/irc-logs / freenode / #html5 / 2015-08-20 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Aug 20 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #html5
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  23. # [00:44] <gagiD> hey :)
  24. # [00:45] <gagiD> can I explicitly cache some repititive elements eg. navigation, footer...?
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  122. # [05:04] <nszceta> I have no idea why i cant get FormData to work https://unsee.cc/zinotabe/
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  220. # [11:32] * Topic is 'Ask any question about HTML5 & Friends || HTML5 Spec for Developers: http://developers.whatwg.org || Also: http://html5rocks.com http://diveintohtml5.info http://mzl.la/9giLwR || Channel logs: http://j.mp/cG7UDa'
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  230. # [12:09] <lilltiger> Is there no way to list the fonts a user has installed?
  231. # [12:09] <lilltiger> the file open dialog dosent allow a user to browse into the fonts folder
  232. # [12:11] <Sharaal> lilltiger: afaik with js you should be able to determine which fonts are installed, but whats the use case?
  233. # [12:12] <lilltiger> Sharaal: making a editor like app, so the user vill enter some text and select font from his/her installed fonts
  234. # [12:12] <lilltiger> so i need a list of installed fonts
  235. # [12:12] <Sharaal> perhaps you will find here something: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3597682/how-to-iterate-the-installed-fonts-using-javascript
  236. # [12:13] <Sharaal> looks not that easy, but possible
  237. # [12:13] * Joins: haris (~haris@CPE-124-180-130-110.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au)
  238. # [12:13] <haris> Hi I am using the <details> html5 element. I have a <summary> on small devices the summary wraps onto another line. This is fine but I want it wrap after the marker
  239. # [12:14] <lilltiger> well it seems all thoes require that i have a list of wich fonts they might have
  240. # [12:14] <moo-_-> lilltiger: no
  241. # [12:14] <moo-_-> that could be used fingerprinting users
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  243. # [12:15] <moo-_-> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Fingerprinting#Fonts
  244. # [12:16] <lilltiger> moo-_-: well I would be happy if i just could allow the user to select a font in the windows font folder.. but one dosent seem allowed to browse that one at all :/
  245. # [12:16] <moo-_-> lilltiger: create your own font list which points to webfonts.google.com
  246. # [12:16] <moo-_-> https://github.com/tommoor/fontselect-jquery-plugin
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  248. # [12:17] <moo-_-> lilltiger: I hope understand that if that was possible sites could track you even if you clear cookies or cache
  249. # [12:18] <lilltiger> moo-_-: that would be nowhere close enought to what the users use :/ as I said they are designers and might want to use thire very own font.
  250. # [12:18] <moo-_-> lilltiger: ask them to provide a link to a webfont
  251. # [12:18] <lilltiger> moo-_-: yes, if i could list them, but now i cant even select them from the file browser, while i can list most other files
  252. # [12:18] <moo-_-> if they want to use a custom font
  253. # [12:18] <moo-_-> and if they are designers they probably have typekit account already
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  255. # [12:19] <lilltiger> that is the issue.. they wont.. they buy the design, then the reseller of out products gets the font from thire customer etc..
  256. # [12:19] <haris> Doesn't seem like my question was clear enough so I have created my issue in JSFiddle: https://jsfiddle.net/226no7ue/ how do I gest the wrapped text to align with 1. i.e. after the red marker?
  257. # [12:19] <haris> You will need to open it in chrome btw.
  258. # [12:20] <lilltiger> well guess the only way is to require the user to copy out the font from the font folder on a windows computer
  259. # [12:22] <moo-_-> lilltiger: here is an example of a form builder using typekit api http://help.wufoo.com/articles/en_US/SurveyMonkeyArticleType/Typekit-Integration
  260. # [12:22] <lilltiger> moo-_-: and that type of tracking, cant they do that just getting the files/folders from ex. the Program File folder?
  261. # [12:22] <moo-_-> lilltiger: no
  262. # [12:23] <lilltiger> why not?
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  264. # [12:23] <moo-_-> lilltiger: if you wish to study the matter more I suggest you refer to the earlier Mozilla fingerprinting article or study other browser fingerprinting posts
  265. # [12:24] <moo-_-> just use typekit/webfonts or deploy a native application
  266. # [12:25] <moo-_-> a lot of smart people develop web browsers so when things behave certain way it is usually because a lot of thought has been put behind that
  267. # [12:25] <dahlfors_> hi moo-_-
  268. # [12:27] <lilltiger> moo-_-: I jsut dotn see what makes the fonts folder so special when I could use pretty much any other folder, like the c:/user/ folder where i even would get the user name to fingerprint them. So why not prevent thoes lising in the open file browser as well..
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  272. # [12:28] <moo-_-> lilltiger: ah, I think we are discussing a different matter here
  273. # [12:29] <moo-_-> lilltiger: I was talking about font picker dialog, not file open dialog
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  275. # [12:30] <haris> cool
  276. # [12:31] <lilltiger> moo-_-: well either would be fine for my case, but indeed a custom picker dialog would require a list of all to be sent, i just need to allow the user to select a font he has installed. But i guess I have to require the font to be moved from the fonts folder in windows.. but also be installed in the font folder.. :/ alot of hassle for the user
  277. # [12:32] <moo-_-> I can browser /Library/Fonts on OSX fine, so I guess that's a Windows fart
  278. # [12:32] <lilltiger> yhee works fine in linux as well
  279. # [12:32] <lilltiger> just windows, thought 80%+ of our users use windows :/
  280. # [12:32] <haris> wicked
  281. # [12:32] <haris> Yeah I will try that
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  283. # [12:33] <haris> thanks.
  284. # [12:34] <dahlfors_> lilltiger: it's quite a mess you're getting yourself into, just so you know
  285. # [12:34] <lilltiger> dahlfors_: I know :/ everything I am doing latly is totaly messy :/
  286. # [12:34] <dahlfors_> designers use a multitude of fonts, and usually use font managers for managing them - not the operating system
  287. # [12:34] <dahlfors_> and those fonts will be in different formats
  288. # [12:35] <dahlfors_> some formats are not supported in any other way than through font managers
  289. # [12:35] <lilltiger> dahlfors_: yes, but normaly they send it in ttf to our resellers
  290. # [12:36] <dahlfors_> if you're going to support any font - give option for uploading a font file. other than that, look for some solution with typekit
  291. # [12:36] * eGGsha is now known as eGGshke
  292. # [12:37] <dahlfors_> most designers will be used to using typekit fonts, since they're integrated into cc subscriptions these days
  293. # [12:37] <lilltiger> dahlfors_: but wont we be liable to leagal issues if we allow font uploading as we wont own the licences to the fonts
  294. # [12:39] <dahlfors_> yes. it's a mess
  295. # [12:39] <dahlfors_> :)
  296. # [12:40] <lilltiger> hmm maybe we could use typekit and any other font we require them to vectorize the text
  297. # [12:40] <dahlfors_> sounds like a better idea
  298. # [12:40] <moo-_-> lilltiger: +1
  299. # [12:40] <auto9> haris: updated your jsfiddle https://jsfiddle.net/226no7ue/1/
  300. # [12:40] <moo-_-> lilltiger: typekit pretty much covers every font in the world
  301. # [12:41] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: as a designer: no :)
  302. # [12:41] <dahlfors_> typekit is perhaps a few percent of the fonts
  303. # [12:42] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: ha :)
  304. # [12:42] <dahlfors_> but typekit fonts are among the most popular ones, classics. and a few newer ones which will become popular thanks to being in typekit and pushed by adobe
  305. # [12:42] <moo-_-> I must be working with lousy designers :)
  306. # [12:42] <moo-_-> It's always Myriad Pro
  307. # [12:42] <lilltiger> or Helvetica
  308. # [12:43] <lilltiger> moo-_-: Myraid Pro is just the default in Illustrator
  309. # [12:43] <moo-_-> lilltiger: hardcore Helvetica and 90% of your customers are happy :3
  310. # [12:43] <moo-_-> hardcode even
  311. # [12:43] <lilltiger> pretty much, except thoes that want helvetica rounded
  312. # [12:46] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: I got this one: http://ilovetypography.com/2008/01/24/fontbook-type-encyclopedia-review/
  313. # [12:46] <dahlfors_> that's an insane book. I can't comprehend that someone managed to put it together
  314. # [12:46] <moo-_-> dahlfors_: he/she probably loves typgraphy a lot :)
  315. # [12:46] <dahlfors_> yes.
  316. # [12:46] <dahlfors_> that bloody books weighs over 2 kg
  317. # [12:46] <dahlfors_> *book
  318. # [12:46] * eGGshke is now known as eGGsha
  319. # [12:48] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: insane with all the cross references from page to page. I can't imagine what time it takes to put together something like that. I'd rather code a new kernel :D
  320. # [12:48] <lilltiger> I hate fonts, why cant just evryone use the same font all the time, would be so much easier.. how about a law saying that "Comic Sans" is the only allowed font.
  321. # [12:49] <moo-_-> lilltiger: that was web before HTML5
  322. # [12:49] <moo-_-> before web fonts
  323. # [12:49] <moo-_-> Verdana!
  324. # [12:50] <moo-_-> also by the time we didn't have stupid Mac or iOS users spoiling our fun
  325. # [12:50] <lilltiger> I remeber using Comic Sans back in the Angelfire days ;D
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  327. # [12:51] <lilltiger> Thoes where the great days of webdesigns, animated gif's and underconstruction signs all over!
  328. # [12:51] <lilltiger> And frames!
  329. # [12:51] <moo-_-> wow this guy smashes Helvetica http://ilovetypography.com/2015/06/27/the-last-word-on-helvetica/
  330. # [12:54] <lilltiger> "And the haters might say that’s a little unfair — to dog poop. " ;D
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  332. # [12:57] <dahlfors_> that site is a great typography resource
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  334. # [12:59] <dahlfors_> when it comes to design most people working with it are very subjective. the people who consider the objective parts of design and actually adapt form after function and desired results are actually a minority
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  337. # [13:03] <dahlfors_> so yes. i believe that a lot of designers you'll meet are crap. I've seen a lot of them.
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  340. # [13:10] <dahlfors_> moo-_-: and I'd agree with erik spiekermann on that point - "there are no bad typefaces". it all depends on how you use them, when and where, to the right effect
  341. # [13:11] <lilltiger> Comic Sans beg to differ ;)
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  344. # [13:12] <dahlfors_> it's excellent for its intended use: in speech bubbles in comics
  345. # [13:12] <lilltiger> It it even used there?
  346. # [13:12] <dahlfors_> you can use any typeface badly
  347. # [13:13] <lilltiger> that is true
  348. # [13:13] <moo-_-> fonts don't kill people, people do
  349. # [13:13] <dahlfors_> comic sans is just probably the one that people use badly the most
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  351. # [13:14] <dahlfors_> used properly in speech bubbles, most people wouldn't probably even think about the font choice or that it even is comic sans compared to other speech bubble fonts
  352. # [13:14] <lilltiger> It's pretty amusing, I read of a way to check if a font was installed, you load it and check the width against comic sans because no other font is like it ;D
  353. # [13:16] <dahlfors_> but one major change is happening in typography now and has been happening the last decades
  354. # [13:16] <dahlfors_> people used to be able to read texts in serifs the quickest & easiest
  355. # [13:17] <dahlfors_> thanks to sans-serifs being so common on screen use, people are starting to find sans-serifs easier to read
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  357. # [13:17] <dahlfors_> so there's a shift from serifs to sans-serifs for longer paragraphs
  358. # [13:18] <dahlfors_> won't happen with printed books in a while I bet, but the shift is happening
  359. # [13:19] <dahlfors_> there were major debates about readability of typefaces a long time ago. research found that the typefaces that people are most used to reading - are the ones they read the quickest.
  360. # [13:19] <lilltiger> I prefere serifs on monitos as well
  361. # [13:20] <dahlfors_> and these days people are growing up reading a lot of sans-serifs on the web
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  366. # [13:53] <wowaname> if sans serifing happens in books then im gonna die
  367. # [13:54] <wowaname> this one series comes to mind though
  368. # [14:00] * eGGsha is now known as eGGshke
  369. # [14:00] * eGGshke is now known as eGGsha
  370. # [14:00] <dahlfors_> wowaname: well. you might be an angry retired person waving with a stick when that happens
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  372. # [14:01] <wowaname> probablt
  373. # [14:01] <dahlfors_> "everything was better before!"
  374. # [14:01] <wowaname> and i may not be able to read by then
  375. # [14:01] <wowaname> i feel like that angry retired perso nright now
  376. # [14:01] <wowaname> :/
  377. # [14:01] <lilltiger> there already are books with sans-serif
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  379. # [14:01] <dahlfors_> yup. but the majority still goes with serif typefaces
  380. # [14:04] <lilltiger> I wish more used serif on the web, imo they look so much better and are esier to read
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  384. # [14:05] <wowaname> didnt wikipedia change their h2s?
  385. # [14:05] <wowaname> mediawiki rather
  386. # [14:06] <dahlfors_> well. the research tells that the typefaces people are used to are the ones that are easy to read ;)
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  388. # [14:06] <wowaname> unifont for everyone
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  390. # [14:06] <wowaname> eep
  391. # [14:06] <lilltiger> yes, and that other charaistics of the font makes a bigger difference then serif vs sans
  392. # [14:06] <wowaname> is there unifont for android
  393. # [14:07] * eGGsha is now known as eGGshke
  394. # [14:07] <dahlfors_> i just wish all displays and operating systems would quickly move to high ppi
  395. # [14:09] <dahlfors_> then all the rendering differences between type rendering engines would be less noticeable
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  397. # [14:11] <lilltiger> And that evry design application would use SVG, and all RIP's as well..
  398. # [14:12] <lilltiger> and that evry country uses SI units.. why ohh why is it so hard to not used a retarded system as the royal/imperial units!
  399. # [14:12] <dahlfors_> https://xkcd.com/927/
  400. # [14:13] <lilltiger> yhee.. f-you apple!
  401. # [14:14] * eGGshke is now known as eGGsha
  402. # [14:14] <lilltiger> but it was expected that Tim Cook wanted a special charger.. :p
  403. # [14:15] <lilltiger> but with the unit system the SI units are universal and scientific.. there are two countries in the world holding onto imperial/royal.. USA and Vietnam..
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  426. # [15:10] <LiENUS> is there a way to get a button to submit two values to a form, say an id of a record to work with and an action to indicate what to do with that record?
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  447. # [15:56] <parzo> I was hoping to clear something up about client side form validation in HTML5. If for example I wanted an input field to only accept a combination of numbers and spaces between 10 to 15 characters long how would I approach that?
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  732. # [23:50] * Quits: sharpshooter1 (~Adium@123.201.72.245) (Quit: Leaving.)
  733. # Session Close: Fri Aug 21 00:00:00 2015

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