, knowing specs by heart?
  579. # [17:41] <ajf> I feel sorry for you
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  581. # [17:44] <ajf> could be worse
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  583. # [17:44] <ajf> could have to know the PHP spec by heart
  584. # [17:44] <ajf> which is impossible
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  588. # [17:49] <circlicious> hahahahaha
  589. # [17:50] <circlicious> ok well, i need to take some rest :) have a great day ahead mates
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  592. # [17:53] <Velmont> ajf: lol, some of us like it :]
  593. # [17:54] <Velmont> And it's not all the specs :P And not really by heart, but at least very well.
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  595. # [17:57] <ajf> you may have missed the joke
  596. # [17:57] <ajf> PHP, unlike other languages, doesn't have any spec
  597. # [17:57] <ajf> the only thing close is the source code. the docs aren't even accurate
  598. # [17:58] <Velmont> ajf: I was focusing on the bit above that :P But yea, didn't think too hard about the PHP.
  599. # [17:58] <ajf> oh, heh
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  601. # [17:59] <ajf> but yeah, I understand what you meant, you need to "know" the specs for the most part to help implementors, yes?
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  643. # [19:15] <fornext> can someone tell me how cookies are set without javascript? badly I founf nothing about that, every tutorial works with js.
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  645. # [19:16] <ImBcmDth> fornext: cookies either come from the server or are set by JS
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  647. # [19:19] <fornext> ImBcmDth, yes, I found the php-command setcookie and the $_COOKIE var. But I try to find out how it is working. I guess it is tranfered with the header - but I am lookinf for a document explaining it.
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  650. # [19:20] <dmachi1> they get set in the response header
  651. # [19:21] <fornext> dmachi1, thx that points me to the right direction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HTTP_header_fields
  652. # [19:21] <dmachi1> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie#Setting_a_cookie
  653. # [19:22] <fornext> oh, much more in the eng-wiki than in the german.
  654. # [19:22] <fornext> thx, that is exatly what I need.
  655. # [19:22] <dmachi1> np
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  721. # [21:21] <grantg> hey
  722. # [21:22] <grantg> I have a webgl game idea
  723. # [21:22] <ajf> cool
  724. # [21:22] <ajf> what is it? :)
  725. # [21:22] <grantg> I'm prototyping up a 3D racing game that's MMO and also has a single player adventure to go along with it. You need to beat tracks in order to unlock new tracks, and you have to race against others or the computer depending on the track. It would be free, but with unlockable DLC tracks at the end for $?
  726. # [21:22] <grantg> Of course it'd need good art and music. There would be "zones" specific to certain themes, kind of like how diddy kong racing was done.
  727. # [21:22] <grantg> I'd even emphasize keeping the resources down by re-using as many textures as possible and programmicably generating the audio in real time.
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  729. # [21:23] <grantg> The big thing would be racing against others on the net, then combining it with a single player mission to make it feel more than just a simple game.
  730. # [21:23] <ajf> hmm
  731. # [21:23] <grantg> It'd be free with paid DLC
  732. # [21:23] <ajf> it doesn't sound particularly original, but nice idea
  733. # [21:23] <ajf> WebSocket and THREE.js?
  734. # [21:23] <grantg> You would race against others online to advance in the story line
  735. # [21:23] <grantg> and go against the computer at times
  736. # [21:24] <grantg> with zoned areas specific to themes
  737. # [21:24] <grantg> christmas/halloween/tropical/steampunk
  738. # [21:24] <ajf> ok
  739. # [21:24] <grantg> More could always be added later to the game
  740. # [21:24] <ajf> if you don't know much about websocket check out http://websocket.us/
  741. # [21:24] <grantg> I do know about it
  742. # [21:24] <ajf> ah good
  743. # [21:25] <ajf> that's my site about it. it has links to a bunch of ws libraries
  744. # [21:25] <grantg> I'd try to make it so laggy connection updating with xmlhttprequest is still possible
  745. # [21:25] <ajf> grantg: don't bother
  746. # [21:25] <ajf> it's too impractical for real-time gaming
  747. # [21:25] <grantg> you need some sort of lag assist
  748. # [21:25] <ajf> it's *almost* okay for chat
  749. # [21:25] <grantg> even with sockets
  750. # [21:25] <ajf> but that's with a lot of tweaking by people like Facebook
  751. # [21:26] <grantg> but yeah
  752. # [21:26] <ajf> grantg: yes, but sockets have low overhead and consistent lag, with a sustained connection
  753. # [21:26] <grantg> websockets come first
  754. # [21:26] <grantg> of course
  755. # [21:26] <ajf> just use flash websocket or something
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  757. # [21:26] <ajf> that could work, but I doubt xmlhttprequest is realisitc
  758. # [21:26] <grantg> I'd probably make each themed zone work on a different server
  759. # [21:26] <grantg> for load balance
  760. # [21:26] <grantg> things like assets be on CDNs
  761. # [21:27] <grantg> audio would be real time synth'd
  762. # [21:27] <grantg> for low data size
  763. # [21:27] <grantg> I'd need to alloc wave tables first though
  764. # [21:27] <grantg> then play them back in different custom mixer combos
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  766. # [21:28] <grantg> I was already working on my own 3d code, ugh
  767. # [21:28] <ajf> lol
  768. # [21:28] <ajf> you can cache music
  769. # [21:28] <grantg> I know
  770. # [21:28] <grantg> But the initial download
  771. # [21:28] <grantg> plus
  772. # [21:28] <grantg> generating it yourself you know it'll be the right format
  773. # [21:28] <grantg> and it'll play
  774. # [21:29] <ajf> eh
  775. # [21:29] <grantg> I have a lib
  776. # [21:29] <ajf> you can bring music files down to about 4mb
  777. # [21:29] <grantg> XAudioJS
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  780. # [21:29] <grantg> for real time output
  781. # [21:29] <grantg> I used it for my js gbc emulator
  782. # [21:29] <grantg> I'm gonna use it for this
  783. # [21:29] <grantg> the audio is gonna be dynamically generated
  784. # [21:29] <grantg> So I have full control over mixing and timing
  785. # [21:30] <grantg> and programmicably done = low resource size
  786. # [21:30] <grantg> like any drum sounds would be re-used
  787. # [21:30] <grantg> and played back at different freqs
  788. # [21:30] <grantg> same things with flutes
  789. # [21:31] <grantg> So one wave table could be used to generate different effects
  790. # [21:31] <grantg> not just one sound instance for one piece of one effect
  791. # [21:31] <grantg> might even include chiptunes for one "zone"
  792. # [21:31] <grantg> It's a big project
  793. # [21:32] <grantg> Probably gonna need a lot of people for things like art and music direction
  794. # [21:32] <grantg> and track design
  795. # [21:32] <grantg> The idea is to hook people with it being free
  796. # [21:32] <ajf> ok
  797. # [21:32] <ajf> um
  798. # [21:32] <grantg> then special add-ons tracks would be $
  799. # [21:32] <ajf> write this all down somewhere
  800. # [21:32] <ajf> put it online
  801. # [21:32] <grantg> already did
  802. # [21:33] <ajf> and don't spam the chat
  803. # [21:33] <grantg> sorry :P
  804. # [21:33] <ajf> nobody except me is reading it, and I'm only skimming it. BUT
  805. # [21:33] <grantg> Chat seems dead anyhow. lol
  806. # [21:33] <ajf> I appreciate your enthusiasm :P
  807. # [21:33] <grantg> SUDDENLY SPAM
  808. # [21:33] <ajf> Just don't get ahead of yourself :)
  809. # [21:33] <grantg> ok
  810. # [21:33] <grantg> Well I'm prototyping it already
  811. # [21:33] <grantg> Already have another person who wants to contrib
  812. # [21:34] <grantg> & code
  813. # [21:34] <ajf> cool
  814. # [21:34] <ajf> open source or proprietary?
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  816. # [21:36] <grantg> initially proprietary
  817. # [21:36] <grantg> might open source some assets
  818. # [21:36] <ajf> :/
  819. # [21:36] <grantg> of course someone could un-minify js
  820. # [21:36] <ajf> I like the reverse
  821. # [21:36] <ajf> open-source your engine, keep your assets protected
  822. # [21:36] <grantg> heh
  823. # [21:37] <ajf> id software does that
  824. # [21:37] <grantg> I meant code assets
  825. # [21:37] <grantg> lol
  826. # [21:37] <ajf> code assets?
  827. # [21:37] <grantg> Some js to ajax in for each "zone"
  828. # [21:37] <grantg> or track
  829. # [21:37] <ajf> ah
  830. # [21:37] <grantg> and the engine
  831. # [21:40] <grantg> but yeah
  832. # [21:40] <grantg> I wouldn't mind if people experimented with the textures and models too
  833. # [21:40] <grantg> as long as they try to repackage the game
  834. # [21:41] <grantg> and the DLC tracks would be off-limits
  835. # [21:41] <grantg> encoded
  836. # [21:42] <grantg> *encryption
  837. # [21:42] <grantg> I'll try to make it low poly
  838. # [21:42] <grantg> so it can run on older hw
  839. # [21:42] <grantg> and slower webgl capable browser
  840. # [21:43] <ajf> hmm
  841. # [21:43] <ajf> here's a challenge for you
  842. # [21:43] <grantg> but with good scenery so people won't notice
  843. # [21:43] <ajf> make it work in IE without webgl with raw canvas
  844. # [21:43] <ajf> IE has a fast canvas implementation, or so MS claims
  845. # [21:43] <grantg> ugh
  846. # [21:43] <ajf> seriously
  847. # [21:43] <grantg> I want to work in an opengl context directly
  848. # [21:43] <ajf> it runs my thingie much smoother
  849. # [21:44] <ajf> much higher FPS
  850. # [21:44] <grantg> lol thingie
  851. # [21:44] <ajf> yes, haha :D
  852. # [21:44] <grantg> IE9 at the moment sucks with js perf
  853. # [21:44] <grantg> Haven't tested IE10
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  855. # [21:44] <grantg> IE9 will bottleneck on calcs in js
  856. # [21:44] <ajf> it's not as bad as IE8 at least
  857. # [21:44] <ajf> MS made a new JS engine
  858. # [21:44] <ajf> finally
  859. # [21:45] <grantg> still sucks
  860. # [21:45] <grantg> they keep shit on the heap
  861. # [21:45] <grantg> even locals
  862. # [21:45] <grantg> and fail to generate good spew
  863. # [21:46] <grantg> and they don't inline like V8
  864. # [21:46] <ajf> well
  865. # [21:46] <ajf> at least MS are trying
  866. # [21:46] <grantg> It's **MUCH** slower than V8
  867. # [21:46] <ajf> but as Crockford said, they made a crucial error
  868. # [21:46] <grantg> Firefox is way faster than IE9 too
  869. # [21:46] <grantg> js wise
  870. # [21:46] <ajf> IE9's JScript engine has no ECMAScript 5 strict mode(!!!)
  871. # [21:47] <grantg> Also lack of typed arrays
  872. # [21:47] <ajf> IE10 does, thank God, but it's a real, real shame that the JScript in IE9 lacks strict mode
  873. # [21:47] <ajf> nah
  874. # [21:47] <grantg> So it's a no-go if I want to keep some optimizations
  875. # [21:47] <ajf> I think strict mode is far more important
  876. # [21:47] <grantg> I'm using that mat4 lib, but I might make my own if I need to
  877. # [21:48] <grantg> If I want to optimize out some stuff
  878. # [21:48] <grantg> Problem is canvas2d abstracts too much out if you want to do 3d stuff
  879. # [21:49] <grantg> that's a blocker for IE support
  880. # [21:49] <ajf> well, it has matrix transforms, at least
  881. # [21:49] <ajf> could be worse.
  882. # [21:50] <grantg> the gfx itself
  883. # [21:50] <grantg> small things
  884. # [21:50] <grantg> also fucking shaders man
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  886. # [21:51] <grantg> SHADERS
  887. # [21:51] <ajf> pixelarrays
  888. # [21:51] <ajf> or uh
  889. # [21:51] <ajf> whatever they call it
  890. # [21:51] <ajf> ImageData
  891. # [21:54] <grantg> that's just framebuffer access
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  893. # [21:54] <grantg> you don't expect me to emulate shaders with js on the UI thread?
  894. # [21:55] <ajf> you have bloody web worke-
  895. # [21:55] <ajf> oh wait IE
  896. # [21:55] <grantg> yeah
  897. # [21:55] <grantg> IE
  898. # [21:55] <grantg> that's the problem. :P
  899. # [21:55] <ajf> pre-processed effects?
  900. # [21:55] <grantg> ugh
  901. # [21:55] <ajf> could be worse, could be stuck with IE6... ;)
  902. # [21:55] <ajf> I mean, seriously
  903. # [21:55] <ajf> so many businesses
  904. # [21:55] <ajf> are
  905. # [21:55] <grantg> could be worse: netscape navigator
  906. # [21:55] <ajf> a DECADE behind in browser technology
  907. # [21:56] <ajf> and they
  908. # [21:56] <ajf> don't
  909. # [21:56] <ajf> even
  910. # [21:56] <ajf> fucking
  911. # [21:56] <ajf> care
  912. # [21:56] <grantg> yeah
  913. # [21:56] <ajf> They could at least leap forward 6 years and use IE7
  914. # [21:56] <ajf> it's only slightly better, but STILL
  915. # [21:56] <ajf> it's only 5 years old.
  916. # [21:56] <ajf> not as bad as >10
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  937. # [22:39] * abstractj|away is now known as abstractj
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  945. # [22:48] <defaultro> hey folks, which browser supports web sockets?
  946. # [22:49] <tw2113> http://caniuse.com/#feat=websockets
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  948. # [22:54] <defaultro> thanks
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  952. # [23:02] <defaultro> is my friend right that when websockets establishes connection, the connection is not in tcp layer(4) but application layer(7)?
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  982. # Session Close: Mon Jul 02 00:00:02 2012

The end :)