/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-10-25 / end

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1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 25 00:00:00 2012
2. # Session Ident: #html5
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7. # [00:07] <awc737> can html input[type='text'] have a different value="" and visible text value?
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9. # [00:08] <moo-_-> awc737: value is the visible text value?
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11. # [00:09] <moo-_-> or you mean it does not evaluate after editing the text?
12. # [00:09] <awc737> in otherwords, can i put the text name in the input field, and the id in value=""
13. # [00:09] <awc737> so they will be different
14. # [00:09] <awc737> or on posting will the value ignore value="" and grab what's in the input?
15. # [00:11] <moo-_-> awc737: I am sorry I don't really follow you
16. # [00:11] <moo-_-> can you create an example on jsfiddle.net?
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18. # [00:11] <awc737> ok
19. # [00:12] <awc737> here, which of these will POST:
20. # [00:12] <awc737> $("input[name='parent_id']").val('x')
21. # [00:12] <awc737> $("input[name='parent_id']").attr('value', 'y')
22. # [00:13] <moo-_-> awc737: they are equal
23. # [00:13] <awc737> i'd like to put a string in 'x', but have the id in 'y' really posting
24. # [00:13] <moo-_-> val() is shortcut for value attribute on text input
25. # [00:13] <moo-_-> not sure about other controls (select, etc.)
26. # [00:13] <awc737> oh
27. # [00:14] <awc737> so maybe i should use a hidden input field, and just a label to display the name
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73. # [01:32] <sunbeam> I need a way to check whether the browser used is android/iphone (smartphone)
74. # [01:32] <sunbeam> how can i best do this?
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77. # [01:36] <s5fs> sunbeam: like useragent?
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79. # [01:37] <sunbeam> yes
80. # [01:38] <sunbeam> its not exactly 100% but i guess you'll catch 99% just by checking for that
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82. # [01:39] <s5fs> sunbeam: the 1% will be okay
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85. # [01:46] <sunbeam> s5fs: ok
86. # [01:46] <sunbeam> how can i best check this
87. # [01:49] <s5fs> sunbeam: here are some useragent strings: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Gecko_user_agent_string_reference
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89. # [01:49] <s5fs> sunbeam: to access it, just use "navigator.userAgent"
90. # [01:49] <s5fs> sunbeam: you can do this in your chrome or firebug console, just type it in.
91. # [01:50] <sunbeam> ok
92. # [01:51] <s5fs> sunbeam: sorry for my slow replies, my workday is almost over and i'm trying to wrap up for the day. been up since 4a, i'm lazy and therefore worn out.
93. # [01:51] <sunbeam> np
94. # [01:52] <sunbeam> hehe
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136. # [02:56] <oniijin> can anyone point me to a guide on using ssl to submit a form securely? there's no user logins or anything
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191. # [03:47] <Minty> Hi - how can i get rid of the padding / margin / whatever is causing the input textbox to be "over to the right a bit" at http://www.teamolympia.eu/donate.html
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196. # [03:57] <Minty> dead?
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231. # [04:49] <s5fs> oniijin: not sure i understand the question
232. # [04:50] <s5fs> oniijin: do you need installing an ssl cert, configuring your server to support ssl or just understanding how a secured form works?
233. # [04:51] <oniijin> I've never worked with ssl/https stuff so not sure how to proceed. The ssl cert is installed, I'm trying to figure out how to just securely submit a form.
234. # [04:54] <s5fs> oniijin: well, you just link to the page via https://site.com and in the post, the url is also https://site.com
235. # [04:56] <oniijin> So I don't have to do anything different in the form submission? Like say I use a typical php form. Just submit it like normal cept get to that page with https?
236. # [04:56] <s5fs> bingo
237. # [04:56] <oniijin> huh. that's nice
238. # [04:56] <oniijin> lol
239. # [04:56] <oniijin> I thought I had to handle session encryption yadayada
240. # [04:56] <s5fs> yeah for sure
241. # [04:56] <s5fs> well, sessions depend on how your application server is configured, but most frameworks and stuff handle that for you
242. # [04:57] <s5fs> i'd just try it with https and if it works, its working. you can always fire up wireshark and packet sniff to see the real story, but that's probably not useful for you yet.
243. # [04:58] <oniijin> so as long as I get to the form page thru https, then post to something that's https it's all good
244. # [04:58] <s5fs> yep
245. # [04:58] <oniijin> hope that works lol
246. # [04:58] <oniijin> that would be super
247. # [04:59] <s5fs> if it doesn't, you'll know it
248. # [04:59] <oniijin> haha will it throw a server error
249. # [04:59] <s5fs> don't overthink it, your browser and the server do all the work. unless something is misconfigured, it should be fine.
250. # [04:59] <s5fs> well, it'll either raise an error or you'll never see the form data (ie, no email sent or whatever)
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252. # [05:00] <oniijin> ok. thanks man..was gettin worried cuz I was googling for a while and didn't seem to find any info
253. # [05:00] <oniijin> all I saw was stuff bout wordpress and drupal
254. # [05:00] <s5fs> no worries, it's a good question. better safe than sorry with ssl stuffs
255. # [05:00] <s5fs> yeah, with drupal you just turn it on. i assume wordpress is the same.
256. # [05:02] <oniijin> yeah probably. I'm just doing updates to something I didn't make, so I just wanted to find out before I wreck something.
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258. # [05:02] <s5fs> take backups if you can, always nice to have an 'easy' way out
259. # [05:03] <oniijin> yes definitely. main issue is I only know php basics, so wasn't sure if there was some voodoo for php/ssl I needed to know
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262. # [05:04] <oniijin> I'm mainly designer, and my dev background is js/java/c. php just looks like a jumbled mess to me. lol
263. # [05:04] <s5fs> yeah, takes a bit of getting used to. it's easy to write unstructured code, so that's often what you see.
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266. # [05:06] <oniijin> I avoid it when I can. lol. The guy I'm doing some work for, his last dev was all php. She did everything in it. Even when it made no sense to.
267. # [05:06] <oniijin> So now when he needs things updated or fixed I have to wade through it.
268. # [05:06] <oniijin> coding hero style, of course
269. # [05:10] <s5fs> yeah, i just got off a big java project where the lead architect was huge into rolling his own solutions instead of using in-the-box functionality. dude rolled his own web server, this isn't even primarily a web app!
270. # [05:11] <oniijin> ouch. job security I guess. lol.
271. # [05:12] <s5fs> nah, he's moved on to other projects haha!
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273. # [05:13] <s5fs> just his personal style, maybe too smart for his own good. certainly not efficient imho.
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275. # [05:14] <oniijin> yeah it's dumb to build stuff from scratch when it's not needed.
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277. # [05:14] <oniijin> or even if he had it in his code store, just bad for future
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304. # [06:00] <paul_irish> ericelliott: aurgasm
305. # [06:00] <hemanth> paul_irish, meow! :)
306. # [06:00] <paul_irish> hey hemanth
307. # [06:00] <hemanth> paul_irish, what's new? Howz it going?
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312. # [06:06] <tw2113> paul_irish, how many times do you fly in a given month? ballpark figure
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315. # [06:10] <paul_irish> ive traveled 96k miles so far this year
316. # [06:10] <paul_irish> probably another 35 by the end
317. # [06:10] <tw2113> i commend you for putting up with airports that much
318. # [06:11] <tw2113> i had 1 day of a bad string of events and i'm happy to give up flying for a year
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320. # [06:13] <cgcardona> http://jsfiddle.net/E9DSH/ shows the networkState as 1 (NETWORK_IDLE) when the Audio Object's progress event fires when the spec says it should be 2 (NETWORK_LOADING). Am I missing something?
321. # [06:14] <cgcardona> should I ask in #whatwg? i don't want to spam both rooms.
322. # [06:14] <tw2113> yo cgcardona
323. # [06:14] <cgcardona> yo dawg
324. # [06:15] <cgcardona> wuddup
325. # [06:17] <tw2113> tired and a little crankypants, but i'll be fine after a long night of sleep
326. # [06:17] <cgcardona> what's the problem?
327. # [06:17] <cgcardona> yea these audio object events aren't firing *exactly* per the spec but I guess that's to be expected
328. # [06:17] <tw2113> long string of bad airport incidents
329. # [06:17] <cgcardona> sometimes the suspend event fires with a NETWORK_LOADING instead of a NETWORK_IDLE
330. # [06:21] <cgcardona> tw2113: where are you traveling?
331. # [06:21] <cgcardona> what's the incidents?
332. # [06:21] <tw2113> i'll take it to pm
333. # [06:21] <cgcardona> I'm still interested in chatting about the audio object if anyone is interested
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363. # [07:20] <hampsterblade_> Does anyone know a good webm video converter that supports subtitles
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411. # [08:56] <ericelliott> paul_irish: That's right. I think we've had this conversation before. Very good blog. =)
412. # [08:56] <paul_irish> :)
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631. # [14:24] <sunbeam> i've got a div that contains a form and has x amount of pixels, it should move down and make place exactly for another hidden div which slides in from the left
632. # [14:24] <sunbeam> any idea how i can best do this?
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664. # [15:17] <peto_> hello
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666. # [15:19] <peto_> I have an applet in a web page but the TAG Applet has been deprecated in HTML5
667. # [15:20] <peto_> now I can see the aplet in some browsers and OS's, but not in others
668. # [15:21] <peto_> is there a universal new tag to make it visible on any browser?
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834. # Session Close: Thu Oct 25 18:41:10 2012
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837. # Session Ident: #html5
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841. # [18:47] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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950. # [21:14] <thibauts> Hi, is there a technique or even a framework/library that will allow me to build a template with fixed width elements and other taking up the space left ? (like, stretching)
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953. # [21:19] <moo-_-> thibauts: boostrap?
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965. # [21:43] <oniijin> loll
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970. # [21:46] <moo-_-> peto_: If you want to distribute Java applications please use Java Webstart
971. # [21:46] <moo-_-> or whatever it is called nowadays
972. # [21:46] <moo-_-> <applet> is thing off a past
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991. # [22:19] <peto_> moo-_-, but I want to have this applet on a web page
992. # [22:20] <peto_> moo-_-, what is Webstart?
993. # [22:20] <moo-_-> peto_: http://java.com/en/download/faq/java_webstart.xml
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995. # [22:21] <moo-_-> peto_: unfortunately Java applets are phased out and browsers wont support them in the future
996. # [22:21] <peto_> what a pity
997. # [22:21] <moo-_-> please implement your application in alternative methods (HTML5+Javascript) if you need to embed it on a web page
998. # [22:21] <moo-_-> peto_: java applets were a fucking disaster. Sooner we get rid of them, better.
999. # [22:21] <Velmont> (unfortunately, lol)
1000. # [22:22] <peto_> if u knew the work it take me to transform from MS-DOS to the "then" universal applet for all browsers...
1001. # [22:22] <peto_> :' (
1002. # [22:23] <moo-_-> peto_: yes, that's pity. in a hindsight picking applet as a technology platform has not been wise choice for anybody.
1003. # [22:23] <moo-_-> peto_: hopefully you are paid by the hour
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1005. # [22:24] <peto_> it still works under GNU/Linux
1006. # [22:24] <peto_> though
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1009. # [22:27] <peto_> can not understand why they deprecate <Applet>
1010. # [22:27] <peto_> they could easily had it live
1011. # [22:27] <peto_> they could easily had left it live
1012. # [22:29] <peto_> I can still hope that Windows sinks and GNU/Linux take its place
1013. # [22:31] <s5fs> peto_: why can't they just coexist peacefully?
1014. # [22:31] <peto_> because Linux has not deprecated my Applet
1015. # [22:32] <peto_> :)
1016. # [22:32] <Velmont> Plugins are horrible. They're slow and make lots of problems.
1017. # [22:32] <s5fs> peto_: as mentioned above, java in the browser is dying. too many truck-sized security holes make it unpalatable.
1018. # [22:32] <Velmont> I'm happy flash and java applets has such a bad rep.
1019. # [22:33] <peto_> I have flash deactivated, when I want to see a flash program, I click there
1020. # [22:33] <peto_> Id like the same for applets
1021. # [22:34] <s5fs> peto_: what is this applet for?
1022. # [22:34] <s5fs> i hear it would take great effort to port forward, but at some point you'll have to cross that bridge.
1023. # [22:34] <peto_> my applet is sure enough, is a graphical fractal
1024. # [22:35] <peto_> josechu.com/moving_fractal
1025. # [22:35] <s5fs> peto_: i'd love to see it but i don't have java installed in my browser, haha!
1026. # [22:35] <peto_> jur
1027. # [22:35] <s5fs> (chromium on ubuntu)
1028. # [22:35] * Joins: Wildblue (~wb@c-69-140-154-17.hsd1.md.comcast.net)
1029. # [22:35] <peto_> even worse
1030. # [22:36] <peto_> you can download the .jar app
1031. # [22:36] <peto_> too
1032. # [22:36] <moo-_-> peto_: you can do that with <canvas> element and Javascript
1033. # [22:36] <moo-_-> though it will be little bit slower
1034. # [22:36] <peto_> good
1035. # [22:37] <peto_> you need four times the processors and power to run an applet of 2007
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1037. # [22:38] * Quits: pn0 (~pn0@95-31-214-222.broadband.corbina.ru) (Quit: Be back later)
1038. # [22:38] <Velmont> You can do it in canvas and with webgl shaders. It will run faster than your applet. If you can do it in a shader, that is.
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1043. # [22:41] <peto_> Velmont, what is canvas? can you embed it in all browsers?
1044. # [22:43] <moo-_-> peto_: yes
1045. # [22:43] <moo-_-> peto_: and if you need to use GPU for speed and power
1046. # [22:43] <moo-_-> this is what GPU can do with your fractals on WebGL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjgRGDhgehA
1047. # [22:45] <moo-_-> here is Javascript version http://bompo-content.appspot.com/webgl/hartverdrahtet/index.html
1048. # [22:45] * Quits: dgathright (~dgathrigh@nat/yahoo/x-rewcoksicsfbqnco) (Quit: dgathright)
1049. # [22:46] <peto_> that's beautiful
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1055. # [22:51] <peto_> have you seen the virtual instruments of Animusic? they are amazing too
1056. # [22:51] * Joins: benknight (~Adium@bastion.sfo1.yelpcorp.com)
1057. # [22:52] <peto_> btw the javascript version doesn't work in my browser either
1058. # [22:52] <peto_> :(
1059. # [22:52] <peto_> :)
1060. # [22:52] <moo-_-> peto_: it uses 3D so it won't be working in internet explorer
1061. # [22:52] <moo-_-> but you can do 2D <canvas> graphics fine
1062. # [22:53] <peto_> I use Chrome usually
1063. # [22:53] <peto_> and my fractal is 3D and moving
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1065. # [22:54] <peto_> It has always worked well in all browsers up t
1066. # [22:54] <peto_> up to the last security hole in Java
1067. # [22:54] <Velmont> You'll also need a gfx driver and card that is usable. Well, actually not, llvmpipe in Linux kinda works.
1068. # [22:54] <peto_> as if other platforms didn't have security holes
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1070. # [22:58] <s5fs> peto_: java has a history of severe security holes on the browser, it's just one after another
1071. # [22:59] <peto_> I have never had a problem with applets in the browser
1072. # [22:59] <s5fs> peto_: ask google about java security holes, it may surprise you
1073. # [22:59] <peto_> what about explorer security holes?
1074. # [23:00] <peto_> or windows security holes?
1075. # [23:00] <Velmont> But that's not single vendor.
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1077. # [23:00] <Velmont> There is competition there. And even free software alternatives.
1078. # [23:00] <s5fs> peto_: those are severe too, but java enables drive-by infections meaning you just have to visit a website to get infected, no user-interaction required. that's pretty bad.
1079. # [23:01] <peto_> yes
1080. # [23:01] <peto_> it has happened before, MS knows
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1082. # [23:01] <peto_> but they fix it in hours
1083. # [23:01] <peto_> like Oracle could, I think
1084. # [23:02] <peto_> I'm not sure if the Oracle buy of Java has been goog
1085. # [23:02] <peto_> in the end
1086. # [23:02] <s5fs> oracle has been lax in releasing fixes too, and apple finally dropped java since they were sick of supporting their own runtime. apple was crazy slow in shipping patches too.
1087. # [23:02] <peto_> has been good*
1088. # [23:02] <s5fs> peto_: i'm not certain either, but it does have me concerned. they are not exactly the best stewards of the technology, at least sun i had real trust for due to their history.
1089. # [23:04] <peto_> Or perhaps the bad thing was when it's inventor left
1090. # [23:04] <peto_> Gosling I mean
1091. # [23:04] <peto_> I don't know his whereabouts nowadays
1092. # [23:05] <s5fs> he's with liquid robotics now
1093. # [23:05] <peto_> ic
1094. # [23:05] <s5fs> i was reading his blog recently, haha
1095. # [23:05] <peto_> he
1096. # [23:05] <peto_> liquid robotics?
1097. # [23:05] <s5fs> beats me
1098. # [23:06] <s5fs> underwater vehicles
1099. # [23:06] <peto_> wow
1100. # [23:06] <peto_> that is a big change
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1109. # [23:17] <peto_> “Most people have been trained to try to harness waves for electricity generation, and that turns out to be really, really hard,” Gosling tells me. “But getting thrust? That’s worked out well for us.”
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1115. # [23:24] <moo-_-> any idea why IE8 would not render a particular PNG image?
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1121. # [23:31] <Garbee> moo-_-: IE8 hates the world.
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1130. # [23:44] <dahlfors> must.. kill... IE
1131. # [23:45] <dahlfors> all IE and no cross browser code makes dahlfors a very dull boy...
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1141. # Session Close: Fri Oct 26 00:00:00 2012

The end :)