/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-10-13 / end

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  85. # [02:31] <jarek> Hi
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  87. # [02:31] <jarek> is there an event that would allow me to detect when whole DOM finished drawing?
  88. # [02:32] <jarek> DOMContentLoaded fires when DOM is loaded, but there is still some flickering
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  92. # [02:41] <paul_irish> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSQ03mfV5ms :D
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  94. # [02:41] <paul_irish> jarek: nah because JS can be bound to DOMContentLoaded but still draw
  95. # [02:42] <paul_irish> like you could use .mozPaintCount to detect when paints have slowed to some threshold after domready
  96. # [02:42] <paul_irish> probably best to call it a day at window.onload
  97. # [02:43] <jarek> paul_irish: I'm currently using setTimeout which sets document.style.visibility after fixed delay
  98. # [02:44] <jarek> but I can't really be sure how long it will take to load everything because it depends on client hardware and browser
  99. # [02:45] <Garbee> paul_irish, How did you find that video?
  100. # [02:45] <jarek> s/document.style.visibility/document.body.style.visibility
  101. # [02:45] <Garbee> It is purely awesome.
  102. # [02:45] <Garbee> Could be longer...
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  104. # [02:47] <sethetter> Is the usemin task in h5bp build script a third party thing, or something only included with that build script?
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  106. # [02:50] <paul_irish> Garbee: IRC
  107. # [02:50] <Garbee> Wow, IRC can find anything.
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  109. # [02:51] <Garbee> Seriously, too man people... Most of them smart.
  110. # [02:51] <paul_irish> jarek: why not just turn on visibility at window onload?
  111. # [02:51] <jarek> I really don't understand what's all the fuss about Yeoman, why not just use custom build script?
  112. # [02:51] <paul_irish> how you writing your build script?
  113. # [02:51] <jarek> is there actually something like Yeoman in other programming environements?
  114. # [02:51] <Garbee> I like Yeoman. I just wish I knew where its Bootstrap version came from.
  115. # [02:52] <Garbee> I'm sure most languages have someone who has setup a bootstrap builder to get projects started quickly.
  116. # [02:52] <jarek> Garbee: how many dependencies do you have in your project?
  117. # [02:52] <Garbee> Yeoman for me keeps fresh setups up-to-date compared to handling updating everything manually myself. On top of that I get nice output to use once I develop the project further in a CMS.
  118. # [02:53] <jarek> my custom build scripts usually take ~200 lines of code even in big projets
  119. # [02:53] <Garbee> jarek, Personally almost none. I just use base yeoman right now.
  120. # [02:53] <jarek> s/projets/projects
  121. # [02:53] <Garbee> jquery and bootstrap.
  122. # [02:53] <Garbee> I haven't learned all to Yeoman yet to really take advantage of it.
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  124. # [02:53] <Garbee> I play with it on the side mostly, since I run Windows as my main OS.
  125. # [02:54] <Garbee> But what I am using it for I like so far.
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  127. # [02:54] <Garbee> I just wish I could tie it right in with some PHP.
  128. # [02:54] <Garbee> sethetter, I don't even see a usemin task. What file is it in?
  129. # [02:54] <sethetter> https://github.com/h5bp/node-build-script/wiki/usemin
  130. # [02:55] <sethetter> It's used in the gruntfile generated by the h5bp build script, but I haven't seen it anywhere else.
  131. # [02:55] <paul_irish> its in yeoman too
  132. # [02:55] <sethetter> Except also in yeoman
  133. # [02:55] <sethetter> paul_irish: right :)
  134. # [02:55] <paul_irish> it's not realy abstracted out
  135. # [02:56] <paul_irish> mklabs authored all three
  136. # [02:56] <paul_irish> sethetter: i'm sure he'd be happy for your help breaking it out into its own repo
  137. # [02:56] <paul_irish> and its own grunt task
  138. # [02:57] <sethetter> paul_irish: awesome, off to work on that
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  198. # [04:11] <Aric> does anyone have a recommendation for some type of blank project that uses something like backbone.js
  199. # [04:11] <Aric> that comes premade with h5bp, twitter bootstrap, jquery+jqueryui, etc
  200. # [04:12] <Aric> i just wanted to play around with "real-time" js frameworks and was wondering if there was a really good prebuilt one
  201. # [04:13] <Aric> fyi, i'm looking at meteor and firebase but looking for something just like them, only more MVC'ish on the server side like a Spring MVC, Django or Zend Framework... though I'm not expecting the same maturity I guess
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  203. # [04:14] <jarek> Aric: I would recommend you http://vanilla-js.com/
  204. # [04:15] <jarek> MVC is bullshit
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  206. # [04:15] <jarek> (I'm fighting with it right now)
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  208. # [04:16] <Aric> I like the general mvc structure wasn't referring to javascriptmvc
  209. # [04:16] <jarek> there is no general MVC structure :P
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  211. # [04:16] <jarek> every MVC framework interprets it differently
  212. # [04:17] <jarek> but they all have one thing in common - they are overcomplicated and bloated
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  214. # [04:20] <Aric> i'm wondering what the most complicated application you've ever built if you dismiss MVC completely
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  216. # [04:21] <jarek> Aric: my two most complicated applications are not public yet :P
  217. # [04:21] <Aric> i admit i am only making assumptions but it's based off doing php, python and java based sites
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  219. # [04:21] <jarek> I fail to see why I would want to split every widget into three objects
  220. # [04:22] <jarek> the separation between view/controller/model feels artifical
  221. # [04:22] <Aric> i have a good background from those languages and have done html5/offline/mobile etc sites etc and used those languages on a backend and js on front end
  222. # [04:22] <Aric> i use jquery more than vanilla-js due to a lot of the jquery plugins and such i've used and my javascript is weaker than the other mentioned languages
  223. # [04:23] <Aric> but i assume that writing server-side javascript would still benefit from a good architecture
  224. # [04:23] <Aric> im talking about for complete websites with multiple sections, authentication, modules, etc
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  226. # [04:24] <Aric> database whether nosql or rdbms, related models with functions to access/write and so on, then referencing those models in a controller to separate logic from view (controller and view referencing to the model) etc
  227. # [04:25] <jarek> Aric: no sure about websites, but for dynamic applications I would just rely on object composition
  228. # [04:25] <Aric> i realize client side js will not or may not need the mvc, but i'm looking at ssjs also
  229. # [04:25] <jarek> it makes sense to have abstract model that represents application state and data
  230. # [04:27] <jarek> Aric: I would say that server side JS will be limited to data storage and authentication in the near future
  231. # [04:27] <jarek> while everything else will be done on client side
  232. # [04:27] <jarek> you can exchange data between them with WebSockets
  233. # [04:27] <Aric> thats the main motivation for playing more with "hardcore" js usage than just jQuery'ish stuff
  234. # [04:28] <Aric> but i want to feel out the community on the best ssJS library/setup to use for websockets and realtime communication
  235. # [04:28] <Aric> meteor looked nice and clean and all the other stuff was for familiarity
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  270. # [05:29] <variable> the autocomplete="off" attribute specification really needs to have an added paragraph
  271. # [05:29] <variable> there must be a global ignore user setting
  272. # [05:29] <variable> :(
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  414. # [13:14] <liquid-silence> hi guys
  415. # [13:14] <liquid-silence> I am, new to html 5
  416. # [13:15] <liquid-silence> is it possible to build a html 5 app and the consume it in ios / android / desktop applications?
  417. # [13:17] <asher^> have a look at phonegap
  418. # [13:18] <liquid-silence> asher^: mind a pm?
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  420. # [13:18] <asher^> i havent used the product, so i cant help you much
  421. # [13:18] <asher^> i just know its used for deploying html5 apps to phone platforms
  422. # [13:19] <liquid-silence> yeah
  423. # [13:19] <liquid-silence> but this another side of this :)
  424. # [13:19] <liquid-silence> not so much phased on the phonegap side
  425. # [13:20] <asher^> just ask in here, more likely to get answers than a pm since i dont know much about it
  426. # [13:21] <liquid-silence> ok
  427. # [13:21] <liquid-silence> I have two images
  428. # [13:21] <liquid-silence> I want to put them next to each other but, I want them to resize based on the browser size / device screen size
  429. # [13:22] <liquid-silence> but I am not even sure where to begin with html 5 stuff
  430. # [13:24] <liquid-silence> I want to make use of the offline stuff aswell so that user can browse the images offline
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  432. # [13:24] <asher^> your best bet would be to look up some CSS tutorials, you can assign widths based on percentages
  433. # [13:24] <liquid-silence> I am thinking jquery mobile
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  435. # [13:28] <Garbee> Offline stuff you should be looking at Web Storage iirc. Although that has its own issues.
  436. # [13:30] <Velmont> IndexedDB and WebSQL
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  438. # [13:31] <asher^> websql is a dead standard unfortunately
  439. # [13:32] <Velmont> asher^: No reason not to use it when IndexedDB is not there still though.
  440. # [13:33] <Velmont> Could write IndexedDB, and then use the idb-ontopof-websql shim to get support other places.
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  450. # [13:52] <liquid-silence> ok running in to some issues
  451. # [13:52] <liquid-silence> visual studio is telling me <picture> element is not supported?
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  454. # [14:02] <Garbee> <img> ?
  455. # [14:02] <Garbee> <picture> is not an element.
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  459. # [14:07] <Garbee> liquid-silence, Please don't PM without asking.
  460. # [14:08] <liquid-silence> sorry double clicked by mistake
  461. # [14:08] <Garbee> What did you want?
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  527. # [16:03] <sunbeam> what are common CSS grid systems?
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  533. # [16:11] <Garbee> 960gs and Blueprint. I personally don't like them though. Twitter Bootstrap has a really good grid in it.
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  589. # [17:34] <Stats> Hello, what would cause a radio input button to have it's value suppressed?
  590. # [17:35] <asher^> suppressed?
  591. # [17:35] <mstalfoort> Stats, if disabled attribute is present
  592. # [17:36] <mstalfoort> maybe there are more use cases, e.g. not having a value attr?
  593. # [17:37] <Stats> <label for="size1">T-Shirt Size:</label> <input type="radio" name="size1" value="S" /><input type="radio" name="size1" value="M" />….
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  596. # [17:38] <Stats> Displays the following: T-Shirt Size: ( ) ( ) …
  597. # [17:38] <Stats> No labels after the input buttons
  598. # [17:39] <asher^> you need to make labels for them
  599. # [17:39] <mstalfoort> Stats, can you setup a jsfiddle, that would be easier to look at
  600. # [17:39] <mstalfoort> and what asher^ says
  601. # [17:40] <asher^> <input type="radio" name="size1" id="sizeS" value="S"><label for="sizeS">S</label>
  602. # [17:41] <asher^> the "T-Shirt Size:" thing isnt a label because it doesnt correspond to a unique input
  603. # [17:43] <mstalfoort> you need the id attr for that on the input elm, like in asher^ example
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  834. # [22:52] <alvincrespo> hey everyone
  835. # [22:52] <alvincrespo> does anyone know about optimizing images for iphone web apps?
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  860. # [23:43] <teear> 123
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  872. # Session Close: Sun Oct 14 00:00:00 2012

The end :)