/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-10-23 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Oct 23 00:00:00 2012
# Session Ident: #html5
# [00:00] <t4nk849> I figured out what was wrong, but how do I add HTML code (buttons and inputs) to the canvas when the game is over?
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# [00:11] <aJacom> <button onclick="window.navigate('url');"></button> OR <a href="url"><button></button></a> ?
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# [00:15] <David_Bradbury> Please don't use inline JavaScript
# [00:16] <t4nk849> aJacom, that displays that in text, not html
# [00:17] <aJacom> t4nk849, that.. which one ?
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# [00:17] <t4nk849> oh, aJacom, I thought you were responding to me
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# [00:18] <aJacom> nope, asking a question
# [00:18] <t4nk849> oh, what are you trying to do?
# [00:19] <David_Bradbury> Just use an <a> and style it like a button
# [00:20] <t4nk849> ^yeah
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# [00:20] <t4nk849> David_Bradbury, are you good with canvas?
# [00:21] <David_Bradbury> I'd consider myself above average
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# [00:21] <David_Bradbury> @ t4nk849
# [00:22] <t4nk849> is there a way using a function like fillText, to include HTML
# [00:22] <Garbee> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/guides/html_text#Emphasis ... Under the examples for the <i> tag. Is using it for a book title in a bibliography really proper? I don't think it is since it isn't meant to be in a different mood or offset in any way. Book titles are just presentationally italicized which means it should be done through CSS.
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# [00:22] <David_Bradbury> You mean to actually draw HTML to the canvas?
# [00:23] <t4nk849> yeah kinda, I want to remove everything except the lower 40px, and display game is over and "<button id="clickToPlayAgain">Play</button>"
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# [00:25] <David_Bradbury> Garbee: It isn't because it is a book title - It is because it is something that is offset from the normal prose - Although I typically wouldn't use it for that purpose
# [00:25] <Garbee> How is it offset from the normal prose though?
# [00:25] <Garbee> I just think of it as normal text, that needs to be italized to adhear to English standards.
# [00:26] <Garbee> You don't say it any differently because it is a title.
# [00:26] <David_Bradbury> t4nk849: You aren't able to have HTML directly put into canvas, though there are some ways you can render the look of the DOM into canvas through some odd hacking (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/HTML/Canvas/Drawing_DOM_objects_into_a_canvas) Your best bet is to draw the button and then use the isPointInPath method
# [00:28] <David_Bradbury> Garbee: You wouldn't say "Book: Living with a Diminutive Stature" in a normal sentence. Thus I believe it is trying to separate that part out semantically (even though I don't like it)
# [00:28] <David_Bradbury> I think they should just toss the element, same with <b>
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# [00:28] <David_Bradbury> and <u>
# [00:28] <David_Bradbury> Err, I guess <u> was taken out
# [00:29] <Garbee> <b> does need to be removed.
# [00:29] <Garbee> There is literally no point for it.
# [00:29] <Garbee> You typically wouldn't even say book though if you speak it.
# [00:29] <Garbee> It is just a reference to what the item is.
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# [00:30] <Garbee> If anything you would say "The Book" take a pause due to the colon, then start with the item from the list. Therefore, still keeping the title in normal prose.
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# [00:30] <Garbee> Maybe I am just overthinking the English langugae.
# [00:30] <Garbee> language*
# [00:31] <Garbee> I do see where <i> has a use though. WhatWG has some good examples. I don't think a book's title like this though is proper.
# [00:32] <David_Bradbury> I think another tag would be more appropriate in most cases - I think <i> has too much junk associated with it unless they can come up with another word to describe it that starts with an 'i'
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# [00:34] <Garbee> What other tag would be semantic though that people would feel like typing? I see where repurposing <i> for this has its benefits and simplicities.
# [00:35] <Garbee> Something in my gut is just telling me that use-case is wrong. I'm going to propose it gets removed from the examples and replaced with something that is better.
# [00:35] <tantek> <i> can be thought of as *i*nstance of a term
# [00:35] <David_Bradbury> Maybe a <v> to convey a change in voice or vernacular
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# [00:36] <David_Bradbury> And that's fair enough
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# [00:36] <Garbee> <voice> perhaps. I think one letter tags are just bad in general.
# [00:37] <David_Bradbury> I think there should be some campaign to get rid of that association between i, and italic
# [00:37] <Garbee> Good luck.
# [00:37] <David_Bradbury> Heh
# [00:37] <Garbee> How else would you easily convey it though?
# [00:37] <Garbee> Italics makes sense for what it does.
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# [00:37] <David_Bradbury> I just want another way to refer to the tag - And I think instance would fit just fine
# [00:39] * David_Bradbury should register instancetag.com and run a campaign :p
# [00:39] <Garbee> haha, it is wrong. Looks like <u> should be used for citing including book titles.
# [00:39] <David_Bradbury> Isn't <cite> for that?
# [00:40] <David_Bradbury> Now that I think about it
# [00:40] <Garbee> <cite> is for the section of content.
# [00:40] <David_Bradbury> Ah
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# [00:40] <Garbee> <u> for the books title themselves.
# [00:40] <David_Bradbury> And I could see that
# [00:40] <Garbee> So, I am going to remove that example as I go through.
# [00:40] <Garbee> Thanks for the talk David!
# [00:41] <David_Bradbury> I'm probably going to be going through WebPlatform tonight and fix up some formatting
# [00:41] <David_Bradbury> no problem, time for me to get off work!
# [00:41] <Garbee> See ya!
# [00:41] <David_Bradbury> Later
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# [00:50] <chee> maybe seeing as it's an alternate voice or mood, it could be <i> for <i>nconsistency
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# [00:51] <chee> or <i>ndividual
# [00:51] <chee> or <i>ncitation/<i>ncite !
# [00:52] <chee> i know, it can be the idiosyncrasy tag
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# [02:03] <cgcardona> it's been approved by Microsoft and it's live in the app store for download http://apps.microsoft.com/webpdp/en-US/app/trulia-real-estate-homes-for/aaa2a256-90ca-4abd-938f-3788f598a235
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# [02:03] <cgcardona> we built it on the HTML5/CSS3/Javascript stack.
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# [04:20] <Richhh> most cross browser way to implement drag and droppable images? gonna work in ie7?
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# [07:54] <cgcardona> is playbackRate only a video thing?
# [07:54] <cgcardona> i can't seem to get the audio to slow down when i try it with an Audio object.
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# [08:44] <_shorinji_> resizing of textareas, is that just available in firefox and webkit?
# [08:44] <_shorinji_> natively
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# [11:36] <antgel> hi all, i'm experimenting with websockets for a new project. what would people here say is the easiest, quickest way to get a minimal websockets server up and running to handle messages from the websocket client that i'm developing?
# [11:36] <antgel> server doesn't need to do much in response, maybe write a log
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# [11:43] <Velmont> antgel: I don't know, but I have myself used orbited -- and went to a higher level webhook-style tool afterwards.
# [11:43] <Velmont> (which I think used orbited underneath)
# [11:44] <Velmont> It was not too painful to set up :-) It might be faster to just do it, rather than find something very easy/perfect :P
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# [12:06] <konza> Is this group active? I haven't seen any discussions till now... Please answer
# [12:07] <Velmont> konza: You have to idle here a day, and stuff pops up.
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# [12:08] <konza> Velmont, I was here yesterday
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# [12:14] <dahlfors> activity is relative
# [12:16] <dahlfors> if you idle a day, perhaps you don't see that much here. if you idle a week, chances are there are a few interesting discussions :)
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# [12:20] <konza> dahlfors, okay, will try this week :)
# [12:20] <dahlfors> I've been here for half a year or so
# [12:20] <dahlfors> picked up quite a few interesting things
# [12:21] <dahlfors> otherwise I can recommend the html5 weekly mailing list
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# [12:21] <konza> dahlfors, can you please point me to it
# [12:21] <dahlfors> http://html5weekly.com/
# [12:21] <dahlfors> this one
# [12:22] <dahlfors> it's a nice way to keep up to date with new stuff
# [12:23] <dahlfors> I don't have that much time to surf around anymore, so I like to get stuff in chunks like that
# [12:23] <konza> dahlfors, are there any other irc channel for html5
# [12:23] <Velmont> Yeah. There is also programmer weekly and js weekly.
# [12:23] <Velmont> konza: Depends on what you are interested in.
# [12:24] <Velmont> html5 itself is just a stupid marketing buzzword for everything and nothing today.
# [12:24] <konza> Velmont, you are right
# [12:25] <dahlfors> I guess #webplatform and webplatform.org is going to be quite awesome for html5, js etc
# [12:25] <dahlfors> it's just starting up right now though
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# [12:25] <Velmont> Yeah, agreed. -- And if you want to change specs and are serious about it, #whatwg
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# [12:28] <konza> thanks for the updates. . :)
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# [13:17] <antgel> oops, got disconnected, very happy to see reposts of any answers ^^ to my question ^^ about a simple websocket server
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# [13:44] <konza> antgel, you want to know about websocket server?
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# [14:09] <antgel> konza: specifically, what the quickest / easiest way is to set one up on a windows machine. i don't need anything else in the backend, just something to test my JS websocket client code against
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# [14:46] <konza> antgel, I used the websocketServlet in tomcat 7
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# [14:49] <sunbeam> a question, how come margin; padding are not set to 0 on html5 boilerplate?
# [14:49] <sunbeam> i mean, in any design you code to a template you will need by default all elements set to margin/padding 0
# [14:49] <sunbeam> (html5 boilerplate, normalize.css etc)
# [14:50] <danielfi_> that's supposed to happen on your css reset
# [14:50] * danielfi_ is now known as danielfilho|w_
# [14:50] <danielfilho|w_> i think.
# [14:51] <sunbeam> how do you mean?
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# [14:51] <sunbeam> the boilerplate is to serve as a default to start coding on
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# [14:52] <danielfilho|w_> yup, but there are people that starts coding with zero margin and padding, and there are people who don't.
# [14:52] <danielfilho|w_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6887336/what-is-the-difference-between-normalize-css-and-reset-css
# [14:52] <sunbeam> thanks
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# [14:53] <danielfilho|w> you're welcome :)
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# [14:54] <sunbeam> still wonder how come so much people use normalize.css
# [14:54] <sunbeam> i mean, i would add *{margin: 0 !important; padding: 0 !important;}
# [14:54] <sunbeam> but i guess then i better not use normalize
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# [15:06] <antgel> konza: i'm looking for something lightweight and quick (hence tomcat probably isn't it)
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# [15:12] <konza> antgel, You should do a backend implementation. Try node.js if you have it in your system.
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# [15:33] <Oprr> hi everyone!
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# [15:36] <mokush1> does anybody know if there is something similar to http://www.bytestrom.eu/blog/2009/1120a_jpeg_encoder_for_javascript, more more up to date? it seems that this encoder does not work anymore
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# [15:41] <TS-Kula> is it no problem to start
# [15:41] <TS-Kula> learning html 4
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# [15:42] <TS-Kula> ???
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# [16:15] <Oprr> who can recommend me the best practice for export html to wordpress?
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# [16:30] <kaushik_> hi all
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# [16:31] <sh0ne> how to prevent deleting of a contenteditable div tag when user deletes text using backspace? For exampe I have <div contenteditable="true">Some text.</div>'. When user clicks after .(dot) and start presing backspace text is getting erased. But when the user press backspace once again the div element gets deleted too. Is there any way to prevent this?
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# [18:49] <sunbeam> Whats the best for mobile smartphones?
# [18:49] <sunbeam> media screen and (max-width: 480px) {
# [18:49] <sunbeam> ?
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# [18:56] <chee> sunbeam: i use these http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/media-queries-for-standard-devices/
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# [19:02] <chee> sunbeam: in regards to normalize vs reset, those resets are expensive for browsers. normalize just targets the styles that some browsers are out of line on, and brings everybody back to a normal, back to standards. there's nothing stopping you from adding *{margin: 0 !important; padding: 0 !important;} to your css though. it's perfectly legal
# [19:04] <sunbeam> chee: ok thanks!
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# [19:04] <obert-> it is just useless to use the univ selector
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# [19:06] <obert-> s/useles/makes no sense
# [19:06] <sunbeam> obert-: how do you mean
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# [19:06] <chee> ya i never would reset everything like that, myself
# [19:06] <chee> but if you enjoy it then feel free
# [19:06] <obert-> basically you're resetting everything to 0 and then the line below you're setting everything to something
# [19:06] <sunbeam> chee: and in responsive development you shouldn't define things in px but in ems and % right?
# [19:06] <obert-> that's a whole weird approach
# [19:07] <chee> sunbeam: because there are things that you *don't* want to reset to 0, and those things will be overridden later on
# [19:07] <sunbeam> obert-: yea so you would say, use either
# [19:07] <sunbeam> use any of the 2 i mean
# [19:07] <chee> as obert- say
# [19:07] <chee> i still use px because i'm a bad man
# [19:07] <obert-> px nowdays are too good
# [19:07] <obert-> it isnt 2004 anymore
# [19:07] <obert-> sad but true
# [19:08] <sunbeam> so isn't using px for mobile devices bad?
# [19:08] <obert-> i dont think
# [19:08] <obert-> the point is that responsive != mobile
# [19:08] <chee> i don't think so. it's bad for internet explorer 6 and below because if you zoom in, the pictures and so on will get bigger but the font will not
# [19:09] <chee> which is unfortunate for people with bad eyesight
# [19:09] <sunbeam> well who supports below ie6?
# [19:09] <sunbeam> or even ie6
# [19:09] <obert-> yeah but ie6 is 10 years old browser
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# [19:09] <chee> i write for netscape 4
# [19:09] <sunbeam> i'm probably not developing as long as you, but i just don't see what usage it has
# [19:09] <obert-> heh
# [19:10] <sunbeam> that's like application developers would write code to be compatible on a 486
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# [19:10] <chee> i wasn't telling you that because i think you should be writing for ie6
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# [19:10] <obert-> 386 was my first pc
# [19:10] <chee> i was just saying it because… i guess i was saying it because i know it and i want everyone to know how smart i am
# [19:10] <sunbeam> hehe
# [19:11] <chee> lololo
# [19:11] <chee> i wonder what my first gombuter was
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# [19:11] <obert-> c64
# [19:11] <chee> i guess we had the Dragon32 and the Dragon64 before the ZX81 came out
# [19:11] <sunbeam> mine was when i was 7 in 1993, that i was allowed to use
# [19:11] <sunbeam> i think ehm 386 ?
# [19:11] <sunbeam> or was that too leet for that time
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# [19:12] <obert-> could be
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# [19:12] <obert-> i got 386 in 90 or 89 or 91
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# [19:13] <obert-> missin prince of persia
# [19:13] <sunbeam> hehe
# [19:14] <sunbeam> i just played super mario bros 3 in like 15 mins till level 8
# [19:14] <obert-> on 386?
# [19:14] <sunbeam> no on my mbp :P
# [19:14] <obert-> mbp?
# [19:15] <sunbeam> macbookpro
# [19:15] <obert-> i'm missin prince of persia but not pacman, btw https://www.django-cms.org/en/demo/
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# [19:15] <obert-> no idea about mac
# [19:16] <sunbeam> cool
# [19:18] <sunbeam> but seriously obert-
# [19:18] <sunbeam> when you need to develop a site for mobile devices support too
# [19:18] <sunbeam> do you work in px and not in % ?
# [19:18] <sunbeam> for content sections, header footer etc
# [19:19] <obert-> wow i arrived at third level for the first time
# [19:19] <obert-> i never dev a serious mobile app
# [19:20] <sunbeam> ohh
# [19:20] <sunbeam> what about chee
# [19:20] <chee> what about chee
# [19:20] <obert-> talkin about responsive design it no matters
# [19:20] <obert-> mobile is diff story
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# [19:20] <chee> i work in pixels on nearly everything because i'm a bad man, as i said
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# [19:21] <chee> i've developed mobile apps and still used pixels and everything has been fine and nobody died
# [19:21] <obert-> responsive design is almost easy, the key is media queries, so if you want to use % you just need to setup a max-width in px or em lookin at the media query you're using
# [19:22] <obert-> http://effecorta.it it should be almost responsive, not sure about all res, though. lazy on test it
# [19:23] <sunbeam> ok
# [19:23] <obert-> my own site instead should be ok http://ramacciotti.altervista.org/
# [19:23] <sunbeam> sec
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# [19:23] <sunbeam> well, i'd first start to adddress everything 1024px and above
# [19:23] <obert-> first link use px, second %
# [19:23] <sunbeam> (thats easy because i did that a thousand times)
# [19:23] <sunbeam> @media only screen and (min-width: 35em) {
# [19:23] <sunbeam> or
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# [19:23] <sunbeam> @media only screen and (min-width: 980px) { ?
# [19:23] <sunbeam> whats better to use to address all 1024px resolutions
# [19:23] <obert-> 35em what means?:)
# [19:24] <sunbeam> and higher
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# [19:24] <obert-> do you know which font-size user will have?
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# [19:24] <sunbeam> well, i'd set the base size
# [19:24] <sunbeam> but i guess thats not a good approach?
# [19:24] <obert-> if you set the body size sure
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# [19:25] <obert-> it no means nothing to us, without know that, perhaps
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# [19:26] <sunbeam> how do you mean
# [19:26] <obert-> anyway i'm an em fan. but i started to kill ie6 support since sometimes. i can just use max-width: px
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# [19:26] <obert-> to cover large screen res
# [19:27] <obert-> look at my site, for example
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# [19:28] <obert-> 2560, 1950,1280,1024,750,600,480 and perhaps you need to add a minor value for other kind of mobiles
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# [19:28] <obert-> perhaps i'd used too many css, but who cares
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# [19:29] <obert-> anyway google should have a full list of mobile and desktop screen res to be covered
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# [19:29] <obert-> to test my sites you can just resize the browser window using the mouse, from right to left
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# [19:29] <obert-> and you'll see positions changing
# [19:29] <sunbeam> http://css-tricks.com/snippets/css/media-queries-for-standard-devices/
# [19:29] <sunbeam> this u mean right obert-
# [19:30] <obert-> that url? no idea
# [19:30] <obert-> cannot remember where i'd learnt it
# [19:30] <obert-> something here and there perhaps
# [19:30] <obert-> never trust a single resource on the web, except w3.org
# [19:31] <sunbeam> obert-: your site is a good example but
# [19:31] <sunbeam> ehm sec
# [19:32] <obert-> but you can learn from many resources. for example if you want to use html5 you could take the normalise.css and remove all the useless stuff, by keepin only the header,footer,section { display: block; } stuff
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# [19:32] <obert-> ul { margin-left: 40px; } as in normalize.css is evil. imho
# [19:32] <sunbeam> Yea, and i saw a few more of which i thought it was evil
# [19:33] <obert-> general tags usage is pure evil, too often
# [19:33] <sunbeam> obert-: btw, you don't need media queries for ie9> ?
# [19:33] <obert-> dunno?
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# [19:33] <obert-> is there ie9 out there?
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# [19:33] <sunbeam> lol i think less then ie9 doesn't support media queries
# [19:34] <sunbeam> obert-: also, why don't you use all media queries in 1 css file
# [19:34] <obert-> there's surely js to fix that
# [19:34] <sunbeam> yea i know
# [19:34] <sunbeam> i use that, just was wondering
# [19:34] <obert-> because i dont like good performance:p
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# [19:34] <obert-> to me internal @media rules sounds like @import usage = bad approach
# [19:35] <sunbeam> ok clear
# [19:35] <obert-> but i know that some good people told me to use internal @media rules to keep up performance
# [19:35] <obert-> but they told me that too late. so i left the css as there
# [19:36] <obert-> it's up to you anyway
# [19:36] <sunbeam> yea i guess specially on large projects seperate files could be better
# [19:36] <obert-> not for performance, seems
# [19:37] <obert-> i usually trust the person who told me that
# [19:37] <obert-> 1 file = 1 server request, more files = more server requests
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# [19:37] <obert-> i assume that was they tried to tell me
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# [19:38] <obert-> but yes, separate files let you dev easily
# [19:38] <sunbeam> another question btw
# [19:39] <sunbeam> in a html responsive site i try to creater i want the header to display the full width/height of the browser screen
# [19:39] <sunbeam> when any of the header nav links are clicked the site should reveal the rest of the content
# [19:39] <sunbeam> create*
# [19:40] <sunbeam> and those header nav links should always be at the bottom of the screen
# [19:41] <obert-> ???
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# [19:42] <sunbeam> you dont undertand or
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# [19:43] <obert-> didnt gotcha yep
# [19:43] <obert-> use tinkerbin and do some tests and show us
# [19:43] <obert-> but i assume it is #css territory
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# [19:45] <sunbeam> ok i asked there too
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# [21:02] <roxlu> hi
# [21:02] <roxlu> Does someone knows if it's possible to get access to the raw bytes of a <video> frame?
# [21:07] <tantek> yes, see: http://html5doctor.com/video-canvas-magic/
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# Session Close: Wed Oct 24 00:00:00 2012

The end :)