/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2013-03-26 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Mar 26 00:00:00 2013
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [01:14] <xp_prg> is it possible to convert an image or vector svg to html5 css3 etc... ?
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# [01:16] <DrShoggoth> xp_prg: http://raphaeljs.com/
# [01:16] <DrShoggoth> html5 has svg support built in
# [01:17] <DrShoggoth> http://www.w3schools.com/html/html5_svg.asp
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# [01:17] <xp_prg> hmm... well, I want to tween between images in a certain duration, what is the best way to do that?
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# [01:25] <xp_prg> shoot, mobile only supports css3 animations :(
# [01:25] <xp_prg> I have the stupidest question on earth, what is the easiest way to make a css3 image?
# [01:27] <moo-_-> xp_prg: there is no CSS3 images
# [01:27] <moo-_-> xp_prg: there are only images browser can show
# [01:27] <moo-_-> CSS3 doesn't care in what format they are
# [01:28] <xp_prg> moo-_- I want the image to be appriximated with css3 markup, for example like vector graphics converted to css3
# [01:28] <xp_prg> kind of like how flash works
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# [01:28] <moo-_-> xp_prg: you are doing it wrong
# [01:28] <moo-_-> or
# [01:28] <moo-_-> sane conversions do not exist
# [01:28] <moo-_-> xp_prg: either use SVG, or h264 video
# [01:29] <xp_prg> moo please have an open mind for a second, I can't use svg on mobile
# [01:29] <moo-_-> xp_prg: or build your HTML5 animation from the scratch with HTML5 animation tools (which might have somewhat working Flash import)
# [01:29] <moo-_-> xp_prg: yes
# [01:29] <xp_prg> I can make a picture with css3 can I not?
# [01:29] <moo-_-> xp_prg: and you cannot use flash either
# [01:29] <moo-_-> xp_prg: it is not made for the purpose you think you are
# [01:29] <moo-_-> xp_prg: but
# [01:29] <moo-_-> this might help you
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# [01:30] <moo-_-> http://tumult.com/hype/
# [01:30] <moo-_-> it's a studio to create HTML5 animations
# [01:30] <moo-_-> which bundle SVG; CSS, JS, you-name-it
# [01:30] <moo-_-> but if you have an existing animation there is no conversion besides to h264 video
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# [01:31] <xp_prg> moo lets say I want to make a box, I can do that in css3 can I not?
# [01:31] <moo-_-> xp_prg: you can
# [01:31] <xp_prg> well I don't want to do that manually, I want to draw and have it just convert to css3
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# [01:31] <xp_prg> is there such a thing?
# [01:31] <moo-_-> xp_prg: no
# [01:31] * xp_prg cries
# [01:32] <moo-_-> xp_prg: go to the link above, spend your 60 USD and see what you get
# [01:32] <moo-_-> it's probably near draw animation approach
# [01:32] <moo-_-> or Macromedia Studio in designer language
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# [01:33] <xp_prg> moo can't css3 draw a colored line from one place to the other?
# [01:34] <moo-_-> xp_prg: no
# [01:34] <xp_prg> it can't?!!!
# [01:34] <moo-_-> NO!
# [01:34] <xp_prg> well I know it can draw a box can it not?
# [01:34] <moo-_-> xp_prg: CSS3 is made for styling HTML elements
# [01:34] <moo-_-> like
# [01:34] <moo-_-> do you know CSS?
# [01:34] <xp_prg> ya
# [01:34] <moo-_-> ok
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# [01:34] <moo-_-> then you know CSS3
# [01:34] <moo-_-> that's it
# [01:35] <moo-_-> you can have box with rounded corners. You could not have rounded corners with CSS2
# [01:35] <moo-_-> you can make it blink
# [01:35] <moo-_-> or even shake funnily
# [01:35] <moo-_-> but
# [01:35] <moo-_-> no line
# [01:35] <moo-_-> no circle
# [01:35] <xp_prg> moo, please be more open minded then your being, I am not explaining it write, I want to convert a vector image to html5 using css3, and html, is that not possible?
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# [01:35] <moo-_-> no whatever
# [01:35] <moo-_-> xp_prg: final no
# [01:35] <moo-_-> xp_prg: you. are. doing. it. wrong.
# [01:35] <moo-_-> xp_prg: well sorry
# [01:35] <moo-_-> not quite
# [01:35] <xp_prg> mooo *sigh* yes I can do this, you just don't want me to
# [01:35] <moo-_-> you can do it HTML + CSS
# [01:35] <xp_prg> right!
# [01:35] <moo-_-> but it probably outputs SVG in any case
# [01:36] <moo-_-> xp_prg: try the studio application given in the above link
# [01:36] <xp_prg> anyway, do you see what I am trying to say?
# [01:36] <moo-_-> xp_prg: yes
# [01:36] <xp_prg> so, is there such a tool to take a vector image and convert it to html/css?
# [01:36] <moo-_-> xp_prg: no
# [01:36] <moo-_-> xp_prg: how fucking hard is it to get?
# [01:37] <llamapixel> Illustrator and inkscape can export to pure svg but not really css
# [01:37] <moo-_-> xp_prg: now, let's stop thinking for a while
# [01:37] <xp_prg> moo you just said I could do it
# [01:37] <xp_prg> but I have to do it manually
# [01:37] <llamapixel> There are a lot of online generators if you fear working it on your own by plotting out the code.
# [01:37] <moo-_-> xp_prg: what you are missing is a concept how HTML and CSS and all that HTML5 bling bling fir together
# [01:37] <moo-_-> xp_prg: you can animate <img> elements
# [01:38] <moo-_-> where artwork comes from somewhere
# [01:38] <xp_prg> moo you can animate css without any images
# [01:38] <moo-_-> now let's assume you have a vector image, you can use it as a source to <img> as long you convert it to bitmap
# [01:38] <llamapixel> This semi editable editor online can produce a decent rounded rectangle if this is what you are on about http://css3please.com/
# [01:38] <moo-_-> and then you can make those <img>s fly around
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# [01:38] <xp_prg> I don't want to convert to a bitmap or image though, only html and css
# [01:38] <moo-_-> xp_prg: there is no way do vector primitives like line, circle, etc. HTML5
# [01:38] <xp_prg> anyway, this is too hard for you, lets not discuss it more
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# [01:38] <moo-_-> so your vecor image cannot be converted HTML, or CSS
# [01:39] <moo-_-> you can make HTML5 animations together
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# [01:39] <moo-_-> with elements like <img>
# [01:39] <xp_prg> moo yes I can and your wrong
# [01:39] <moo-_-> xp_prg: I have been HTML since it was 2.0, so I doubt
# [01:39] <llamapixel> do you have a demo of this mythical procedure then ;)?
# [01:39] <moo-_-> xp_prg: but please go ahead
# [01:39] <llamapixel> Are you confusing inline css as html5?
# [01:40] <xp_prg> one sec
# [01:40] <xp_prg> http://themegamag.com/coding/css-coding/drawing-with-css3-tips/
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# [01:41] <llamapixel> style sheets are not part of the HTML5 base :) they are in unison but different things
# [01:41] <moo-_-> xp_prg: it's clever usage of rounded corner box
# [01:41] <moo-_-> xp_prg: but nothign you can use for your lines and stuff
# [01:41] <xp_prg> too hard, I give up
# [01:41] <xp_prg> you guys are crazy
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# [01:42] <llamapixel> frustration is the sign of ignorance
# [01:42] <moo-_-> xp_prg: no, we are actually people who make HTML5 for you
# [01:42] <moo-_-> well... we are little bit crazy
# [01:42] <xp_prg> you can't fathom what I am talking about
# [01:42] <moo-_-> but we are best you can get
# [01:42] <xp_prg> I even showed you an example and that was not good enough
# [01:42] <xp_prg> amazing
# [01:43] <llamapixel> I came in late to the problem but it appears you are confusing elements of the languages
# [01:43] <llamapixel> This is a page that demonstrates animations for css http://daneden.me/animate/ are you looking for animations and or just rectangles with rounded corners?
# [01:44] <xp_prg> here is a demo of animating such things as well: http://www.impressivewebs.com/demo-files/css3-animated-scene/
# [01:44] <xp_prg> I guess that doesn't exist either?
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# [01:44] <llamapixel> That is animation with cascading style sheets, that component is a parallel scripted language to html, two distinct different creatures
# [01:45] <llamapixel> Are you comprehending that aspect?
# [01:45] <moo-_-> xp_prg: yes, but as you can see it's still boxes with rounded corners
# [01:45] * xp_prg puts a gun in his mouth
# [01:45] <moo-_-> it's not how CSS3 animations where designed to use, see llamapixel pixel link for that
# [01:46] <moo-_-> it would be very, very, difficult to shove arbitrary vector input for that
# [01:46] <llamapixel> Can you ask the original question again in case I am missing something xp_prg ?
# [01:46] <xp_prg> it feels like a gun but moo and llamapixel tell me its really only a theoretical constrcut of a gun that is not complying with a standard definition of a gun
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# [01:46] <llamapixel> Getting frustrated doesnt help the student or the teacher to reach the goal
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# [01:46] <xp_prg> llamapixel can I convert a vector image to html/css
# [01:46] <moo-_-> llamapixel: he wants to convert some vector animation to CSS3 because mobile doesn't support SVG
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# [01:47] <xp_prg> that is the original question
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# [01:48] <llamapixel> Ahh ok so you could slowly build up the vector image in primitive css shapes that are layered on top of each other that produce a final shape which you then animate. The moon in that example is probably two shapes one background and one on top as a fast mask.
# [01:48] <xp_prg> exactly
# [01:48] <xp_prg> but supposedly I can't do that
# [01:48] <llamapixel> The complexity however will take some effort
# [01:48] <xp_prg> not if it is a simple vector iamge
# [01:49] <xp_prg> llamapixel thank God you finally understood now can you hold moo's hand to get him to understand
# [01:49] <llamapixel> You probably want to export as SVG, that will give you a coded roadmap you could work by
# [01:49] <xp_prg> it is possible to convert an svg to html/css
# [01:50] <llamapixel> Or find some program that converts SVG to a bundle of CSS, ignore the html element for now
# [01:50] <llamapixel> Once you have the shapes in place then consider the animated sequence
# [01:50] <xp_prg> well moo said I must have the html, that exporting to only css was IMPOSSIBLE
# [01:50] <xp_prg> I argued it wasn't impossible to no avail
# [01:50] <xp_prg> llamapixel that is what I am trying to find
# [01:50] <llamapixel> You need the html wrapped of course but you need to forget it in the first component to focus on getting the shape
# [01:50] <xp_prg> is there such a thing?
# [01:51] <xp_prg> llamapixel that is what I told moo but he said I was a stupid idiot fool
# [01:51] <llamapixel> moo might not have understood the question, abusing someone trying to help you for free isn't very wise for future relationships or help
# [01:51] <xp_prg> well I haven't abused him have I?
# [01:52] <xp_prg> he has abused me
# [01:52] <llamapixel> let it go mate
# [01:52] <xp_prg> I am only telling you what he told me
# [01:52] <llamapixel> not worth it
# [01:52] <xp_prg> ok :> (calming down, taking big breaths)
# [01:52] <xp_prg> anyway, does such a program exist?
# [01:52] <llamapixel> http://hansmuller-webkit.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/css-transform-origin-coming-to-svg.html looks like its in a primitive state but there may be better solutions then hand coding it
# [01:53] <xp_prg> I sure hope so, I am not a fan of hand coding such images
# [01:53] <scottkellum> xp_prg: this doesn’t generate pretty code but it might be the easiest means to an end: http://html.adobe.com/edge/animate/
# [01:54] <llamapixel> Adobe has a product that is on its way but its partly javascript and html etc
# [01:55] <llamapixel> http://www.hippostudios.co/?S=Animator another one untested
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# [01:55] <llamapixel> You should really try a test bed case on each one if you plan for a specific device
# [01:56] <llamapixel> This one looks OSX only http://tumult.com/hype/
# [01:56] <xp_prg> what about using this: http://app.maqetta.org/mixloginstatic/LoginWindow.html?redirect=../maqetta/ ?
# [01:56] <llamapixel> Another one http://www.mixeek.com/examples;jsessionid=B53F62A35EA07C4658123C3336090578
# [01:57] <llamapixel> I'd rather not login in to review it
# [01:57] <scottkellum> xp_prg: that one looks more like a UI kit and less of an animation kit.
# [01:57] <llamapixel> there are swf to html solutions as well like swiffy
# [01:58] <llamapixel> https://www.google.com/doubleclick/studio/swiffy/
# [01:58] <llamapixel> http://benjamin.smedbergs.us/blog/2012-11-12/shumway-a-swf-interpreter-entirely-in-javascript/
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# [02:00] <xp_prg> I wonder if I could use swiffy to convert an svg to css
# [02:01] <xp_prg> it would just be an swf with one frame for a duration of one
# [02:01] <llamapixel> Swiffy would do swf to scg and js
# [02:01] <llamapixel> svg
# [02:02] <llamapixel> If you take a shape in swf on its own and run it through you will end up with a pro-grammatical way of defining it and you could recode those shapes in css
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# [02:02] <xp_prg> maybe I will just convert the image to text :>
# [02:02] <xp_prg> anyway llamapixel you understand what I am trying to do and that it is possible and makes esne
# [02:02] <xp_prg> sense
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# [02:03] <llamapixel> You should probably say thanks to moo for trying to help you as well mate
# [02:03] <xp_prg> thanks moo
# [02:04] <llamapixel> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3053655/polystar.swf
# [02:04] <llamapixel> take that and run it in swiffy
# [02:04] <xp_prg> I don't have swiffy handy do you?
# [02:04] <llamapixel> https://swiffypreviews.googleusercontent.com/view/o/27cbcff4-fdd7-4680-b1fa-c82a3cc7c27e/polystar.html
# [02:04] <llamapixel> its free on that page
# [02:04] <llamapixel> the browse button converts in the page or standalone with the plugins in flash
# [02:05] <llamapixel> <path fill-opacity="1.000" fill="rgb(200,10,10)" stroke-opacity="1.000" stroke="rgb(51,51,51)" stroke-linejoin="round" stroke-linecap="round" stroke-width="20" d="M 3980 3820 L 2049 4277 L 1018 2582 L 2311 1077 L 4141 1842 L 3980 3820 Z">
# [02:05] <llamapixel> that is the shape in code
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# [02:05] <xp_prg> that doesn't look like css, is it?
# [02:06] <llamapixel> no as I said its svg and you would need to convert
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# [02:06] <xp_prg> wow check this out: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3862138/convert-svg-to-htmlcss
# [02:07] <llamapixel> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3862138/convert-svg-to-htmlcss
# [02:07] <llamapixel> same ;)
# [02:07] <llamapixel> getting closer
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# [02:07] <xp_prg> I absolutely knew this had to exist
# [02:07] <llamapixel> Your turn to see if it works ok
# [02:07] <xp_prg> I hope this is useful to you as well
# [02:07] <llamapixel> bbl
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# [02:40] <Matt_in_Chicago> Do me a solid and vote for our startup, made in DRUPAL 7 :D http://startup50.com/40-social-media-startups#comments
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# [02:53] <xp_prg> Matt which one is it?
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# [03:10] <llamapixel> xp_prg: any progress?
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# [03:19] <xp_prg> llamapixel I found this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcode.google.com%2Fp%2Fsvg-edit%2F&ei=6ARRUfSgFMbW2AWDsIHgCg&usg=AFQjCNGicEPSo2clz4axyA2-TogEV3xEdw&sig2=PYSHN6qrCM7bEnnAAObosw&bvm=bv.44158598,d.b2I
# [03:19] <xp_prg> now I just need a web based svg to css converter :>
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# [03:22] <llamapixel> Ahh i have tinkered with that and another browser / editor called amaya
# [03:22] <llamapixel> Inkscape should allow svg export as well if i recall
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# [03:28] <llamapixel> xp_prg: https://code.google.com/p/saws/downloads/detail?name=saws.v02.tar.gz&can=2&;q= that plugin looks like it converts inkscape to css
# [03:29] <xp_prg> wow that is cool
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# [03:38] <llamapixel> Ai to Css seems possible http://forums.adobe.com/thread/562508
# [03:38] <llamapixel> http://www.ehow.com/how_8496488_export-css-coding-illustrator.html
# [03:39] <llamapixel> The extension didnt come up when I tried it in X11 / OSX Inkscape on that link above for me anywa
# [03:39] <llamapixel> anyway
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# [03:40] <xp_prg> thanks for trying llamapixel, didn't expect that much help with this, very nice of you, i hope this could be useful to you as well
# [03:40] <llamapixel> I am not so bothered with it but enjoy the possible outcomes now.
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# [03:41] <xp_prg> yes it is superior
# [03:41] <llamapixel> Let us know how you get on later down the track
# [03:41] <xp_prg> ok
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# [10:43] <k_sze[work]> In HTML5, is there an elegant way to specify fallback URLs for resources?
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# [12:32] <gebbione> hi all, is there any clever library i can use to make IE9 work like chrome when styling form elements like SELECT, INPUT etc? for instance applying height:30px does not really expand the select to 30px, just takes the space and leave the SELECT to the minimum spacing
# [12:33] <jochen__> try chrome frame :)
# [12:34] <gebbione> is that a library?
# [12:35] <gebbione> mh noway thats not clever
# [12:36] <gebbione> i dont want user to install anything
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# [12:42] <gebbione> any clever way to change a select dropdown icon in IE?
# [12:44] <Bansku> js
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# [12:45] <Mickkelo> hi, anyone knows the lego NXT lego IDE?
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# [12:47] <Mickkelo> it's because I want to make something similar
# [12:47] <Mickkelo> like that: https://www.aisoy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/aidia-app-e1347983211702.png
# [12:47] <Mickkelo> with html5
# [12:48] <Mickkelo> and I don't know how to start with something similar
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# [13:35] <computer2000> hey i have a html table and each tr has 3 td's, now i want one tr to only have one td which fills the full width, how do i do that?
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# [13:39] <Bansku> how about googling 'table basics'
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# [14:32] <gebbione> is there a way to force IE9 not to switch to compatibility mode? somehow it is using the IE7 engine
# [14:34] <Bansku> how about googling 'ie9 switching to compatiblity mode'
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# [15:04] <yodasw16> IE9 compatibility mode would render like IE8, not IE7. Unless you mean the document or browser mode in the dev tools and not the compatibility mode toggle
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# [15:51] <gebbione> an appropriate meta tag worked
# [15:51] <gebbione> however it was loading the ie7 engine/compatibility rather than ie8
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# [16:55] <Sicilians> Does anyone have any insight into creating a modular modal with about 30 different pieces?
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# [16:56] <iGrow> Just, what the heck is a modular modal? Or is it model?
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# [17:06] <Sicilians> haha I don't exactly know what to call it myself iGrow.
# [17:06] <Sicilians> 1 sec
# [17:06] <Sicilians> Here is a wireframe of what I'm trying to make - Note: It is filled with dynamic content http://s16.photobucket.com/user/Sicilians/media/ScreenShot2013-03-25at110906PM.png.html
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# [17:06] <Sicilians> and here is how I've laid it out so far http://www.webdevout.net/test?01P
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# [17:19] <iGrow> Well I've got nothing to say about your code Sicilians but it looks like you know what you want to accomplish.
# [17:20] <Sicilians> Hopefully you're being serious and not sarcastic?
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# [17:21] * Sicilians slaps iGrow around a bit with a large trout
# [17:22] <Sicilians> whoops, was just trying to send a notification? It's been forever since I've used IRC.
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# [17:34] <iGrow> no sarcasm. Just saying go for it, looks good.
# [17:34] <iGrow> I'm stiill orienting to what html5 can do but I haven't been coding any html5 yet.
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# [17:36] <dahlfors_> if it's going to be modular, I'd go for some framework for that
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# [17:37] <dahlfors_> if you are into coding java, something like this: https://vaadin.com/home
# [17:38] <guy___> how is the type="text" pattern="\d*"
# [17:38] <guy___> supposed to work?
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# [17:42] <Sicilians> dahlfors, that does look suitable. Any news of performance issues under load or is that completely db and server related?
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# [17:44] <dahlfors_> server related yes
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# [17:45] <dahlfors_> premade frameworks are quite handy. no need to reinventing the wheel. if it's for one time usage that doesn't need to be modular, I wouldn't go for such a framework though.
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# [17:47] <Sicilians> It's definitely not for one time use.
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# [17:48] <dahlfors_> it is built on gwt, just has nicer features for web apps
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# [17:49] <Sicilians> The only issue I see with that is trying to combine jQuery or something with it.
# [17:50] <dahlfors_> so, quite a lot of it runs clientside too, so it should be fairly light on the server-side. depends on what you do.
# [17:50] <Sicilians> Would that be an issue?
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# [17:50] <dahlfors_> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9303534/is-is-possible-to-use-jquery-inside-of-vaadin-framework
# [17:50] <dahlfors_> :)
# [17:50] <Sicilians> hahaha sorry
# [17:51] <Sicilians> I just committed a "Let me google that for you"
# [17:51] <dahlfors_> hehe
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# [17:51] <Sicilians> I have absolutely no experience with java so it's very much unknown territory for me.
# [17:51] <dahlfors_> I'm more of a clientside person myself. but some of my backend friends use vaadin and are happy with that framework
# [17:51] <dahlfors_> ah k. might not be the solution for you then
# [17:52] <pingec> does chrome for android expose any sensors/acelerometer via events?
# [17:53] <Sicilians> Keeping an open mind though
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# [17:56] <dahlfors_> Sicilians: well. if you are into doing web apps, learning java with gwt / vaadin might be a nice route
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# [18:00] <Sicilians> Well, putting the load on the client-side also means that it depends on the end-users hardware, which can lead to serious adoption issues if it's an intensive app.
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# [19:33] <CodeFriar> Is it possible to do nested drop zones with native html 5 drag n drop ?
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# [19:43] <CodeFriar> 'lo ?
# [19:45] <moo-_-> CodeFriar: should be possible due to event bubbling
# [19:46] <CodeFriar> moo-_-: I have a set of nested drop zones but only the outermost one is ever returned as the event's target
# [19:48] <CodeFriar> moo-_-: do I need write different functions for each drop zone ? ie: can I not re-use the same drop function?
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# [19:55] <moo-_-> CodeFriar: hmm maybe. I suggest you put debugger; breakpoint to innermost handler to see if it is called
# [19:55] <CodeFriar> moo-_-: sorry to be so ignorant, but how do I do that ?
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# [19:56] <moo-_-> CodeFriar: register a function and put in javascript statement
# [19:56] <moo-_-> debuggre;
# [19:56] <moo-_-> sorry
# [19:56] <moo-_-> debugger;
# [19:56] <moo-_-> it will fire javascript debugger if the function is called
# [19:57] <moo-_-> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/JavaScript/Reference/Statements/debugger
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# [20:15] <jairavax> I obviously know the CSS, but I'm wondering if there's something more semantic than wrapping it in <ul> or <nav>. Is <command> implemented in anything, yet?
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# [21:04] <sparr> where can I find the spec regarding how arc() is supposed to work on an html5 canvas?
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# [21:49] <moo-_-> sparr: developer.mozilla.com
# [21:49] <sparr> I found what I was looking for here: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas/
# [21:49] <sparr> I needed something more authoritative than mozilla's docs
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# [21:53] <moo-_-> sparr: webkit and gecko source code? :)
# [21:53] <sparr> I was investigating a possible misbehavior of gecko
# [21:53] <sparr> I expected gecko to be in line with the mozilla docs
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# [21:53] <sparr> I wanted to find out if gecko and the mozilla docs differed from the spec
# [21:54] <moo-_-> sparr: also you could try #whatwg channel
# [21:54] <moo-_-> spec authors are there
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# [21:54] <sparr> thanks
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# [21:55] <moo-_-> np
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# [23:34] <agu10^> Hey guys, I would like to translate my website to spanish easily, but being able to have the SAME design and code for both. What do you suggest? I was thinking of having 2 <span lang='en'>something</span><span lang='es'>algo</span> and show/hide each using javascript, when selecting a language. What do you think?
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# Session Close: Wed Mar 27 00:00:00 2013

The end :)