/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-08-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 30 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  6. # [00:04] <grantg> https://my.barackobama.com/page/s/reddit
  7. # [00:04] <grantg> http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/z1c9z/i_am_barack_obama_president_of_the_united_states/
  8. # [00:04] <moo-_-> grantg: hey
  9. # [00:04] <moo-_-> is your gameboy emulator part of new Octane test suite?
  10. # [00:04] <grantg> hey moo-_-
  11. # [00:04] <grantg> yes
  12. # [00:05] <moo-_-> grantg: you're a rock star
  13. # [00:05] <grantg> eh
  14. # [00:05] <moo-_-> :)
  15. # [00:05] <moo-_-> good job :)
  16. # [00:05] <grantg> It's gunny
  17. # [00:05] <grantg> *funny
  18. # [00:05] <grantg> I reset its github repo to remove some shit
  19. # [00:06] <grantg> back to single digits of watchers :P
  20. # [00:06] <grantg> https://github.com/grantgalitz/GameBoy-Online
  21. # [00:06] <moo-_-> grantg: yeah was wondering that too :D
  22. # [00:06] <grantg> same url, just reset the shit out of the git state
  23. # [00:07] <grantg> git logs weren't necessary to keep anyhow
  24. # [00:07] <grantg> not gonna do a once over of old code
  25. # [00:07] <moo-_-> but need to go to sleep, 1 AM
  26. # [00:07] <moo-_-> see ya
  27. # [00:08] <grantg> nn
  28. # [00:08] <grantg> lol
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  43. # [00:21] <grantg> heh
  44. # [00:22] <grantg> The upvote number on Obama's AMA is so large, it's getting clipped
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  68. # [00:54] <jarek> wait, Obama is doing AMA on reddit?
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  71. # [00:55] <jarek> isn't this a fake?
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  84. # [01:13] <kurrent> amazingly, it's not fake
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  86. # [01:14] <kurrent> paul_irish: js mvc of choice right now?
  87. # [01:19] <jarek> I don't really get all the noise about MVC frameworks
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  89. # [01:19] <jarek> MVC is a buzzword
  90. # [01:19] <jarek> nobody really knows what it actually means
  91. # [01:20] <jarek> at least there is no agreement on the common meaning
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  93. # [01:26] <webben> jarek: Generally true for buzzwords (e.g. AJAX)
  94. # [01:26] <webben> jarek: Not hard to find the original papers defining MVC (or AJAX)
  95. # [01:27] <jarek> webben: but MVC is a concept that was defined in '80
  96. # [01:28] <webben> jarek: What do you mean "but"?
  97. # [01:28] <jarek> webben: defining view and controller in context of a web page is tricky
  98. # [01:29] <webben> How so?
  99. # [01:29] <jarek> actually, I completely fail to see the benefits of separating the view and the controller
  100. # [01:30] <jarek> are eventListeners part of the view or controller?
  101. # [01:31] <jarek> or when user enters text into div with contentEditable attribute, should this be handled by the view or controller?
  102. # [01:31] <jarek> the whole separation feels artifical
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  105. # [01:35] <webben> jarek: Depends what sort of events you are listening for.
  106. # [01:35] <webben> jarek: Controllers handle user input.
  107. # [01:36] <webben> jarek: Views just render models.
  108. # [01:36] <jarek> webben: then where do I put code that does not handle user input? :P
  109. # [01:36] <webben> jarek: Such as what?
  110. # [01:36] <jarek> webben: I thought that controller is the part where you put anything that does not fit into view and model
  111. # [01:36] <jarek> webben: e.g. let's say that I'm implementing color picker
  112. # [01:37] <jarek> webben: where should I place the code that converts RGB numbers to HEX string?
  113. # [01:37] <webben> jarek: Funnily enough "anything that does not fit into view and model" is not the definition of controller ;)
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  116. # [01:38] <webben> jarek: Depends on how the model is used.
  117. # [01:38] <webben> jarek: I'd suggest that if the only use of the HEX string is for the convenience of the user of the color picker, it would belong to the view.
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  119. # [01:39] <webben> jarek: On the other hand if you have color stored in your model somewhere, and you have (say) biz logic or something that sometimes uses hex and sometimes using rgb, you likely want that conversion code in your domain layer.
  120. # [01:40] <webben> jarek: I find the original papers are best.
  121. # [01:40] <webben> http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver/1979/mvc-1/1979-05-MVC.pdf and http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver/1979/mvc-2/1979-12-MVC.pdf
  122. # [01:41] <jarek> 1979?!
  123. # [01:41] <webben> Indeed.
  124. # [01:42] <jarek> I didn't know they even had "objects" in programming languages back then
  125. # [01:42] <jarek> not to mention views
  126. # [01:43] <jarek> "A view is attached to its model (or model part) and gets the data necessary for the presentation
  127. # [01:43] <jarek> from the model by asking questions."
  128. # [01:43] <jarek> view should talk directly with the model?
  129. # [01:43] <webben> SmallTalk was the crystaliser for OOP and MVC, it's a 70s thing.
  130. # [01:43] <webben> jarek: Sure.
  131. # [01:44] <jarek> uhm... I have to read this paper again...
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  133. # [01:44] <webben> jarek: Additional useful resources at: http://heim.ifi.uio.no/~trygver/themes/mvc/mvc-index.html
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  135. # [01:45] <webben> jarek: Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that MVC is the only or even a good way to code your application; I just disagree it's some sort of utterly wishy washy concept
  136. # [01:45] <webben> It's got a fairly plan set of definitions and has had them for > 30 years.
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  140. # [01:49] <webben> For webservices, I tend to structure applications in terms of resource, representation, method (REST, more or less).
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  142. # [01:56] <kurrent> mvc style will be around for awhile, then maybe...just maybe we'll go back to just using ol' fashioned JS objects
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  145. # [01:59] <jarek> to seems to be overhyped like jQuery few years ago
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  147. # [01:59] <jarek> s/to/it
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  149. # [02:04] <kurrent> it can be discomforting to see your code sometimes triple when porting it into mvc/mvvc/mvwtf
  150. # [02:04] <jarek> I can already imagine "How do you add two numbers with MVC" questions on stackoverflow :P
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  152. # [02:06] <jarek> no fucking way
  153. # [02:06] <jarek> http://padmanlabs.blogspot.com/2012/08/mvc-architecture-simple-java.html
  154. # [02:06] <kurrent> haha for reals?
  155. # [02:07] <jarek> it looks like serious article
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  157. # [02:07] <kurrent> it is. and it's in java, so nothing to be surprised about there
  158. # [02:07] <kurrent> if you love writing 5 times the code of other languages, java is for you
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  162. # [02:11] <jarek> is MVC the only patterns used for implementing widget toolkits?
  163. # [02:11] <jarek> Cocoa uses it extensively
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  165. # [02:11] <jarek> there must be some better alternative
  166. # [02:11] <webben> jarek: Why must there?
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  170. # [02:13] <jarek> why not?
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  172. # [02:13] <webben> jarek: Not really clear what you think the problem with MVC is, in less you're trying to make it a hammer for every nail.
  173. # [02:14] <webben> *unless
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  176. # [02:15] <jarek> webben: I think that there should be clean separation between the data (e.g. tables in database or RGB channel values in color picker) and everything else
  177. # [02:15] <jarek> not sure how you call such architecture, client-server?
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  179. # [02:16] <webben> Depends what you mean.
  180. # [02:16] <jarek> webben: I don't want to split methods that are handling user input and rendering into separate objects (like in MVC), it just feels wrong to me
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  182. # [02:18] <webben> Hard to suggest solutions to "wrong feelings" ;)
  183. # [02:19] * mischief_ is now known as mischeif
  184. # [02:19] * mischeif is now known as mischief
  185. # [02:19] <jarek> I guess I will have to come up with a name myself
  186. # [02:19] <webben> Model-KitchenSink
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  188. # [02:20] <jarek> How about Model-ViewController?
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  190. # [02:21] <jarek> Model-ViewController-EverythingElse
  191. # [02:21] <jarek> that would make a poor buzzword :/
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  193. # [02:22] <webben> Given that good buzzwords lend themselves to misunderstanding, that's a feature not a bug.
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  196. # [02:30] <kurrent> webben: so true
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  285. # [04:31] <willdont> coda or dreamweaver?
  286. # [04:33] <tw2113> sublime text
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  288. # [04:35] <willdont> ah. textwrangler or sublime text?
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  291. # [04:41] <thatryan> TextMate
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  306. # [05:04] <thatryan> what are people up to?
  307. # [05:07] <tw2113> i know how you feel lately thatryan, i've seen your frontend dev tweets
  308. # [05:07] <thatryan> ?
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  310. # [05:07] <thatryan> whatcha mean
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  313. # [05:08] <tw2113> i'm poor and needing new work
  314. # [05:08] <tw2113> sounded like you were looking for work as well
  315. # [05:08] <thatryan> ah, gotcha. I am actually wanting a new job ;)
  316. # [05:09] <tw2113> job/work/whatever
  317. # [05:09] <tw2113> source of income
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  348. # [06:05] <thatryan> Anyone use iTerm? http://www.iterm2.com/
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  362. # [06:33] <needhelp> Does anyone know if you can do peer to peer network transmissions with html5?
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  368. # [06:41] <hemanth> needhelp, http://www.webrtc.org/ ?
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  498. # [09:46] <[AD]Turbo> hola
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  502. # [09:52] <cryptopsy> is there easy h5 way to make smooth fade animation, or use jquery instead? for example, click on a div that shows a paragraph of text; the appearing of that paragraph should fade in like a ghost
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  531. # [10:32] <boulet101010> suggest you to use jquery
  532. # [10:32] <boulet101010> but with JS and html5 it's possible of course
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  560. # [11:10] <hemanth> meow
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  602. # [11:31] <cryptopsy> how?
  603. # [11:32] <andrewjbaker> Quick reminder: http://js13kgames.com/ is currently underway. Any questions; swing by #bbg.
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  606. # [11:39] <cryptopsy> join #js
  607. # [11:39] <cryptopsy> whoops
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  613. # [11:46] <andrewjbaker> "Your IRC channel needs YOU!" :-p
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  745. # [14:45] <tom[]> does anyone know of an html5 capable filter/sanitizer/purifier? (html purifier is great as far as it goes but it's old.)
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  1010. # [19:01] <DudeNess> Hi, anyone know if it's possible (or have seen) a multi-track html5 audio player with mixer capabilities? Similar to any multi-track audio editing program.. Looking for something that can play a music bed and turn on different vocals (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) with perfect sync.
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  1041. # [19:31] <paul_irish> kurrent: ember and angular have my attention
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  1046. # [19:33] <thatryan> I sarted reading on ember yesterday
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  1057. # [19:39] <thatryan> now i just need an app to build with it
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  1069. # [19:51] <tw2113> always an issue?stuff to build with the cool tools available
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  1173. # [21:53] <Kazz> So... what do we have for today?
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  1220. # [22:52] <aXeusSevn> If you're using the canvas drawImage function while the canvas is rotated; how would you draw the rotated image and yet place it on a non-rotated X/Y coordinate.
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  1222. # [22:53] <aXeusSevn> Or rather, a diagram to better explain the question: http://i.imgur.com/2yyAQ.png
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  1249. # [23:20] <thatryan> what is a good starting tutorial for making an HTML5 game?
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  1256. # [23:33] <todun> newbie to html5, trying to use the geolocation feature and database feature to store images. my first question is if I have html5 code and a browser, can I just run it?
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  1263. # [23:42] <Jon47> todun: yep
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  1267. # [23:43] <todun> Jon47: okay. thanks. when I try sample code from google, it didn't seem to work: http://mobile.tutsplus.com/tutorials/mobile-web-apps/html5-geolocation/
  1268. # [23:43] <todun> perhaps I'm doing something wrong.
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  1270. # [23:44] <todun> one of my goals is to display a specific image when I am at a specific coordinate(latitude and longitude).
  1271. # [23:44] <Jon47> todun: do you know how to use dev tools?
  1272. # [23:44] <todun> Jon47: do you mean this https://developers.google.com/chrome-developer-tools/
  1273. # [23:44] <todun> ?
  1274. # [23:44] <Jon47> also just fyi this tutorial is over 2 years old, the apis might have changed
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  1276. # [23:45] <Jon47> todun: yep, that's one example. other browsers have it as well
  1277. # [23:46] <todun> Jon47: not completely, but I'm familiar of it
  1278. # [23:46] <Jon47> you can use the dev tools to see what's working and what's not working
  1279. # [23:46] <Jon47> for example, i haven't used the geolocation api but i imagine there's a javascript component
  1280. # [23:46] <Jon47> you can view any javascript errors or other messages in the js console of your dev tools
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  1284. # [23:48] <todun> Jon47: okay. thanks.
  1285. # [23:49] <todun> to get into html5 caching, can I use that to store images?
  1286. # [23:49] <todun> I'm trying to treat html5 as a database
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  1288. # [23:50] <Jon47> todun i don't think that's wise
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  1290. # [23:51] <Jon47> the browser cache is pretty limited, i believe most browsers have to receive direct user confirmation to use more than 5megs
  1291. # [23:51] <Jon47> i'm not sure what the max is
  1292. # [23:51] <Jon47> but it's not big
  1293. # [23:51] <Jon47> and i don't thnk it has good error handling either
  1294. # [23:51] <Jon47> so if you go over the limit i wouldn't expect a clean exception that you can catch
  1295. # [23:52] <todun> okay.
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  1300. # Session Close: Fri Aug 31 00:00:00 2012

The end :)