/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-08-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Aug 12 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  27. # [00:21] <buzzlewoo> anyone know how to require that at least 1 checkbox in a checkbox group be checked?
  28. # [00:21] <boogyman> buzzlewoo: you can, it's called radio buttons
  29. # [00:21] <boogyman> radio inputs*
  30. # [00:21] <buzzlewoo> I don't want radio buttons. that's one-only
  31. # [00:22] <buzzlewoo> I want 1 or more, but at *least* one
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  35. # [00:23] <boogyman> You can put the "required" attribute on them, but the specification (and all UAs I know of) do not enforce it by default. you would need JS
  36. # [00:24] <buzzlewoo> yeah well I am using parsley jquery and but I dont see how to work it in
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  38. # [00:26] <buzzlewoo> thanks, tho, boogyman
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  46. # [00:30] <boogyman> I'm asking some of the spec guys now
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  48. # [00:31] <boogyman> If it's something on the roadmap as a potential use-case
  49. # [00:33] <boogyman> buzzlewoo: it shouldn't be too difficult to create an implementation for that use-case though
  50. # [00:34] <buzzlewoo> workin on it..trouble is I'm green in the world o' jquery
  51. # [00:34] <buzzlewoo> however, I'm not the only one with this issue..
  52. # [00:35] <boogyman> buzzlewoo: should be easy to accomplish without the use of a framework
  53. # [00:35] <buzzlewoo> this is for a class I'm taking requiring use of this framework, but ya, ultimately will need to do it without
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  55. # [00:36] <buzzlewoo> I don't think the java script shud be that tough...if check = false on any, return false...something like that
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  78. # [01:02] <boogyman> buzzlewoo: the spec editors request that you file a bug http://www.w3.org/Bugs/ with your use-case, and it will enter the life-cycle.
  79. # [01:02] <buzzlewoo> no kidding?
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  81. # [01:02] <buzzlewoo> this is a bug?
  82. # [01:03] <buzzlewoo> happy to do it..
  83. # [01:03] <buzzlewoo> how do you suggest I phrase it?
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  85. # [01:03] <boogyman> Everything starts as a bug, but if chosen, it would be implemented as a "feature".
  86. # [01:03] <buzzlewoo> ok..I get it..
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  90. # [01:05] <boogyman> I would sanitize your specific use-case, describe the requested functionality, reference how it would differ from <select multiple>, etc...
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  92. # [01:06] <buzzlewoo> Gee..now that I look at it, select multiple gets it done...
  93. # [01:07] <buzzlewoo> it's the requirements of a homework that it be checkboxes
  94. # [01:07] <buzzlewoo> but that's not the W3 consortium's problem
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  96. # [01:07] <buzzlewoo> I'll submit it just the same
  97. # [01:08] <boogyman> Your homework probably specifies checkboxes because it's forcing you to use both HTML and JS
  98. # [01:08] <buzzlewoo> well he pointed us to parsley.js which spozedly has this feature built in but many report it broken
  99. # [01:08] <boogyman> or whatever server-side language (which should be done anyway since requests can be made without HTML interaction at all.
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  101. # [01:08] <buzzlewoo> hmm
  102. # [01:10] <buzzlewoo> what's an example of making requests without HTML interaction at all.
  103. # [01:10] <boogyman> using a REST client, or in the command line via a curl (/ similar) statement.
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  107. # [01:23] <buzzlewoo> boogyman, which product should I enter the bug on? HTML WG?
  108. # [01:23] <buzzlewoo> or HTML.next: feature suggestions for the next version of HTML
  109. # [01:24] <boogyman> sure?
  110. # [01:24] <boogyman> latter
  111. # [01:24] <buzzlewoo> starts as a bug..ends as a feature
  112. # [01:24] <buzzlewoo> ok
  113. # [01:24] <buzzlewoo> we rollin..
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  128. # [01:40] <buzzlewoo> boogyman: how is it achieved with 1 checkbox with a TOS and you must check to show that you have read the terms, and/or agree with them...what prevents User advancing in that scenario
  129. # [01:41] <boogyman> add a "required" attribute. <input type=checkbox name=foo required>
  130. # [01:42] <buzzlewoo> ah, but in multiple checkboxes that wouldn't work..ok I see..
  131. # [01:42] <buzzlewoo> dang
  132. # [01:42] <buzzlewoo> filling out this report..almost done
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  398. # [09:44] <hal16> How can I use javascript to replace the current web page's content with all entirely new javascript and html
  399. # [09:46] <Terminus-> hal16: by altering the DOM
  400. # [09:46] <hal16> how would I do that? I already have all the content I want to replace saved as an html file
  401. # [09:46] <hal16> what js function would I substitute
  402. # [09:46] <hal16> that I could call back to replace it with my html
  403. # [09:46] <hal16> and js
  404. # [09:49] <Terminus-> hal16: that is beyond the scope of what i am prepared to type. you should learn how to write javascript, probably read http://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596805531.do cover to cover too.
  405. # [09:49] <hal16> i dont have the time
  406. # [09:50] <hal16> what would you be willing to help me for
  407. # [09:50] <Terminus-> hal16: theoretically, you should be able to retrieve the new content from teh server asynchronously, remove all existing content and append new content.
  408. # [09:51] <Terminus-> i think that's as far as i go. if you don't have the time, you should probably hire somebody who can get it done for you.
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  410. # [09:51] <hal16> I can only inject javascript into an existing web page
  411. # [09:51] <hal16> in this scenario
  412. # [09:52] <Terminus-> one thing i'm not sure of is how the removal of script elements for the currently executing code affects the execution of said code.
  413. # [09:52] <Terminus-> hal16: you pack the data into the javascript code then.
  414. # [09:53] <hal16> i mean the actually html
  415. # [09:53] <hal16> doesnt have to change
  416. # [09:53] <hal16> i cant do it with
  417. # [09:53] <hal16> document.write()
  418. # [09:53] <hal16> because it wont execute propperly
  419. # [09:53] <Terminus-> of course you can't.
  420. # [09:53] <hal16> well i know you can embed html that way
  421. # [09:54] <Terminus-> document.write() is a poor way of modifying a page. i never use it.
  422. # [09:54] <hal16> well the idea was it replaces the appearance of all html with whatever you stick in there
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  424. # [09:55] <hal16> i tried doing it with an iframe
  425. # [09:55] <hal16> but it doesn't fill the whole page even with width and height set to 100%
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  429. # [10:05] <Terminus-> hal16: if that's all you want, i'd stick the iframe as an immediate child of the body element, set absolute positioning, and calculate position based on viewport/document width/height.
  430. # [10:05] <hal16> could I get the iframe to take up the entire screen? not have a small white boarder around it?
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  443. # [10:20] <Ms2ger> hal16, might need to set padding on the body or html to zero
  444. # [10:21] <hal16> ill give you a dollar if you show me how :d
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  446. # [10:22] <hal16> i cant get it to work
  447. # [10:23] <Terminus-> yeah, setting margin and padding to zero for both body and html would be simpler than calculating offsets for absolute positioning.
  448. # [10:23] <tobiski> and set iframe's border to none also
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  484. # [11:34] <dahlfors_> btw
  485. # [11:34] <dahlfors_> has anyone looked into using symbol fonts for logos, and what methods do you use for getting proper search engine optimization for company name?
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  487. # [11:35] <dahlfors_> my current approach is using symbol font for logo and having a <h1> that gets hidden with css. not sure if that's the best approach
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  493. # [11:41] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: I am not sure if SEO optimizing your logo gives any meaningful SEO increase
  494. # [11:41] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: so please make sure you are doing the right things in the first place
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  498. # [11:43] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: yeah. I'm quite unsure about that myself. I still would guess that it is a good thing if the company name is in the beginning of the document in the header with an <h1> tag.
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  500. # [11:43] <dahlfors_> what can be annoying these days is how google guesses the description of the site. sometimes it can pick wrong text from the front page
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  502. # [11:44] <Terminus-> i've always just gone with <h1><img src="..." alt="Company Name"></h1>
  503. # [11:44] <dahlfors_> we had to change copy on the front page a few rounds, because if you googled "company name", you end up with a description that didn't fit
  504. # [11:44] <moo-_-> Terminus-: but you know, symbol fonts are very front end hipsterish
  505. # [11:44] <Terminus-> whoops. forgot to enclose that in <header>
  506. # [11:45] * benjaminr is now known as BenjaminR
  507. # [11:45] <Terminus-> moo-_-: i don't even want to think about the effort that goes into that.
  508. # [11:45] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: well. we're going all responsive, have a logo that is very fitting for such use, and we have a lot of mobile users..
  509. # [11:45] <dahlfors_> so, doing as much as we can as symbols is very fitting for our use
  510. # [11:45] <dahlfors_> since we can use the same symbol font all around
  511. # [11:46] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: I heard that mobile browsers can also scale images :)
  512. # [11:46] <moo-_-> hopefully you are paid by the hour
  513. # [11:46] <Terminus-> sure, if you're a big company and logotype is your identity, go for it. what if your logotype isn't really your identity though?
  514. # [11:46] <dahlfors_> I'm a fulltime web dev at video streaming service
  515. # [11:46] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: but I understand your point
  516. # [11:47] <dahlfors_> web designer / web dev
  517. # [11:47] <dahlfors_> wouldn't go this path for a normal company site
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  520. # [11:48] <dahlfors_> Terminus-: logotype is just a part of the identity
  521. # [11:49] <dahlfors_> it is never the full identity
  522. # [11:49] <dahlfors_> not matter how big a company is
  523. # [11:49] <Terminus-> dahlfors_: yeah, if it's part of identity, you can still do <header><img src="..." alt="..."><p>Company Name</p></header>
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  528. # [11:50] * Terminus- is jumping on the html5 bandwagon after years of being a luddite
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  532. # [11:50] <dahlfors_> yes. been using the image solution for many years. now I have a variation of that for the symbol font solution. never seen any othe examples of how ppl do things like that
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  615. # [12:26] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: welcome to the frontier :)
  616. # [12:26] <moo-_-> to go boldly where no web developer has gone before...
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  620. # [12:30] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: hehe. thanks
  621. # [12:33] <dahlfors_> boldy go... and find bugs noone would have even imagined existed!
  622. # [12:33] <moo-_-> Android 2.3 is waiting for you at the other end of the galaxy
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  627. # [12:35] <dahlfors_> oh yes. we are a live streaming service, supporting around 600 devices... android, ios, bada, maemo, meego, symbian etc...
  628. # [12:36] <dahlfors_> going responsive will be a challenge :)
  629. # [12:36] <dahlfors_> but we can't really prioritize that our web works fine on all of those older devices. it's enough if they can run the mobile live streaming app
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  631. # [12:38] <moo-_-> lol meego
  632. # [12:38] <moo-_-> lol symbian
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  634. # [12:38] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: I feel so sorry for you
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  661. # [12:56] <dahlfors_> haha
  662. # [12:56] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: well. our company has been in the biz for quite a while. those platforms aren't really our prioritized platforms these days :)
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  665. # [12:57] <dahlfors_> the apps are there, no reason to remove them, and we'll let ppl use the apps as long as they want to. fortunately we can ignore that tiny percentage of users for the mobile web
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  667. # [12:57] <dahlfors_> but if it works partly, it's a plus of course
  668. # [12:57] * BenjaminR is now known as benjaminr
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  671. # [12:58] <dahlfors_> major focus is of course later androids and ios
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  673. # [12:58] <moo-_-> well, from the experience android + video is itself enough troubles
  674. # [12:58] <moo-_-> vendors tend to mess with the codecs little too much
  675. # [12:59] <dahlfors_> it is
  676. # [12:59] <dahlfors_> but we have our own transcoding server tech
  677. # [12:59] <moo-_-> "we have this proprietary SNOY video player. So cool. It just doesn't play the standard videos."
  678. # [12:59] <dahlfors_> our company contributes to vlc. one of our guys is very skilled with video. so he keeps the formats right
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  680. # [12:59] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: big +1 for that
  681. # [13:00] <dahlfors_> but yeah, making video embeds crossplatform mobile friendly is painful
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  685. # [13:01] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: yeah. most of us love opensource here in the company, noone is against him contributing code to libav, vlc and such :)
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  687. # [13:02] <dahlfors_> and it actually eases things up for us as well due to the contributions. some of his video fixes for android has also been added to android, although that process is slow
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  691. # [13:04] <dahlfors_> I'm happy I don't need to deal with video format headache. but we at the frontend have the crossbrowser video playback to sort out. it works. but we'd like to improve it, like with inline playback in supported mobile browsers. looking at usability - I'm looking forward to it. solving it all - not as excited :P
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  698. # [13:07] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: so he is the guy who keeps the anime running in my android tablet. If he ever founds his way to Helsinki let me buy a beer for him.
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  701. # [13:08] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: oh, you in helsinki?
  702. # [13:08] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: he's in turku
  703. # [13:08] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: aha
  704. # [13:09] <moo-_-> then there is a chance I might know him by name
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  706. # [13:09] <moo-_-> you know, open source circles in my country are not that big
  707. # [13:09] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: martin storsjö
  708. # [13:09] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: well indeed I have been discussing with him
  709. # [13:09] <moo-_-> like long long time ago
  710. # [13:09] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: I'm also from .fi, but I work at the bambuser office in stockholm
  711. # [13:09] <moo-_-> we created some live web cam thingy for symbian
  712. # [13:09] <moo-_-> sorry he created
  713. # [13:09] <moo-_-> then I was using it
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  715. # [13:10] <dahlfors_> yes. probably the early bits of bambuser's symbian app
  716. # [13:10] <dahlfors_> you can still download it from our site, but well.. I don't know if I've even seen it ;)
  717. # [13:11] <dahlfors_> so, it exists, but no real support or updates in a long time. android & ios have been the main platforms for quite a while
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  719. # [13:12] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: so what do you do for a living?
  720. # [13:12] * Quits: aretecode (~aretecode@69.163.36.90) (Max SendQ exceeded)
  721. # [13:13] <moo-_-> I keep servers running and write JavaScript and Python
  722. # [13:13] <moo-_-> in an industry which is infested with cybercrooks and Russian friends
  723. # [13:14] <dahlfors_> sounds like normal internet ;)
  724. # [13:15] <moo-_-> my daily job is more in the panic end of the spectrum
  725. # [13:15] <moo-_-> but this is my latest weekend project: https://libertymusicstore.net/
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  727. # [13:16] <dahlfors_> cool
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  731. # [13:16] <dahlfors_> just saw your site. seems like you're involved in a lot of projects
  732. # [13:17] <moo-_-> I am not sure if that's a compliment or an indication I am too widely spread and stressed out :)
  733. # [13:17] <dahlfors_> hehe
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  735. # [13:18] <dahlfors_> I'm having my hands full with work at this one place
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  738. # [13:20] <moo-_-> BTW will publish a live edit blog post based on this soon https://github.com/miohtama/bootstrap-theme-libertymusicstore
  739. # [13:20] <moo-_-> live edit LESS (& co) directly in the browser
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  743. # [13:23] <dahlfors_> interesting. we have considered adding less to our environment. but no major need for it yet at least. currently in the process of streamlining and remaking most of our frontend.
  744. # [13:24] * Joins: aretecode (~aretecode@69.163.36.90)
  745. # [13:24] <dahlfors_> things tend to get complex and outdated in an it company that's been around since 2007..
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  747. # [13:25] <dahlfors_> a lot has been cleaned up and remade... still a quite a bit to go..
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  752. # [13:30] <dahlfors_> for us the core focus is video, with lots of different platforms. hence the earlier talk about font symbols. it makes sense for us to move as much of the interface elements as possible to scalable solutions. svg will be the future i guess, but in the meantime it makes most sense to go with symbol fonts. good platform support
  753. # [13:30] <moo-_-> well SVG is still no go because of android 2.x I guess
  754. # [13:30] <moo-_-> only 8% of android 2.x left
  755. # [13:30] <moo-_-> wait one year and those devices are crumbling
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  757. # [13:32] <dahlfors_> i just wait for ie7 and ie8 to go.. :)
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  759. # [13:34] <dahlfors_> mobile users thankfully upgrade devices fairly quickly. while a lot of ppl seem to never upgrade computers & os:es..
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  764. # [13:37] <dahlfors_> I'm also happy that our users seem to be better than average :P
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  766. # [13:38] * BenjaminR is now known as benjaminr
  767. # [13:39] <dahlfors_> according to http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/08/support-for-old-versions-of-internet-explorer-to-be-dropped/ - ie8 is still the most used version of the browser, while at our site ie8 and ie9 usage combined is just a bit more than ie10 alone
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  774. # [13:43] <vanhin> What is the default number of items displayed per page on a folder?
  775. # [13:43] <vanhin> Ops wrong chat, sry
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  777. # [13:43] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: yes. unlike IE6+XP computers, mobile phones cannot last 10 years.
  778. # [13:43] <moo-_-> they have designed lifecycle to break down in 3 years
  779. # [13:45] <dahlfors_> seems like people have finally given up with ie6 nowadays though. we rarely get hits with that one
  780. # [13:45] <dahlfors_> but they haven't given up on ie7 and ie8
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  805. # [14:20] <Ms2ger> moo-_-, eh, my mobile phone has lasted 10 years
  806. # [14:20] <Ms2ger> Then again, it can't surf the web
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  808. # [14:23] <moo-_-> Ms2ger: must be Nokia 3310
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  810. # [14:24] <Ms2ger> Nearly, 1101 :)
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  1097. # [20:20] <checkit> Hello all! I'm using a textarea and i want to have a placeholder were there are several line breaks. How can I do this?
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  1176. # [21:51] <moo-_-> checkit: you can always emulate placeholder with javascript if it cannot do it natively
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  1219. # [22:38] <Kronos92> hey anybody out there who know a classic html5 template which is very classic (black and white) small and a bit like a newspaper
  1220. # [22:39] <Kronos92> i only want to post some text
  1221. # [22:39] <Kronos92> javascript should be fine but is not neeeded
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  1224. # [22:41] <Kronos92> something like this
  1225. # [22:41] <Kronos92> http://demo.jimbarraud.com/manifest/
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  1295. # Session Close: Wed Aug 13 00:00:00 2014

The end :)