/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-03-25 / end

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# Session Start: Tue Mar 25 00:00:00 2014
# Session Ident: #html5
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# [06:01] <sash87> Hi guys.. anybody over here wokd on SVG
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# [12:52] <frojnd> moo-_-: here?
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# [12:57] <mtree> How is it made? https://www.justareflektor.com
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# [13:00] <moo-_-> frojnd: hey
# [13:00] <moo-_-> always here
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# [13:01] <moo-_-> somebody needs to take watch in IRC
# [13:01] <mtree> https://www.justareflektor.com/tech?home - ok everything is here
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# [13:09] <frojnd> moo-_-: you seem to know alot about web and mobile phones. I havea a question for you if that's ok.
# [13:09] * WolfieZero is now known as WolfieZero|Away
# [13:09] <moo-_-> frojnd: there is no point asking for a permission for the question
# [13:09] <moo-_-> people here either know answer, don't know answer or do not care :)
# [13:10] <frojnd> moo-_-: in android we have API service that is responisble for safe delivery of json request to restful service and save response of json response from restful web service. This is achieved with Processor part that is responsible for adding 2 columns into database one with result flag and one with status flagged.
# [13:11] <moo-_-> frojnd: this question goes to "do not care" category
# [13:11] <frojnd> moo-_-: this way if there is an exceptional event (internet coneciton drop, phone call, server fails) request will always be safely delivered to server or response back to client in this case android
# [13:11] <frojnd> moo-_-: yeah I know... I'm just introducing to my real queston :)
# [13:12] <frojnd> moo-_-: my real questin is, what mechanism can I use this in web application for mobile using html5, css, javascript
# [13:13] <frojnd> It's obvious I need database, preferably indexedDB for mobile phone (android, ios in ad windows phone) I'll use polyfill as a adapter for not supported devics
# [13:13] <frojnd> what mechanism could I use for this safety devlivering requests and getting responses in web app on mobile?
# [13:14] <frojnd> Do I have to write everything by myself or are there any solutions that are already working?
# [13:14] <frojnd> or is this still in "do not care" category? :)
# [13:16] <moo-_-> frojnd: is it a HTML5 app?
# [13:16] <moo-_-> I know nothing about "android API services" or "safe delivery"
# [13:16] <frojnd> it is going to be yes, I'm reasearching my options
# [13:16] <moo-_-> in HTML we have this thing called AJAX
# [13:17] <moo-_-> and you get a HTTP response in the return so you know if the request made it or not
# [13:17] <moo-_-> :)
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# [13:17] <frojnd> moo-_-: and this works independently if I use json for sending messages from client -> server and server-> client and server uses restful web service?
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# [13:18] <moo-_-> frojnd: if you need only client-initiated communication use AJAX. If you need client-initiated and server-initiated messaging use WebSockets.
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# [13:19] <frojnd> moo-_-: so WebSockets are used when server would send data and phone woul register that and to its work?
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# [13:20] <moo-_-> frojnd: WebSocket is basically HTTP-aware TCP/IP socket
# [13:20] <moo-_-> so it can do the same things as TCP/IP
# [13:20] <frojnd> moo-_-: what happens if client sends requests, server gets it and before server sends it back, client looses internet connection?
# [13:20] <frojnd> moo-_-: aha ok
# [13:21] <moo-_-> frojnd: this question is not specific to HTTP, HTML5. It is generic networking question.
# [13:21] <moo-_-> frojnd: client never gets ACK the message passed through
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# [13:23] <frojnd> yeah it really is generic question hm. Probaby javascript and database problem. Like I tried to explain for android how they have nicely structured solution for this kind of sceraios.
# [13:24] <frojnd> s/sceraios/scenarios
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# [14:32] <[Tyrant]> morning
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# [14:38] <moo-_-> frojnd: HTTP is what you get. But the characteristics of HTTP requests are very well-covered topic, so you should not be in short of tutorials, etc.
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# [14:55] <digifiv5e> anyone familiar with web inspector in safari? Is there a way to expand all html elements to better view the source? or do I have to click each one individually on page refresh to expand them all?
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# [15:11] <Brody_> Hi, Im a novice. I am trying to understand the structure behind 'a browser game'. The user loads up the webpage and is playing the game. Is his computer being sent javascript output? Is the game written in a different language? I am learning haskell and python at the moment. I have made a few little games. What I dont understand is how they would be put into a web page. Also, why is javascript the only compatible web language if it is
# [15:12] <Brody_> ..compared to alternatives. You dont have to explain these simple things to me, just a link to a good article would be great. I am finding it hard to find the answers Im looking for. Cheers
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# [15:18] <Ms2ger> Brody_, their local browser would execute javascript, which would call into the DOM/HTML to render the graphics to their screen
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# [16:26] <[Tyrant]> is there a easy way to download a html’s node and styling ?
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# [17:58] <DeltaHeavy> I want to use something similar to the mobile navigation menu at http://getbootstrap.com. The button with the 3 bars, would it be alright to make that an anchor tag then have the <nav> inside of it? Having trouble getting my specific setup CLEANLY going with JS. What I'm actually trying to do is here: https://silvercreekit.com/old/
# [17:58] <DeltaHeavy> (mind the cert)
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# [18:00] <tandroid> DeltaHeavy: Why would it matter if that's an anchor tag if you need js to open the menu?
# [18:00] <DeltaHeavy> tandroid: I'm using a <button> right now. I was wondering if an <a> with a <nav> nested in it would be considered unsemantical.
# [18:00] <DeltaHeavy> You CAN'T nest a <nav> in a <button>.
# [18:00] <tandroid> Yes I absolutely think it would
# [18:01] <tandroid> or an anchor
# [18:01] <tandroid> I mean you can but there is no need
# [18:01] <DeltaHeavy> You think what would? Sorry I'm a little confused
# [18:01] <tandroid> it would be bad to put <nav> inside of <a>
# [18:01] <DeltaHeavy> Ah, nested <a> won't work either as it'll have other <a>s...
# [18:02] <Jon47> DeltaHeavy: if it's not a link with an "href", you should probably not be using an <a> tag for the top level thing here
# [18:02] <DeltaHeavy> Yeah, I see what you mean. I guess that answers my question. Thanks!
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# [18:03] <DeltaHeavy> Would it be acceptable to make the button a <div> instead of a <button> and put it all in there? How would you guys go about doing this in a semantically correct way?
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# [18:03] <tandroid> Yeah I would do that.
# [18:03] <DeltaHeavy> Awesome, thanks!
# [18:03] <tandroid> Actually, You have this all wrong I think
# [18:04] <tandroid> You don't need the whole menu within that button. It just looks like that's what's happening.
# [18:04] <tandroid> Use your browser developer tools and look at how bootstrap works
# [18:04] <DeltaHeavy> tandroid: I know, I just thought it might be more organized and easier to work with if the nav was inside what you click to expose it. On a desktop/laptop you wouldn't even see the button, just the menu.
# [18:05] <DeltaHeavy> tandroid: I did, I'm not doing the menu exactly the same though which introduced a few problems.
# [18:06] <tandroid> Why change what already works?
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# [18:07] <tandroid> It sounds like much more work than it's worth
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# [18:07] <DeltaHeavy> tandroid: I thought you meant specifically how it's done on getbootstrap.com
# [18:08] <DeltaHeavy> Yeah, I could do with digging a bit deeper I guess.
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# [18:09] <tandroid> DeltaHeavy: What I'm saying is that usually you would just have a button that does something like toggle the visibility of another element. not a button that hides stuff inside of it.
# [18:10] <DeltaHeavy> tandroid: Yeah, I wasn't planning on doing it that latter way anyway. Things were just getting messy the way I'm going about it right now
# [18:10] <tandroid> Oh I see. Sorry, I guess I was confused
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# [21:06] <developer> Hello, I am a young developer. I seeking advice on building a responsive website. Is is wise to use a CMS like drupal? Or I should just code by hand with a Responsive Framework like Bootstrap.
# [21:08] * developer is now known as shaneolondo
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# [21:08] <markisonfire> developer: you’re throwing around buzzwords without looking at the site’s purpose
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# [21:08] <shaneolondo> sorry
# [21:08] <markisonfire> What is the site for?
# [21:09] <markisonfire> What’s it’s purpose?
# [21:09] <shaneolondo> forgive me. I made a mistake
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# [21:10] <markisonfire> I’m not trying to make you feel badly, but it will help you grow to define what a site needs rather than what you think you ought to use
# [21:11] <shaneolondo> it is for a church
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# [21:11] <markisonfire> Okay. What are they going to be doing one their site?
# [21:11] <shaneolondo> to show sermon videos, calendar, pictures and events
# [21:11] <markisonfire> Okay. How often will they be updating this information?
# [21:12] <shaneolondo> possibly daily or twice per week
# [21:12] <shaneolondo> but I figure that some sections will be updated often
# [21:13] <markisonfire> Okay. Then a CMS is likely a wise choice for an assumedly less tech-savvy client
# [21:13] <shaneolondo> right my clients only have operational knowledge of the pc
# [21:14] <markisonfire> Assume they know nothing, but yeah.
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# [21:14] <markisonfire> Well, next question, then. What CMS do you know how to build for?
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# [21:15] <shaneolondo> I have never used a CMS before, I have watched videos and installed drupal, wordpress and joomla but I never had a need to use them
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# [21:17] <markisonfire> Well.
# [21:17] <shaneolondo> based on what I have seen however, CMS is not difficult but I do not have much experience, hence I ask for guidance
# [21:17] <markisonfire> Do you have any experience with a server-side language?
# [21:19] <shaneolondo> I have primarily been a desktop application developer with Java. My experience with the web is in the creation of static pages
# [21:19] <shaneolondo> I have not done any real server side programming
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# [21:23] <markisonfire> shaneolondo: well, good luck
# [21:24] <markisonfire> pick one and just do it
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# [21:25] <shaneolondo> maskisonfire: ok thank you
# [21:25] <doctrv> I will say that WordPress is a bit more client-friendly, especially if the clients aren't tech-savvy
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# [21:27] <shaneolondo> doctrv: wordpress? What are my options as a developer? Am I limited in my ability to customize?
# [21:28] <doctrv> shaneolondo: you are only limited by your imagination with Wordpress. Everything is customisable as a developer
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# [21:29] <shaneolondo> doctrv:ok I will give wordpress a try
# [21:29] <markisonfire> It’s no different with Drupal though
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# [21:30] <doctrv> yea, drupal's the same amount of customisation
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# [21:33] <shaneolondo> yes but I like the client friendliness, considering that :doctrv is right with his statements
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# [21:33] <shaneolondo> *about wordpress
# [21:34] <markisonfire> okay.
# [21:34] <doctrv> shaneolondo: You could install both and use them, see which you think is better. My opinion is just my opinion, others have different ones :)
# [21:36] <shaneolondo> :) okay
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# [23:35] <OODavo> Is there a way to get a chatlog display like this http://jsfiddle.net/b3H8j/ but without setting a fixed width on the labels? I'd like all the labels to be just-wide-enough for the longest one to fit.
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# [23:39] <OODavo> It seems like the flex stuff *should* be able to do this, but I don't think it can "see" more than one layer of elements (the flex items) so it's complicated.
# [23:42] <OODavo> It's easy enough using flex-wrap and <dl>, but apparently <dl> doesn't have the correct semantics for a chatlog so hmm.
# [23:43] <OODavo> Also, I'm not sure it's actually easy with flex-wrap, now I think about it. :P
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# [23:55] <hackhalo2> alright, so I'm looking for a way to have a wedding card-like card open up to display a video, and google is giving me stupid results.
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# [23:55] <hackhalo2> how would one acheive this, or what is a good resource for me to attempt to do it myself
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# Session Close: Wed Mar 26 00:00:00 2014

The end :)