/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-07-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 10 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
  3. # [00:01] <bsilwal> well the sad part is phonegap should ideally support is out of the box, but its not doing it
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  17. # [00:12] <Famic> I'm trying to use html5boilerplate build script and I am getting "...\build\build.xml:476: Could not find file...\intermediate\js\scripts-concat.min.js to generate checksum for." Anyone would have any idea about that ?
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  20. # [00:13] <Famic> the "intermediate" directory is created and my js files are in there, but indeed no scripts-concat.min.js
  21. # [00:14] <Famic> also one thin glooks weird : the script says "[copy] Copying 2 files to...\intermediate\js" when there are 6 files being copied
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  65. # [01:12] <io__> Hi a couple of questions: 1- which one is your favorite framework to develop html5 (apart plain text editing) 2- how to get a wrapped plane (or endless and content-repeating plane? I thought about doing a texture transform, any othe roption?
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  91. # [01:42] <sunbeam> how can i best make a shadow around a frame (on all sides the same 2px shadow?
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  100. # [01:52] <DJVoracek>
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  128. # [02:38] <ansdev1> hello, is their a suitable html5 element or role for a welcome msg and logout link?
  129. # [02:38] <ansdev1> i'm torn between nav and header or just a div with neither
  130. # [02:39] <tw2113> a div would be just fine
  131. # [02:40] <tw2113> i can't visualize the other two fitting
  132. # [02:40] <ansdev1> i initially placed it in the header as it's at the top of the page
  133. # [02:40] <ansdev1> but for accessibility it seems fairly important nav to logout
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  137. # [02:53] * cgcardona wonders how much productivity is lost by devs fretting over new semantic tags
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  140. # [03:07] <ansdev1> lol cgcardona
  141. # [03:07] <ansdev1> just getting the basics sorted
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  145. # [03:19] <tw2113> more than should be cgcardona
  146. # [03:19] <tw2113> what gets me is people still encouraging tables for layouts, in 2012
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  233. # [06:32] * grantg hides from people lurking on github
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  236. # [06:44] <grantg> http://i.imgur.com/CDzbI.png
  237. # [06:45] <grantg> That's what it felt like looking at demo models of laptops in a computer store earlier
  238. # [06:45] <grantg> IE EVERYWHERE
  239. # [06:45] <Workoh> LOL
  240. # [06:45] <Workoh> (yes, I laughed aloud for once)
  241. # [06:46] <Workoh> Time for a meme
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  243. # [06:46] <grantg> Open to either: The IE test drive suit, Cut The Rope, or the only browser on the bar.
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  246. # [06:47] <Workoh> .... Night-terrors
  247. # [06:48] <grantg> For all I'm concerned, IE9 actually hangs and forever stutters on audio when exiting a page with my audio lib
  248. # [06:48] <grantg> and you have to ctrl+alt+delete iexplore.exe to stop the hanging audio eating 50% of a core
  249. # [06:49] <grantg> I noticed that when testing JS GBC on IE9
  250. # [06:49] <grantg> IE9 never closes its audio process
  251. # [06:49] <grantg> and keeps it alive after you exit IE
  252. # [06:49] <grantg> lol
  253. # [06:49] <Workoh> link? I played around with the moz audio API for a week or so
  254. # [06:49] * Quits: devilsbackyard (~luzon19@117.203.15.73) (Quit: Leaving)
  255. # [06:49] <grantg> http://gamecenter.grantgalitz.org/
  256. # [06:50] * Joins: devilsbackyard (~luzon19@117.203.15.73)
  257. # [06:50] <Workoh> DId you write that?
  258. # [06:50] <grantg> yeah
  259. # [06:50] <Workoh> Compile* whatever
  260. # [06:51] <grantg> It's all native to js
  261. # [06:51] <Workoh> ...wow.
  262. # [06:51] <grantg> not compiled from anything
  263. # [06:51] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/IodineGBA/tree/master/js is my current project. :P
  264. # [06:51] <grantg> Just connected timing prediction for a speed boost
  265. # [06:51] <grantg> And IodineGBA is OOP based, unlike JS GBC
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  267. # [06:52] <grantg> different components in different files and objects
  268. # [06:52] <grantg> DMA was a bitch, but just finished it today
  269. # [06:53] <grantg> Now gonna work on some other things and hopefullyp push out more files
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  271. # [06:53] <grantg> sound was 60% copy+paste from js gbc
  272. # [06:53] <grantg> timing for the DMA based FIFO audio had to be done separately of course, and only recently had its logic hooked up right
  273. # [06:54] <grantg> IRQ class also complete :3
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  277. # [06:56] <grantg> might actually complete this before the end of August, possibly earlier
  278. # [06:56] <grantg> I have the time
  279. # [06:56] <grantg> I know a shitload of people have been pissed at me for not working on it for months
  280. # [06:56] <grantg> :P
  281. # [06:56] * Quits: jacobolus (~jacobolus@70-36-215-74.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
  282. # [06:56] <grantg> People want GBA in ur browser
  283. # [06:58] * Quits: tw2113 (~tw2113@fedora/tw2113) (Remote host closed the connection)
  284. # [06:58] <grantg> Also 4 hw timers completed as well https://github.com/grantgalitz/IodineGBA/blob/master/js/GameBoyAdvanceTimerCore.js
  285. # [06:58] <grantg> that's already hooked up too
  286. # [06:58] <grantg> expect more. :)
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  288. # [06:59] <grantg> also no jit
  289. # [06:59] <grantg> that idea was thrown out
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  291. # [06:59] <grantg> slows us down actually, if we want to keep accuracy
  292. # [06:59] * Quits: Iarfen (~quassel@190-21-147-50.baf.movistar.cl) (Remote host closed the connection)
  293. # [06:59] <grantg> Expect better than VBA accuracy
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  295. # [07:01] <Workoh> I'm curious as to legal implications? Been a while since I played with ROMS
  296. # [07:01] * grantg hides
  297. # [07:01] <grantg> but anyhow, no roms will be on github
  298. # [07:01] <grantg> so things like BIOS ROM will load in separately
  299. # [07:01] <grantg> as well as the game roms themselves
  300. # [07:01] <Workoh> I see.
  301. # [07:02] <grantg> I expect random sites to take the files and load them up with roms for a pre-made page
  302. # [07:02] <grantg> :P
  303. # [07:02] <grantg> load times will be longer
  304. # [07:03] <grantg> (bigger ROMs)
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  406. # [10:18] <moo-_-> caniuse.com does not know web intents (yet)
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  438. # [11:24] <Famic> I'm trying to use html5boilerplate build script and I am getting "...\build\build.xml:476: Could not find file...\intermediate\js\scripts-concat.min.js to generate checksum for." Anyone would have any idea about that ?
  439. # [11:24] <Famic> also one thin glooks weird : the script says "[copy] Copying 2 files to...\intermediate\js" when there are 6 files being copied
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  441. # [11:25] <Famic> the "intermediate" directory is created and my js files are in there, but indeed no scripts-concat.min.js
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  457. # [12:02] <gnu_d> Hi, how can I get the selected li element in an ul element ?
  458. # [12:03] <gnu_d> I'm trying to use the contenteditable attribute, so I need to get the current line, that is current li object.
  459. # [12:09] <asher^> why not bind to the li rather than the ul?
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  463. # [12:17] <PaulRevere> Sorry for the general html question, but i have a section of html & js that needs to be integrated into an existing system; no classnames/ids were prefixed in this html "module" and there are collisions with the existing system. What's the best way to integrate this piece of code? Iframe? or do i have to go ahead an prefix every class/id with a namespace? Does html5 offer anything to help in this case?
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  468. # [12:20] <asher^> PaulRevere nothing comes to mind, how big is this section of code? search/replace is possibly your best option
  469. # [12:22] <PaulRevere> asher^, not terribly large, but it's involved. It's graphical and interactive; lots of images, css sprites, animations, etc
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  509. # [14:06] <io__> hi which kind of framework are you using around here?
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  515. # [14:18] <moo-_-> io__: jquery, twitter bootstrap
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  565. # [16:00] <io__> hi I am looking for a way to draw an infinite plane with repeated content
  566. # [16:00] <io__> scrollable with the mouse drag and drop style
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  568. # [16:01] <io__> i came to the conclusion that I ll have to reuse a canvas as another canvas texture, then translate the texture inside the second canvas
  569. # [16:02] <io__> but I can t see how to translate the texture
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  585. # [16:12] <rking> So, I like what <fieldset>+<legend> do, but I want to use it for non-<form> stuff. How nonsemantic is it to throw a <fieldset> around text to get a border?
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  588. # [16:18] <xec> rking: you can make a border with the border property, and move a heading on top of it to get a similar effect. but to answer your question, my guess would be *rolls a dice*
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  590. # [16:18] <xec> yes, it scores a 5 on the non-semantic-o-meter
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  594. # [16:23] <rking> Hehe. Cool.
  595. # [16:23] <rking> xec: What's the range on the NSoM?
  596. # [16:24] <xec> 1-6 where 1 is "groovy" and 6 is "damn it's getting cold in hell"
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  598. # [16:25] <rking> OK. =D
  599. # [16:26] <rking> By "heading" you mean "<h_>", right?
  600. # [16:26] <xec> because, let's face it, semantically a fieldset is for a set of form fields :)
  601. # [16:26] <xec> yes, correct
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  603. # [16:26] <xec> although you can use <header> for headings that don't really match a "level"
  604. # [16:27] <rking> What's an example of that?
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  606. # [16:27] <rking> (Of headings that don't match a level)
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  608. # [16:28] <xec> usually comes up in stuff like dynamic content, or external pulled-in things when you don't know what the structure is going to be
  609. # [16:28] <rking> (Or, what is a level, in that sense?)
  610. # [16:28] <rking> Hrm, OK. Sounds good.
  611. # [16:28] <xec> or when it doesn't make sense to think of the html page as a document structure (webapps etc)
  612. # [16:28] <rking> xec: Thanks for your time, I'm trying to learn to do this right.
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  614. # [16:30] <xec> mind you, these are all just my personal opinions, what ever way you pick to do something, someone is going to complain about it :D
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  618. # [16:33] <rking> Well, if the topic is semantics/meanings, it surely helps to have more than only my own opinion. There is no one-party communication.
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  625. # [16:41] <rking> I wonder if there's a way to blacklist w3schools.com from Google results.
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  627. # [16:41] <asher^> i used to think that they were some official site
  628. # [16:41] <asher^> heh
  629. # [16:43] <rking> So annoying.
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  696. # [17:56] <sunbeam> a phone number on top of a page in the header
  697. # [17:56] <sunbeam> what tag should this be again?
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  707. # [18:09] <nomor> someone know how to see how many guys who are registred in a website are from my country without website access?
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  782. # [19:41] <David_Bradbury> Sorry Kim Jong-un, there is no easy way to do that unless the website lets you. Otherwise you'll need to write a crawler.
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  788. # [19:45] <sunbeam> Any advice on what tag a part of content (after the header) the area that contains the main page content, should be?
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  790. # [19:46] <asher^> article perhaps
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  793. # [19:47] <tw2113> that's what i'd do
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  798. # [19:48] <sunbeam> article for just normal content?
  799. # [19:48] <sunbeam> (including sliders, photoalbum etc) ?
  800. # [19:48] <asher^> yeah
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  802. # [19:48] <tw2113> i've always tried to stick to this rule of thumb
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  804. # [19:48] <tw2113> if it'd be the part that shows up in an RSS feed
  805. # [19:49] <tw2113> article is not the worst thing you could use
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  808. # [19:52] <David_Bradbury> I go with this: If you aren't sure, use a div and come back to it later
  809. # [19:52] <tw2113> valid method as well
  810. # [19:52] * abstractj|lunch is now known as abstractj
  811. # [19:52] <David_Bradbury> It is not worth the time wasted debating if you should use a section, or article, or aside, etc...
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  813. # [19:53] <tw2113> i think it's worth some debate.....not a lot though
  814. # [19:53] <tw2113> a lot being 30min or more
  815. # [19:54] <David_Bradbury> If a page that would take you 40 minutes to code suddenly takes an hour and a half because you're debating the semantics, I'd say it isn't worth it :p
  816. # [19:55] <Pomax> it is worth it if your users are disabled.
  817. # [19:55] <Pomax> if any of your users RELY on screenreaders etc, invest the time.
  818. # [19:55] <Pomax> if not, you can come back to it later (which translates to no one will ever come back to it)
  819. # [19:56] <sunbeam> tw2113: its not for a blog
  820. # [19:57] <sunbeam> David_Bradbury: thats what i thought
  821. # [19:57] <tw2113> who said it was?
  822. # [19:57] <tw2113> many things can go into an RSS feed
  823. # [19:57] <sunbeam> rss feed suggests updatable content
  824. # [19:57] <tw2113> static pages are set in stone?
  825. # [19:57] <David_Bradbury> Pomax: Please tell me specifically which screen readers currently use article, nav, aside, etc... So far
  826. # [19:58] <sunbeam> maybe not
  827. # [19:58] <tw2113> another way to think of it: the primary content container of the page
  828. # [19:58] <tw2113> which is how i treat it
  829. # [19:58] <Pomax> David_Bradbury, that's the IE6 way of thinking about the web
  830. # [19:59] <tw2113> the semantic stuff is kind of a future proofing of yuor site at this point
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  832. # [20:00] <David_Bradbury> Pomax: My point isn't that you don't do it, but that if it is slowing you down, finish coding, and then later read an article, refresh on when to use things, then come back and add it in
  833. # [20:00] <Pomax> accessibility is not about "what can they do now", but "when they implement X, does my site break or not".
  834. # [20:00] <Pomax> it doesn't slow you do. the total time spent is the same.
  835. # [20:00] <tw2113> Pomax there is some slowdown if you're debating what to use
  836. # [20:00] <tw2113> for an hour or two
  837. # [20:01] <David_Bradbury> You're slowing down by wasting time debating when you can just go find the answer.
  838. # [20:01] <Pomax> the main problem with add it later is that if you think of it as a "we'll do it later, it's not important enough", you'll still think that until there's nothing left to improve on the site.
  839. # [20:01] <Pomax> it's only wasted time if your audience doesn't require accessibility
  840. # [20:01] <Pomax> and site crawling based on semantic elements is irrelevant
  841. # [20:01] <David_Bradbury> Meh, I disagree. I make accessibility a large enough priority that I won't put it off
  842. # [20:02] <Pomax> which is entirely possible. just those are the considerations really.
  843. # [20:02] <David_Bradbury> I just know, at least for me personally, that if I spend too much time debating, I have a harder time getting things done and they drag on
  844. # [20:02] <David_Bradbury> Then I come back and make the tweaks I need to
  845. # [20:02] <Pomax> mm
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  952. # [22:20] <grantg> miketaylr: Any word on opera supporting the web audio api?
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  961. # [22:36] <Velmont> grantg: Reading w3c public-audio list, we've at least done a review of it and proposed some changes.
  962. # [22:36] <grantg> Velmont: Thanks
  963. # [22:36] <grantg> Having async audio is not always the best
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  966. # [22:37] <grantg> Sometimes on same thread audio is better
  967. # [22:37] <grantg> But yeah, promote async via workers rather than on-thread
  968. # [22:37] <grantg> but leave both as options
  969. # [22:37] <grantg> Basically make demos for the worker version
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  1038. # Session Close: Wed Jul 11 00:00:00 2012

The end :)