/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2013-01-15 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jan 15 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  64. # [01:19] <damian_^> hi, is there a channel for php help?
  65. # [01:19] <damian_^> or can i ask here
  66. # [01:20] <damian_^> html5 and friends... is friends php
  67. # [01:22] <llamapixel> isnt there a #php ?
  68. # [01:22] <llamapixel> looks like 533 members in there
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  70. # [01:23] <damian_^> its invite only...
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  72. # [01:23] <llamapixel> I just joined it
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  75. # [01:23] <damian_^> or could it just be saying that because im not authed
  76. # [01:23] <llamapixel> aye
  77. # [01:23] <damian_^> im not registered on freenode
  78. # [01:23] <llamapixel> ...
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  82. # [01:25] <damian_^> ok, i joined ##php and its saying im not registered. too easy ill go do that. :)
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  103. # [01:58] <d3m0n> So the greate debate, to use section or article. I have an ecommerce site, neither a blog or news site. The front page being header, footer and product descriptions in the middle. From what I understand <section> would be the appropriate tag for this type of content, correct?
  104. # [01:59] * kevvaoff is now known as kevva
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  106. # [01:59] <d3m0n> "...A Web site's home page could be split into sections for an introduction, news items, and contact information." Would product info be included in this?
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  136. # [02:06] * d3m0n crickets
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  255. # [05:16] <thatryan> so, microformats...
  256. # [05:17] <thatryan> why are they called hcard, hcalendar etc, but the classes are vcard, vcalendar...?
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  465. # [11:34] <lapdis> hai
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  525. # [13:22] <lapdis> how do I html5 exactly?
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  527. # [13:26] <llamapixel> some people start with a boilerplate, others take their time and read a lot of material lapdis http://html5boilerplate.com/
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  588. # [15:14] <Quest> how do i make the menu items change background picture automatically detecting which the current page is. example is http://open-pages.com/Alpinema/ theres already a img-nav-active.png img class="img-active"
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  615. # [15:59] <popof_> when you goup all of your icons in one image file, what's that called again
  616. # [15:59] <popof_> group
  617. # [15:59] <imacinto> sprite
  618. # [15:59] <drdoe> sprites
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  620. # [15:59] <popof_> great thanks
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  803. # [19:12] <daanavitch> Does anyone have experience with creating desktop applications with HTML technologies?
  804. # [19:13] <Jon47> i made a dashboard widget in osx years ago, that's sort of on the desktop..
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  807. # [19:15] <David_Bradbury> Why do you ask?
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  812. # [19:16] <daanavitch> That's not what I'm looking for
  813. # [19:16] <popof_> daanavitch: well.. I do native mobile with web tech
  814. # [19:16] <popof_> daanavitch: but not desktop
  815. # [19:16] <daanavitch> I want to create a desktop application for windows and Mac OS X
  816. # [19:16] <popof_> daanavitch: Well okay rude fellow
  817. # [19:16] <daanavitch> and I don't know C++, so doing it with HTML seems like the best option
  818. # [19:17] <Jon47> it's sort of an odd question - you can certainly make an offline web app
  819. # [19:17] <David_Bradbury> What is this application going to do and what is your question about it?
  820. # [19:18] <daanavitch> I tried out some wrappers today, like Appjs and node-webkit, but they all show the source code when you click show package contents on Mac :(
  821. # [19:18] <daanavitch> just a simple presentation application, nothing too big
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  824. # [19:18] <popof_> he wants to compile natively. he can google.
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  829. # [19:19] <daanavitch> @popof_ I googled around all day, can't seem to find anything that doesn't give away source code
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  831. # [19:21] <David_Bradbury> If you want, you can just obfuscate your JS
  832. # [19:22] <David_Bradbury> YUI, Google Clsoure, and Uglify all have options to make it very difficult to take your code back apart.
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  834. # [19:24] <daanavitch> @David_Bradbury Thanks, but the application won't include much Javascript, it will mostly be static HTML
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  836. # [19:25] <David_Bradbury> HTML isn't worth hiding or stealing
  837. # [19:26] <daanavitch> I think I found a solution, I'm going to try Adobe AIR
  838. # [19:27] <tw2113> *steals David_Bradbury's html*
  839. # [19:27] <daanavitch> I just found out it's possible to create AIR apps that don't require an Adobe AIR install
  840. # [19:27] <daanavitch> and I think it's closed source
  841. # [19:28] <David_Bradbury> Look, up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! Oh wait... Nope, just all the fucks I give :D
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  843. # [19:31] <fritzy> :|
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  848. # [19:34] <David_Bradbury> @_@
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  853. # [19:37] <Jon47> one of the greatest advantages of web technologies is interoperability
  854. # [19:37] <Jon47> I'm pretty sure Air apps can be decompiled
  855. # [19:38] <Jon47> http://www.sothink.com/product/flashdecompiler/index.htm
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  857. # [19:38] <Jon47> if you're worried about someone technologically inclined enough to view source in your app, i think you'd also need to consider this
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  859. # [19:40] <nogul> hi
  860. # [19:40] <David_Bradbury> If we really want to go at it, even compiling in C and the like isn't going to fully protect your source if someone is determined. That said, protecting my HTML is the last thing I'd ever worry about
  861. # [19:40] <nogul> Is there a standard for creating a perfectly semantical clock using html5?
  862. # [19:41] <David_Bradbury> There is a standard for HTML5 elements, and you can use these elements to create a semantic 'clock' in HTML5.
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  864. # [19:41] <David_Bradbury> There is no spec defining how to create a clock in HTML5 however
  865. # [19:41] <nogul> I tried it with div,span and progress but it doesn't look very semantically appealing. to much bloat. And I don't know about the uses of time <time>
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  867. # [19:44] <Jon47> <time> would be the way to go
  868. # [19:44] <Jon47> last I heard, if you set the "datetime" attribute on it, anything markup that goes inside is fair game
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  878. # [19:59] <nogul> Jon47 David_Bradbury this is my current markup which sucks badly, but it creates following output https://f.cloud.github.com/assets/84343/8385/e9ea2eae-4471-11e2-99d8-ca2764eca931.png
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  883. # [19:59] <nogul> eh sorry here's the html http://jsfiddle.net/tnWmd/
  884. # [20:00] <Ringtailed-Fox> hiya, guys! i get an odd error regarding DNS when i add a second-life link to my webpage... is there a way to have that link present but still pass HTML5 verification?>
  885. # [20:00] <Jon47> if you're worried about semantics, use the <time> element and set the datetime attribute according to the spec
  886. # [20:01] <nogul> hmm could you give me an example I've not found a good example usage of <time> except many examples for blogposts
  887. # [20:01] <nogul> Jon47 ^^
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  890. # [20:04] <Jon47> just look it up dog, it should be really easy
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  893. # [20:04] <nogul> Jon47: I think if there wasn't the issue of semantic meaning everything on the web would be very easy for the w3c :P
  894. # [20:05] <Jon47> lmgtfy: "html5 time element"
  895. # [20:05] <Jon47> first hit is a solid article that gives clear examples
  896. # [20:05] <Jon47> MDN is also a really good resource, so i'm sure there's good stuff in the 4th hit as well
  897. # [20:06] <Jon47> the WHATWG comes up with the standards, so the 3rd hit probably has ALL the info you'd ever need, though maybe not in the most practical format for implementation
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  901. # [20:09] <nogul> Jon47: but <time> is JUST getting dropped by the whatwg did you know?
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  903. # [20:10] <nogul> eh.. just read that someone reintroduced it after it beeing removed xD
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  905. # [20:10] <nogul> Jon47: here's what they currently have though http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/text-level-semantics.html#the-data-element
  906. # [20:11] <Jon47> you could also check out microformats
  907. # [20:11] <Jon47> if the spec is so volatile then i wouldn't sweat it, it's not going to be any use to a disabled web user until the standard gels
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  912. # [20:13] <nogul> Jon47: that's html5/css3 code that I am using for a kde4 widget I am using
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  915. # [20:14] <nogul> still the problem of a semantic clock raised my interest, but I've not found a standardized or even appropriate microformat for a css styleable clcok
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  926. # [20:18] <tantek> nogul - <time> element is fine, since a clock merely represents a single instance of the time
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  928. # [20:18] <Jon47> nogul you saw this: http://microformats.org/wiki/html5#time_element
  929. # [20:19] <tantek> ah, I should update that article
  930. # [20:19] <tantek> wiki page
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  946. # [20:38] <nogul> tantek: hi, yeah I think adding a link to another article, or to the modified microformat version of the w3c would be helpful
  947. # [20:39] <tantek> nogul, Jon47, also for marking up HTML semantics in general, you might have better luck asking in #microformats
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  949. # [20:39] <nogul> funny how the web reinvents itself again and again, kind of like a fractal
  950. # [20:40] <nogul> tantek: aren't microformats replaced by rdf in the long term?
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  952. # [20:40] <tantek> nogul - other way around ;)
  953. # [20:40] <nogul> hehehe
  954. # [20:40] <tantek> since microformats are simpler and handle the cases that actually matter on the real web
  955. # [20:41] <tantek> especially now that we have microformats2 - which has an even simpler syntax
  956. # [20:41] <tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2
  957. # [20:41] <nogul> they wouldn't be neccessary if the w3c had more compact tags covering them though
  958. # [20:42] <tantek> real world technology A wouldn't be necessary if organization B had more theoretical technology C?
  959. # [20:42] <tantek> seems like a fallacious argument
  960. # [20:43] <tantek> nogul - plus, tags on elements are actually *worse* for semantic flexibility than class names
  961. # [20:43] <nogul> in the real world everything takes a decade to become a standard
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  964. # [20:43] <tantek> elements can only have one tag name
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  966. # [20:43] <tantek> elements can have multiple class names
  967. # [20:43] <nogul> or different attributes
  968. # [20:43] <tantek> so when you extend things, e.g. hNews is an extension of hAtom, you can do so with multiple class names
  969. # [20:43] <tantek> but you can't with tags
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  973. # [20:44] <nogul> if it was possible to style attributes and not only tags, then it would be easier
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  975. # [20:44] <tantek> nogul - in the real world, the standards track actual implementation, not theoretical standards put out by an organization
  976. # [20:45] <tantek> anyway - real world developers who've tried both microformats and rdf (or even microdata) typically don't bother with the latter afterwards. microformats are just so much easier to add to your markup, update etc.
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  978. # [20:45] <tantek> easier = more real world
  979. # [20:45] <nogul> trusting your words, you're as real as standards can ever become :)
  980. # [20:46] <tantek> nogul - unfortunately I have plenty of experience with bad standards too.
  981. # [20:46] <Jon47> but not every microformat is useful ;) http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-crush
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  983. # [20:47] <tantek> Jon47 - true. when the real world behaviors that microformats were based on subside, then the reasons for the microformats also subside. in this case, blog rolls are much less popular now than they were 10 years ago.
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  985. # [20:48] <Jon47> i love that it continues to evolve
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  999. # [20:56] <nogul> oh, I totally forgot that you can use css attribute selectors together with keyframes and transitions in order to reduce the html to a minimum
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  1041. # [21:42] <acidjazz> how do i easily start an animation for a class
  1042. # [21:42] <acidjazz> like .bob { top: 100px; } .bob:after { top: 200px; transition etc etc } ?
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  1047. # [21:56] <Jon47> acidjazz you do know that .bob::after is a pseudo-element and does not refer to an "after" time?
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  1052. # [21:59] <nogul> Jon47: he asked the same in #css already solved ;)
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  1058. # [22:03] <acidjazz> Jon47: yes i figured that out and found my answer
  1059. # [22:04] <acidjazz> Jon47: keyframes and fill-mode forwards
  1060. # [22:04] <acidjazz> oh and nogul helped :)
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  1130. # [23:18] <WeThePeople> a form in the anchor tag moves when i set the resolution differently, i have the form absolutely positioned, the form is a buy button from paypal, any ideas on how to fix this
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  1158. # [23:57] <d3m0n> So if I am reading HTML5shiv correctly it fixes only HTML5 content that is being appended by JS in IE browsers?
  1159. # [23:57] <d3m0n> So if a sites has no HTML5 elements being appended, there is no need for it?
  1160. # [23:57] <d3m0n> But has standard HTML5 elements on the page
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  1163. # Session Close: Wed Jan 16 00:00:00 2013

The end :)