/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2013-06-10 / end

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  90. # [03:00] <paul_irish> uf0work: use the color settings in the top right of the styles.
  91. # [03:00] <paul_irish> i bet you have it set to Hex?
  92. # [03:00] <paul_irish> change it to HSl
  93. # [03:01] <paul_irish> i dont think the color picker had a default favorite
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  184. # [05:35] <uf0work> paul_irish: I've always used HSL for inspecting... my css styles are in in HEX format
  185. # [05:36] <uf0work> paul_irish: I"ve never had an issue using it
  186. # [05:36] <uf0work> paul_irish: I think a recent chrome update is affecting
  187. # [05:36] <uf0work> I did click on color settings
  188. # [05:36] <uf0work> set it to HSL
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  190. # [05:36] <uf0work> and it looks like HSL
  191. # [05:36] <uf0work> but once I click on it, BOOM it changes back to HEX
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  193. # [05:37] <uf0work> word
  194. # [05:37] * sethwalker is now known as zz_sethwalker
  195. # [05:38] <uf0work> paul_irish: try it yourself.. say you have your styles authored in HEX .. then click on Color Settings and select 'HSL Colors'.. and it will nicely change to HSL
  196. # [05:39] <uf0work> paul_irish: then try to adjust the HSL color and watch it suddenly change to HEX when u try to change it
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  203. # [05:50] <paul_irish> uf0work: you in chrome 27?
  204. # [05:51] <uf0work> yup
  205. # [05:51] <uf0work> never happened before.. i even tried canary
  206. # [05:51] <uf0work> same result.
  207. # [05:52] <uf0work> so it musta been a recent update...
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  209. # [05:52] <uf0work> paul_irish: weird
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  214. # [06:06] <enerel> hi guys
  215. # [06:06] <enerel> Stray start tag br validation
  216. # [06:06] <enerel> both <br> and <br/> produce same markup error
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  218. # [06:08] <populvuh> so don't use 'em
  219. # [06:08] <enerel> br?
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  266. # [07:32] <enerel> do you guys know how to fix: A numeric character reference expanded to carriage return.
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  275. # [07:49] <enerel> anyone?
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  523. # [15:10] <jmmy> Ok so if you put class="no-js" in you html element and you add the modernizr script in you head, then it will replace "no-js" with "js and other features"
  524. # [15:10] <jmmy> Is jquery required?
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  530. # [15:23] <fabioportieri> isn't modernizr a jquery plugin?
  531. # [15:23] <moo-_-> fabioportieri: no
  532. # [15:23] <moo-_-> jmmy: no
  533. # [15:24] <moo-_-> pure Javascript
  534. # [15:24] <jmmy> moo-_-, thx
  535. # [15:24] <fabioportieri> oh i see
  536. # [15:24] <moo-_-> life is not jquery
  537. # [15:26] <jmmy> moo-_-, yep, so if I put <html class="no-js"> and include modernizr script in the head, it will replace <html class="js ..."> but it doesn't for me
  538. # [15:26] <fabioportieri> but jquery is life
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  540. # [15:27] <jmmy> I am getting error modernizr is not defined
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  545. # [15:32] <fabioportieri> paste code
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  548. # [15:33] <moo-_-> jmmy: try with jsfiddle.net
  549. # [15:34] <moo-_-> build an isolated example where others can help you online
  550. # [15:34] <jmmy> moo-_-, ok 1 min
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  552. # [15:34] <moo-_-> need to go
  553. # [15:34] <moo-_-> bb
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  630. # [17:02] <SrPx> Can someone give me an idea of the status of HTML5 mob apps? Are they viable, usable? If someone tells me he makes mobile apps, then he says he uses HTML5 for that... can I trust his apps will be as good as native?
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  643. # [17:16] <moo-_-> SrPx: yes
  644. # [17:16] <moo-_-> SrPx: you can trust it as much as random person's advice in IRC
  645. # [17:17] <moo-_-> SrPx: HTML5 apps are better than native apps for many use cases
  646. # [17:17] <moo-_-> SrPx: to know whether they are good or not for your use case, I suggest you discuss with the developer
  647. # [17:17] <moo-_-> if you cannot have open convesation then you have a matter of trust in your hands and random advices in IRC do not help in that
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  650. # [17:18] <SrPx> moo-_-: sir
  651. # [17:18] <SrPx> moo-_-: I am the dude thinking if I can say to other people wheter I can or can't make HTML5 apps...
  652. # [17:18] <moo-_-> SrPx: good
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  654. # [17:19] <SrPx> as I can make satisfactory web apps. I'm just wondering if all I have to do to produce good web apps is to scale down the page to fit the screen
  655. # [17:19] <SrPx> which would be the expected, if it ran smooth
  656. # [17:19] <moo-_-> SrPx: now that's a better question
  657. # [17:19] <moo-_-> which can have a solid answer :)
  658. # [17:19] <SrPx> so that's my question: how is the state of js engines on web devices? are they good enough?
  659. # [17:19] <SrPx> thanks.
  660. # [17:19] <moo-_-> SrPx: ha
  661. # [17:20] <moo-_-> half of the app store runs on WebView
  662. # [17:20] <moo-_-> it depends what you are doing
  663. # [17:20] <moo-_-> surely and hopefully not games
  664. # [17:20] <moo-_-> or any other real-time media
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  667. # [17:21] <moo-_-> SrPx: and in the other news Android 2.3.x is the new IE6
  668. # [17:22] <moo-_-> SrPx: so pick carefully promises about portability etc.
  669. # [17:22] <moo-_-> SrPx: but generally, if you have a "news reader" style app there is nothing preventing doing it in HTML5
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  671. # [17:24] <moo-_-> SrPx: also
  672. # [17:24] <moo-_-> if the app design comes from somewhere else
  673. # [17:24] <moo-_-> and you are not in the control
  674. # [17:24] <SrPx> ohh!
  675. # [17:24] <SrPx> that's good to hear, thanks
  676. # [17:24] <moo-_-> you can forgot doing it in HTML5, as the external designer probably has no idea about HTML5 or how it relates to native controls and so on
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  678. # [17:24] <SrPx> not sure what you mean with that
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  680. # [17:25] <SrPx> but I guess I can't use native functions with HTML5, right? writing files, GPS and so on
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  682. # [17:26] <moo-_-> SrPx: check http://caniuse.com
  683. # [17:26] <SrPx> But that's confusing, some people use Chrome on android, but I guess that's not the same chrome, right?
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  685. # [17:27] <moo-_-> SrPx: the engine is the same, but some features are platform specific
  686. # [17:27] <moo-_-> like video and audio
  687. # [17:27] <moo-_-> it renders the HTML same
  688. # [17:27] <moo-_-> but that's about it
  689. # [17:28] <moo-_-> also native apps do not embed Chrome, but WebView
  690. # [17:28] <moo-_-> which is (old) WebKit
  691. # [17:28] <moo-_-> and if you go to android 2.x (50% market share)
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  693. # [17:28] <moo-_-> that's old as your grandma
  694. # [17:28] <SrPx> Oh, starting to make sense
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  697. # [17:29] <SrPx> so, using that site, I would have to look the "android browser 2.1" row pretty much?
  698. # [17:29] <moo-_-> SrPx: yes
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  700. # [17:29] <SrPx> englightening, thanks.
  701. # [17:30] <jmmy> cookies are depreciated, Web Storage
  702. # [17:30] <moo-_-> SrPx: np
  703. # [17:30] <moo-_-> SrPx: embedding webview generally has issues and I would not recommend it for anything else but "browse pages" style use cases
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  705. # [17:31] <SrPx> so, just a last question: I develop an HTML5 app normally, test on my own browser,... then how I convert it to the HTML5 app, with icon, market and all?
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  708. # [17:31] <moo-_-> SrPx: ok the first thing you do wrong is that you test in your browser, because that's a way to bang your head to a wall, because the mobile browser will be different
  709. # [17:32] <moo-_-> SrPx: frameworks doing native application wrapping are usually called "wrappers"
  710. # [17:32] <moo-_-> most popular are phonegap, appcelerator and sencha touch native packaging and so on
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  713. # [17:35] <malorie> hi all. can I have a canvas with an image in it, and another one I'm copying the contents of the first one to, while applying transformations?
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  715. # [17:36] <cwatson> Anyone know how to make a "play game" screen in canvas (without creating another canvas)? Similar to this - http://jaicof.byethost13.com/memorybox/index.html
  716. # [17:36] <SrPx> moo-_-: cool, thanks for the names! I'll do some research now
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  738. # [17:52] <daslicht> Hi,
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  740. # [17:53] <daslicht> I like to maintain compatibility to older browsers,
  741. # [17:53] <daslicht> i have read that i coudl use html5shiv for this
  742. # [17:53] <daslicht> but I also found that it is sufficient to just use modernizr
  743. # [17:53] <paul_irish> for html5 elements, it'll hook you up ya
  744. # [17:53] <jmmy> daslicht, I just did the modernizr intro
  745. # [17:53] <jmmy> so cool
  746. # [17:53] <paul_irish> modernizr includes html5shiv
  747. # [17:54] <daslicht> ahh ok solved :D
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  749. # [17:54] <jmmy> http://alistapart.com/article/taking-advantage-of-html5-and-css3-with-modernizr
  750. # [17:54] <daslicht> thank you paul :D
  751. # [17:54] <daslicht> aye
  752. # [17:54] <daslicht> reading...
  753. # [17:54] <daslicht> so when i use h5bp i am on teh save side of life ?
  754. # [17:55] <jmmy> what the kinda questions...?
  755. # [17:55] <daslicht> thank you jmmy
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  757. # [17:56] <daslicht> never mind, i just thought loud
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  772. # [18:08] <jmmy> daslicht, you're welcome
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  774. # [18:09] <daslicht> reading the article you've suggested, interesting
  775. # [18:09] <jmmy> did you finish yet, let me know if you get stuck, I can move you along, cause I just did it a few mins ago
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  777. # [18:10] <daslicht> i am right now at fontface
  778. # [18:10] <jmmy> daslicht, if you are looking for a quick start. You should check out twitter bootstrap. It includes modernizr, just like modernizr include html5hiv
  779. # [18:10] <daslicht> "I’m removing the shadow when the browser decides to render the custom font. "
  780. # [18:11] <daslicht> what happens when the browser decided to render the custom font
  781. # [18:11] <jmmy> nothing, it renders it
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  784. # [18:11] <daslicht> ok
  785. # [18:11] <daslicht> yeah i know bootstrap
  786. # [18:12] <daslicht> already used it for some backend things
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  788. # [18:12] <jmmy> backend, bootstrap is front end
  789. # [18:12] <daslicht> I recently got a frontend job , so now i like to create something great compatible and good indexable by google
  790. # [18:13] <daslicht> it was far a backend i have codded in symnfony
  791. # [18:13] <daslicht> a cms backend
  792. # [18:13] <jmmy> you can style @fontface with class fontface, and style the case without @fontface with class no-fontface
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  794. # [18:13] <jmmy> Cause the fonts size won't line up for both cases
  795. # [18:14] <daslicht> ok i need to have a deeper look inside teh usage of those no classes
  796. # [18:14] <daslicht> ahh ok i see
  797. # [18:15] <jmmy> in the case of @fontface. When you have the font, you need to set the font-size, and for the case of no @fontface, that same size usually doesn't look right, too big or too small, so you just make your adjustment
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  799. # [18:15] <daslicht> so i basically have to add both classes to my target element
  800. # [18:15] <jmmy> daslicht, no, you do it in your css
  801. # [18:16] <daslicht> ok
  802. # [18:16] <daslicht> let me have a look at the examples html
  803. # [18:17] <jmmy> say you have an h1 element with id="mySpecialTitle". THen you style it twice, once .no-fontface #myspecialTitle and once .fontface #myspecialTItle. THe .fontface style or .no-fontface style will be added to the html element by modernizr
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  806. # [18:18] <daslicht> ahh
  807. # [18:18] <daslicht> so incase the browser supports .borderradius
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  809. # [18:18] <jmmy> do inspect element to see what you got
  810. # [18:18] <daslicht> it will be added to teh <html tag
  811. # [18:19] <daslicht> and thjererfore i can access #content like .borderradius #content
  812. # [18:19] <daslicht> yeah
  813. # [18:19] <jmmy> yeah all the features are added to the <html> element. You start with <html class="no-js"> and modernizr will replace <html class="js fontface(or no-fontface) borderradius...
  814. # [18:19] <daslicht> cool approach
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  817. # [18:21] <jmmy> daslicht, you should tell your backend guys about Web Storage. Even ie8 supports it. Its gonna end a lot of backend coding
  818. # [18:21] <daslicht> i finished that stuff
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  820. # [18:21] <daslicht> and i am not really interested in doing any symfony stuff in near future :D
  821. # [18:21] <daslicht> Hav eyou tried Meteor ?
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  823. # [18:22] <daslicht> much more interesting :D
  824. # [18:22] <jmmy> Never heard of it
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  826. # [18:22] <jmmy> daslicht, looks cool thx
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  828. # [18:23] <daslicht> I love JavaScript
  829. # [18:23] <daslicht> I love reactive Programing <3
  830. # [18:24] <jmmy> frig man...I'd prefer to code in jquery
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  836. # [18:25] <daslicht> its also js
  837. # [18:26] <daslicht> i also love jQuery
  838. # [18:26] <daslicht> :D
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  840. # [18:27] <daslicht> how do you do browser test ? open the page in a VM ? with IE7 uhh
  841. # [18:27] <daslicht> ?
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  843. # [18:28] <jmmy> yeah, I use VirtualBox, so I have win xp and ie 8 and win 8 and ie9
  844. # [18:28] <daslicht> last time i tried it , i had some issues accessing the vbox via the network :/
  845. # [18:29] <daslicht> but i try it soon again
  846. # [18:29] <jmmy> network, I installed it locally
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  850. # [18:30] <jmmy> virtualbox-ose
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  859. # [18:36] <daslicht> yeah i also installed it locally , but i had issues connecting to it from my host os
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  861. # [18:37] <jmmy> daslicht, you have to add your cd image so that you can boot it.
  862. # [18:37] <daslicht> ok i try it again :)
  863. # [18:37] <jmmy> you can add it first, or during install
  864. # [18:37] * Quits: Lethalman (~luca@net77-43-20-100.mclink.it) (Remote host closed the connection)
  865. # [18:38] <jmmy> once pain is that I can't access my local system, so if I make a site locally, I move it to the internet to test it through the virtual os
  866. # [18:38] <daslicht> that is exactly what i meant
  867. # [18:38] <daslicht> :D
  868. # [18:39] <jmmy> Its not easy to access it, and probably better not too.
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  872. # [18:41] <daslicht> just found : http://ecsstender.org
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  875. # [18:42] <jmmy> cool
  876. # [18:42] <jmmy> so many technologies
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  881. # [18:43] <daslicht> funny name tho
  882. # [18:44] <jmmy> You hears of lesscss.org
  883. # [18:45] <daslicht> yeah
  884. # [18:45] <daslicht> i recently used sass and stylus
  885. # [18:45] <daslicht> but no less yet
  886. # [18:45] <daslicht> hehe
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  888. # [18:47] <jmmy> its included in bootstrap. Foundation is comparable to bootstrap. bootstrap uses less and foundation uses sass
  889. # [18:48] <daslicht> ok
  890. # [18:48] <daslicht> meteor also have less included
  891. # [18:48] <daslicht> it even compiles the files
  892. # [18:49] <jmmy> i usually use templates
  893. # [18:49] <daslicht> good practice
  894. # [18:50] <daslicht> heh
  895. # [18:50] <jmmy> its too hard to design
  896. # [18:50] <daslicht> i bet
  897. # [18:50] <daslicht> i have no template at the moment
  898. # [18:51] <daslicht> to much stuff going on here until today
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  900. # [18:51] <jmmy> I bought 4 responsive templates $22
  901. # [18:51] <daslicht> i just finished my MSc DigitalMedia studies and since 01.03 I am freelancing and trying to find out where I am home
  902. # [18:52] <jmmy> Masters Science, wow
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  904. # [18:52] <daslicht> first freelance job was that Symfony stuff but it was so boring
  905. # [18:52] <daslicht> heh
  906. # [18:52] <daslicht> I need something fresh
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  909. # [18:53] <daslicht> but until today I havent really found any more attractive jobs
  910. # [18:55] <jmmy> what was your bachelor's?
  911. # [18:55] <daslicht> Digital Media either
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  913. # [18:56] <daslicht> If I tell people here in Germany that I have studied DigitalMedia NOONE know what it actually is about :D
  914. # [18:56] <daslicht> when strating to study even the highschool profs didn know actually what is it about hehe
  915. # [18:56] <jmmy> wierd...the name is obvious
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  918. # [18:57] <daslicht> they recently canceled the complete branch and renamed it digital media production
  919. # [18:57] <daslicht> what is you association with teh name Digital Media ?
  920. # [18:57] <daslicht> this would be very interesting for me
  921. # [18:57] <jmmy> mostly websites
  922. # [18:58] <daslicht> cool
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  924. # [18:58] <jmmy> also animations
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  926. # [18:58] <daslicht> yeah exactly
  927. # [18:59] <daslicht> I also concentrated on music
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  929. # [18:59] <daslicht> beside being interested in new technlogies I am a musician
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  933. # [19:01] <daslicht> I have so many interesting things on my todo list
  934. # [19:01] <jmmy> Me I'm interested in Web Design, Chess, TV Sitcoms, Religous speaches
  935. # [19:01] <daslicht> it would be lovely if I could to it for my living either
  936. # [19:02] <daslicht> Thats me : https://soundcloud.com/ansolas
  937. # [19:02] * Joins: andyguzman (~andyguzma@66.214.99.99)
  938. # [19:02] <daslicht> AnSolas is my artist name
  939. # [19:02] <daslicht> it mea
  940. # [19:02] <jmmy> I just added to Religous speaches this last week. Youtube. I also luv watching Documentaries and shows like that. But reality television bored me.
  941. # [19:02] <daslicht> it means The Light in english and Das Licht in German :D
  942. # [19:03] <jmmy> ooooh yeah, nice songs
  943. # [19:03] <daslicht> :D
  944. # [19:03] <jmmy> my site www.itsource.pw
  945. # [19:03] <daslicht> on my todo list is to first built a homepage for AnSolas using Meteor (practice)
  946. # [19:04] <daslicht> and create a Instant Music Download store for Spiritual-Healing-Records (our label)
  947. # [19:04] <daslicht> nice
  948. # [19:05] <daslicht> my site so far : http://marcwensauer.de
  949. # [19:05] <daslicht> I am recreating it in near future
  950. # [19:05] <jmmy> oooh man. I love the clouds. Well done
  951. # [19:06] * Quits: dreamon_ (~dreamon@unaffiliated/dreamon) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  952. # [19:06] <jmmy> what server side javascript you talking about?
  953. # [19:06] <jmmy> meteor?
  954. # [19:06] <daslicht> yeah
  955. # [19:06] <jmmy> you know about node.js?
  956. # [19:06] * Quits: andyguzman (~andyguzma@66.214.99.99) (Client Quit)
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  958. # [19:06] <daslicht> yeah
  959. # [19:07] <jmmy> of course
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  961. # [19:07] <daslicht> meteor is built ontop of it
  962. # [19:07] <daslicht> and meteor comes with a built in MongoDB
  963. # [19:07] <daslicht> and it is reactive with live html updates
  964. # [19:08] <jmmy> whats betreff?
  965. # [19:09] <daslicht> topic :)
  966. # [19:09] <daslicht> multilingual page is on my todolist hehe
  967. # [19:09] <jmmy> Opps, that didn't work, please try again. (Send Failed)
  968. # [19:10] <daslicht> brb
  969. # [19:10] <daslicht> phone...
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  978. # [19:17] <daslicht> ok back
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  984. # [19:18] <daslicht> hm , email is sending here
  985. # [19:19] <jmmy> you got it?
  986. # [19:20] <daslicht> hm i just sent an email
  987. # [19:20] <daslicht> i got no error
  988. # [19:20] <daslicht> hmm
  989. # [19:21] <jmmy> at the top? it said Opps, that didn't work, please try again. (Send Failed)
  990. # [19:21] * Joins: NivenHuH (~NivenWuss@sonic.mochaleaf.com)
  991. # [19:22] <daslicht> strange
  992. # [19:22] <daslicht> which browser
  993. # [19:22] <jmmy> chrome
  994. # [19:23] <daslicht> currently i just use gpeasy as backend
  995. # [19:23] <daslicht> maybe its email function is buggy :D
  996. # [19:23] <daslicht> soon i will have a custom email logic
  997. # [19:23] <jmmy> I just use mail()
  998. # [19:24] <daslicht> http://78.47.126.11/dev/responsive/mw/
  999. # [19:24] <daslicht> :D
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  1001. # [19:25] <jmmy> nginx eh?
  1002. # [19:25] <jmmy> apache2
  1003. # [19:25] <daslicht> so you use bootstrap ?
  1004. # [19:25] <jmmy> yep
  1005. # [19:25] <daslicht> yeah its nginx
  1006. # [19:25] <daslicht> my intention is to use it as reverse proxy for my node apps
  1007. # [19:25] <daslicht> :D
  1008. # [19:25] <jmmy> I bought webserver vps with dedicated ip for only $11/year and SSL cert for only $11/year
  1009. # [19:26] <daslicht> that very cheap
  1010. # [19:26] <jmmy> Yeah, SSL certs have gotten cheap. But the VPS, there is only one company that is that cheap. SecureDragon
  1011. # [19:26] <daslicht> you have full root access ?
  1012. # [19:26] <jmmy> Everyone else is about $200
  1013. # [19:27] <jmmy> daslicht, yep, Debian
  1014. # [19:27] <daslicht> cool
  1015. # [19:27] <daslicht> i pay 7,99 Euro / Month !
  1016. # [19:28] <jmmy> Yeah, Linode is about $250/yr and that is the standard price around here. But I found this SecureDragon, and I was skeptical. But that's his price
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  1018. # [19:28] <daslicht> very nice
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  1020. # [19:28] <daslicht> http://serverdragon.com/openvz.php\
  1021. # [19:28] <daslicht> ?
  1022. # [19:28] <daslicht> those/
  1023. # [19:28] <daslicht> ?
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  1025. # [19:29] <jmmy> yep
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  1027. # [19:30] <jmmy> you see it, 10.99/ye
  1028. # [19:30] <daslicht> ok i see, it has 32 MB Ram
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  1030. # [19:30] <daslicht> ad 2GB HDD
  1031. # [19:30] <daslicht> thats teh catch :D
  1032. # [19:30] <jmmy> it wierd, cause I asked for extra ip and they told me $22/yr, but I could just get another server for $11/year
  1033. # [19:30] <daslicht> hehe
  1034. # [19:31] <jmmy> yeah, but I am just hosting a site. and my site loads fast.
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  1037. # [19:31] <jmmy> Did you see the site. www.itsource.pw How does it load over there. The server is in Florida or something, and I am in Canada, but it loads fast here.
  1038. # [19:33] <daslicht> yeah
  1039. # [19:33] <daslicht> great thing
  1040. # [19:34] <jmmy> loads fast in Germany too?
  1041. # [19:34] <daslicht> jip
  1042. # [19:34] <daslicht> < 1 sec
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  1044. # [19:35] <daslicht> :)
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  1046. # [19:36] <jmmy> what do you jip?
  1047. # [19:37] <daslicht> yep jip yes jo
  1048. # [19:37] <daslicht> :D
  1049. # [19:37] <daslicht> agree
  1050. # [19:37] <jmmy> what do you mean jip and jo?
  1051. # [19:37] * Quits: codingkevin (~mote@unaffiliated/codingkevin) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  1052. # [19:38] <daslicht> I just agreed
  1053. # [19:38] <daslicht> I also could have written yes or aye heh
  1054. # [19:38] <jmmy> what does jip and jo mean?
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  1056. # [19:38] <daslicht> no special meaning
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  1058. # [19:39] <jmmy> jip means rip off?
  1059. # [19:39] <daslicht> no
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  1061. # [19:39] <daslicht> i just used it as something liek nope but positive
  1062. # [19:39] <daslicht> like
  1063. # [19:39] <daslicht> I apologize for the confusion
  1064. # [19:40] <jmmy> its ok
  1065. # [19:40] <daslicht> :)
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  1067. # [19:41] <daslicht> ok i am going to eat something na dbe back in a while
  1068. # [19:41] <jmmy> ttyl
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  1110. # [19:57] <jmmy> jquery .data() is same as the new html5 Web Storage/
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  1194. # [20:58] <malorie> is anybody in here familiar with jcanvas?
  1195. # [20:58] <malorie> I'm having a problem regarding its text wrapping behavior
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  1222. # [21:32] <sopben> how badly would I be boo'd if I put a section in a section?
  1223. # [21:33] <jkirch> are you doing it semantically?
  1224. # [21:33] <sopben> It makes sense to me
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  1226. # [21:34] <jkirch> just do it...
  1227. # [21:35] <sopben> heh
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  1229. # [21:35] <sopben> I decided not to. went with div :/
  1230. # [21:35] <sopben> I crumbled. :)
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  1232. # [21:36] <jkirch> saves 8 characters too
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  1380. # [23:53] <nyc-h0st> odd issue, have a video tag to an ogv movie, firefox just bombs out with Error loading content (NS_ERROR_DOCUMENT_NOT_CACHED), any ideas?
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  1385. # Session Close: Tue Jun 11 00:00:00 2013

The end :)