/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-01-15 / end

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  41. # [00:21] <pr0t> so far I have 4 iframes displaying but can't get the last one to display http://pastebin.com/texiMt2k I know its stupid to use that many iframes, but just curious how i can get the last one to display
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  43. # [00:22] <Ansem> the answer to this is don't use iframes
  44. # [00:22] <Ansem> mostly because many (most) browsers have hard limits on how many you can actually have
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  55. # [00:28] <pr0t> hrmm
  56. # [00:28] <pr0t> what should I use instead?
  57. # [00:28] <pr0t> divs?
  58. # [00:28] <Ansem> what are you trying to do?
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  91. # [00:56] <jorb> is it a bad idea to use 1px stretched images instead of background colors for html elements?
  92. # [00:56] <jorb> solid colors of course
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  96. # [00:58] <jorb> hold on let me see if that even works
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  175. # [02:04] <moo-_-> jorb: sounds like "you are doing it wrong"
  176. # [02:04] <moo-_-> there is absolute no reason to use 1 px images
  177. # [02:04] <jorb> hmm
  178. # [02:04] <jorb> yeah i should have put that out there moo-_-
  179. # [02:04] <jorb> it didn't work LOL
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  181. # [02:04] <jorb> but i use it alot actually
  182. # [02:05] <jorb> just becaduse i am bad at graphics
  183. # [02:05] <jorb> i like blocks
  184. # [02:05] <jorb> lol
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  186. # [02:05] <jorb> "you are doing it wrong" is not constructive feedback either haha
  187. # [02:05] <jorb> maybe it is actually
  188. # [02:05] <jorb> esp if it doesn't work
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  191. # [02:08] <jorb> use it on the canvas i should say
  192. # [02:08] <jorb> but it goes back to my question.. if i am just using a 1px image and stretching it to a canvas Image object.. is it more work than just a fillRect??
  193. # [02:09] <jorb> for the browser
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  196. # [02:09] <jorb> i think i am abusing irc herethough as i haven't tried anything at all or even googled it yet
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  204. # [02:19] <dekiss> is it ok to have div and a on same level?
  205. # [02:21] <paperziggurat> same level dekiss?
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  209. # [02:22] <dekiss> yes in div to have another div and a paperziggurat ^
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  211. # [02:23] <paperziggurat> like <div id="container><div id="subcontainer"><a>... ?
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  249. # [02:58] * pablasso is now known as pablasso_afk
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  252. # [03:05] <dekiss> peper
  253. # [03:05] <dekiss> ah nwo i saw :S
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  383. # [06:20] <grantg> paul_irish: http://i.imgur.com/ueZ4rtp.png
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  447. # [08:22] <dekiss2> how can I rotate background
  448. # [08:23] * Joins: petey (~petey@108-240-30-84.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
  449. # [08:24] <faustFederel> dekiss2: you can rotate a gradient but you can't do that with an image used as a background
  450. # [08:24] <dekiss2> no no
  451. # [08:24] <dekiss2> I mean
  452. # [08:24] <dekiss2> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
  453. # [08:24] <dekiss2> combination between css and javascript
  454. # [08:24] <dekiss2> transform
  455. # [08:24] <dekiss2> and
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  457. # [08:24] <dekiss2> transition
  458. # [08:24] <dekiss2> and something more
  459. # [08:24] <dekiss2> css feature
  460. # [08:24] <dekiss2> something about background
  461. # [08:24] <dekiss2> :SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
  462. # [08:24] <dekiss2> can't remember
  463. # [08:26] <faustFederel> dekiss2: why don't you provide a testcase to begin with?...
  464. # [08:28] <dekiss2> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh man
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  466. # [08:29] <dekiss2> faustFederel is div inside label ok ?
  467. # [08:30] <faustFederel> dekiss2: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/label
  468. # [08:31] <faustFederel> dekiss2: (the permitted content link)
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  471. # [08:37] <dekiss2> faustFederel tehre isn't permited content
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  473. # [08:39] <faustFederel> Don't you see the "Phrasing content" link next to "Permitted content"?
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  475. # [08:46] <dekiss2> no
  476. # [08:46] <dekiss2> faustFederel hm
  477. # [08:46] <dekiss2> not sure how I mised I hit ctrl+f..
  478. # [08:46] <dekiss2> 8 50 am.. no sleep for few days
  479. # [08:46] <dekiss2> ill die soon if I contnue like this
  480. # [08:46] <dekiss2> i sleep once in 3 days
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  490. # [09:00] <MrJones> http://www.moment-of-instability.de/ is there an obvious way to speed this up? (warning site plays audio!) the canvas rendering appears to be pretty slow... it lags in both webkit and gecko browsers and interferes with scrolling etc despite only running at 10FPS
  491. # [09:01] <MrJones> and I'm doing roughly 15 drawImage calls with scale, rotation and alpha, that doesn't seem to be that much
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  493. # [09:02] <faustFederel> MrJones: did you try drawing on an off-document canvas first?
  494. # [09:02] <MrJones> no, I assumed that would only speed up things if I had anything to precompose which I don't have
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  496. # [09:03] <MrJones> all things pretty much move independently around
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  498. # [09:03] <MrJones> does it speed up things even for regular rendering with no precompose?
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  505. # [09:11] <faustFederel> MrJones: It would I think. also, last time I worked with canvas, I saw a tremendous performance boost when I used ImageData and getImageData()
  506. # [09:11] <faustFederel> MrJones: the same happened when I used clipping paths. in short, the less you actually asks it to draw something directly on the screen, the faster it will be
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  508. # [09:15] <MrJones> faustFederel: I googled a bit and the only recommendation for off-screen rendering I saw is for precomposing things. which kind of makes sense, since why would it be naturally faster in any way to an actual screen render - it allows to precompose stuff though so you can avoid rerendering each frame, that's not that suitable for me though
  509. # [09:15] <MrJones> also, I don't think clipping paths is of any use for images? as long as they're at least partially on the screen, I cannot really do anything else except draw them, can I
  510. # [09:16] <MrJones> will check out ImageData, let's see if that helps
  511. # [09:16] <faustFederel> MrJones: this sounds silly to me? it has to be much more efficient to render off-screen first? it's what double buffering is all about
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  513. # [09:17] <faustFederel> MrJones: clipping paths will allow you to reduce the amount of pixels to repaint which is always good. (it helped a lot in my case)
  514. # [09:17] <MrJones> no why would it be any faster? the idea of double buffering is that you render a buffer to the screen WHILE rendering another one in the background
  515. # [09:17] <MrJones> however, that essentially requires threading which js cannot do
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  519. # [09:17] <MrJones> so in js, no matter whether you render to the screen or to an offscreen buffer, the whole browser will be busy doing just that while you do it
  520. # [09:18] <MrJones> at least that is what I strongly expect is the case. I haven't measured it
  521. # [09:18] <MrJones> I would even expect it to be slightly slower because you need to copy your whole offscreen buffer to screen
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  523. # [09:19] <MrJones> and unless true double buffering, in js that will hang and not allow you to render the next screen contents while that happens (which is how proper double buffering works)
  524. # [09:19] <MrJones> faustFederel: do you by any chance know if canvas operations are usually GPU accelerated in a modern webkit or gecko browser?
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  526. # [09:21] <faustFederel> MrJones: i shouldn't have said double buffering indeed. however, I still think it will be lighter/faster to draw on an offscreen canvas first and then to copy everything at once to the visible one?
  527. # [09:22] <faustFederel> MrJones: I don't know, sorry : (
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  529. # [09:23] <MrJones> faustFederel: what I am wondering is, with a native C application with 3d acceleration, I can easily have 500 sprites moving with rotation + alpha + transparency
  530. # [09:23] <MrJones> and this site lags with just 15
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  532. # [09:23] <faustFederel> MrJones: in the sense that your offscreen canvas will be mainly dealing with numbers and values. when you render something, JS will do it on the fly, every single time. calling the whole rendering pipeline every single time
  533. # [09:23] <MrJones> I doubt that actually
  534. # [09:23] <MrJones> I suspect render operations on a canvas will actually go to some sort of image buffer
  535. # [09:24] <MrJones> and the whole compositing and actual display will only happen once you return js execution to the browser
  536. # [09:24] <MrJones> that is also why a while (1) { } hang in js does hang the whole ui of your website
  537. # [09:24] <faustFederel> MrJones: try putting an alert between two drawing operations on a canvas?
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  540. # [09:24] <MrJones> an alert will actually force the site to redraw I think
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  542. # [09:24] <MrJones> it won't usually do that just in the middle of your javascript execution without you prompting it
  543. # [09:25] <faustFederel> MrJones: (yeah, canvas's never been that fast :/ you usually have to optimize the hell out of it...)
  544. # [09:25] <MrJones> that would get you partial images of what you're just drawing and other nasty things
  545. # [09:25] <MrJones> I just don't get why it's so slow
  546. # [09:25] <MrJones> if it was GPU accelerated, it really shouldn't be
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  548. # [09:26] <faustFederel> MrJones: why would there be an instruction to group drawing operations then?
  549. # [09:27] <MrJones> which one, the stroke stuff?
  550. # [09:30] <MrJones> is there any way to group drawImage operations?
  551. # [09:30] <MrJones> basically, you can put the GPU in a 'mode' with a certain texture/color applied and then batch out geometry
  552. # [09:30] <faustFederel> MrJones: ugh, what am I saying... there's a library that does that but not a native method! sorry
  553. # [09:30] <MrJones> that's faster than doing each single quad or whatever separately
  554. # [09:30] <MrJones> so if the canvas could do that, it would certainly make sense for gpu acceleration
  555. # [09:31] <faustFederel> MrJones: if you really want high performances, you could try with a WebGL context?
  556. # [09:32] <MrJones> yea webgl could be a lot faster
  557. # [09:33] <faustFederel> MrJones: hearing the stuff you want to do, I'd go for that :D
  558. # [09:33] <MrJones> still, I'm not that familiar with opengl and I'm not sure it's trivially possible to put a webgl context as a background of a regular webpage
  559. # [09:33] <faustFederel> MrJones: I thought there would be more methods to help you >.>
  560. # [09:33] <MrJones> well I don't want to do anything beyond what I do now
  561. # [09:33] <MrJones> now I'm just hoping to speed it up :D
  562. # [09:34] <faustFederel> MrJones: html5rocks must have good articles about this. you should check it out
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  565. # [09:39] <faustFederel> MrJones: (if you give a shot to drawing off-screen today, I'd be interested in knowing if it makes a difference)
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  567. # [09:43] <MrJones> faustFederel: some site claims browsers will reschedule painting during canvas stuff and off-screen is supposed to be faster
  568. # [09:43] <MrJones> still, I highly doubt a browser does repainting during javascript operations
  569. # [09:43] <MrJones> so I'm still suspecting that to be incorrect
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  573. # [09:45] <faustFederel> MrJones: I agree with you on the repainting... I guess I was decieved by a badly written tutorial.... mor me rading too quickly!
  574. # [09:46] <MrJones> just talking to people on irc.mozilla.org
  575. # [09:46] <MrJones> it is hard to even find someone who has a slight idea whether the html 5 canvas drawImage operations are 3d accelerated or not lol
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  577. # [09:48] <faustFederel> MrJones: did you try searching in bugzilla tickets?
  578. # [09:48] <MrJones> I was even linked one
  579. # [09:48] <MrJones> but it is so riddled with internal function names that it is impossible for me to tell whether it means they work on 3d acceleration or not lol
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  583. # [09:53] <faustFederel> MrJones: did you check that one? http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/canvas/performance/
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  585. # [09:55] <MrJones> faustFederel: except ro requestAnimationFrame, I can't use any of those
  586. # [09:56] <MrJones> most suggestions there are only useful if not your whole image changes each frame
  587. # [09:56] <MrJones> *for
  588. # [09:56] <MrJones> I'll have to see whether requestAnimationFrame is of any use, since right now I'm just drawing at 10FPS anyway so it would probably just cause faster drawing which I cannot imagine increases page responsiveness :D
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  593. # [10:04] <faustFederel> MrJones: x_x hellish situation
  594. # [10:04] <faustFederel> MrJones: Good luck with that :D
  595. # [10:05] <MrJones> faustFederel: hah firefox nightly actually DOES have 3d accelerated canvas
  596. # [10:05] <MrJones> it took me quite a while to find someone who knew how to activate it
  597. # [10:05] <MrJones> the results are impressive
  598. # [10:05] <MrJones> beats all webkit browsers to dust for my particular site
  599. # [10:06] <faustFederel> MrJones: link? *_*
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  601. # [10:07] <MrJones> faustFederel: to what? firefox nightly? o.O
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  603. # [10:08] <MrJones> regarding the settings, set gfx.canvas.azure.accelerated to true (setting may not exist, create it in that case), and make sure gfx.canvas.azure.backends has skia as first value (you can have multiple ones, comma separated)
  604. # [10:09] <faustFederel> MrJones: no, to a tutorial showing that, or a snippet? if you have one I'm interested
  605. # [10:09] <MrJones> showing what?
  606. # [10:09] <faustFederel> MrJones: thanks
  607. # [10:09] <MrJones> for enabling 3d accelerated canvas, see above
  608. # [10:09] <MrJones> ok :)
  609. # [10:09] <faustFederel> :)
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  611. # [10:09] <MrJones> it will only work in nightly though I believe
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  613. # [10:12] <faustFederel> MrJones: probably, we don't care anyway. we use the setting anyway and warn people about staying up to date (they will anyway thanks to rolling-releasing)
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  618. # [10:14] <faustFederel> MrJones: *sighs*... using canvas sounds like a science on its own...
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  649. # [10:59] <xDevz> If you need any help with development, full Website coding, Script modifications, small fixes and others.. msg me
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  679. # [11:36] <zump> Any html5 plotting libraries suitable for live plotting?
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  687. # [11:45] <alper> you can use google charts for that
  688. # [11:47] <zump> Is that client side. IT needs to be real time. I will use websockify to get data.
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  690. # [11:51] <alper> yes it is a client side chart library like most of the other plotting libraries , you can implement any real time data to google charts
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  694. # [11:59] <zump> alper: how does it compare to graphael
  695. # [12:02] <alper> i did not use graphael before but they look very similar
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  698. # [12:03] <alper> i liked the appearance of graphael charts
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  912. # [15:55] <brontosaurusrex> What is the procedure to make firefox to admit it can't play mp4 stuff?
  913. # [15:55] <brontosaurusrex> with this http://paste.debian.net/plain/76399 ff returns null
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  917. # [15:56] <zeRez> hi there
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  935. # [16:02] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: if (!document.querySelector("video").canPlayType('video/mp4')) {console.log('can't play mp4')}
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  943. # [16:04] <brontosaurusrex> paulrouget, where do i drop that?
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  945. # [16:04] <zaynetro> brontosaurusrex: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/HTML/Supported_media_formats in the end of file you can find the list of supported devices
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  948. # [16:05] <paulrouget> zaynetro: don't rely on this. This changes very often.
  949. # [16:05] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: in your JS code
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  959. # [16:08] <zaynetro> paulrouget: I just mentioned that firefox has a partial support of video element and mp4 files especially
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  962. # [16:08] <brontosaurusrex> paulrouget, right, but there is no way to simply use the " no video supported + url " in video tag itself ?
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  972. # [16:11] <zaynetro> brontosaurusrex: use JS for that
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  974. # [16:13] <brontosaurusrex> right
  975. # [16:13] <faustFederel> brontosaurusrex: can't you use the Examples' code in this page? https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/video#Examples
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  977. # [16:14] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: no. It's impossible. The fallback you mentionned before is here for "video tag not supported", not the type.
  978. # [16:15] <paulrouget> zaynetro: and it's going to change (mp4 is slowly coming, but not on mac yet)
  979. # [16:15] <brontosaurusrex> faustFederel, no, because firefox can html5video but can't actually play mp4, so ....
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  981. # [16:15] <faustFederel> paulrouget: ugh, just realised it... would it be possible to put something between <source> and </source>?
  982. # [16:15] <brontosaurusrex> ok, thanks
  983. # [16:16] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: supported on linux and windows non-XP (if supported by the platform)
  984. # [16:16] <faustFederel> brontosaurusrex: ugh, you can't!? are they stupid or what?
  985. # [16:16] <brontosaurusrex> paulrouget, mac has mp4 forever with safari afaik
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  987. # [16:16] <faustFederel> <source> => void element.....
  988. # [16:16] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: but not bound to Firefox
  989. # [16:17] <paulrouget> brontosaurusrex: a built in codec is coming though (which will bring mp4 to winxp and mac)
  990. # [16:17] <brontosaurusrex> paulrouget, yeah
  991. # [16:17] <brontosaurusrex> that cisco thingy?
  992. # [16:17] <paulrouget> right
  993. # [16:17] <paulrouget> faustFederel: that's not possible because that would mean decoding the video during the initial DOM parsing
  994. # [16:17] <brontosaurusrex> Seems like another problem, current decoder only supporting baseline stuff
  995. # [16:18] <brontosaurusrex> "decoding the video during the initial DOM parsing", why i'am telling it that type is mp4
  996. # [16:18] <brontosaurusrex> <source src="movies/file.žmp4" type="video/mp4">
  997. # [16:18] <brontosaurusrex> ^ example
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  1000. # [16:21] <paulrouget> right. The engine doesn't know at this point if the video uses the base profile or the high profile, so it doesn't know if the video is supported or not.
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  1002. # [16:23] <faustFederel> paulrouget: couldn't they simply test for the MIME type? if it's not in the list of supported ones, display what's between <source> and </source>? : (
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  1004. # [16:24] <paulrouget> mime type is not enough to know if it's supported.
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  1008. # [16:25] <paulrouget> but yeah, it's possible to know for sure if a mime/type is *not* supported
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  1012. # [16:27] <faustFederel> paulrouget: ok. thanks for explaining me this :) I wish they added some <invalidsource> tag or something and only trusted MIME type... heh, that's life.
  1013. # [16:28] <paulrouget> just use the JS function.
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  1121. # [17:25] <Shackleford> has anyone read Chris Coyiers article on using target="_blank"
  1122. # [17:25] <Shackleford> http://css-tricks.com/use-target_blank/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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  1133. # [17:28] <Shackleford> I'm curious what the going theory is on using target = blank
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  1293. # [18:51] <patrickkettner> Shackleford: that seemed like a reply to http://www.marco.org/2014/01/10/target-blank
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  1296. # [18:54] <Shackleford> interesting...
  1297. # [18:54] <Shackleford> it is a very opinionated topic...
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  1328. # [19:17] <Andre_designer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NOzkyhA-aQ&feature=youtu.be
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  1445. # [20:31] <jsilver> does anyone know anything about testing (i.e. rspec) on a XDK, PhoneGap or Cordova app?
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  1747. # Session Close: Thu Jan 16 00:00:00 2014

The end :)