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- # Session Start: Fri Jan 03 00:00:00 2014
- # Session Ident: #html5
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- # [02:07] <hugo_moss> hello, when caniuse.com says there is 80% browser support for canvas basic support, what does that entail? 2d canvas?
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- # [07:13] <KaitoKid> good day guys, how can I output C++ codes on my webpage? I've tried using <code> tag, but it seems on my #include <iostream>, the HTML automatically closes it with </iostream>
- # [07:15] <KaitoKid> nvm guys, <pre> tag was the answer
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- # [07:21] <apollonovich> I want to do something that might not be possible, but I"m curious if there's a way.
- # [07:22] <apollonovich> I have a div filled with a freeform list of identifiers (tags). I want to a) size the div to fill the available column space (easy w/ jquery), and then figure out how many tags fit in it, and set up pagination to pull the correct number in for each page (the size of a tag varies wildly). Is there any way to do something like this?
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- # [13:39] <dekiss> I have dfivs with float left and position relative, they haave childlren divs with position absolute. The parents don't get height, how can I make the mto get height from the children?
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- # [13:41] <moo-_-> dekiss: You don't. You explicitly set the width and height of the parent.
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- # [13:51] <dekiss> moo-_- thank
- # [13:51] <dekiss> s
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- # [13:52] <dekiss> ANother problem - I have parent with position relative, and child in it with position absolute, when child gets mroe width then parent its content is not visible
- # [13:53] <dekiss> solved
- # [13:53] <dekiss> my mistake
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- # [15:09] <tpayne> does anyone know how i can create multiple shadows like css, on a canvas? http://imgur.com/v578gaF
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- # [15:25] <tpayne> i'd like to shoot whoever designed the specs for canvas
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- # [15:34] <tpayne> whomever*
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- # [16:06] <dekiss> what is the browser suport for custom html 5 attributes?
- # [16:06] <dekiss> ue9 is supporting them?
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- # [16:15] <Ms2ger> data-?
- # [16:15] <Ms2ger> All recent browsers at this point, I think
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- # [17:51] <tpayne> nobody out there?
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- # [18:58] <dkm> thirdender: I tend to have an idealized view to these sorts of issues: I feel that third-party dependance on old technoglogy and practices remains largely due to developers prefering backwards compatibility over better design and structure
- # [18:59] <dkm> my approach would be to switch everything to nested sections and let the screen readers and search engine crawlers adapt
- # [19:00] <dkm> but then again, I'm not a professional, I don't produce a lot of content and my livelihood isn't tied to the size of the audience I reach, so...
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- # [19:33] <thirdender> dkm: agreed, except I build websites for other people, so I need to... figure out what's best :-p I feel like HTML5 is a good standard, but it's being hacked to pieces by lack of acceptance. We have SEO experts saying "no more than one H1 tag, stop saying that!" (seriously, I've seen websites saying "don't teach more than one H1, it's wrong" and complaining about HTML5 gaining traction). We also have bad implementations of screen re
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- # [19:40] <brian1001> Hello everyone
- # [19:41] <dkm> thirdender: I kind of want to find some open source screen reader project now and see what it would take to make it HTML5 aware
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- # [19:44] <brian1001> im trying to create a very simple HTML(5) webpage which listens for a TCP socket connection and if it receives something then print "OK"
- # [19:44] <brian1001> hope some of the experts here can hepl a little
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- # [19:50] <thirdender> dkm: http://www.nvaccess.org/ :-) free, open-source, apparently gaining traction over the previous champ JAWS
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- # [19:52] <thirdender> hmm... homepage doesn't use H1 tags for sections, but the internal pages do... comparing http://www.nvaccess.org/ and http://www.nvaccess.org/download/
- # [19:52] <thirdender> maybe there is hope!
- # [19:53] <apollonovich> Is there a way to precompute the expected size of an element in js?
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- # [19:54] <apollonovich> Say I know I'm going to render a large number of tags in a layout based on an ajax query. I want to know how big the tag formatting will be on the screen, in order to choose how many to draw, *Before* I render them.
- # [19:55] <dkm> thirdender: cool! but obnoxious that it is still windows-only. wonder why no one has ported it to OSX or Linux
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- # [19:56] <thirdender> dkm: I think it's related to how the window manager portrays information in the windows to the screen reader. Windows uses one interface, X11 is another can of worms.
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- # [19:58] <dkm> ah, sounds likely. I have not gotten into much GUI development myself, X11 or otherwise, so I am sadly ignorant of the complexities involved
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- # [20:05] <thirdender> neither have I, that's just what I've picked up :-p apparently Windows is good at providing accessibility hints from the UI as well, which is why it's popular in the accessibility community. Things may change with Wayland, haven't even remotely been following that though :-p
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- # [20:10] <dkm> thirdender: I certainly hope Wayland improves things... it seems like some great things could happen if there was more overlap between the accisibility community and the *nix and open source communities
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- # [20:14] <thirdender> dkm: definitely :-) although window manager development in *nix has traditionally been a hard nut to crack, I'd love to see it happen. There's a definite push in that direction. Heck, I'd welcome the Android on desktop revolution if only it meant having a proper console on every computer and the demise of IE :-p
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- # [21:05] <moo-_-> thirdender: haha
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- # [21:08] <moo-_-> the year of Linux desktop
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- # [21:16] <thirdender> moo-_-: :-p one of these years...
- # [21:17] <thirdender> been living the dream since I was like 16, so... one of these years :-p I'm just happy all hosting is now *nix. Remember when there was actually a chance Microsoft might have actually dominated that market too?
- # [21:17] <moo-_-> I'd call this the millenium of Linux desktop
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- # [22:00] <dekiss2> I have installed some helvetica neue fonts and now my fonts in web pages looks bad, like bold and bad unreadable :S
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- # [22:02] <dekiss2> is this bug in chrome
- # [22:02] <dekiss2> in firefox text is better
- # [22:02] <moo-_-> dekiss2: antialiasing for Chrome Windows had some issues
- # [22:02] <moo-_-> not sure if they have been fixed or not
- # [22:02] <dekiss2> ye its not :)
- # [22:02] <moo-_-> dekiss2: you can google around if you feel lucky
- # [22:02] <moo-_-> it's antialiasing issue
- # [22:02] <dekiss2> facebook use helvetica neue..
- # [22:03] <dekiss2> moo-_- thanks
- # [22:03] <dekiss2> you are a nice guy
- # [22:03] <dekiss2> :)
- # [22:03] <dekiss2> seriously
- # [22:03] <dekiss2> you help me a lot always
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- # [22:17] <moo-_-> np
- # [22:18] <moo-_-> good questions get good answers
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- # [22:29] <moo-_-> is it possible to make <input type="text"> honour the size of its content like <span>, <div>, etc.?
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- # [22:43] <thirdender> moo-_-: try `input { font-size: 1em; font-family: inherit; }`
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- # [22:44] <thirdender> moo-_-: do you mean font size, or fit the width of it's parent container?
- # [22:45] <moo-_-> I mean input width does not follow the flow, but is taken from its <input size> attribute
- # [22:45] <moo-_-> If I have input with text xxxxxxx I want it to take space so that xxxxxxxxx is fully visible
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- # [23:08] <thirdender> moo-_-: so you want the width of the INPUT to change as the user enters text? or are you just trying to control the width separate from the `size` attribute?
- # [23:08] <moo-_-> thirdender: only for the initial value
- # [23:08] <moo-_-> thirdender: but never mind,, it's too hacky
- # [23:08] <moo-_-> I think something else
- # [23:09] <thirdender> cool :-p yeah, best I think you can do is set width using `size` or better yet the CSS `width: XXem;`, where XX is a number appropriate to the size of the INPUT
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- # [23:10] <thirdender> you'd have to designate the value of XX for each INPUT though... but em units scale with font size, so you could guess pretty consistently the width in ems of an INPUT for which you know the text (or use Javascript to calculate it with a bit of work)
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- # [23:18] <felixjet> can someone help me with a semantic question please?
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- # [23:18] <felixjet> on html5doctor, the <article> and <header> are used for commenting system
- # [23:18] <felixjet> where every comment is inside an <article>
- # [23:18] <felixjet> and the poster and date inside <header>
- # [23:18] <felixjet> really... a comment is an article? :S
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- # [23:47] <thirdender> that's how Wordpress has been handling comments now. It's also recommended for use by the W3C: http://dev.w3.org/html5/html-author/#the-article-element
- # [23:48] <thirdender> if you think about it, a comment is "an independent section of a document, page, or site" that was posted at a certain time, contains a user's opinion... it is an article of sorts :-p
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- # [23:49] <thirdender> alternatively, SECTION is the only other sectioning element that would come close to the same semantic meaning, but it's most likely not the right choice. If I remember correctly, there was discussion about adding a COMMENT tag for a while, but at that point you're ending up with tag soup...
- # [23:52] <felixjet> thirdender, but... it doesnt make sense in its own
- # [23:52] <felixjet> aside wouldnt have semantic meaning here?
- # [23:54] <thirdender> I can kind of agree with that (comment not making sense aside from the rest of the content), but I think the ARTICLE tag is meant to have a looser meaning than "self-contained"
- # [23:54] <felixjet> i see
- # [23:55] <thirdender> ASIDE might appropriate as a wrapper for all comments... not sure. I see a SECTION being used for comments usually though (http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/CR-html5-20130806/sections.html#the-article-element)
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- # [23:56] <felixjet> in that url
- # [23:56] <felixjet> the comments are embed inside <footer>
- # [23:56] <felixjet> :/
- # [23:58] <felixjet> and also its using <footer> for comment poster and date
- # [23:58] <felixjet> which is weird
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- # [23:58] <felixjet> ah, it explains it at the bottom
- # [23:58] <felixjet> (Using header in this case wouldn't be wrong either; it's mostly a matter of authoring preference.)
- # Session Close: Sat Jan 04 00:00:00 2014
The end :)