/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2012-12-11 / end

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47. # [00:49] <cirenyc> Where is a good place to find browser support information?
48. # [00:50] <cirenyc> I'm particularly looking for support for HTML5 multiple image uploads.
49. # [00:51] <s5fs> cirenyc: http://caniuse.com
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52. # [00:54] <cirenyc> s5fs: Thanks. I found HTML5 form features, but don't see a sub-category for multiple file uploads. Safe to assume if a browser is marked as supporting HTML5 forms, it supports multiple file uploads?
53. # [00:55] <s5fs> cirenyc: hard to say, i'd keep hunting for sites and if all else fails, write up a test yourself
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56. # [00:56] <cirenyc> s5fs: thanks again.
57. # [00:57] <s5fs> cirenyc: best of luck!
58. # [00:58] <OzDave_mbp> I found something with a progress that compliments a few browsers that was an interesting read but I don't think it covered multiple instances http://www.matlus.com/html5-file-upload-with-progress/
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81. # [01:21] <Moo^_^> cirenyc: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Using_files_from_web_applications#Example.3A_Uploading_a_user-selected_file
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83. # [01:24] <roy___> I'm trying to figure out how to make a link that will bookmark the page if the user clicks on it .. Is that still possible with modern browsers ?
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85. # [01:25] <OzDave_mbp> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3024745/cross-browser-bookmark-add-to-favorites-javascript
86. # [01:26] <OzDave_mbp> google knows all things
87. # [01:29] <Moo^_^> roy___: not really
88. # [01:29] <Moo^_^> roy___: I think modern browsers are disabling this behavior
89. # [01:29] <roy___> Yeah seems so
90. # [01:29] <Moo^_^> because it's often considered as spammy tactics
91. # [01:29] <Moo^_^> and users hate it
92. # [01:29] <OzDave_mbp> see if that code survives
93. # [01:30] <Moo^_^> OzDave_mbp: it doesn't
94. # [01:30] <OzDave_mbp> bye bye old feature then
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254. # [07:36] <asher^> does anyone know of a good html5 video package (with flash fallback) that works well cross browser?
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264. # [07:57] <martisj_> jplayer
265. # [07:57] <martisj_> maybe
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285. # [08:44] <asher^> anyone know a good tool to convert h264 video to ogv? im coming up short
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312. # [09:10] <Yoric> Hi
313. # [09:11] <Yoric> I am writing on a small html5 app for fun and I am stumbling upon probable limitations of the File API.
314. # [09:11] <Yoric> Most desktop applications offer the possibility of opening a recently opened file.
315. # [09:11] <Yoric> Is there a way I haven't imagined to do the same with the File API?
316. # [09:16] <OzDave_mbp> save an instance and always load a new refreshed instance of it from a last path?
317. # [09:17] <Moo^_^> asher^: ffmpeg
318. # [09:17] <Moo^_^> Yoric: no, sorry. File open instances ar per page session only
319. # [09:18] <Moo^_^> Yoric: unless you keep files in local storage
320. # [09:18] <asher^> Moo^_^ any tips on how to get a decent quality video out of it? mine have been coming out pretty poor
321. # [09:19] <Moo^_^> asher^: I suggest you ask on media and video encoding specific forum
322. # [09:19] <OzDave_mbp> I can answer that
323. # [09:19] <Moo^_^> asher^: also use webm, not ogv
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325. # [09:19] <OzDave_mbp> what format is the current intended file, it should be something heavily uncompressed and far exceeds your eye opening ability to comprehend how much space it takes up
326. # [09:20] <asher^> Moo^_^ h264+webm will leave me without support for older versions of firefox i believe
327. # [09:20] <OzDave_mbp> As a motion ographer I save or render into a ram disk into a codec called Animation
328. # [09:20] <OzDave_mbp> then I use the same ram disk to compress it to h264 or mp4
329. # [09:20] <Moo^_^> asher^: it's uncommon to need to support old FF releases
330. # [09:20] <Moo^_^> but do whatever works for you
331. # [09:20] <tw2113> we actually update
332. # [09:20] <OzDave_mbp> The reason being is that animation has the best uncompressed layouts with alpha channels if required
333. # [09:21] <asher^> Moo^_^ that might be a good point, i guess i should see how many people are using 3.5-3.6
334. # [09:21] <OzDave_mbp> compressing a compressed file is like trying to make a pixelated jpeg look good
335. # [09:21] <OzDave_mbp> as long as you are paying attention...
336. # [09:22] <Moo^_^> asher^: it does not even register
337. # [09:22] <Moo^_^> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser_version-ww-monthly-201111-201211
338. # [09:22] <OzDave_mbp> what is the current file to be compressed current codec?
339. # [09:22] <Moo^_^> wait, that's faulty counting those have there
340. # [09:23] <asher^> OzDave_mbp i have h264 as input
341. # [09:23] <OzDave_mbp> so your trying to compress an already compressed file?
342. # [09:23] <OzDave_mbp> Have you ever flipped a jpeg 1000 times and seen the result?
343. # [09:24] <Moo^_^> asher^: choose by version, last month
344. # [09:24] <asher^> Firefox 3.5 0.15
345. # [09:24] <asher^> Firefox 3.6 0.77
346. # [09:24] <OzDave_mbp> http://www.petapixel.com/2012/08/14/why-you-should-always-rotate-original-jpeg-photos-losslessly/
347. # [09:24] <asher^> im not trying to compress, im trying to convert
348. # [09:24] <OzDave_mbp> conversion is compression
349. # [09:24] <asher^> Moo^_^ thanks, webm it shall be
350. # [09:24] <OzDave_mbp> derp
351. # [09:24] <asher^> OzDave_mbp in any case, what is your point exactly?
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353. # [09:25] <OzDave_mbp> I just explained myself
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355. # [09:25] <asher^> what are you suggesting i do?
356. # [09:25] <OzDave_mbp> Always start with an uncompressed file like the animation codec and bring it down to a compressed state like h264 or mp4
357. # [09:26] <asher^> as i said, my input is h264
358. # [09:26] <asher^> i cant do that
359. # [09:26] <OzDave_mbp> if you have to start with a compressed file like h264 try to unpack it to an uncompressed codec like animation which will be rather large in size and then compress it again down into a mpeg codec
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361. # [09:26] <OzDave_mbp> you are solidying the pixels for a better word
362. # [09:26] <OzDave_mbp> solidifying
363. # [09:26] <OzDave_mbp> its like wav to mp3
364. # [09:26] <OzDave_mbp> geddit?
365. # [09:27] <OzDave_mbp> your only going to get whatever the best result is however from the compressed derp into the uncompressed file ( animation ) codec which will be huge!
366. # [09:27] <OzDave_mbp> you should have the original uncompressed render in animation codec for best results to compress down
367. # [09:28] <OzDave_mbp> can you re -render the file again?
368. # [09:28] <OzDave_mbp> or are you using something that is rendered and no access to the original files that render it?
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370. # [09:29] <asher^> i only have h264, as i said
371. # [09:29] <OzDave_mbp> your only going to get whatever the best result is however from the compressed derp into the uncompressed file ( animation ) codec which will be huge!
372. # [09:30] <OzDave_mbp> h264 to animation codec then compress it down again from that uncompressed / compressed mungefarkle
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374. # [09:30] * Moo^_^ gives OzDave_mbp a steamroller badge
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376. # [09:31] <OzDave_mbp> is that a good badge :)?
377. # [09:32] <OzDave_mbp> use a ram disk / raid or ssd in that order for speed and finally a single platter ewww!
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382. # [09:37] <dahlfors> asher^: if you're on windows, have a look at SUPER. http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html
383. # [09:37] <dahlfors> that program converts most video formats
384. # [09:37] <OzDave_mbp> super is good yeah but the same rules of compression applies
385. # [09:38] <OzDave_mbp> one program wont save you from that golden aspect
386. # [09:39] <OzDave_mbp> I am making an uncompressed and compressed version if you have the patience to wait for my coconut connection to upload it
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388. # [09:42] <OzDave_mbp> brb ill render it out
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390. # [09:45] <asher^> dahlfors, wow, that thing sure is packed with toolbars and crap
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392. # [09:47] <dahlfors> guess that's how they make some money. I haven't used that software for years myself. but yes, I think you might want to do a custom install
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400. # [09:57] <OzDave_mbp> dropbox is very slow from here so its another 8 minutes or so before both of these files in this zip is accessible https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3053655/fire_compression.zip
401. # [09:57] <OzDave_mbp> one is animation codec and the other is h264
402. # [09:57] <OzDave_mbp> 320 x 240 150 frames
403. # [09:57] <OzDave_mbp> ill nudge ya when its done and you can compre
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407. # [10:00] <OzDave_mbp> fire_uncompressed_animationcodec.mov is the actualuncompressed file where as the fire_uncompressed_h264codec.mov is the compressed from the uncompressed master
408. # [10:01] <OzDave_mbp> 9 minutes to go
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413. # [10:08] <Yoric_> Moo^_^: That's what I feared. This is going to complicate a little my work.
414. # [10:10] <OzDave_mbp> enjoy those files for your tests.
415. # [10:10] * OzDave_mbp heads back to setting up bones for a character. I hate bones
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485. # [12:24] <IanWizard-Cloud> So, I've been looking at the local storage api, and thinking about a music player, written entirely in html5. I've seen that you can request access to local files that the users designates, but I've got two questions that I've not been able to answer with google. 1. Can you get access to an entire directory this way? (such as the entire music library),
486. # [12:24] <IanWizard-Cloud> and 2. Everywhere I read that it copies the user selected file to the LocalStorage directory, but I would hope / assume that it actually links to the original file. Obviously copying an entire music library into LocalStorage isn't reasonable.
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515. # [13:22] <Moo^_^> IanWizard-Cloud: there is file system API
516. # [13:22] <Moo^_^> IanWizard-Cloud: wait
517. # [13:22] <Moo^_^> there might be even something better
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519. # [13:23] <IanWizard-Cloud> Moo^_^: I believe that the filesystem api / localstorage are one and the same. Alot of what I find is ambiguous.
520. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> IanWizard-Cloud: this is fresh http://blog.chromium.org/2012/11/build-chrome-packaged-apps-with.html
521. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> it's chrome only
522. # [13:23] <Moo^_^> and looks like you need to wrap your page as an app
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524. # [13:24] <Moo^_^> IanWizard-Cloud: but the article contains pointers
525. # [13:25] <IanWizard-Cloud> Moo^_^: yeah, A. I'm trying to target mobile, and ff as well. And i'd also like to find a solution for non-media files for in the future (and other projects), but thx for the link. I'll read it over.
526. # [13:26] <Moo^_^> IanWizard-Cloud: btw this might be related
527. # [13:26] <Moo^_^> one day I came across a problem of playing MP3 files directly off the disk
528. # [13:26] <Moo^_^> and found Audia which is <audio> emulator over Web Audio API
529. # [13:26] <Moo^_^> https://github.com/miohtama/Krusovice/blob/master/src/tools/audiowrapper.js
530. # [13:27] <IanWizard-Cloud> hmm..
531. # [13:28] <IanWizard-Cloud> ok, I haven't gotten to that stage yet, so I haven't hadn't found that yet. Thanks.
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714. # [16:49] <mobile8> hi, i'm using gradients, and rounded corners for menu items, for some reason it's not possible to have both working together (I use PIE.js as border radius fix for IE7-8-9)
715. # [16:49] <mobile8> Any suggestions on how this can be solved?
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748. # [17:08] <prudnikov> I noted use of URLs without protocol name for example //something.com/script.js for media files such as JS, CSS, Images. I think it is for the use of https or http depending on what protocol used to load host page. Is this feature supported by all browsers? Is there any known problems by using this method?
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763. # [17:21] <bradleymeck> prudnikov: i havent heard of any problems with it, some people get confused by having 2 caches though since the http and https wont cache to same place
764. # [17:21] <iamdustan> prudnikov: http://paulirish.com/2010/the-protocol-relative-url/
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770. # [17:22] <iamdustan> looks like the only issue is IE6 with js and some specific security settings
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773. # [17:23] <bradleymeck> oh there is one thing, if you embed the link in email, hilarity will ensue
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776. # [17:25] <prudnikov> thanks... I'll use this in my project..
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822. # [18:12] <DudeNesss> Hi all, is there a way to play sound when a user clicks on an image in html5?
823. # [18:13] <onr> what a simple question that has no simple answer :)
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826. # [18:15] <grantg> implement your own javascript?
827. # [18:15] <grantg> to play an <audio> element upon so
828. # [18:15] <grantg> kind of implied
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832. # [18:16] <Kuifje> document.getElementsByTagName("audio").play();
833. # [18:17] <Kuifje> document.getElementsByTagName("audio")[0].play();
834. # [18:17] <Kuifje> I think that may work
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836. # [18:19] <tantek> no JS needed: <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/Turdus_merula_male_song_at_dawn%2820s%29.ogg" target="_blank"><img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Loudspeaker.svg/11px-Loudspeaker.svg.png" /></a>
837. # [18:20] <tantek> works in HTML3,4,5,XHTML ;)
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849. # [18:30] <tantek> Exercise for the reader: enhance that simple markup with an onclick handler to dynamically create an audio element from the href attribute and play it instead of "navigating" to the OGG. progressive enhancement FTW.
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885. # [19:09] <Moo^_^> prudnikov: it's also issue with file://
886. # [19:10] <Moo^_^> if you open the page directly from the disk
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891. # [19:14] <David_Bradbury> Better exercise. Using an event listener, listen to the click event to dynamically create an audio element from the href attribute and play it instead of "navigating" to the OGG. :)
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899. # [19:22] <tantek> David_Bradbury, exactly, that's next ;)
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901. # [19:23] <David_Bradbury> Personally, I'd skip teaching onclick because it is bad practice
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903. # [19:24] <tantek> I find it useful as a teaching exercise to show the simpler (less code) solution first, then explain its weaknesses, then move onto the more involved solution.
904. # [19:25] <tantek> otherwise people are apt to find out about the simpler one later anyway and assume it's better because it's simpler.
905. # [19:25] <David_Bradbury> That's fair enough.
906. # [19:26] <David_Bradbury> That said, I think anyone who assumes that something is better because it is simpler needs to relearn how to learn :)
907. # [19:26] <tantek> No, that's simply called Occam's razor ;)
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909. # [19:27] <tantek> It's nearly always better to start with / try simpler approaches first. Because if they work, you're done. If they don't, you've learned why not to. win-win.
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920. # [19:51] <jarek_> Hi
921. # [19:51] <jarek_> what is the best way to remove all unused defs in SVG document?
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924. # [19:52] <jarek_> e.g. in order to ensure that linearGradient is not used anywhere I would have to run getComputedStyle() on each element? :/
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926. # [19:52] <shepazu> jarek_: how do you plan to find out if a <defs> is used?
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928. # [19:52] <jarek_> shepazu: I would like to remove all unused gradients when user saves document
929. # [19:53] <shepazu> jarek_: sensible… what app are you talking about?
930. # [19:53] <jarek_> shepazu: it's SVG editor simillar to Inkscape
931. # [19:53] <jarek_> in Inkscape there is "Vacuum defs" menu item
932. # [19:53] <shepazu> jarek_: is it web-based?
933. # [19:53] <jarek_> but Inkscape is ignoring external stylesheets
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935. # [19:54] <jarek_> shepazu: it will be released as packaged Chrome app and OSX app
936. # [19:54] <shepazu> jarek_: excellent
937. # [19:54] <shepazu> jarek_: open source, or for pay?
938. # [19:55] <jarek_> shepazu: initially it will be commercial for sure
939. # [19:55] <shepazu> ah, pity
940. # [19:55] <shepazu> still
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942. # [19:56] <shepazu> jarek_: well, are the users creating the document from scratch?
943. # [19:56] <jarek_> there is already SVG-edit :P
944. # [19:56] <shepazu> i.e. can you keep track of what's created and used
945. # [19:56] <jarek_> http://i.imgur.com/ZqZME.png
946. # [19:58] <jarek_> shepazu: yeah, that would probably be the fastest approach
947. # [19:58] <shepazu> yup
948. # [19:58] <jarek_> shepazu: but it would not allow me to clean the gradients that were created by other authoring tools
949. # [19:58] <shepazu> true
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989. # [20:53] <batdorf> can't get ie9 to display the right color. can someone take a look? I'm kind of in a hurry :(
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1037. # [21:57] <dshap> hey all - i'm using canvas and trying to draw a rectangle with line width 1, but it seems to be missing a pixel in the upper right hand corner. any idea why this would happen or how i can go about fixing it?
1038. # [21:58] <dshap> i'm using context.rect(), as described here: http://www.html5canvastutorials.com/tutorials/html5-canvas-rectangles/
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1045. # [22:06] <David_Bradbury> Could you show an example of what you have on a live pasting service such as jsfiddle?
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1047. # [22:11] <dshap> David_Bradbury: i actually just realized that this is only happening in Chrome. not in Firefox
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1049. # [22:12] <dshap> David_Bradbury: i may try to solve by not using context.rect() and just forming a rectangle with 4 separate lines - can put on jsfiddle if still having issues, but just figured i'd ask if anyone here had encountered something similar before
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1054. # [22:14] <bencc> is it possible to make viewport metatag depend on media queries?
1055. # [22:15] <bencc> if the device has at least 1280 pixels, use the following viewport meta tag...
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1059. # [22:23] <Moo^_^> bencc: mobile devices handle dynamic viewports really badly
1060. # [22:23] <Moo^_^> especially older androids
1061. # [22:23] <Moo^_^> so probably not
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1063. # [22:24] <bencc> Moo^_^: if I have a screen with 1920x1080 I want it to use 3/2 ratio
1064. # [22:24] <bencc> so it'll be 1280x720
1065. # [22:24] <Moo^_^> bencc: you cannot do that with viewport
1066. # [22:24] <bencc> but if the screen has only 1024 (or 1024*2 like the ipad) I want to use 1024
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1068. # [22:24] <Moo^_^> bencc: do it other means
1069. # [22:25] <bencc> how?
1070. # [22:25] <Moo^_^> bencc: please first take a step back and explain what you are doing and why
1071. # [22:25] <bencc> I'm building a web app
1072. # [22:26] <bencc> I have a chat panel on the left and the main window is in the center
1073. # [22:26] <bencc> the main window has to be the same width no matter what the screen size is = 1000 px
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1075. # [22:26] <bencc> so if I have 1280 screen, I'm putting the chat on the left
1076. # [22:27] <bencc> if I have 1024 screen, I'm putting the chat on the bottom like gmail chat
1077. # [22:27] <Moo^_^> bencc: what you are looking for is called responsive design
1078. # [22:28] <Moo^_^> and you can do that finely with normal CSS rules
1079. # [22:28] <Moo^_^> no need to have viewport involved
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1081. # [22:28] <bencc> Moo^_^: I also want to prevent the user from zooming
1082. # [22:28] <bencc> and that breaks the responsive design
1083. # [22:29] <Moo^_^> bencc: I am afraid you cannot do that
1084. # [22:29] <Moo^_^> bencc: just make your design such that it works regardless of zoom level
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1086. # [22:30] <bencc> ok. thanks
1087. # [22:30] <bencc> can I sniff the device size on the server?
1088. # [22:31] <bencc> maybe headers give me that info?
1089. # [22:31] <Moo^_^> bencc: you should not do that either
1090. # [22:31] <Moo^_^> bencc: and no, you cannot do that
1091. # [22:32] <Moo^_^> bencc: in a reliable manner
1092. # [22:32] <Moo^_^> bencc: if you need to have screen reactive rules you put them into CSS or Javascript
1093. # [22:32] <Moo^_^> not on the server
1094. # [22:33] <Moo^_^> by the HTML philosophy rendering is the concern of the browser, the client
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1096. # [22:33] <Moo^_^> if you are trying to fight against this you are probably doing something which has a better solution done by some other means
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1100. # [22:34] <bencc> ok
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1103. # [22:35] <Moo^_^> if you need a simple responsive design example here is one http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/examples/fluid.html
1104. # [22:36] <Moo^_^> just resize your browser to see the effect
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1132. # [23:20] <hex20dec> Can someone please explain to me how does google download and install their software automatically by me just clicking a button on their site? I don't recall seeing any other website do that https://tools.google.com/dlpage/drive/index.html?hl=en_US&pli=1#eula
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1139. # [23:28] <hex20dec> Anyone?
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1161. # [23:48] <s5fs> hex20dec: sorry, no idea
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1165. # [23:49] * hex20dec Sees a new message, runs to open it to get a clue or an answer and ends up getting "Sorry, no idea". Lol, it's all good.
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1174. # Session Close: Wed Dec 12 00:00:00 2012

The end :)