/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-01-16 / end

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  133. # [02:00] <Se7enLC> Anyone familiar with the behavior of the <audio> tag in Firefox?
  134. # [02:01] <Se7enLC> I'm finding that firefox is caching the audio file, and even refreshing the page there's no way to force it to reload
  135. # [02:01] <Se7enLC> chrome doesn't
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  185. # [02:54] <Dwight_Stegall> hold down the shift key when refreshing a page to force the browser to go to the source for a new copy not from the cache. you might have to click o refresh severl times to get it to give up
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  188. # [02:55] <Dwight_Stegall> netscape invented that. it's called super reload and is in ever browser now
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  398. # [07:56] <DrDhum> Hello, I am working with the HTML5 history API, and was wondering if there was someone familiar with that part of HTML5?
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  421. # [08:34] <wefo> DrDhum: I've never heard of it.
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  425. # [08:40] <wefo> If I do @font-face blabla to load a custom font to the user in my CSS, what guarantee is there that it will be loaded and ready for the user in time for attempting to use it in my HTML 5 game? In fact, it seems like it's inevitable that many/most users will load the game before the font. Thus, what will happen? Will the Canvas 2D application start drawing with that font the second it gets it, or will the user have to reload the page?
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  449. # [09:33] <paulrouget> wefo: there's no event yet. It's a known spec issue.
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  470. # [10:14] <wefo> Dammit.
  471. # [10:14] <wefo> Is it at least possible to check whether a font exists on the client's machine with JS?
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  475. # [10:21] <wefo> paulrouget:
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  478. # [10:25] <wefo> Found some bizarre hackish way.
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  480. # [10:25] <wefo> http://www.kirupa.com/html5/detect_whether_font_is_installed.htm
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  487. # [10:30] <paulrouget> wefo: right. You can check that the text size changed. But I believe that if you use a dataurl for the font, it will be loaded synchronously. So you're sure it's available.
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  495. # [10:34] <wefo> paulrouget: Please rephrase that.
  496. # [10:34] <wefo> paulrouget: I can check that the text size changed? I assume that's a dumbed down version of what the function on the page I linked to does?
  497. # [10:34] <wefo> (I understand what it does.)
  498. # [10:34] <paulrouget> right.
  499. # [10:35] <wefo> But the dataurl thing...
  500. # [10:35] <wefo> I don't get what you mean by that.
  501. # [10:35] <wefo> I simply do: @font-face { font-family: 'test_font'; src: url('test_font.woff') format('woff'); }
  502. # [10:36] <wefo> Hmm... I seem to be missing a ; there, BTW.
  503. # [10:36] <paulrouget> right. But instead of url('normalURL') use url('data:…'), it will load the font synchronously (but lazily iirc)
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  505. # [10:36] <wefo> "synchronously" as in "if this is above the canvas/JS part of the HTML file, it will load before for sure"?
  506. # [10:37] <paulrouget> right
  507. # [10:37] <wefo> Hmm...
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  509. # [10:38] <wefo> Well, that sounds like a nobrainer for me to use, then.
  510. # [10:38] <wefo> But I should probably STILL check with the insane JS function that it exists, right?
  511. # [10:38] <paulrouget> no need
  512. # [10:38] <wefo> Hmm...
  513. # [10:38] <paulrouget> sorry, needs to run
  514. # [10:38] <paulrouget> bbl
  515. # [10:38] <wefo> :S
  516. # [10:38] <wefo> You leave me hanging...
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  534. # [11:00] <paulrouget> wefo: so yeah, try to use a dataURL and the draw in your canvas. I think you can assumre that the font is in memory.
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  538. # [11:01] <wefo> paulrouget: I'm still very skeptical.
  539. # [11:01] <wefo> Trying to get somebody to confirm this.
  540. # [11:01] <wefo> It's too good to be true IMO.
  541. # [11:02] <wefo> Maybe there is some massive glitch in IE or something.
  542. # [11:02] <wefo> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7m8LnWeK
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  547. # [11:05] <wefo> As usual, not a god damn fucking person is active...
  548. # [11:05] <wefo> You'd think that HTML 5 and whatnot would be a big thing.
  549. # [11:05] <wefo> But it seems like it's some marginal, obscure thing.
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  551. # [11:10] <paulrouget> wefo: I'm helping you. Just test it. Man, we're not here to do your homework…
  552. # [11:10] <wefo> It's not homework.
  553. # [11:10] <wefo> And I can't test it.
  554. # [11:11] <wefo> And even if I did, how would I know it works for sure?
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  556. # [11:11] <wefo> Just because it works for me doesn't mean it works properly.
  557. # [11:12] <dahlfors1> html5 is a big thing. but instead of sitting here irc'ing, I think many of us are instead working :)
  558. # [11:12] <paulrouget> just execute your code synchronously (before the load event): include font-face, include canvas, include <script>, draw, measure. This is all synchronous. You can be 100% sure with that. If what I said is valid, just use base64 fonts.
  559. # [11:13] <paulrouget> wefo: and don't wait for someone else to "confirm this". Just confirm yourself. It's not magic.
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  562. # [11:13] <paulrouget> Also: dataurl fonts are indeed loaded in sync looking at this: https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/f06bc45e46ae
  563. # [11:14] <paulrouget> but again, needs to be verified
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  580. # [11:42] <liushuigs> hi all
  581. # [11:44] <liushuigs> paul_irish
  582. # [11:44] <liushuigs> 在？
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  587. # [11:51] <Ms2ger> paul_irish, pretty sure font loading is async
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  599. # [12:05] <wefo> paulrouget: First of all, a test case is not as easy as you make it out to be.
  600. # [12:05] <wefo> Secondly, it working on my computer SAYS NOTHING.
  601. # [12:05] <wefo> It could break in "some browsers", or there might be "known issues".
  602. # [12:05] <wefo> That's very often the case.
  603. # [12:06] <wefo> So I'm not asking you to try it on your computers.
  604. # [12:06] <wefo> I'm asking for others to verify it because they know more than I do about it.
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  609. # [12:10] <paulrouget> Ms2ger: dataURL as well? https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=512566
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  732. # [14:45] <BenjaminR> Anyony experienced with frontend development for hybrid apps for ios and android? id like to hire a professional to join me from the beginning. preferred german speaking guys. my part would be the apis on serverside.
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  742. # [14:51] <elizbarr> ##javascript
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  744. # [14:51] <frankstallone> BenjaminR: I have experience with Adobe's PhoneGap for building iOS & Android native apps using HTML5, HandlebarsJS etc
  745. # [14:51] <frankstallone> But I am unfortunately not available to help you. =/
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  747. # [14:52] <BenjaminR> frankstallone: so i dont unterstand why you shout out ;)
  748. # [14:53] <frankstallone> BenjaminR: I shouted out to let you know that if you are looking for someone to help, PhoneGap may be the right solution.
  749. # [14:53] <frankstallone> I guess you can say I am shouting out to give you my experience.
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  758. # [14:56] <BenjaminR> I see! :) Thanks frank :)
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  760. # [14:56] <BenjaminR> Also thought about intel XDK or Appcelerator
  761. # [14:56] <BenjaminR> so many choices
  762. # [14:56] <frankstallone> True, good luck with your idea!
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  765. # [14:57] <BenjaminR> Thanks! Have a good time
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  807. # [15:30] <wefo> "It was (and remains) controversial because using a remote font as part of a Web page allows the font to be freely downloaded. This could result in fonts being used against the terms of their license or illegally spread through the Web. TrueDoc (PFR), Embedded OpenType (EOT) and Web Open Font Format (WOFF) are formats designed to address these issues." - Wikipedia. How exactly does WOFF address this issue? A
  808. # [15:30] <wefo> WOFF is just a TTF with some compression and extra metadata (if the creator added it).
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  811. # [15:32] <Ms2ger`> It obfuscates the font just enough to make the font makers happy
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  833. # [15:54] <moparisthebest> when drawing text on a canvas (using context.fillText) can I tell how wide it will end up being preferably before I draw it?
  834. # [15:55] <moparisthebest> ie, I'm drawing arbitrary strings in a box, so I have an Ideal font size I set to fit height-wise
  835. # [15:55] <moparisthebest> and if the string is short enough, it fits, but if it's too long I need to size it down until it fits width-wise
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  853. # [16:06] <robdunne> .
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  875. # [16:23] <paulrouget> moparisthebest: fillText has a maxWidth parameter: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CanvasRenderingContext2D#fillText%28%29
  876. # [16:23] <paulrouget> moparisthebest: and yes, you can measure text: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CanvasRenderingContext2D#measureText%28%29
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  879. # [16:26] <moparisthebest> paulrouget: maxWidth squeezes the text down, like sizing down an image only horrizontally, so it's not uniform
  880. # [16:26] <moparisthebest> and measureText appears to only work after it's already drawn
  881. # [16:27] <moparisthebest> I was looking for a way to say 'with font size X, how wide will this string be in pixels?'
  882. # [16:27] <moparisthebest> that way, I can make the font size smaller, until it fits width-wise
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  891. # [16:30] <paulrouget> moparisthebest: draw in a different canvas. Find the right layout in this other canvas (via measureText), then draw the canvas in the main canvas (via drawImage). Don't forget that fillText is very very slow (that's why you should use fillText)
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  894. # [16:30] <moparisthebest> you mean that's why I should use fillImage?
  895. # [16:31] <moparisthebest> also thanks, I thought I might have to do that, but was hoping for an easier way... :(
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  900. # [16:34] <paulrouget> fillImage?
  901. # [16:35] <moparisthebest> <paulrouget> *snip* Don't forget that fillText is very very slow (that's why you should use fillText)
  902. # [16:35] <moparisthebest> you mean't "(that's why you should use fillImage)" , right?
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  904. # [16:38] <paulrouget> oh, sorry
  905. # [16:38] <paulrouget> and not fillImage, drawImage.
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  909. # [16:39] <moparisthebest> ah yea, thanks
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  914. # [16:42] <coderego> Just came across http://www.initializr.com/...do you guys you HTML5 Biolerplate / Twitter BootStrap / Responsive? Do you find it useful?
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  916. # [16:43] <Black0range> Hey guys wonder if anyone of you know how to feed audio data into the audio object using only javascript?
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  919. # [16:47] <wefo> Black0range: You wanna be able to do PC speaker noises? Like in the old days?
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  923. # [16:48] <Black0range> Well that would be fun as well... But my goal is to make a Audio chat between browsers
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  925. # [16:51] <faustFederel> Black0range: through a websocket or something?
  926. # [16:51] <Black0range> Yup :)
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  932. # [16:54] <Black0range> Never mind i just found it!
  933. # [16:54] <Black0range> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/AudioContext
  934. # [16:54] <Black0range> Holy beep people knows how to make things too complicated
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  938. # [16:57] <moparisthebest> paulrouget: if you are interested, here is what I came up with: http://pastie.org/8639403
  939. # [16:57] <moparisthebest> seems to work well, continues to size down the font until it fits
  940. # [16:57] <moparisthebest> or font size goes down to 3 hehe
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  969. # [17:34] <wefo> Aaaaaaaaaaaaand he left before I could respond.
  970. # [17:35] <wefo> Wait... there is a textAlign property to contexts? So all those hours of measuring the width and doing complex math calculations to get it centered were wasted?
  971. # [17:35] <wefo> Bloody. Hell.
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  973. # [17:36] <wefo> Is this some kind of bleeding edge feature? I hate never being able to tell. There is no clear documentation whatsoever.
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  975. # [17:37] <paulrouget> wefo: There is: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/CanvasRenderingContext2D
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  985. # [17:43] <wefo> Hmm.
  986. # [17:43] <wefo> Odd.
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  988. # [17:44] <wefo> Zero documentation, though.
  989. # [17:44] <wefo> It's just mentioned.
  990. # [17:45] <paulrouget> wefo: I think you can't be helped :) You're litteraly rejecting all the options I'm offering you with bad faith :)
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  992. # [17:46] <paulrouget> wefo: btw, it's a wiki, feel free to add stuff there
  993. # [17:47] <wefo> I "can't be helped"?
  994. # [17:47] <wefo> The fucking page you linked to has only a mention of it.
  995. # [17:47] <wefo> Apparently, it is supposed to be self-explanatory.
  996. # [17:47] <wefo> center, left and right are. Kinda.
  997. # [17:47] <wefo> But not start and end.
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  1002. # [17:52] <paulrouget> wefo: if MDN is not enough, you can look at the spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/2dcontext/#dom-context-2d-textalign
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  1010. # [18:00] <wefo> paulrouget: You don't happen to know if there is any way to manipulate a canvas/context as a 3D object? Like... having it be a sheet of paper that can be tilted and put into a perspective as to simulate a primitive 3D view?
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  1014. # [18:02] <paulrouget> yes. The 3D context: WebGL.
  1015. # [18:03] <paulrouget> wefo: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/WebGL
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  1018. # [18:04] <paulrouget> wefo: and you might to look at this higher level library: http://threejs.org/
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  1029. # [18:07] <wefo> I meant in 2D mode. Which I guess makes little sense in that sense.
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  1031. # [18:08] <wefo> But WebGL is so completely different.
  1032. # [18:08] <wefo> It's not fun.
  1033. # [18:08] <wefo> I don't like that they are so different.
  1034. # [18:08] <wefo> And this wasn't for true 3D.
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  1037. # [18:14] <paulrouget> wefo: thressjs.org does 3D with a 2D context too
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  1044. # [18:16] <wefo> I've used Three.js.
  1045. # [18:16] <wefo> It was not pleasant to say the least. Its Canvas renderer was... very bad.
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  1049. # [18:18] <paulrouget> really? It's known as one of the best library out there to do 3D with the 2d context.
  1050. # [18:18] <paulrouget> if you want perf, use webgl, if you want simplicity with canvas2d, use three.js
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  1054. # [18:20] <wefo> Perf = ?
  1055. # [18:20] <gabebug> does anyone know how long a page cached via an app cache manifest will stay cached?
  1056. # [18:20] <wefo> Perfection or performance?
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  1059. # [18:22] <paulrouget> performance
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  1062. # [18:23] <paulrouget> gabebug: until the cache manfiest is changed
  1063. # [18:24] <gabebug> paulrouget: so is this like cookies, where the cache will *never* be cleared out by the browser, or is it like http-caching, where the browser will eventually clear it out to make room?
  1064. # [18:25] <gabebug> i'm trying to make a phone gap app with offline support that hopefully will still load if the user hasn't opened the app for several months
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  1067. # [18:26] <paulrouget> gabebug: it won't clear. Ever. Until you change the cache manifest.
  1068. # [18:26] <gabebug> awesome, that's what i wanted to hear, thanks :)
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  1070. # [18:27] <paulrouget> np
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  1185. # [20:18] <thurf> hi, does anyone know how i can get invited to the php channel, or another public php channel ?
  1186. # [20:18] <thurf> i know its not html5, but...
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  1195. # [20:24] <coderego> join ##php
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  1199. # [20:26] <onenine90> howdy guys. Im having an issue with canvas where my images do that thing where, when you have a very large photo, and zoom out, it looks like shit
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  1201. # [20:26] <onenine90> the canvas element is max-width:100% of it's parent, not sure if that helps any of you
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  1235. # [20:42] <skel> anyone use <keygen> ? I'm trying to figure out how you utilize the keys after they're generated
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  1241. # [20:52] <patrickkettner> @skel they are POSTed to the server. wufoo has a simple demo - http://www.wufoo.com/html5/elements/4-keygen.html
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  1243. # [20:53] <skel> patrickkettner: I see the public key is so that works I can set it as a var, but how would one access the private key to decrypt something encrypted with the public key? Or is that just on you to find some client-side framework to do that?
  1244. # [20:53] <skel> patrickkettner: since it's stored in the OS keystore
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  1249. # [20:56] <patrickkettner> you can't access the private key
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  1251. # [20:57] <patrickkettner> the idea is you use the public key to create a client cert to auth the user later on, if memory servce
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  1254. # [20:58] <skel> patrickkettner: ok I'll reread the w3 docs. I'm probably missing something. pubkey = encrypt, privkey = decrypt / sign
  1255. # [20:59] <skel> patrickkettner: so I'm not clear on how you could auth anything if you can't decrypt / validate identity
  1256. # [20:59] <patrickkettner> i'm working from memory, havent read over the stuff since we tried to add a test for it in modernizr
  1257. # [20:59] <patrickkettner> so I could be wrong - fairly sure though
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  1259. # [20:59] <patrickkettner> please do follow up once you figure it out
  1260. # [20:59] <patrickkettner> :D
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  1262. # [21:01] <skel> patrickkettner: will do :)
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  1434. # Session Close: Fri Jan 17 00:00:00 2014

The end :)