/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2014-10-24 / end

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  83. # [02:14] <razieliyo> hi
  84. # [02:14] <oquin> I'm trying to combine a select input with a textbox input for when the appropriate options isn't available; been googling around found some stuff. Anyone have a good links they could share
  85. # [02:14] <razieliyo> what is THE tweening lib for javascript? I'll use it for games
  86. # [02:14] <razieliyo> found this one https://github.com/sole/tween.js/
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  125. # [03:55] <wfpkhc> anyone here develop for android firefox and opera/chrome?
  126. # [03:55] <wfpkhc> im having issues with the size differences for CSS for both of them - firefox is MASSIVE - and chrome/opera are tiny - ive tried viewport but that doesnt have any affect at all....
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  129. # [03:58] <wfpkhc> anyone?
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  231. # [08:13] <egal__> hello
  232. # [08:13] * Joins: Xiukun (~kvirc@116.226.203.33)
  233. # [08:13] <egal__> hello
  234. # [08:14] <Xiukun> Hello
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  238. # [08:17] <Xiukun> i use HTML5 application cache and cache a video. video size is 90MB. there are some error: Application Cache Error event: Resource fetch failed (2) http://210.5.25.83:8099/lm/1.mp4
  239. # [08:18] <Xiukun> http://210.5.25.83:8099/lm/
  240. # [08:20] <egal__> hello
  241. # [08:20] <Xiukun> who can help me. please. Thanks
  242. # [08:20] <egal__> i need some help
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  477. # [11:00] <megacorp> Also, How is it possible that they can make "palette effects" emulated inside Javascript/Canvas but I cannot directly manipulate pixels in a speedy fashion? How can the emulation of old video modes be faster than the "real deal"?
  478. # [11:00] <megacorp> -Also,
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  484. # [11:12] <sixequalszero> Howdy
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  488. # [11:26] <moo-_-> megacorp: webgl shaders
  489. # [11:26] <moo-_-> GLSL
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  498. # [11:43] <megacorp> moo-_-: Are you sure about that?
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  500. # [11:44] <megacorp> Also, WebGL is something different from Canvas 2D.
  501. # [11:44] <moo-_-> that's one way to do it
  502. # [11:44] <megacorp> It's... Canvas 3D.
  503. # [11:44] <moo-_-> very effective way
  504. # [11:44] <megacorp> And why the hell isn't Canvas 2D accelerated just as well?
  505. # [11:44] <moo-_-> megacorp: you are missing the point now, I think
  506. # [11:44] <moo-_-> the problem is that per pixel loops in JavaScript are very, very, slow
  507. # [11:44] <megacorp> Hmm...
  508. # [11:44] <moo-_-> per pixel loops in GL shaders are very very fast
  509. # [11:45] <moo-_-> and GL can be used a lot of other things besides drawing fancy triangles
  510. # [11:45] <moo-_-> like
  511. # [11:45] <moo-_-> 2D postprocessing
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  513. # [11:45] <megacorp> What do you mean by 2D postprocessing?
  514. # [11:45] <moo-_-> like manipulating pixel data of 2D image
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  516. # [11:45] <moo-_-> it's offloaded to GPU
  517. # [11:45] <megacorp> Well, I've got a lot of experience with Canvas 2D.
  518. # [11:45] <megacorp> But none of Canvas 3D.
  519. # [11:45] <moo-_-> so it doesn't matter how slow your javascript is
  520. # [11:45] <megacorp> Which means WebGL.
  521. # [11:46] <megacorp> I don't like the idea of having to re-learn everything once again just for some speed...
  522. # [11:46] <megacorp> But maybe there is no way around it.
  523. # [11:46] <moo-_-> megacorp: the courtesy of google http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19695658/emulating-palette-based-graphics-in-webgl-v-s-canvas-2d
  524. # [11:46] <megacorp> Up until recently, it was not even supported by IE.
  525. # [11:47] <megacorp> void? Looks like C++ to me.
  526. # [11:47] <moo-_-> it's GLSL, GL shader language
  527. # [11:47] <megacorp> "Shaders" are little programs that are uploaded into the GPU?
  528. # [11:47] <moo-_-> you program GPU with that
  529. # [11:47] <moo-_-> it's not specific to WebGL
  530. # [11:47] <moo-_-> but used in other GL implementations as well
  531. # [11:47] <moo-_-> megacorp: yep
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  533. # [11:47] <megacorp> Sounds... dangerous.
  534. # [11:48] <megacorp> Wasn't that Microsoft's official reason for not supporting WebGL, BTW?
  535. # [11:48] <megacorp> Until they did.
  536. # [11:48] <megacorp> "We can't guarantee security if we support WebGL" or something.
  537. # [11:48] <moo-_-> megacorp: well Microsoft claimed WebGL is dangerous, but then somebody pointed out Silverlight is equally dangerous
  538. # [11:48] <moo-_-> so they shut up
  539. # [11:48] <megacorp> Why is it dangerous, BTW? Why would the GPU have access to anything outside of its "world"?
  540. # [11:49] <moo-_-> megacorp: display driver bugs
  541. # [11:49] <megacorp> Maybe it has a copy of the screen and that's where the danger lies?
  542. # [11:49] <megacorp> Hmm...
  543. # [11:49] <moo-_-> megacorp: for example, Chrome blacklists lot of old display cards
  544. # [11:49] <moo-_-> because ATI/Nvidia don't bother to release fixed drivers for 2+ years old cards
  545. # [11:49] <megacorp> Sucks for those who have slightly outdated cards.
  546. # [11:49] <moo-_-> it's not WebGL problem per se
  547. # [11:50] <moo-_-> but the problem that graphics driver manufacturers skim the penny
  548. # [11:50] <megacorp> Do I have to be some kind of math genius to code those "shaders"?
  549. # [11:50] <moo-_-> megacorp: not really
  550. # [11:50] <moo-_-> if you do already pixel work in 2d you pretty much know the basics
  551. # [11:51] <megacorp> Let me just try to understand why exactly it's so slow in Canvas 2D...
  552. # [11:51] <megacorp> Hmm... you are saying that it's the actual looping over all the pixels in JS that's the slow part?
  553. # [11:51] <megacorp> So actually grabbing the data and saving it can be as fast as the browser wants?
  554. # [11:51] <megacorp> But not the constant looping?
  555. # [11:51] <megacorp> Even when using one of those "typed arrays"?
  556. # [11:51] <moo-_-> megacorp: here is one example https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/blob/master/examples/js/shaders/SepiaShader.js
  557. # [11:52] <moo-_-> it turns image to have sepia colors
  558. # [11:52] <moo-_-> megacorp: yes, looping in JS is the slow part. You can optimize it to a certain point, but it will be always few orders of magnitudes slower than doing it on GPU
  559. # [11:52] <moo-_-> for example, you could get it working on 320 x 200 upscaled canvas
  560. # [11:52] <moo-_-> but for full screen (1024x pixels wide)... no way
  561. # [11:53] <megacorp> Hmm... it makes sense. Thanks.
  562. # [11:53] <moo-_-> and even it if works
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  577. # [11:53] <moo-_-> then your CPU(s) melt
  578. # [11:53] <moo-_-> and fan screams
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  593. # [11:53] <megacorp> Is GLSL used by AAA producers in their games?
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  597. # [11:54] <moo-_-> pretty much everything running on GL uses GLSL
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  599. # [11:54] <moo-_-> so yes, AAA games use it
  600. # [11:54] <moo-_-> all 3D iOS games use it
  601. # [11:54] <moo-_-> and so on
  602. # [11:54] <megacorp> Hmm.
  603. # [11:55] <megacorp> Last time I tried to use Three.js, the documentation was almost entirely nonexistent.
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  626. # [11:56] <moo-_-> megacorp: that's just an example
  627. # [11:56] <moo-_-> three.js situation has improved
  628. # [11:56] <moo-_-> but you can get quite long way with barebone WebGL and no libs, it just takes some more time to get started
  629. # [11:57] <moo-_-> as you should see from stackoverflow.com reply
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  651. # [11:59] <megacorp> moo-_-: Well, I still have a hard time grasping just how much Three.js does beyond WebGL's own capabilities.
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  654. # [11:59] <moo-_-> megacorp: it really doesn't do anything beyond
  655. # [11:59] <moo-_-> it just offers more user-friendly interface
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  657. # [11:59] <moo-_-> like jquery for DOM
  658. # [11:59] <megacorp> Then why does it exist?
  659. # [11:59] <megacorp> Hmm.
  660. # [11:59] <megacorp> Hehehe.
  661. # [11:59] <moo-_-> that's why novices find it popular
  662. # [11:59] <megacorp> If Three.js is user-friendly... then what is WebGL? A nightmare? :O
  663. # [12:00] <moo-_-> it's not nightmare, but you need a lot of very advanced knowledge
  664. # [12:00] <moo-_-> and it takes time to accumulate it
  665. # [12:00] <megacorp> Also, Three.js had some stupid "alternative renderers" suchas CanvasRenderer. I tried it out and it had all sorts of issues and bugs. Seems like they must've spent a lot of efforts emulating WebGL in Canvas.
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  667. # [12:01] <moo-_-> megacorp: those alternative backends are mostly an academic exercise
  668. # [12:01] <moo-_-> and do not bear real-word use cases
  669. # [12:01] <megacorp> Yeah, seems like it.
  670. # [12:01] <moo-_-> especially now when webgl is on every modern browser, including mobile ones
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  672. # [12:01] <megacorp> Especially the others were very bizarre. Like... SVGRenderer.
  673. # [12:02] <megacorp> My fingers are itching to do something with WebGL, even if it's "just" 2D.
  674. # [12:02] <megacorp> For the sheer speed.
  675. # [12:03] <megacorp> But have to finish Boring Work first.
  676. # [12:05] <thedonut_> http://imgur.com/uOypc0c
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  914. # [19:08] <danielma_> Anyone have an idea why a google font is rendering nicely on chrome/firefox/safari and rather rough on IE11? https://www.dropbox.com/s/ole57wrf5qmfq0g/chrome.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/ky7foko4pw62ndo/IE11.jpg?dl=0
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The end :)