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- # [09:43] <RominRonin> hi
- # [09:44] <RominRonin> Im working for a marketing agency and I develop websites, web pages and also web apps for them. We recently had the discussion about browser compatibility.
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- # [09:45] <RominRonin> My instinct wants to stick with jquery 2.x + and leave behind all older, incompatible browsers
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- # [09:45] <RominRonin> but my boss naturally wants to go further back (as far back as ie7 in some cases)
- # [09:46] <RominRonin> what are the arguments for compatibility with ie7, ie8 for example - considering my boss wants fancy animations and modern looking sites that work with mobile devices
- # [09:47] <moo-_-> RominRonin: the cost of supporting older browsers go up every day
- # [09:47] <moo-_-> RominRonin: just give basic plain text site for those browsers
- # [09:48] <RominRonin> @moo-_- Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, especially for eg. ie6.
- # [09:48] <RominRonin> @moo-_- Does this argument hold for ie7 too do you think?
- # [09:48] <moo-_-> of course
- # [09:48] <moo-_-> it works everything which has word Microsoft in its name
- # [09:49] <RominRonin> :)))
- # [09:49] <moo-_-> but I am not your boss, so I think your organization has a social problem if you need to come ask arguments for things like in this in internet
- # [09:49] <moo-_-> if your management personel are not capable I suggest consider alternative employment options
- # [09:50] <RominRonin> lol
- # [09:50] <RominRonin> that’s exactly where I’m at right now
- # [09:50] <RominRonin> I’m looking around - I don’t think I should need to argue these things
- # [09:51] <RominRonin> @moo-_- Thx
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- # [09:55] <moo-_-> if the company management works in internet industry and does not follow what's happening around them then the long term prospects of the particular company are not very promising
- # [09:56] <davidyezsetz> RominRonin I use latest -1 Version as a baseline for browser support
- # [09:56] <davidyezsetz> everything else costs the client extra
- # [09:56] <davidyezsetz> if you need arguments increased development / testing time is always valid
- # [09:57] <davidyezsetz> I would also try to asses wether or not it’s needed
- # [09:57] <davidyezsetz> e.g. gather user data
- # [09:57] <RominRonin> yeah, the assessment of needed/not needed is the argument he’s making
- # [09:57] <davidyezsetz> do you have real user data?
- # [09:57] <davidyezsetz> we have a big client who always wants IE8 for the sole reason that it’s used internally
- # [09:58] <RominRonin> I’m encouraging user data before committing to really old compatibility
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- # [09:58] <RominRonin> how do you argue with the ie8 client
- # [09:58] <RominRonin> or do you accept the argument?
- # [09:58] <davidyezsetz> yeah
- # [09:58] <davidyezsetz> if there is a valid market that uses ie8 you support it
- # [09:59] <davidyezsetz> but if I have to I make sure from the very beginning that it’s clear to everyone that this will result in larger costs & slower development
- # [09:59] <RominRonin> Fair enough - I was given an argument FOR CSS animations because many companies block javascript internally as its a security risk
- # [09:59] <RominRonin> which I think is a crock
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- # [09:59] <davidyezsetz> that actually brings me to another ponit
- # [10:00] <RominRonin> @davidyezsetz go on :)
- # [10:00] <davidyezsetz> When we need to support IE8 we make sure layout is correct everything works etc...
- # [10:00] <davidyezsetz> however animations and css3 goodies won’t be present
- # [10:00] <davidyezsetz> we don’t bother with fallback animations in JS (unless it is vital to understand a certain ui, which hasn’t been the case so far)
- # [10:01] <davidyezsetz> also no media queries
- # [10:01] <RominRonin> I agree with all of this, the trouble I have is convincing narrow minded employers of all this
- # [10:02] <davidyezsetz> took me a good year to get everyone on board here ;)
- # [10:02] <RominRonin> I think I’ll add the argument of development time to my modest reportoire
- # [10:02] <RominRonin> @moo
- # [10:02] <davidyezsetz> be persistent and always try to back it up with data because common sense is lost on some people :)
- # [10:02] <RominRonin> @moo-_-, @davidyezsetz Thanks guys/gals
- # [10:02] <davidyezsetz> anytime :)
- # [10:03] <RominRonin> re: commone sense - you got that right
- # [10:03] <RominRonin> as they say, common sense is not so common
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- # [10:03] <moo-_-> RominRonin: no problem
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- # [10:06] <davidyezsetz> The reason I don’t polyfill media-queries is because we got a lot of complains like : ie8 looks broken in mobile view
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- # [10:06] <davidyezsetz> “Let me just get my smartphone running ie8 to check….oh wait…”
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- # [10:06] <RominRonin> what is polyfilling?
- # [10:07] <moo-_-> RominRonin: emulating new features on old browsers
- # [10:07] <RominRonin> i see
- # [10:07] <davidyezsetz> mostly with javascript
- # [10:07] <moo-_-> or... doing hacks over hacks to "make them work" :)
- # [10:07] <RominRonin> ok
- # [10:07] <RominRonin> yeah, that’s something I avoid like the plague
- # [10:07] <moo-_-> RominRonin: in any case
- # [10:07] <RominRonin> I like to use the tools available to me in the way they were intended
- # [10:07] <moo-_-> this site is good source http://caniuse.com/
- # [10:07] <davidyezsetz> yep me, too
- # [10:07] <RominRonin> yeah, i use it
- # [10:07] <moo-_-> if somebody asks for "animation" then show "here is what browsers can do CSS animation"
- # [10:08] <davidyezsetz> also since we started telling customers if they want IE8 to work there will be heavy limitaions they are all ok with it
- # [10:08] <RominRonin> but it looks like they ran of green when colouring in the internet explorer column…
- # [10:08] <moo-_-> RominRonin: :)
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- # [10:10] <RominRonin> :)
- # [10:10] <RominRonin> that’s a good point thou - these are the browsers that CAN DO what you ask for
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- # [10:19] <davidyezsetz> RominRonin http://html5please.com/ is also a good reference if you’re unsure how to handle a certain feature
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- # [10:21] <moo-_-> ooh text-stroke is coming
- # [10:21] <moo-_-> maybe on my lifetime
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- # [10:28] <davidyezsetz> you can fake text stroke with pseudo elements ;)
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- # [10:29] <xec> or text-shadow
- # [10:30] <davidyezsetz> true
- # [10:30] <moo-_-> xec: I have been using the text shadow trick, but it is far from perfect
- # [10:31] <xec> yeah, but since text-stroke isn't part of any standard i don't think it will be available any time soon
- # [10:32] <davidyezsetz> probably not
- # [10:33] <davidyezsetz> although I’m cuious why. Wasn’t there a strike element once which achieved this
- # [10:34] <RominRonin> @davidyezsetz thanks - that site is a GREAT resource
- # [10:35] <xec> davidyezsetz: iirc that was for strikethrough
- # [10:37] <xec> as in css text-decoration: line-through;
- # [10:38] <davidyezsetz> right
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- # [15:35] <phoenixsun> are there some go resources for debugging code (that works on every other browser) on Internet Explorer?
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- # [15:51] <moo-_-> phoenixsun: which IE version?
- # [15:52] <phoenixsun> moo-_-: well 8 -10 I think I will ignore the rest
- # [15:52] <phoenixsun> well and 11
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- # [15:53] <moo-_-> phoenixsun: I would suggest using Internet Explorer's own JavaScript debugger
- # [15:53] <moo-_-> I think it is available from version 9 onwards
- # [15:53] <moo-_-> also use VMs
- # [15:53] <moo-_-> http://opensourcehacker.com/2011/12/15/install-internet-explorer-6-ie9-virtual-machines-on-any-os-using-one-liner-script-and-virtual-box/
- # [15:54] <phoenixsun> I was just reading up on that
- # [15:54] <phoenixsun> thaks
- # [15:54] <phoenixsun> thanks*
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- # [15:57] <phoenixsun> Microsoft seems to have made some effort in IE compatibility testing area - https://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools
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- # [17:09] <kaotiko> hi
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- # [20:20] <hooly> wordpress seo by joost is giving me a blank "edit.php?post_type=page" page (pages admin area). anyone else getting this error?
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- # [20:20] <hooly> when activated.
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- # [21:03] <Nove> Hey all
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- # [21:04] <Nove> Can anyone here help me little problem I have with a page? I'm trying to incorperate some kind of submitable feedback/testimonial that I can display through my already existing scroller
- # [21:04] <Nove> The scroller is using javascript
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- # [21:05] <Nove> I had one on a website that you could sumbit, but I'm trying to make it look more professional
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- # [21:40] <preyalone> What's a good way to write an anchor that points to the same page? I'm using <a href="">(Title)</a>, but HTML Tidy doesn't like that.
- # [21:43] <Nove> use the id
- # [21:43] <Nove> <a id="blah">blah section</a>
- # [21:43] <boogyman> preyalone: should it point to the same state, or just the same page. eg: domain/path?query=b#hash vs /domain/path vs domain/
- # [21:43] <preyalone> just the same page
- # [21:44] <preyalone> this is more of a static html file question
- # [21:44] <preyalone> for dynamic files, i just use a web framework to help generate urls
- # [21:44] <boogyman> your server-side language should be able to assist you in building the "current domain/path"
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- # [21:46] <preyalone> again, this would be for static files, no web framework involved
- # [21:46] <boogyman> hard-code the value then
- # [21:46] <boogyman> and you don't need a "web framework" to render a "static" page with a server-side language
- # [21:47] <preyalone> this .html file may be deployed to any number of servers, with different hostnames, top-level directories, etc.
- # [21:47] <preyalone> boogyman: yes, we are repeating each other's information.
- # [21:48] <boogyman> so don't repeat each other's information
- # [21:48] <preyalone> i've got working code for this: <a href="">My Super Duper Website</a>
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- # [21:48] <preyalone> but HTML Tidy doesn't like that
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- # Session Close: Thu Jul 31 00:00:00 2014
The end :)