/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-07-31 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Jul 31 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:20] <moo-_-> garciawebdev: no
# [00:20] * Quits: yodasw16 (~dgillhesp@ql1fwhide.rockfin.com) (Quit: yodasw16)
# [00:20] <moo-_-> but this might help
# [00:20] * abstractj is now known as abstractj|away
# [00:21] <moo-_-> garciawebdev: https://twitter.com/moo9000/status/229871889626058752
# [00:21] <socialhapy> ★ Tweet from moo9000: requestb.in - a service to human friendly HTTP requests debugging using a middle man ★ http://bit.ly/Q6VV8N
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# [00:26] <garciawebdev> moo-_- thanks!
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# [00:36] <grantg> anything new?
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# [00:48] <moo-_-> grantg: whatwg and w3c split up?
# [00:48] <moo-_-> grantg: or what kind of news you are looking for? :)
# [00:48] <grantg> heh
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# [05:52] <grantg> every time I think JS's bitwise math is okay, it throws more monkey poo at me.
# [05:53] <grantg> If you try to modify the MSB and test it, you're gonna have a bad time.
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# [05:54] <grantg> throw a logical right shift instead of an arith right shift and you need to apply a & -1 to it to ensure you'll be able to test the sign
# [05:54] <grantg> otherwise you need to check for < 0 and > 0x7FFFFFFF
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# [05:55] <grantg> sigh unsigned 32 bit instead of signed 32 bit like every other js bit op
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# [06:18] <grantg> http://i.imgur.com/yE1XH.jpg
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# [09:51] <hoolter1> If a user selects a file in my file input, and then the file gets modififed, can i see the modified contents?
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# [10:34] <moo-_-> hoolter1: a good question. You mean you would re-read the file or get a modification event?
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# [10:50] <hoolter> i just mean wha'ts going on in this video? | www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY56fNmn2cE&feature=player_embedded
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# [10:54] <hoolter> ^ @ moo-_-:
# [10:56] <moo-_-> hoolter: sorry too busy to start watching video
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# [11:00] <hoolter> moo-_-: are you familiar with jsbin?
# [11:01] <moo-_-> hoolter: not as far as I know
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# [11:02] <jazzza> evening =)
# [11:04] <jazzza> I was wondering if anyone knows, I have the following output in FF console: Blob { size=17, constructor=function(), type="", more...}
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# [11:04] <jazzza> how do I actually get at the raw data inside the Blob object?
# [11:04] <jazzza> The docs dont seem to have any methods
# [11:04] <jazzza> ive been reading https://developer.mozilla.org/en/DOM/Blob/
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# [11:05] <jazzza> basically I just want to get the raw binary data out the blob, as string or bytearray or whatever..
# [11:06] <jazzza> seems odd the Blob object has no way to actually access the data?!
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# [11:12] <hoolter> moo-_-: basically it's a live html renderer, kind of like jsfiddle. what he did in the video was he had an html and a css file on his desktop. and he dragged them into their respective panes in jsbin which was open in his browser. then, he opens the same files in his editor,edits them, and saves them... then the new additions instantly appear on his rendered output pane in jsbin. it's kind of incredible.
# [11:12] <hoolter> moo-_-: how could this be achieved?
# [11:14] <moo-_-> hoolter: you mean in a local editor?
# [11:14] <moo-_-> I think the easiest way would be using a webdav provider and an editor supporting webdav
# [11:15] <hoolter> moo-_-: yes. in sublime text, to be specific.
# [11:16] <moo-_-> hoolter: http://urbangiraffe.com/2011/08/13/remote-editing-with-sublime-text-2/ ?
# [11:16] <moo-_-> http://wbond.net/sublime_packages/sftp ?
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# [11:17] <moo-_-> hoolter: also this question is not HTML5 specific so I suggest you ask at Sublime Text forum
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# [11:19] <hoolter> moo-_-: no, i'm pretty sure it is. i don't think it's either of those methods that are used.
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# [11:19] <hoolter> it was presented as a feature of jsbin + html5dnd, not sublime itself.
# [11:20] <hoolter> moo-_-: is it possible to read a file that your user DnD'd, then have the user open said file in, say, notepad, modify + save the file, and then for you to read the new changes without the user having to re-DnD the file again?
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# [11:25] <moo-_-> hoolter: I'd say FileReader API always reflects the file current content and file handle is effective during the session (when not leaving the page)
# [11:25] <moo-_-> otherwise it would not make sense
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# [11:53] <jazzza> ok if anyone is interested you can use the FileReader.readAsArrayBuffer(Blob) method to load a raw blob
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# [11:53] <jazzza> e.g. from a web socket or web request
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# [12:01] <hoolter> moo-_-: u sure about that? changes to the file are reflected in the obtained file reference?
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# [12:07] <moo-_-> hoolter: no, it's a guess
# [12:07] <moo-_-> hoolter: if you want to be sure you test it out yourself or read the spec
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# [12:13] <hoolter1> moo-_-: u still around?
# [12:13] <moo-_-> hoolter1: metaquestions are pointless in IRC :)
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# [12:14] <hoolter1> moo-_-: :)
# [12:14] <hoolter1> you made your last answer seem a little uncertain.
# [12:14] <hoolter1> do you know if that's the case for sure?
# [12:15] <moo-_-> hoolter1: you read it yourself if you want to be sure
# [12:15] <moo-_-> hoolter1: I am not doing your work for you, you know
# [12:15] <moo-_-> hoolter1: I am not the author of HTML5 spec
# [12:15] <hoolter1> moo-_-: that's cool i've been looking for 20 mins and i can't find where it's specified.
# [12:16] <moo-_-> hoolter1: ask on #whatwg
# [12:16] <moo-_-> spec writers are there
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# [12:18] <hoolter1> ok, cool. thanks moo-_-
# [12:21] <hoolter1> is the inline onchange attr deprecated?
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# [12:26] <moo-_-> hoolter1: I hope it is
# [12:27] <moo-_-> it is bad practice to write inline JS
# [12:27] <moo-_-> hoolter1: http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/11/05/javascript-how-to-avoid-the-bad-parts
# [12:28] <frankstallone> hoolter1: it may not be deprecated but it surely is the first time I have heard of that attr. I am with moo-_-, bad practice to write JS inline.
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# [14:36] <jetienne> any good reference on the timing implied in hiding a tab or not ? like when requestanimationframe is notified, what about the settimeout/setinterval etc....
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# [15:18] <moo-_-> jetienne: I know modern browsers throttle requestAnimationFrame and setInterval
# [15:19] <moo-_-> jetienne: but how... it varies from a version to a version
# [15:19] <jetienne> moo-_-: setinterval... so not settimeout ?
# [15:19] <moo-_-> jetienne: settimeout too
# [15:19] <jetienne> moo-_-: yeah i look for a ref about those. but cant find out
# [15:19] <moo-_-> jetienne: I saw a recent Firefox issue discussion about how to make it "faster"
# [15:19] <moo-_-> let me dig up
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# [15:20] <jetienne> moo-_-: nah thats ok. a firefox issue isnt a 'good ref'
# [15:20] <jetienne> this is more like onprogress work
# [15:21] <moo-_-> jetienne: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=715376
# [15:21] <jetienne> looking
# [15:22] <jetienne> "then sleep a second," this is the number i heard too
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# [16:18] <Pomax> data mapping is nicely taking shape... now to rewrite this in actual proper JS =P
# [16:18] <Pomax> http://pomax.nihongoresources.com/pages/ABinaryParserGenerator/OpenType/validate.html
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# [16:55] <ryez> since checkbox if unchecked is never posted, it's always troublesome to use a single box as a switch, thus I want to propose a new input with type='switch', so that it looks like a checkbox but will always be posted regardless its value is 'on' or 'off', any comment?
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# [17:20] <blue_> guys.. if i load an image into a canvas from a remote source
# [17:21] <blue_> is it possible for me to calculate the dimensions of it ?
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# [17:24] <blue_> nevermind !
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# [18:59] <Pomax> hm. anyone know how to view the downloads list on chrome for android?
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# [19:25] <jarek> Pomax: are you around?
# [19:26] <jarek> I was reading your article on Bezier curves
# [19:26] <Pomax> yo
# [19:26] <jarek> I'm wondering if you have any clue why quadratic beziers are so unpopular in authoring tools
# [19:27] <jarek> I couldn't find even a single app that would allow for editing quadratic beziers
# [19:27] <Pomax> highly depends on your authoring tools
# [19:27] <Pomax> basically quadratic curves are too simple.
# [19:27] <Pomax> both quadratic and cubic can't actually perfectly do circle arcs, but quadratic curves are MUCH worse at it
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# [19:28] <Pomax> so if you want a tradeoff between computational and good looking, you hit cubic almost by default
# [19:28] <jarek> I have implemented simple SVG editor that uses quadratic beziers and they feel a lot more intuitive
# [19:28] <Pomax> or you abandon "pure" bezier and go with rational bsplines instead.
# [19:28] <jarek> cubic beziers are good if you need to tweak the shape after tracing
# [19:29] <Pomax> cubic is still intuitive in that the lines depart/arrive at the end points in the direction of their control point
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# [19:29] <jarek> what about having more than two control points? Is there any software doing this?
# [19:29] <Pomax> quadratic is just not expressive enough. you neeed a lot of quadratic curves to do a simple arc segment that looks "correct"
# [19:29] <Pomax> yeah, there are applications that do higher degree bezier curves, but things get problematic
# [19:30] <jarek> Pomax: do you recall any names?
# [19:30] <Pomax> fourth or fifth order curves become very hard to "fix" when they look wrong
# [19:30] <Pomax> they're mostly used implicitly in 3d applications (think NURBS curves)
# [19:31] <jarek> NURBS = b-splines, right?
# [19:31] <shepazu> what do you guys think of my catmull-rom proposal?
# [19:32] <shepazu> http://schepers.cc/getting-to-the-point
# [19:33] <Pomax> catmull rom is great for interpolation, but it has the problem of needing two "bogus" points
# [19:34] <Pomax> to get that initial/last coordinate tangent right
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# [19:35] <Pomax> the nice thing about catmull-rom and bezier curves is that they're the same thing, really.
# [19:35] <jarek> shepazu: is there any demo that would allow for real-time editing?
# [19:36] <Pomax> just different ways of expressing the terms and weights for the interpolation function
# [19:36] <jarek> if catmull-rom behaves like spiros in Inkscape then I would rather prefer not to use it :P
# [19:36] <jarek> because spiros are completely unpredictable for the end user
# [19:37] <Pomax> http://processingjs.nihongoresources.com/code%20repository/?get=Catmull-Rom-to-Bezier
# [19:37] <Pomax> spiros are a beautiful mathematical construct.
# [19:37] <Pomax> and utterly useless except as struts =)
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# [19:37] <shepazu> nothing that lets you move the points around (I haven't bothered), but you can play with this http://schepers.cc/svg/path/dotty.svg
# [19:37] <Pomax> (i.e. something along which to draw your curves)
# [19:38] <Pomax> jarek, I can write you a catmull-rom curve editor in jsfiddle in a few minutes =)
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# [19:39] <jarek> thanks, I think http://schepers.cc/svg/path/dotty.svg is enough
# [19:39] <Pomax> I could have sworn I had an actual sketch implemented that showed the catmull-rom/bezier conversion of a curve... maybe I never put it online anywhere
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# [19:40] <shepazu> Pomax: I'd love to see that
# [19:40] <Pomax> anyway - the underlying concept is that you're working with curve interpolations. The more points you use for a single coordinate, the harder it gets to "tweak" it, but the closer you can get to "perfect" curves
# [19:41] <shepazu> Pomax: where's your article on Beziers?
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# [19:42] <jarek> shepazu: http://processingjs.nihongoresources.com/bezierinfo/
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# [19:43] <Pomax> shepazu: http://jsfiddle.net/Ds4E5/
# [19:43] <Pomax> click points, black curve is catmull-rom, red curve is bezier (cubic), conversion is precise.
# [19:44] <Pomax> note that you need at least four points for a catmull-rom curve, since the first and last point determing the tangent at the second and second last coordinate
# [19:45] <shepazu> Pomax: I got around that by inferring that the first and last point were doubled
# [19:45] <shepazu> for syntactic simplicity
# [19:45] <Pomax> yeah it's a trivial thing to "ignore"-patch
# [19:46] <Pomax> let me change this sketch so you can control the conversion tightness.
# [19:46] <Pomax> just to see what happens, since it's fun
# [19:46] <shepazu> Pomax: would you be interested in helping me with the math for the SVG spec?
# [19:47] <jarek> Pomax: may I use this code in my app? :)
# [19:47] <jarek> Pomax: I will give credit to you in about box
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# [19:47] <Pomax> http://jsfiddle.net/Ds4E5/1/
# [19:47] <Pomax> jarek: my code repository is a free for all
# [19:48] <Pomax> as is my bezier code
# [19:48] <Pomax> shepazu: quite possibly, shoot me a mail at pomax@nihongoresources.com?
# [19:48] <shepazu> cool
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# [19:49] <jarek> Pomax: thanks
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# [19:49] <Pomax> coordinate-specific curve tightness is even more fun, but this'll do for now ;)
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# [19:49] <Pomax> (press w to increase, s to decrease btw)
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# [19:51] <jarek> I guess this could be used for implementation for "Freehand path" tool
# [19:51] <Pomax> that's generally what you'd use through-point interpolation for
# [19:52] <Pomax> so catmull-rom is quite suited
# [19:52] <jarek> though the result would probably not be as good as with solutions that use tracing
# [19:52] <jarek> e.g. https://github.com/bootchk/freehandTool/blob/master/freehand.py
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# [19:52] <Pomax> depends on what you think is "good"
# [19:52] <Pomax> if I draw an outline after 10 cups of coffee, I don't want my CAD software to pick up on my horrendous jitter ;)
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# [20:02] <jarek> is it a good idea to allow user to combine cubic beziers, quadratic beziers and arcs in single path?
# [20:03] <jarek> technically this is possible with SVG, but I'm a bit afraid that this would be confusing
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# [20:05] <jarek> I would need something like segment-based editing mode (all tools I have seen are node-based)
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# [20:23] <Pomax> jarek: I'd say yes, but it depends on a little on what you want to then do with those shapes
# [20:23] <Pomax> bezier curves cannot do arc perfectly, so adding an actual arc = win.
# [20:24] <Pomax> (I have truetype/CFF font outlines for this. There is no arc)
# [20:24] <Pomax> *hate
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# [20:27] <jarek> FontForge! I forgot to check FontForge...
# [20:27] <jarek> it should have quadratic bezier tool
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# [20:40] <Pomax> for those interested, btw, processing.js 1.4.0 has just been released
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# [21:07] <faryshta> Is it possible to use HTML5 for audio and video streamming?
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# [21:09] <David_Bradbury> Google can answer that in a few seconds :)
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# [23:01] <Owner> im trying to add data to an audio element, but it keeps restarting from the beginning each time i add sound
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# [23:52] <Andre_designer> .
# [23:53] <Andre_designer> .
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# [23:53] <Owner> sweet
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# [23:53] <Owner> woot
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# [23:58] <jaybuffet> i am not sure if this is the right place.. but i have a file object from javascript (this.files on the type=input).. anyways.. i am trying to set the "name" to a different string than what was sent in.. is this possible? whenever i do newFile.name = "newname.jpg"; it always retains the original name
# [23:59] <jaybuffet> sorry.. type=file
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# Session Close: Wed Aug 01 00:00:03 2012

The end :)