/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2013-01-18 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Jan 18 00:00:01 2013
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:07] <shwaiil> hi
# [00:08] <shwaiil> Q: Any game developers around ? I'd like to start developing html 5 games, with javascript. 2D, non webGL. I wonder if there's some game engines I should take a look at! Thanks!
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# [00:11] <popof_> shwaiil: I did one that made > 40k purchases on apple... my thoughts is that html5 is overhyped for game dev. I also despise javascript unless I use google dart and x-compile
# [00:11] <tra> shwaiil: check out impact http://impactjs.com/
# [00:11] <popof_> shwaiil: what's the target platform? web, mobile?
# [00:12] <shwaiil> thanks for looking guys!
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# [00:12] <popof_> :/
# [00:12] <shwaiil> I'm a webdev and I do feel that html 5 for game dev is still very imature comparing with flash etc
# [00:13] <shwaiil> but I work in a agency and we may need to create a game
# [00:13] <shwaiil> we can get a flash dev, but I wouldn't mind learning
# [00:13] <shwaiil> I'm doing research and stuff. there's a few!
# [00:13] <popof_> shwaiil: picking up as3 is effortless id think
# [00:13] <popof_> shwaiil: do you know java?
# [00:13] <shwaiil> impactJs looks amazing, but isn't it tile based ?!
# [00:13] <obert_> html5 should be still far from gaming
# [00:13] <popof_> shwaiil: also the starling engine offers native level speed from flash -> native
# [00:13] <popof_> shwaiil: its amazing
# [00:14] <shwaiil> I did one actionscript game
# [00:14] <tra> i've done one simple 2d jump-and-run game with ImpactJS.
# [00:14] <tra> fairly easy to learn and has a nice world editor
# [00:15] <tra> basic physics, collision detection
# [00:15] <popof_> I made a physics engine
# [00:15] <shwaiil> but was very basic though
# [00:15] <popof_> sorry unrelated but I always get a bonnar about this stuff
# [00:15] <obert_> if i want to do 'go back' should i use history api?
# [00:16] <shwaiil> the game I did using AS, I didn't actually had any knowledge or experience with AS, but since it was object oriented was fine
# [00:16] <llamapixel> bonnar? is like when a room has um-beyonce :)?
# [00:16] <popof_> obert_: for a simple "go back to the last page"?
# [00:16] <popof_> llamapixel: yeah
# [00:16] <obert_> popof_: yep
# [00:16] <llamapixel> hehe
# [00:16] <popof_> shwaiil: yeah exactly, syntax is identical to java
# [00:16] <shwaiil> popof_: I don't know java, I may learn it for android development. but for this year I want to make the best decision, learn java + android, or start doing html5 games
# [00:16] <popof_> obert_: then hell no. google javascript back
# [00:17] <obert_> popof_: i'm not sure i can do that server side, you can arrive to that page from two other pages
# [00:17] <popof_> shwaiil: well again... people hate on flash, but as3 with sparrow can do hardware acceleartion now
# [00:17] <popof_> obert_: write once deploy all
# [00:17] <shwaiil> I'm already a web dev in my agency (it's very small), so I'm a one man band and you are human so.. you can't learn everything or know everything right ? so I'm doing research
# [00:17] <popof_> shwaiil: ^
# [00:17] <shwaiil> popof_: that's true
# [00:17] <obert_> popof_: js back if i dont remember bad it was bad since if you come from google it will redirect you to google :p
# [00:18] <shwaiil> popof_: but I think my boss want's the game to run in ipad etc : P
# [00:18] <shwaiil> i'm not a apple fan boy though but.. they all are
# [00:18] <popof_> shwaiil: exactly, but you can xcompile to native
# [00:18] <popof_> thats what im telling ya
# [00:18] <shwaiil> oh sorry I missed that
# [00:18] <popof_> "flash" as a runtime might be dead, but not as a dev tool
# [00:18] <shwaiil> xcompile to native
# [00:18] <shwaiil> to native... "ios" is that it ?!
# [00:19] <popof_> and have native performance, assuming you ditch flash's rendering model and use hardware acceleartion
# [00:19] <popof_> which starling makes effor
# [00:19] <popof_> tlesss*
# [00:19] <popof_> yeah native .ipa files
# [00:19] <David_Bradbury> Technically, the browser is able to run some impressive things. If you count some cheating, Bastion and quite a few commercial quality Unity games work in the browser
# [00:19] <tra> friend of mine works at Bugbear Entertainment and he made the latest Ridge Racers menus and hud with flash
# [00:19] <obert_> how should i use history api in a cool usefull way then?
# [00:19] <David_Bradbury> Angry Birds and a few others as well
# [00:19] <popof_> I made paper mario for gamecube run in browser
# [00:19] <popof_> via flash
# [00:19] <popof_> shwaiil: http://sketchsdk.com/demos/
# [00:19] <popof_> oops that was to all, not to shwail
# [00:19] <popof_> but I never finished it
# [00:19] <shwaiil> popof_: humm I didn't knew that. So... there's people selling games for the iPhone and stuff that were actually coded in flash ?!
# [00:20] <popof_> shwaiil: including me, yes. again, > 40k purchases
# [00:20] <shwaiil> oh
# [00:20] <shwaiil> strange, I missed that
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# [00:21] <shwaiil> popof_: hummm I think I can pick up AS quiet fast. But that won't make me an amazing AS coder though
# [00:21] <shwaiil> I'll take a look in the IDE, not much into Flash IDE
# [00:21] <shwaiil> I remember there was a good open source ide
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# [00:22] <popof_> shwaiil: NO
# [00:22] <popof_> shwaiil: don't use flash ide, use flash builder
# [00:22] <popof_> its amazing
# [00:22] <popof_> oh
# [00:22] <popof_> oops read wrong
# [00:22] <shwaiil> fine ; )
# [00:22] <shwaiil> by the way, even though we understand html5 is not there yet http://flashjs.com/
# [00:22] <popof_> shwaiil: yeah go to gamua.com and read up on starling
# [00:22] <shwaiil> there's some interesting projects that use AS
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# [00:23] <popof_> shwaiil: so you start w/ the right practices in mind (ditching flash player's renderin)
# [00:23] <shwaiil> popof_: do you have a blog or something that I can follow ?
# [00:23] <shwaiil> you sound like you are a game dev
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# [00:24] <shwaiil> Starling Game Engine humm
# [00:24] <popof_> shwaiil: Ill PM you on another day. they day I link my real name handle to popof is the day I lose the freedom to ask stupid questions :P
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# [00:24] <shwaiil> ahahaha
# [00:25] <shwaiil> that's so true!!
# [00:25] <popof_> shwaiil: but again the sketch thing is a game engine I made, never published publicly
# [00:25] <popof_> the thing I posted above
# [00:25] <shwaiil> you must be good in physics and maths to create a game engine don't you ?
# [00:25] <shwaiil> it's not just being a "coder"
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# [00:27] <shwaiil> ow..flash builder is Flex
# [00:27] <popof_> aye, Im decent. did you see the demo? whole idea was to create 2.5d for things like mixed 3d 2d assets without having to fully render
# [00:27] <popof_> instead of 'yet another 3d engine'
# [00:29] <shwaiil> just a moment, i'm taking a look
# [00:29] <shwaiil> was just having a look in flash builder and try to understand how the..compile to native "ios" etc worked
# [00:30] <shwaiil> i'm right now taking a look in your demo thanks = )
# [00:30] <shwaiil> just a sec
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# [00:31] <shwaiil> LOL AWESOME
# [00:32] <shwaiil> you created your own game engine...wow!
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# [00:33] <shwaiil> There's so many html5 game engines coming out and so many people claiming that that's the way to go, that I feel that learning AS is just wasting time in a technology that will disapear
# [00:34] <shwaiil> but the things you are showing to me, is something new, I wasn't aware of
# [00:36] <popof_> the people that say that dont know what they are talking about
# [00:36] <popof_> they hear "flash has problems and is being replaced" which is true
# [00:36] <popof_> but they think flash dev has died
# [00:36] <popof_> theres a huge difference
# [00:37] <lunchtime> The thing about flash dev
# [00:37] <lunchtime> is adobe's gearing it to app development
# [00:37] <llamapixel> people also consider flash as only interactive but we use it for more areas then that
# [00:37] <lunchtime> it is a very powerful platform
# [00:37] <lunchtime> :d
# [00:37] <popof_> aye, more and more conferences are focused on RIAs and games
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# [00:37] <llamapixel> or they blame flash for video compression on the older desktop
# [00:37] <shwaiil> so will we have Flash to Html5 ?
# [00:38] <llamapixel> swiffy
# [00:38] <shwaiil> I mean... eventually
# [00:38] <llamapixel> https://www.google.com/doubleclick/studio/swiffy/
# [00:38] <llamapixel> been out for a year or so
# [00:38] <popof_> sure, with canvas anything is possible
# [00:38] <popof_> yeah its not so good though
# [00:38] <llamapixel> the code is hard to read but it does a decent job
# [00:38] <popof_> no viable solution exists yet.
# [00:38] <popof_> what is adobes official one
# [00:38] <popof_> had a cool name
# [00:39] <llamapixel> ?
# [00:39] <llamapixel> everyone misses part of the equation :)
# [00:39] <shwaiil> What explains this boom on HTML5 Game Engines ?
# [00:39] <popof_> no, performance sucks and limitations are rife
# [00:39] <popof_> you might as well just do html5 directly
# [00:39] <popof_> given the limitations when you're making it
# [00:40] <popof_> as well as the resulting app
# [00:40] <llamapixel> shwaiil: game-a-fication of content is a new area of marketing derp
# [00:40] <popof_> shwaiil: people understand its the new standard
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# [00:40] <popof_> a non-proprietary rich standard. sounds amazing
# [00:40] <popof_> not so amzing :p
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# [00:41] <shwaiil> ..or maybe because of that letter that steve jobs wrote about flash
# [00:41] <NoSu010> has any one got voice / mic stuff working in HTML5
# [00:41] <llamapixel> use one of my really old flash samples for swiffy if you need a tester
# [00:41] <llamapixel> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3053655/manic_traffic.swf
# [00:41] <NoSu010> I have Canary Chrome and audio enabled but no-ones samples seem to work
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# [00:42] <NoSu010> with the dalek bbc audio sample I was able to get an allow mic usage dialog popup but it still didnt work after the allow
# [00:42] <NoSu010> and dont get that pop up with other samples
# [00:42] <NoSu010> http://webaudio.prototyping.bbc.co.uk/ring-modulator/
# [00:43] <llamapixel> isnt chrome ahead of the pack for the audio record stuff?
# [00:43] <NoSu010> you have to use the konami code to enable mic use on that site
# [00:43] <NoSu010> ↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A
# [00:43] <barryhjames> Having an issue using SVG for a logo. It shows up on the website fine, but when I try to give it a width, it diapers. Any ideas? I am embedding it using the object tag and pointing to it using the data attribute.
# [00:44] <shwaiil> I guess flash builder doesn't work under linux
# [00:44] <llamapixel> just use a graphic, svg wont work on every browser still out there and that is a critical element to a business impression
# [00:44] <llamapixel> http://caniuse.com/svg
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# [00:45] <llamapixel> gif first, png if you gotta, jpg as the last option
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# [00:46] <shwaiil> http://www.flashdevelop.org/
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# [00:46] <shwaiil> opensource ide for flash
# [00:46] <barryhjames> llamapixel: Hmm, I don't know if I agree with that. It is working on Chrome because it is showing up, just not resizing properly.
# [00:46] <llamapixel> I wouldn't hire you barry lol
# [00:47] <shwaiil> ow... flashdev obviously doesn't compile to ios and android
# [00:47] <shwaiil> If Flash Builder compiles to iOs or Android, why do game companies contract iOs devs instead ?
# [00:48] <barryhjames> llamapixel: You just showed me a chart that says it works in all browsers except IE8 and below. You don't have much of an argument going.
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# [00:49] <llamapixel> bla bla bla
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# [00:52] <popof_> shwaiil: because not everyone knows how to utilize flash builder w/ sparrow and stil get native performance
# [00:52] <popof_> shwaiil: and theres a huge number of obj c devs
# [00:52] <popof_> shwaiil: using flash as a viable native tool is, like this year
# [00:53] <popof_> 2012 I mean
# [00:53] <shwaiil> popof_: I found a mention that it's not actually native but AIR, meaning that we need to install air ?!
# [00:53] <shwaiil> yeah, I'm seeing your point and i'm interested
# [00:53] <shwaiil> just making sure I fully understand what I'm putting myself into
# [00:53] <popof_> shwaiil: no, not true, see the gamua.com articles
# [00:53] <popof_> itll go over everything
# [00:53] <popof_> then mkae your choice
# [00:54] <shwaiil> oh sorry
# [00:54] <popof_> sorry, starling**** not sparrow
# [00:54] <popof_> I am tired as balls
# [00:54] <shwaiil> popof_: to compile to native, can I use the open source FlashDeveloper instead of Adobe FLash Builder ?
# [00:55] <popof_> sure
# [00:55] <popof_> shwaiil: again... gamua articles
# [00:55] <shwaiil> oh ok
# [00:55] <shwaiil> sorry
# [00:55] <popof_> no worries
# [00:55] <popof_> I like flash builder as of late, hated flex
# [00:55] <popof_> its based on eclipse
# [00:55] <popof_> btw
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# [00:59] <shwaiil> I guess I'dont have a different choice really. FlashDeveloper runs only in windows
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# [01:02] <shwaiil> "...this document does not require any knowledge about Flash (that's the plan, at least)."
# [01:02] <shwaiil> Great : )
# [01:03] <popof_> shwaiil: if you go this route, youll come out a sufficient java developer as well. also, learning standard practices of GPU efficiency, and sprite sheets and shit
# [01:03] <popof_> shwaiil: since starling forces you to do graphics in the style of hardware
# [01:04] <popof_> shwaiil: rather than just drawing whatever you please in flash ide
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# [01:04] <shwaiil> Great! popof_ any other readings that are importat so I can start developing games ?
# [01:04] <shwaiil> I'm definitely going to get a AS3 ebook tomorrow to refresh my memory
# [01:04] <popof_> shwaiil: citrusengine.com is worth a shot, its open source and uses starling
# [01:05] <shwaiil> Thank you : )
# [01:05] <popof_> shwaiil: but its verbose as fuck
# [01:05] <popof_> overkill
# [01:05] <popof_> but very nicely designed
# [01:05] <popof_> nice code
# [01:05] <popof_> shwaiil: book wise
# [01:05] <popof_> shwaiil: i have books.
# [01:05] <popof_> sec
# [01:05] <popof_> no doubt get the starling free ebook
# [01:05] <shwaiil> wait... citrusengine is a game engine
# [01:05] <shwaiil> starling is a game engine
# [01:06] <popof_> shwaiil: no
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# [01:06] <popof_> shwaiil: starling is a, well, app engine
# [01:06] <shwaiil> starling is what I can call a framework
# [01:07] <popof_> yes
# [01:07] <shwaiil> on top of it, I can work with a game engine like the one you mentioned
# [01:07] <popof_> its a bridge between as3 and direct GPU access
# [01:07] <popof_> it abstracts the ideas of drawing polys
# [01:07] <shwaiil> for a started, being very verbose, is that the best choice I can make, start using citrus ? = )
# [01:07] <popof_> shwaiil: essential actionscript 3.0 is very goo dbook
# [01:07] <popof_> shwaiil: no I mean just take a look at citrus, copy what you need.
# [01:07] <popof_> lets jump to PM so as to not flood channel
# [01:07] <shwaiil> popof_: I think I still have that. I had the rhino book from oreally for javascript and the essential as3
# [01:08] <shwaiil> I think it's fine, other people may benefit from this chat
# [01:08] <shwaiil> I guess
# [01:08] <popof_> true enough
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# [02:28] <jpfarias> hi there!
# [02:28] <jpfarias> is there a way to make a <a> tag always open in a new window instead of opening in a new tab?
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# [02:30] <shwaiil> isn't the "new tab" a "new window" ? I guess that what we understand as old "new window" is now a instance of your browser opening the url
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# [02:31] <shwaiil> so my answer is I don't think you can jpfarias
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# [02:31] <jpfarias> shwaiil: hey
# [02:31] <jpfarias> so
# [02:31] <jpfarias> I figured how to do that with javascript
# [02:31] <jpfarias> but not with just html
# [02:31] <jpfarias> basically
# [02:31] <shwaiil> stick with js
# [02:31] <jpfarias> window.open(url, "_blank", "x=1")
# [02:32] <jpfarias> where x can be anything
# [02:32] <jpfarias> pops a new window instead of a new tab
# [02:32] <shwaiil> I see
# [02:32] <jpfarias> window.open(url, "_blank")
# [02:32] <jpfarias> pops a new tab
# [02:32] <jpfarias> at least that is the chrome behaviour
# [02:32] <shwaiil> yeah that's how the browser interprets _blank nowadays
# [02:32] <shwaiil> should be identical in others
# [02:33] <shwaiil> jsfiddle I can test in FF
# [02:33] <shwaiil> under linux
# [02:33] <jpfarias> it is just insane that I would need js for such a simple thing like that
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# [06:08] <jroes> hey guys, trying to drag some place kittens into a list with html5 dragndrop but I can't get the drop event to fire. am I doing it wrong? http://jsfiddle.net/h8Fk7/11/
# [06:10] * wolfgang42 looks at jroes's jsfiddle
# [06:10] <jroes> thanks wolfgang42 :)
# [06:12] <wolfgang42> TypeError: document.getElementById(...) is null
# [06:12] <wolfgang42> document.getElementById('#kitten-list').addEventListener('drop', drop, false);
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# [06:12] <popof_> is this font discrepancy normal between win and mac? http://i.imgur.com/AXmtu.jpg
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# [06:13] <jroes> sorry
# [06:13] <jroes> that was a recent change
# [06:13] <jroes> http://jsfiddle.net/h8Fk7/12/
# [06:14] <wolfgang42> Aha! jroes: for document.getelementbyid() don't use #
# [06:14] <jroes> yeah, just fixed that ;) still not firing event! :x
# [06:14] <wolfgang42> Oh
# [06:14] * wolfgang42 looks at /12/
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# [06:15] <wolfgang42> Darn, and I thought I had it
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# [06:19] <wolfgang42> Sorry jroes, I don't know enough jquery/Drag'n'drop to help you :-(
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# [07:41] <Lee-Lee> Would this be considered correct use of <section> : http://pastebin.com/HwDsaXrf ?
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# [10:17] <ecraven> is there a way to create two radio buttons that allow me to select one, the other, or none without javascript?
# [10:17] <ecraven> (i.e. a way to deselect a selected radio-button)
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# [10:26] <popof_> ecraven: you want checkboxes then
# [10:26] <popof_> ecraven: radio buttons have
# [10:26] <popof_> ecraven: by, rule, one and only one option
# [10:26] <popof_> ecraven: or a 'none' option
# [10:26] <ecraven> ok, then i'll just put a click action on each checkbox de-selecting the other one?
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# [10:27] <popof_> yeah, but I would use a filled in checkbox rather than an actual checkmark. picture a smaller black square within the checkbox
# [10:27] <popof_> ecraven: for UI purposes
# [10:28] <popof_> ecraven: you sure it doesnt just make sense to have a third 'No thanks' option?
# [10:28] <popof_> for radio
# [10:29] <ecraven> no, the checkboxes are for "i want this" or "i want that". this and that are exclusive. it seems strange to force an extra checkbox for "i want nothing"
# [10:30] <popof_> I don't think users will 'get' that they can deselct by clicking again. that's hardly ever the case with single-choice-only ui
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# [10:30] <ecraven> well, it's all checkboxes, isn't it logical to deselect by clicking on a selected box?
# [10:31] <ecraven> (you were entirely correct that radio buttons are not a good idea)
# [10:31] <popof_> yes but the moment one checkbox switches off another
# [10:31] <popof_> its no longer a tradiitonal checkbox
# [10:31] <popof_> its a radio button
# [10:31] <popof_> that happenes to look like a checkbox
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# [16:00] <julienim> Hi. IE 9 and 10 won't play my mp4 file in my video tag. Why ? http://pastebin.com/6wGL0svT
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# [16:00] <julienim> (it works fine in Chrome and FF)
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# [16:58] <Jon47> julienim: according to http://caniuse.com/#search=mp4 it should work in IE but not FF
# [16:58] <Jon47> oh i see, you got the webm and ogg fallbacks
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# [17:08] <julienim> in fact I think I have a problem with mp4 codec because I try a page with mp4 video in IE and it works. I don't know how convert it correctly
# [17:08] <Jon47> julienim: do you know what compression format you used for the mp4?
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# [17:09] <julienim> I llok
# [17:09] <julienim> *look
# [17:09] <Jon47> it's kind of thorny but I think mp4 is a container format as well as a video format?
# [17:09] <Jon47> apparently housing an h.264 encoded video in an mp4 will theoretically work in IE9 and 10
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# [17:10] <Jon47> could be wrong about that, haven't played around w/ it much
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# [17:11] <julienim> I've encoded video in format h.264 unsuccessfully
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# [17:24] <prometh> hi
# [17:24] <prometh> <time datetime="20:00-05:00">8pm</time>
# [17:24] <prometh> Bad value 10:00-05:00 for attribute datetime on element time: The literal did not satisfy the time-datetime format.
# [17:24] <prometh> is this error caused by an outdated html5 validator, or am i using datetime incorrectly?
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# [17:31] <tw2113_too> prometh, http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-preview/Overview.html#datetime-value
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# [17:33] <prometh> thank you
# [17:33] <prometh> so, i can't put a time with a time zone?
# [17:33] <prometh> without having a date?
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# [17:36] <prometh> tw2113: thank you... so i can't put a time with a timezone without having a prefixed date?
# [17:36] <tw2113> *shrug* i haven't looked at this attribute closely
# [17:36] <prometh> ok
# [17:36] <tw2113> i had a hunch that it was maybe how you formatted it
# [17:37] <prometh> yeah.. thanks for that doc.. i hadn't found htat one
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# [17:43] <Pomax> interesting problem. I have a js library that constructs a DOM tree to verify that the webpage source code someone wrote is okay, rather than broken. But this DOM tree will automatically start loading and playing things like <img>, <audio> and <video>.
# [17:44] <Pomax> what would be a way to build a DOM tree that doesn't cause that to happen?
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# [17:44] <wolfgang42> Set items to not autoplay somehow?
# [17:45] <wolfgang42> How does it construct the tree?
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# [17:50] <Pomax> createElement, with createAttribute for attributes, added to the attributes container using .setNamedItem
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# [18:30] <paulrouget> Pomax: don't attach the root element to the document?
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# [18:37] <Pomax> paulrouget: we already don't, which is the annoying part. just building the audio/video element and setting a src makes the browser load the content.
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# [18:39] <paulrouget> Really?
# [18:39] <paulrouget> I am very surprised.
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# [18:40] <paulrouget> interesting :)
# [18:41] <paulrouget> maybe you could build a non-HTML DOM?
# [18:42] <paulrouget> with createElementNS()
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# [18:42] <paulrouget> Pomax: ^
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# [18:44] <Pomax> yeah we spent a while figuring out why the heck audio was playing twice. we have some createElementNS for embedded SVG, maybe we can hoist audio/video over to the "needs namespace" element set, rather than the namespaceless one...
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# [18:45] <paulrouget> if you care only about the DOM tree, you could use a non-existing name space for all your nodes
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# [18:46] <Pomax> will try.
# [18:46] <Pomax> to demonstrate: var av = document.createElement("audio"); av.type="audio/mp3"; av.src="http://robtowns.com/music/blind_willie.mp3"; av.setAttribute("autoplay",true)
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# [18:46] <Pomax> this will immediately start playing, even though it's not in the DOM
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# [18:47] <Pomax> though maybe we should just intercept the autoplay attribute instead.
# [18:47] <paulrouget> and not setting autoplay would be an option?
# [18:47] <paulrouget> yeah...
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# [23:49] <WeThePeople> how do i stop text from line breaking when the resolution changes
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# Session Close: Sat Jan 19 00:00:00 2013

The end :)