/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-10-15 / end

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# Session Start: Mon Oct 15 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:06] <guardian> hello. a while ago I used the "the perfect 3 column liquid layout" from there http://matthewjamestaylor.com/blog/perfect-3-column.htm . I'm totally new to html5, and tools like compass & susy etc. is there a point converting that site (which still works fine) to something modern?
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# [00:16] <Garbee> guardian, The only point is to use the preprocessor and probably clean some stuff up by using variables and such.
# [00:16] <Garbee> No need to use a preprocessor though.
# [00:19] <guardian> well I computed the percentages by hand a while ago; adjusted the vertical rythm so that it behaves with ie6 (the countdown didn't even have started). and apart from those 6 "wrapper" divs, I didn't add the tons of css classes you can see in "traditional" grid systems
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# [00:19] <guardian> so I'm really wondering what it would bring in this precise case, beside the sound principle of semantic markup
# [00:19] <Garbee> Well, there is no real need to use a preprocessor unless you want to convert.
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# [00:20] <Garbee> I think this question might be offtopic though. I'm not too sure of the exact scope of this channel.
# [00:20] <guardian> as the "the perfect 3 column liquid layout" article states, columns appear in markup with sensible middle column, left column then right column ordering
# [00:21] <guardian> ah yeah I really didn't know where to ask :( I'm sorry for that
# [00:21] <Garbee> It is fine.
# [00:21] <Garbee> I will help the best I can, but I also can't really think of anywhere better. :/
# [00:21] <Garbee> What the article states has nothing to do with using a preprocessor or not.
# [00:21] <Garbee> That is just personal choice.
# [00:22] <guardian> indeed, I was more interested in the benefits of semantic tags vs those "simple enough" wrapper divs
# [00:22] <Garbee> Just readability really. But also added confusion if you don't really understand the elements.
# [00:23] <guardian> as I said, I followed that article 6 years ago :) and now it looks like CSS is capable of doing grids and preprocessors come with battle tested frameworks with hacks for IE6, IE7 browsers
# [00:23] <guardian> maybe converting is just looking towards the future
# [00:24] <guardian> still it feels like converting something that works (with no real drawback I can think of, yeah semantic is sound but those wrapper divs don't really hurt either since they're not cluttered with tons of presentation classes) is a bit useless
# [00:25] <guardian> anyways, thx for caring
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# [00:42] <Garbee> guardian, Sorry, I got caught up in the WPD room.
# [00:42] <Garbee> I like the look of Flexbox personally.
# [00:42] <Garbee> Still need to mess around some more, but that is looking like a nice setup.
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# [00:56] <guardian> what's the browser support for flexbox?
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# [00:59] <Garbee> http://caniuse.com/#search=flexbox
# [00:59] <Garbee> Pretty good actually.
# [00:59] <guardian> ah nice
# [00:59] <guardian> thx
# [01:00] <Garbee> tbh, much better than I even thought.
# [01:00] <Garbee> Once again, sorry for delayed response. WPD is keeping my busy lately.
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# [10:23] <Ginger26> hi why do html5 use so much hardware resources ? like its putting so much strain on my cpu
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# [10:53] <popolon> hi
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# [10:56] <popolon> Do you know if there is a mean to get the sensitive pressure of an event device in HTML5+js ?
# [10:58] <mike5w3c> popolon: no yet no
# [10:58] <mike5w3c> I don't think
# [10:58] <mike5w3c> I believe the DOM Events WG is planning to add that later
# [10:58] <popolon> every os can manage this a standard way no, I suppose this only need a mapping in the event class
# [10:59] <popolon> cool :)
# [10:59] <mike5w3c> popolon: see http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webevents/raw-file/tip/touchevents.html but I don't think anybody has implemented those parts yet
# [11:00] <mike5w3c> "force" attribute
# [11:01] <popolon> better than I thought
# [11:01] <mike5w3c> popolon: shepazu would be the right guy to ask about status of that
# [11:01] <popolon> there is even radiusX (for managing the pressure of a finger depending of surface contact)
# [11:02] <popolon> I tested the gpl application markers2 on an android phone and work fine, I didn't think that was possible
# [11:02] <mike5w3c> yeah and they are planning to add attributes for things like the angle of the pen
# [11:02] <popolon> perfect for tablets :)
# [11:02] <mike5w3c> yeah
# [11:03] <popolon> don't know if the galaxy note manage angle, I only hear about pressure ???
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# [11:03] <mike5w3c> I doubt it handles angle
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> I'm surprised it provides pressure info
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> I wonder how granular it is
# [11:04] <popolon> on note 1 : 512 levels
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> wow
# [11:04] <popolon> on note 10.1 & note 2 1024
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> that's pretty cool
# [11:04] <popolon> S pen is a wacom technology
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> damn
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> ah
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> so that figures I guess
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> that's a relatively expensive touchscreen then I guess
# [11:04] <mike5w3c> compared to most
# [11:04] <popolon> so angle could be implemented, but not sure
# [11:05] <mike5w3c> if it's a wacom screen I guess it probably could be exposed yeah
# [11:05] <popolon> if that's wacom technology I suppose this is more a question of electromagnetic sensors in pen and at the border of the box
# [11:06] <mike5w3c> yeah I wouldn't have any idea about the details
# [11:06] <popolon> or something like that
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# [11:06] <popolon> and that's a standard capacitive multitouch screen
# [11:06] <mike5w3c> OK
# [11:07] <mike5w3c> popolon: well if you want to know where the browser vendors are with enabling that stuff to be exposed to webapps, definitely ping shepazu some time when he's around
# [11:07] <mike5w3c> he's in the east coast in the US so probably sleeping now
# [11:08] <mike5w3c> and/or look around for him on the #webplatform channel
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# [11:12] <popolon> ok, thank you very much mike5w3c
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# [11:13] <mike5w3c> popolon: no problem, but I didn't help so much :)
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# [11:14] <popolon> I didn't find this page, so that's already a great help
# [11:14] <mike5w3c> ok
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# [13:51] <sunbeam> whats a recommendable way to have a image hover nav item
# [13:51] <sunbeam> i know li span a
# [13:51] <sunbeam> but that is not ok in this case because the nav link has transparent parts
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# [15:40] <Fox`> can anyone explain to me why i'd want to use a service like Pusher over my own websockets server?
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# [17:25] <garciawebdev> hello, 'morning
# [17:26] <garciawebdev> how do I prevent form submit when clicking ANY button inside of it?
# [17:26] <garciawebdev> I already have a button type="submit"
# [17:26] <garciawebdev> why does form submits with every button?
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# [17:28] <garciawebdev> I thought that form submits with every button when there's no type="submit" inside of it...
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# [21:25] <brucelee> hey
# [21:26] <rusfel> yo
# [21:26] <brucelee> got a quick question, i did some reading, probbaly not enough
# [21:26] <brucelee> but for html5, from what i read, you can design any kind of page using html4/css/js
# [21:26] <brucelee> what does html5 bring to the table?
# [21:26] <brucelee> how does it 'replace flash'
# [21:27] <brucelee> i mean, if html5 can 'replace flash'
# [21:27] <brucelee> doesnt it mean that html4 right now along with css and js can also replace flash
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# [21:27] <EHLOVader> *cough* http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+does+html5+replace+flash *cough*
# [21:28] <brucelee> i read a few links after googling that
# [21:28] <EHLOVader> tl;dr or search, is basically html5 comes with <canvas> on which 2d graphics can be drawn, and <video> elements which embeds the video (as the name suggests).
# [21:28] <Garbee> brucelee, You don't really replace flash just yet. It still has some things that HTML5 can't do.
# [21:29] <brucelee> i still dont have a clear picture of how html5/css/js can replace flash, but html4/css/js cant
# [21:29] <Garbee> You can replace it for a lot of general things.
# [21:29] <Garbee> Like video and audio playing in some cases.
# [21:29] <EHLOVader> brucelee: see my tl;dr
# [21:29] <Garbee> brucelee, They don't replace it.
# [21:29] <EHLOVader> canvas
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# [21:30] <brucelee> hey whats tl;dr mean?
# [21:30] <gavacho> too long; didnt read
# [21:30] <EHLOVader> to long didn't read
# [21:30] <Garbee> too lazy; didn't read
# [21:30] <Garbee> lazy/long same thing.
# [21:30] <EHLOVader> it is also easily discovered through use of google
# [21:30] <EHLOVader> all internets have been issued google
# [21:30] <brucelee> well yeah
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> Garbee: I ask my gf about how well endowed I was
# [21:31] <Garbee> Flash does some things that HTML simply can't do. Like live video streaming and those stupid online games.
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> she said it was lazy
# [21:31] <brucelee> basically i can research mroe, but im wondering if someone can just spoon feed me really quickly
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> that is not the same as long
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> http://www.chromeexperiments.com/
# [21:31] <brucelee> since im interested, but not interested to put in that much effort
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> those are mostly html5
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# [21:31] <EHLOVader> lots of canvas, svg webgl things
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> they are almost the main example of how html is growing to replace flash
# [21:31] <brucelee> oh
# [21:31] <brucelee> and html4 cant do that without canvas
# [21:31] <EHLOVader> brucelee: "Chrome Experiments is a showcase for creative web experiments, the vast majority of which are built with the latest open technologies, including HTML5, Canvas, SVG, and WebGL. All of them were made and submitted by talented artists and programmers from around the world."
# [21:32] <EHLOVader> that is mostly geared towards what javascript is capable of these days, but it also exposes the fancy flashy side of html5 more or less
# [21:32] <arietis> what is touch icon for?
# [21:32] <arietis> for bookmarks on apple devices?
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# [21:33] <brucelee> so i looked up some html5 canvas examples, it all the canvas tag does is define a space with width/height for your id, which you code using javascript?
# [21:34] <brucelee> so whats so special about html5 , beacuse you can code the same thing in js, and let it run through html4
# [21:34] <brucelee> right?
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# [21:34] <EHLOVader> *sigh*
# [21:34] * EHLOVader is all out of troll food
# [21:34] <EHLOVader> does anyone else have any?
# [21:35] <designbybeck_> Greetings, I'm new to HTML5 and rust after years of break from web design. do you link to a stylesheet the same way?
# [21:35] <designbybeck_> to an external style sheet
# [21:35] <brucelee> EHLOVader, i know you can easily answer me :p
# [21:35] <brucelee> can you just spend the ltitle bit of effort to feed me:(
# [21:37] <arietis> designbybeck_: yes
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# [21:38] <EHLOVader> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Performance/AsteroidBelt/Default.html
# [21:38] <designbybeck_> thank you arietis
# [21:40] <EHLOVader> brucelee: open that site in ie 6...
# [21:40] <Orginator> 50-60 FPS with 10 satellites @ 1920x956
# [21:41] <EHLOVader> you can find access to old IE's at browserstack.com
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# [21:42] <Orginator> makes me wonder how other browsers perform :P
# [21:45] <EHLOVader> Orginator: http://i.imgur.com/QXQBq.png
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# [21:45] <Orginator> EHLOVader well I'd guess that result means nothing
# [21:46] <Orginator> to make a valid test you'd have to test all the browsers at the same settings, same hardware..
# [21:46] <EHLOVader> what result
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# [21:46] <Orginator> etc
# [21:46] <EHLOVader> yes..
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# [21:46] <EHLOVader> chrome performed better on virtual servers at browser stack
# [21:46] <EHLOVader> but considering the resources there they were low
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# [21:46] <Orginator> have you also tested Nightly 19?
# [21:46] <EHLOVader> from the browsers I tested 1fps - 16fps
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# [21:48] <Orginator> EHLOVader: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mozilla-central/
# [21:48] <Orginator> give that one a try
# [21:48] <Orginator> :)
# [21:49] <EHLOVader> nope
# [21:49] <EHLOVader> cba
# [21:49] <Orginator> that's what I use as a daily driver
# [21:49] <Orginator> for a "nightly" it runs very stable :)
# [21:50] <EHLOVader> this is the highest it gets on browser stack... http://i.imgur.com/wB0N7.png
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# [21:50] <EHLOVader> version number and fps
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# [21:50] <EHLOVader> well I guess it has 16 beta
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# [21:51] <Orginator> outdated :P
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# [21:54] <EHLOVader> well why aren't you on 22 nightly?
# [21:55] <EHLOVader> oh it is slated, future date :-/
# [21:55] <Garbee> Orginator, How is it oudated?
# [21:55] <Garbee> By one version.
# [21:55] <Garbee> That is still up-to-date.
# [21:56] <EHLOVader> it's monday Garbee and the trolls are out to play
# [21:56] <Garbee> Yea, they all got tired of Webplatform it seems. :{
# [21:57] <Garbee> :P *
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# [21:58] <Orginator> Garbee the latest nightly is 19
# [21:58] <Orginator> he tested on 15 or 16
# [21:58] <Orginator> how is that 1 version?
# [21:59] <Garbee> Nightly != up-to-date.
# [21:59] <Garbee> They aren't released or stable.
# [21:59] <Orginator> not released, agreed
# [21:59] <Garbee> They are just for *testing* and development.
# [21:59] <Orginator> but they are stable
# [21:59] <Garbee> No, they don't count towards benchmarks unless they are being pushed to users via updates, period.
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# [22:00] <Orginator> that's your opinion
# [22:00] <Orginator> I am looking into the best experience
# [22:00] <Orginator> I don't care whenever something is being "pushed" to users or not
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# [22:05] <EHLOVader> if you are looking for the best experience for yourself, or for the best possible experience that works
# [22:06] <EHLOVader> but if you want the benchmarks you run to mean something, for the end users, that will actually be using the site, you should test lower end also
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# [23:00] <arietis> number: HTML5 A control for entering a floating point number.
# [23:00] <arietis> what if i have integer?
# [23:00] <arietis> is there any type of input for integers?
# [23:02] <designbybeck_> can someone show me a good example of proper page center.... like {margin: 0 auto;}
# [23:02] <designbybeck_> or does that work the same?
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# [23:02] <Garbee> designbybeck_, It does. You just need a container with a width set to put the margin on.
# [23:03] <Garbee> arietis, I don't see any setting to single out an interger.
# [23:03] <Garbee> Just floating point it seems.
# [23:03] <designbybeck_> Hmmm... ok let me try Garbee thank you
# [23:03] <arietis> Garbee: well it increments by 1
# [23:03] <arietis> so it's not a problem
# [23:03] <arietis> :)
# [23:04] <Garbee> Yea, if you have a set range you can use min and max
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# [23:04] <designbybeck_> oh yep worked just fine Garbee
# [23:04] <Garbee> That narrows down which numbers they can chose.
# [23:05] <mike5w3c> <input type=number step=1> will constrain to integer values, right?
# [23:05] <David_Bradbury> Depends on the browser
# [23:06] <David_Bradbury> On browsers that support it, sure - But you still should always validate your inputs
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# Session Close: Tue Oct 16 00:00:00 2012

The end :)