/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-07-10 / end

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  77. # [01:45] <ablegreen> Since the FileSystem and FileWriter API are no longer supported/maintained, what alternatives are there for accessing the file system?
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  177. # [04:40] <SuperSonicSound> heya
  178. # [04:42] <SuperSonicSound> If I have a background image, like <body background="images/bcg.jpg"> (no fancy CSS), what is the best way to make the whole image fill the browser window, and also not scroll when the page is scrolled.
  179. # [04:42] <SuperSonicSound> ?
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  181. # [04:49] <paintedbicycle> SuperSonicSound You can look into the background-size property of CSS
  182. # [04:49] <paintedbicycle> SuperSonicSound Perhaps background-position too
  183. # [04:50] <paintedbicycle> SuperSonicSound This may start you on your way: http://css-tricks.com/perfect-full-page-background-image/
  184. # [04:50] <SuperSonicSound> It's in HTML, not CSS.
  185. # [04:51] <paintedbicycle> HTML only includes the file. CSS makes it look a certain way. If you want to put your CSS inline with your HTML as you have done in your example, you may do so
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  187. # [04:53] <SuperSonicSound> hmmm
  188. # [04:53] <SuperSonicSound> I hadn't planned to use CSS, but I guess I'll check it out.
  189. # [04:53] <SuperSonicSound> I thought you could just use HTML for everything.
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  191. # [04:56] <paintedbicycle> SuperSonicSound You don't need a CSS file separately, it can all be in your HTML. So continuing your example, <body background="images/bcg.jpg" style="background-size: cover;">
  192. # [04:56] <paintedbicycle> You can put all your styles inside the style="" attribute
  193. # [04:56] <SuperSonicSound> Ahh, I see what you mean.
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  195. # [04:57] <SuperSonicSound> Thanks
  196. # [04:57] <paintedbicycle> In the end, it's best to have a CSS file, because likely you'll use more. But you have the option. Good luck!
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  216. # [05:39] <gde33> paintedbicycle: make a long train of requests so that the page takes ages to load
  217. # [05:39] <gde33> very popular
  218. # [05:40] <gde33> bandwith is cheap nowadays but ping can be aweful
  219. # [05:40] <paintedbicycle> gde33 What are we talking about here?
  220. # [05:41] <gde33> that the image wont be requested until the css is loaded and the css wont be requested until the html loads
  221. # [05:41] <gde33> <body style="datauri"> would work in 1 request
  222. # [05:42] <gde33> <body background="datauri"> would work in 1 request
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  224. # [05:42] <gde33> if I test my site with a service at the other end of the world each request takes up to 2 seconds
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  226. # [05:43] <paintedbicycle> gde33 Ah, I see. Yes, for small sites, everything in the HTML makes sense. Unfortunately, small sites are rare
  227. # [05:43] <gde33> why small sites?
  228. # [05:44] <gde33> what is the benefit of having 6 second load time in stead of 2?
  229. # [05:44] <gde33> ah you mean small images?
  230. # [05:45] <gde33> right?
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  430. # [11:25] <slicknick> the goal/desire is to create a web based site/page that is view/browse/useable-able from any platform/browser/OS (essentially device/interaction interface agnostic) that will accept/handle/sanitize input and store/send/save it to a database. seeking proven and viable suggestions/concoctions of technologies/languages/tools to achieve this swift- and succinct-ly. anyone?
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  504. # [12:42] <randomsom> i feel like such a nerd coming here
  505. # [12:44] <moo-_-> randomsom: you are welcome
  506. # [12:44] <randomsom> yeah, but like, guys, what's the point of html'ing?
  507. # [12:44] <randomsom> i got started back in the dial-up days... when efficient code meant load time differences, drastically
  508. # [12:45] <randomsom> why code anything by hand, when WYSIWYG and other editors are doing such decent jobs and will only get better?
  509. # [12:45] <randomsom> not to mention, when i started, a sound knowledge of basic html and javascript made you practically elite
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  511. # [12:45] <randomsom> there are just too many wanna-bees and skilled web coders around these days to want to compete with
  512. # [12:45] <moo-_-> randomsom: because you are wrong
  513. # [12:46] <randomsom> about what?
  514. # [12:46] <moo-_-> WYSIWYG editors are next to useless
  515. # [12:46] <randomsom> why is that?
  516. # [12:46] <randomsom> what is their major shortcoming?
  517. # [12:46] <moo-_-> and most of HTML today is generated programmatically from server-side applications
  518. # [12:46] <randomsom> so what is the use of intimate knowledge of html?
  519. # [12:46] <randomsom> at best, it seems like a useful skill for an advanced programmer
  520. # [12:46] <moo-_-> knowing HTML itself is not a goal
  521. # [12:46] <randomsom> and trivially easily to someone smart enough to be a good programmer
  522. # [12:46] <moo-_-> but you need HTML skills in any web development job
  523. # [12:47] <randomsom> wby get involved with web development in the first place? programming is dull
  524. # [12:47] <moo-_-> randomsom: for some people, it is not
  525. # [12:47] <randomsom> to me, HTML is a necessary evil for artists
  526. # [12:47] <moo-_-> please do not think everything is same as yourself
  527. # [12:47] <randomsom> just as much as it is a tool for developers
  528. # [12:48] <randomsom> i was more interested in content presentation than i ever was in back-end
  529. # [12:48] <randomsom> and to me, ultimately, something like adobe's dreamweaver should be good enough for all intents and purporses within 10 years
  530. # [12:48] <randomsom> it's not quite there yet, but why can't it be?
  531. # [12:48] <randomsom> and for that matter, why can't a CMS make itself within context?
  532. # [12:48] <randomsom> and when that technology inevitably happens, what good will web developers be?
  533. # [12:49] <moo-_-> randomsom: well there are obvious reasons because your idea has not manifested itself during the last 15 years
  534. # [12:49] <randomsom> i think it was largely a problem of bandwidth and technological barriers
  535. # [12:49] <moo-_-> for the same reason why people don't create computer programs by drawing diagrams
  536. # [12:49] <moo-_-> but still write source code
  537. # [12:49] <randomsom> like i said, in the dial-up days, shaving a few kilobytes off your code meant a lot
  538. # [12:49] <moo-_-> even though the industry has had good 50 years to make it happen
  539. # [12:50] <randomsom> pagemakers were horribly inefficient
  540. # [12:50] <randomsom> well, 90%+ of applications made aren't really wanted
  541. # [12:50] <randomsom> judging by how few successful independent apps there are
  542. # [12:50] <randomsom> vs how many aspiring app makers there are
  543. # [12:51] <randomsom> i mean, you can always get some shitty job programming software for major corporations or something
  544. # [12:51] <randomsom> but other than money, why bother?
  545. # [12:51] <randomsom> if your skills aren't used in a legitimate creative outlet, aren't they nothing but a form of elevated plumbing, for instance?
  546. # [12:51] <moo-_-> randomsom: as I said before, do not think all people are the same as you, that's your core mistake
  547. # [12:51] <randomsom> in the same way a plumber builds and fixes pipes, developers build and fix the web, software in general, and so on
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  549. # [12:51] <randomsom> but where do people get passion for that shit?
  550. # [12:52] <moo-_-> randomsom: why people are passionate about math?
  551. # [12:52] <moo-_-> you probably hate it
  552. # [12:52] <randomsom> let me ask you this... where do you get enough passion for html, to be here?
  553. # [12:52] <moo-_-> randomsom: I don't do it for passion, I do it for pragmatic reasons
  554. # [12:52] <randomsom> and i am not myself a noob... i keep up with the latest in html and css when i can
  555. # [12:52] <randomsom> do you make a living developing?
  556. # [12:52] <randomsom> not to be over-personal
  557. # [12:52] <moo-_-> randomsom: yes
  558. # [12:52] <randomsom> but i am trying to understand
  559. # [12:53] <randomsom> but, doesn't it ever get old?
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  561. # [12:53] <randomsom> don't you wish your job could just be automated?
  562. # [12:53] <moo-_-> well, I am not really a code slave what you probably think as a developer
  563. # [12:54] <randomsom> what is your primary function?
  564. # [12:54] <moo-_-> randomsom: HTML is just minimum expression needed to get my ideals to the world (of web)
  565. # [12:54] <randomsom> project manager or something like that?
  566. # [12:54] <moo-_-> I probably spend 0,1% of my work time to write HTML
  567. # [12:54] <moo-_-> so I don't see a problem there
  568. # [12:54] <moo-_-> randomsom: I am CTO
  569. # [12:55] <moo-_-> randomsom: you still need to express your idea in somehow (by drawing, by WYSIWYG, by writing source code)
  570. # [12:55] <moo-_-> randomsom: it doesn't magically jump from your brain to the world
  571. # [12:55] <randomsom> so why not just develop a rudimentary knowledge and call that that?
  572. # [12:55] <randomsom> you don't need to be a sophisticated expert to use html
  573. # [12:55] <moo-_-> randomsom: that is true
  574. # [12:55] <moo-_-> randomsom: and I am probably not
  575. # [12:56] <randomsom> and there are certainly more efficient means of acquiring relevant knowlege than an IRC channel, in this case at least
  576. # [12:56] <randomsom> so you must actually enjoy discussing HTML
  577. # [12:56] <randomsom> or at least watching people discuss it
  578. # [12:56] <moo-_-> it is mostly to keep up with the latest trends
  579. # [12:56] <moo-_-> maintaining your knowledge
  580. # [12:56] <moo-_-> and helping others
  581. # [12:56] <moo-_-> when you contribute to community, the community gives back to you
  582. # [12:56] <randomsom> that is the problem... HTML is embroiled in trends... the web is too much in its infancy
  583. # [12:57] <randomsom> i think one day that will change, it will mature
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  586. # [12:57] <moo-_-> randomsom: maybe
  587. # [12:57] <randomsom> it can't keep going on expanding and changing forever
  588. # [12:58] * Quits: aviraldg (~aviraldg@unaffiliated/aviraldg) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  589. # [12:58] <randomsom> or maybe it can, but what a nightmare that would be
  590. # [12:58] <randomsom> but i don't see any reason it can't all be automated
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  592. # [12:58] <randomsom> the standards simply have to get good enough
  593. # [12:58] <moo-_-> so
  594. # [12:58] <moo-_-> how do you automate it
  595. # [12:58] <moo-_-> you create a photoshop plugin which creates applications out of your sketches?
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  599. # [12:59] <randomsom> you hire somebody from India
  600. # [12:59] <randomsom> or you just forget about developing applications
  601. # [12:59] <randomsom> here is a REALLY interesting trend in the web
  602. # [12:59] <randomsom> many people are opting out of creating their own website
  603. # [12:59] <randomsom> and instead just make a page on facebook
  604. # [12:59] <randomsom> i know this doesn't apply to every need
  605. # [13:00] <moo-_-> randomsom: well that has been progess since early 2000
  606. # [13:00] <randomsom> but for many small and medium businesses, personal pages, etc on and on
  607. # [13:00] <moo-_-> so nothing new there
  608. # [13:00] <moo-_-> for normal person, there is no need to know HTML
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  610. # [13:00] <randomsom> a page on facebook serves their purposes better than having a site commisioned
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  612. # [13:00] <randomsom> for most, there is no need to ever hire a web designer o developer
  613. # [13:00] <randomsom> and the need is getting smaller by the day
  614. # [13:00] <randomsom> put it this way, you don't need to hire an expert to get basic excel spreadsheets done in the office
  615. # [13:01] <randomsom> in the same vein, i don't think web developers will be a hot item for that much longer in history
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  617. # [13:01] <moo-_-> well there will be still developers
  618. # [13:01] <moo-_-> as long as there will be digital services
  619. # [13:01] <randomsom> sort of like how a few people today still make their living working with horses... but 150 years ago, a huge percentage of people did
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  621. # [13:02] <moo-_-> and the trend of having more automation degress is not limited to web development
  622. # [13:02] <moo-_-> there won't be truck drivers when we have robotic cars
  623. # [13:02] <randomsom> and people who liked shoveling horse shit had a hard time picturing the future of automobiles
  624. # [13:02] <moo-_-> there won't be burger flippers as McDonals are replaced by automatic robots
  625. # [13:02] <randomsom> just as people who like tinkering with code have a hard time picturing the world of computing any other way
  626. # [13:02] <moo-_-> there won't be artists as algorithms replace creative designing
  627. # [13:02] <randomsom> yes, and no one will be a professional driver anymore
  628. # [13:02] <randomsom> semi trucks and cabs will drive themselves
  629. # [13:02] <randomsom> store shelves will stock themselves
  630. # [13:03] <randomsom> what will we do, when there are far more people willing to work than jobs available?
  631. # [13:03] <moo-_-> randomsom: I think you should discuss this matter with futurists or how those persons are called who map the future for us
  632. # [13:03] <moo-_-> personally I think this planet is screwed and we'll be nuked back to stone age in some point
  633. # [13:03] <moo-_-> pollution, etc.
  634. # [13:04] <moo-_-> in the words of game of thrones
  635. # [13:04] <moo-_-> all men must die
  636. # [13:04] <randomsom> yes, but the immediate problem is, i am trying to fill the void in my life with HTML
  637. # [13:04] <randomsom> and it's not working
  638. # [13:04] <randomsom> HTML can't give you an orgasm, even... unless you have a very bizarre fetish and an overactive nervous system
  639. # [13:05] <moo-_-> randomsom: well, maybe doing some body building and looking a career in adult movie industry?
  640. # [13:05] <randomsom> HTML can't keep you warm at night
  641. # [13:06] <randomsom> HTML can't cook you dinner
  642. # [13:06] <randomsom> HTML can't keep you in touch with old friends, usually
  643. # [13:06] <randomsom> well, unless you count social media
  644. # [13:06] <randomsom> but that's lonely in and of itself
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  816. # [17:31] <brownbathrobe> anyone familiar with the File API?
  817. # [17:31] <brownbathrobe> i am trying to force the browser to download an excel spreadsheet which comes in the response of a POST request...
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  820. # [17:33] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe Are you thinking of the download attribute? http://davidwalsh.name/download-attribute
  821. # [17:33] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe Not great browser support http://caniuse.com/download
  822. # [17:33] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe But in the end, it's up to the browser vendor how they handle files
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  824. # [17:34] <brownbathrobe> paintedbicycle: no, in my case i am POSTing to the server and it responds with an excel spreadsheet
  825. # [17:34] <brownbathrobe> i need to force the browser to download it
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  828. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> the server response is `typeof === string`
  829. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> and it looks like this:
  830. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> %PDF-1.4%�쏢5 0 obj
  831. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> <</Length 6 0 R/Filter /FlateDecode>>stream
  832. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> x��\��Fb;Me��
  833. # [17:35] <brownbathrobe> etc etc etc...
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  835. # [17:36] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe You can put some information in the response headers to tell the browser you want to get it to download instead of display in page: http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/creating/forcedownload.html
  836. # [17:37] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe Not sure how great the support is though
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  839. # [17:39] <brownbathrobe> paintedbicycle: thanks, i've looked into that stuff a little
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  841. # [17:39] <brownbathrobe> i'll keep digging
  842. # [17:39] <brownbathrobe> :)
  843. # [17:40] <paintedbicycle> brownbathrobe Good luck
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  846. # [17:41] <vlad_sta-> Question: Webkit-based browser (Safari/Chrome). Why this works fine "transition: opacity 0.5s 0.6s, -webkit-transform 0.5s 0.6s;" but this doesn't "transition: opacity 0.5s 0.6s, -webkit-transform 0.5s 0.6s, -moz-transform 0.5s 0.6s;"?
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  848. # [17:42] <okdamn> hello
  849. # [17:42] <okdamn> does exists the possibility to change tune on audio ?
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  851. # [17:43] <okdamn> applying tune effects i mean
  852. # [17:44] <paintedbicycle> okdamn Yes, using the Audio API
  853. # [17:44] <paintedbicycle> okdamn http://noisehack.com/custom-audio-effects-javascript-web-audio-api/
  854. # [17:44] <okdamn> paintedbicycle: but i cant get how to change tune :(
  855. # [17:45] <paintedbicycle> okdamn Are you trying to change the "pitch"? The frequency? i.e. To try to "auto-tune" or something like that?
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  858. # [17:46] <okdamn> paintedbicycle: change note tune it :)
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  860. # [17:48] <paintedbicycle> okdamn The "tune" of a note refers to the frequency of the sound being created. And yes, you can alter that. In the link I sent, the author creates several filters which adjust frequency
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  864. # [17:49] <paintedbicycle> vlad_sta You can get cross-browser CSS3 with this site (and others): http://css3please.com
  865. # [17:50] <paintedbicycle> vlad_sta- It can help get the right syntax
  866. # [17:50] <paintedbicycle> okdamn The full spec for the Audio API is here: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/audio/raw-file/tip/webaudio/specification.html
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  868. # [17:51] <okdamn> paintedbicycle: thanks trying looking into better
  869. # [17:52] <vlad_sta-> paintedbicycle: thank you so much! I just deal with it a moment before you wrote this message
  870. # [17:52] <vlad_sta-> paintedbicycle: added link to my bookmarks
  871. # [17:52] <paintedbicycle> vlad_sta- Not a problem :) Good luck
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  890. # [18:23] <assemblyx> hi
  891. # [18:24] <assemblyx> is there a way to position the error popups for forms?
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  897. # [18:27] <David_Bradbury> What error pop-ups are you talking about?
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  899. # [18:27] <assemblyx> like when you put required="" into an <input>
  900. # [18:27] <assemblyx> and hit submit
  901. # [18:28] <assemblyx> a default error message shows up
  902. # [18:28] <assemblyx> am i able to tell it to line up to the right of the element?
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  906. # [18:31] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Sounds like you're referring to the built-in browser form validation. This varies widely across browsers and can't really be changed with CSS
  907. # [18:31] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5478800/override-css-for-html5-form-validation-required-popup
  908. # [18:32] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx You can style the inputs though: http://css-tricks.com/almanac/selectors/r/required/ and http://css-tricks.com/almanac/selectors/i/invalid/
  909. # [18:32] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle, ya, was hoping to have a gbit of contorl over it
  910. # [18:33] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx You can have the HTML5 validation attributes in the HTML at page load, and then the JS you can enhance it by including your own validation
  911. # [18:33] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Best of both worlds and you get full style control
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  945. # [19:05] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle thanks, i have custom messages and borders set, the popup box isnt all that bad
  946. # [19:06] <assemblyx> be nice to custimize it though
  947. # [19:06] <assemblyx> customize*
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  949. # [19:08] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx I believe that the idea is that for UX, the user would see the same validation error style on every site and they would know what to do. If each site styled it, they might get confused. Having said that, you can enhance (remove + replace with your own) the validation with JS
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  952. # [19:09] <assemblyx> ya, im going to do that later, right now spend my time on other things more pressing
  953. # [19:09] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Yes, best to start with built-in validation. Glad it's working
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  958. # [19:14] <m00bles> I made a quick thing for hue-sorting images. http://jsbin.com/dutelaje/1
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  969. # [19:24] <brownbathrobe> is anyone familiar with character encoding?
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  1004. # [19:45] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle, it is right buggy when you add custom messages, im just going to leave it all default for now
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  1007. # [19:45] <assemblyx> like i added $("addPassword").setCustomValidity("At least 8 characters\nAt least 1 number\nAt least 1 lowercase (a-z)\nAt least 1 uppercase (A-Z)\nOnly 0-9, a-z, A-Z allowed");
  1008. # [19:46] <assemblyx> to set a message for password
  1009. # [19:46] <assemblyx> when i submit it keeps showing the error message even if i pass the regexp
  1010. # [19:46] <assemblyx> if i commment out the custom message it works
  1011. # [19:47] <assemblyx> so for some reason setting the custom message is messing with the validator, does it for emails too
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  1056. # [20:35] <assemblyx> what is the best local storage method to use?
  1057. # [20:35] <assemblyx> i saw that web sql is no longer being active?
  1058. # [20:36] * Parts: divya1 (~divya1@sjfw1-b.adobe.com)
  1059. # [20:36] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx You can either use localStorage or IndexedDB http://caniuse.com/indexeddb
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  1061. # [20:36] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle am i able to store thousands of records?
  1062. # [20:37] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx There is also a very nice to use wrapper library that helps use whatever one is available in the user's browser https://github.com/mozilla/localForage
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  1064. # [20:37] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Haven't tried with that many
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  1066. # [20:38] <paintedbicycle> But indexeddb would allow for much more than localStorage
  1067. # [20:38] <assemblyx> well i will let you know, i have about 10,000 records im going to try and put in local storage
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  1070. # [20:39] <assemblyx> it has name, 3 date columns, and 3 other varchar(30)
  1071. # [20:40] <assemblyx> my ifrst time using local storage so should be interesting
  1072. # [20:41] <paintedbicycle> Use that localForage wrapper
  1073. # [20:41] <paintedbicycle> It's any easy syntax and has fallbacks for all browsers
  1074. # [20:41] <assemblyx> im not worried so much about browser, im able to control the browser
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  1156. # [22:24] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle you still here?
  1157. # [22:24] * Parts: divya1 (~divya1@sjfw1-b.adobe.com)
  1158. # [22:25] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Yep
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  1160. # [22:26] <assemblyx> paintedbicycle for web storage looks like you set an id and in the field you store the rest of the data in an array
  1161. # [22:27] <assemblyx> so there is no way of doing innerjoins from what i can see
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  1166. # [22:29] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx Yeah, you can't do all the SQL stuff. But there are some examples from indexeddb here: https://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/06/comparing-indexeddb-and-webdatabase/
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  1168. # [22:31] <assemblyx> thanks man
  1169. # [22:31] <assemblyx> i was heading in the wrong direction
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  1171. # [22:33] <assemblyx> ya, this is what im talking about..... : )
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  1177. # [22:38] <paintedbicycle> assemblyx lol. Awesome. Good luck
  1178. # [22:39] <eltigre> nowadays you never know what nerds mean with "assembly".... the language or the bioinformatics concept?
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  1182. # [22:41] <luist> hey guys… how can i identify if the client is accessing the website using a mobile device or a desktop?
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  1187. # [22:42] <paintedbicycle> luist Easiest way would likely be Google Analytics Real Time tab
  1188. # [22:42] <paintedbicycle> luist But you could get into server logs, I guess
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  1257. # [23:47] <tarekshumaila> Hi All, quick question
  1258. # [23:48] <tarekshumaila> php one, so I am looking to pass a variable from my url into a form that goes into antoher page
  1259. # [23:48] <tarekshumaila> www.page.com?id=1
  1260. # [23:49] <tarekshumaila> i want to pass id to another page via form that submits to another page
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  1264. # [23:58] <David_Bradbury> If the security of it doesn't really matter, you can put it in a hidden field. Otherwise, you'll want to store the value on your server or in the session and grab it after
  1265. # [23:58] <tarekshumaila> security doesnt matter
  1266. # [23:58] <tarekshumaila> how do i set up the hidden field exactly?
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  1270. # Session Close: Fri Jul 11 00:00:00 2014

The end :)