/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-01-31 / end

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# Session Start: Fri Jan 31 00:00:00 2014
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [00:00] <hotsauce> Ah well the browser does, just going to delete stuff again till it works.
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# [00:03] <hotsauce> This, this is it, within mozilla itself: #adbox {
# [00:03] <hotsauce> -moz-binding: url("about:abp-elemhidehit?264774645661#dummy") !important;
# [00:03] <hotsauce> }
# [00:05] <hotsauce> from elemhide.css, line 1761. Though this is a CSS issue now not HTML5.
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# [00:11] <skip> little help with includes? Not setting them up but correctly pointing how to find the CSS?
# [00:12] <hotsauce> Well actually, lol, it was my damn adblocker lol.
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# [00:12] <hotsauce> Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
# [00:13] <hotsauce> Which explains a few things. I really should reconsider my dev setup...
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# [00:16] <hotsauce> skip what exactly do you have going on?
# [00:16] <skip> I am not typing my path correctly. the includes work but they can't "find" the css
# [00:16] <skip> includes have their own folder, css has its folder, index is at the top level..
# [00:17] <skip> oh, maybe bcs I dint' use .php?
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# [00:19] <skip> woo-boo..now it found an image1
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# [00:19] <skip> ok..thar she blows!
# [00:19] <hotsauce> w00t
# [00:19] <hotsauce> Glad I could help lol.
# [00:20] <skip> you are amazing, hotsauce
# [00:20] <skip> heh
# [00:20] <hotsauce> indeed
# [00:20] <skip> you know sometimes it helps just to say it or write it out loud, then the epiphany happens
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# [00:23] <hotsauce> Exactly.
# [00:24] <hotsauce> it forces you to actually analyze the issue.
# [00:24] <skip> that's right..
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# [09:29] <african_ant> ping
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# [11:20] <african_ant> hey
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# [14:35] <ShawnRisk> How do I get the HTML5 audio tag to work on mobile devices? Right now when I click the audio tag in mobile, this opens in a new page. Any ideas?
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# Session Close: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
#
# Session Start: Fri Jan 31 14:46:12 2014
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [14:52] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
# [14:52] * Set by marienz!marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Fri Oct 21 20:53:09
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# Session Close: Fri Jan 31 15:42:24 2014
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# Session Start: Fri Jan 31 15:42:24 2014
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [15:50] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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# [17:40] <Pomax> if I have a custom font not loading in Chrome, withour errors or warnings, what's the best way to find out what's preventing Chrome from using it?
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# [17:40] <Pomax> (when it works in FF)
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# [17:44] <dahlfors1> step one is to try with another font, to make sure your syntax is correct
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# Session Close: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
#
# Session Start: Fri Jan 31 19:13:17 2014
# Session Ident: #html5
# [19:13] * Disconnected
# [19:18] * Attempting to rejoin channel #html5
# [19:18] * Rejoined channel #html5
# [19:18] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
# [19:18] * Set by marienz!marienz@freenode/staff/marienz on Fri Oct 21 20:53:09
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# [19:38] <Pomax> dahlfors1: it most definitely is. http://pomax.github.io/CFF-glyphlet-fonts/
# [19:39] <Pomax> works in firefox, but in chrome (also not in IE, but that's because IE refuses to acknowledge real opentype fonts. it only likes eot and woff)
# [19:39] <Pomax> amusingly, it works in every browser on android, but not desktop chrome on windows or osx
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# [19:54] <dahlfors1> Pomax: this syntax has worked well in all browsers for me: http://www.paulirish.com/2009/bulletproof-font-face-implementation-syntax/
# [19:55] <dahlfors1> the usual culprit is usually that you need to add some mod_header definitions to apache for firefox to be able to view fonts on different subdomains
# [19:55] <Pomax> this is a font loaded from data-uri
# [19:55] <Pomax> it's built on the page in JS, converted to a base64 data string, then injected as src: url("data:....")
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# [19:56] <dahlfors1> sounds like some escaping trouble then
# [19:57] <dahlfors1> haven't used fonts like that myself though, so I'm not aware if there are any bugs
# [19:57] <Pomax> again, it works just fine in a hell of a lot of browsers, just not blink browsers =)
# [19:57] <dahlfors1> doesn't matter
# [19:57] <dahlfors1> different browsers might need different escaping. seen it before
# [19:57] <Pomax> I filed a bug on the chrome bug tracker, but was hoping someone knew how to make chrome give more information than what it currently does
# [19:57] <Pomax> which is no warnings, nor errors.
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# [19:58] <dahlfors1> only suggestion I can give you for debugging that is to use some tool like icomoon.io/app to build a tiny font with just one symbol
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# [19:59] <dahlfors1> if that works, it might be some issues in chrome with too small buffers
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# [20:00] <dahlfors1> what does chrome inspector say?
# [20:00] <Pomax> nothing at all.
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# [20:00] <Pomax> it's completely silent, not signalling any errors or warnings
# [20:00] <Pomax> as far as it knows, nothing went wrong
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# [20:02] <dahlfors1> but wait. you build it with js
# [20:02] <dahlfors1> clientside?
# [20:02] <Pomax> yes
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# [20:03] <dahlfors1> and where do you inject the src tag?
# [20:03] <Pomax> check the head element on the live DOM
# [20:03] <dahlfors1> src definition
# [20:03] <Pomax> I inject a stylesheet with an @font-face { font-family: ... src: url('data:......'); }
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# [20:04] <Pomax> constructed in https://github.com/Pomax/CFF-glyphlet-fonts/blob/gh-pages/buildTablesNow.js#L172
# [20:04] <dahlfors1> ok
# [20:04] <dahlfors1> there's your issue in chrome
# [20:04] <dahlfors1> it's an array of objects in the style definition
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# [20:05] <Pomax> what?
# [20:05] <dahlfors1> or wait, not
# [20:05] <Pomax> it's a normal <style> element, you can inject that anywhere you like and it kicks in
# [20:05] <dahlfors1> sorry, checking quickly while eating
# [20:05] <Pomax> heh
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# [20:09] <dahlfors1> hmmm. in firefox I don't get the table at all
# [20:10] <dahlfors1> while in chrome I do
# [20:10] <dahlfors1> should it be expected?
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# [20:11] <Pomax> it should. works fine in FF for me on win7, OSX and Android
# [20:11] <Pomax> (26 at least)
# [20:11] <dahlfors1> FFS. been testing some sites on FF at work today
# [20:12] <dahlfors1> been testing pages with and without js...
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# [20:12] <Pomax> blessed "no JS" button =P
# [20:12] <dahlfors1> but yes, I don't get a black rectangle at all on Firefox 26
# [20:12] <Pomax> which os?
# [20:12] <dahlfors1> os x
# [20:13] <dahlfors1> I run an older version, 10.7.5
# [20:13] <Pomax> that's interesting.
# [20:13] <Pomax> hm, could also be relevant. in 10.8 it works
# [20:13] <dahlfors1> but custom fonts surely wok
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# [20:13] <dahlfors1> we use it a lot at work
# [20:13] <Pomax> yeah, this is a bit of a artisan font
# [20:14] <dahlfors1> but yes. firefox says downloadable font: not usable by platform (font-family: "custom font" style:normal weight:normal stretch:normal src index:0)
# [20:14] <dahlfors1> source: data:application/x-font-opentype;base64 ...
# [20:14] <Pomax> in terms of opentype, it is 100% legal and correct, but it can reveal wonky things in font engines
# [20:14] <dahlfors1> and then downloadable font: font load failed (font-family: "custom font" style:normal weight:normal stretch:normal src index:0)
# [20:14] <dahlfors1> source: data:application/x-font-opentype;base64, ...
# [20:14] <Pomax> I wonder if that's apple's text engine in 10.7 not able to deal with it
# [20:14] <dahlfors1> in the debugger it breaks the rows weirdly
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# [20:15] <dahlfors1> but yep. not a line break issue in the <style> tag either
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# [20:16] <dahlfors1> Pomax: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2871655/proper-mime-type-for-fonts
# [20:16] <Pomax> there is none.
# [20:16] <Pomax> unfortunately
# [20:17] <Pomax> I tried a number of "sensible" mime types, none of them make Chrome like this font
# [20:17] <dahlfors1> yes. but what does the browser do if you add in "font/opentype" ?
# [20:17] <Pomax> the same thing
# [20:17] <dahlfors1> k
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# [20:18] <dahlfors1> well. it didn't work in my firefox either. not sure what could be different in ff 26 on os x 10.7.5 vs 10.8
# [20:18] <Pomax> motly apple's support of OTF
# [20:19] <Pomax> there wasn't any real support pre-leopard
# [20:19] <Pomax> they've been trickling in non-AAT support with every OS upgrade
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# [20:20] <dahlfors1> win7 firefox works when I test it there yes
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# [20:24] <dahlfors1> Pomax: have you checked how fontsquirrels base64 encode output looks?
# [20:25] <Pomax> I have not
# [20:25] <Pomax> hm, opera 12, despite being obsolete, at least says "unable to use webfont"
# [20:25] <Pomax> which isn't the most useful, but better than nothing
# [20:25] <dahlfors1> that one is crossbrowser with normal font file linking, I'd expect the base64 encoded version to be crossbrowser too
# [20:25] <Pomax> I'm pretty sure they convert to ttf though
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# [20:26] <Pomax> one trick of this font is that it's the more complicated cff opentype flavour
# [20:26] <Pomax> but worth checking
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# [20:27] <dahlfors1> they output eot
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# [20:27] <dahlfors1> I'm not sure what's different with eot and cff opentype flavour as you speak of.
# [20:27] <dahlfors1> maybe you know
# [20:28] <Pomax> eot is a truetype opentype font, renamed to eot with the embedding bits set to allow embedding. it was MS's solution to fonts-with-drm on the web
# [20:28] <dahlfors1> anyway. in the generator on font squirrel, there is an advanced mode where you can pick the base64 encoding. other than that I don't think I can be much more of a help
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# [20:29] <Pomax> opentype comes in two flavours. ttf (historically microsoft's; simpler to make, but more bytes for vector oulines) and cff (historically adobe's; much harder to make, but super compact)
# [20:29] <Pomax> thanks anyway, you've given some decent pointers
# [20:30] <Pomax> the silly thing is that both ttf and cff are opentype fonts, but the first is distributed with a .ttf extension, and the second with an .otf extension, so you get no clue that they're both just "opentype".
# [20:32] <dahlfors1> may I ask what you're doing with that script? it's an interesting font embedding method
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# [20:33] <Pomax> it's a glyphlet font generator. When done, you give it an SVG outline and it builds you a tiny, tiny font dedicated to letting you use that shape for "something" (letter, sequence of letters, etc) and nothing else
# [20:33] <Pomax> the font it loads right now is about 640 bytes, for instance.
# [20:33] <dahlfors1> ok. that's what I was thinking :)
# [20:34] <dahlfors1> at work we've tried to remake design to get rid of images when we can, using icons as glyphs
# [20:34] <Pomax> the real challenge is to make sure there's a GSUB table that does what you want.
# [20:34] <Pomax> ie, you type "twitter", and only after that 'r' does the font kick in and show you a single icon
# [20:34] <Pomax> (that way screen readers and older tech still shows you want the icon is supposed to represent)
# [20:35] <Pomax> <span data-icon="twitter"></span> is generally extremely bad for accessibility =P
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# [20:36] <dahlfors1> yes. I get a feeling that the web isn't as accessible these days as it was a while ago
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# [20:37] <dahlfors1> read some statement from some organisation of blind ppl recently. they urged for better accessibility
# [20:37] <Pomax> it's about as hard as trying to make people stop using tables back when we invented mainstream CSS
# [20:37] <dahlfors1> my work doesn't need to cater for visually impaired as much though, since we're specifically focused on live video.
# [20:37] <Pomax> it's entirely doable, but people need to start doing it, and it needs to feel easy
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# [20:39] <Pomax> dev patching of browsers to have a little "accessible?" button to throw warnings like "missing alt text for image" and "empty span with data- attribute" would go a long way to help devs discover defficiencies, too
# [20:39] <Pomax> but, 1 step at a time
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# [20:40] <dahlfors1> yes. different error/warning levels in inspector would be wonderful.
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# [22:12] <Snelhest45> Sigh.
# [22:12] <Snelhest45> Can somebody PLEASE tell me a library/way to define a series of coordinates for the vertices of a polygon, then rotate and place it (math-wise -- not drawn) for checking if two of those collide with each other?
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# [22:12] <Snelhest45> I've wasted literally weeks on this.
# [22:12] <Snelhest45> Getting nothing else done.
# [22:16] <Snelhest45> I just wanna do: var onePolygon = [[0, 0], [3, 7], [6, 18], [4, 23]]; var anotherPolygon = [[1, 5], [2, 9], [1, 5], [12, 8]]; if (lib.arePolygonsOverlapping(onePolygon, anotherPolygon)) // do stuff
# [22:16] <Snelhest45> Is that too much to ask for?
# [22:16] <Snelhest45> (Well, I also wanna rotate and place them.)
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# [22:27] <irae_> Pomax: I am very interested in the script you are building. Do you plan to open source?
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# [22:29] <Pomax> it already is?
# [22:29] <Pomax> head yourself over to github
# [22:30] <Pomax> it does need finishing though. it still needs the SVG path to type2 pathing conversion
# [22:30] <Pomax> (and some improvements to how the CFF is built)
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# Session Close: Sat Feb 01 00:00:00 2014

The end :)