/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-03-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Mar 12 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  35. # [03:19] <Derek> Hello, would anyone be interested in discussing a project format?
  36. # [03:19] <Derek> http://microformats.org/wiki/project
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  97. # [11:18] <tobyink> Derek... I'm pretty sure I had something I wanted to say to you. Hmmm... what was it?
  98. # [11:19] <Derek> hDOAP
  99. # [11:19] <Derek> thank you so much!
  100. # [11:19] * Joins: designorant (n=mo@deconstr.gotadsl.co.uk)
  101. # [11:19] <Derek> I believe that's what it was.
  102. # [11:19] <tobyink> Ah yes, you ashed "what is the h prefix for?"
  103. # [11:19] <Derek> Oh yeah that too.
  104. # [11:19] <tobyink> s/ashed/asked/
  105. # [11:19] <tobyink> h = HTML
  106. # [11:20] <tobyink> hCard = HTML version of vCard
  107. # [11:20] <tobyink> hAtom = HTML version of Atom
  108. # [11:20] <tobyink> etc
  109. # [11:20] <Derek> So it's for HTML or the H in HTML which is hyper?
  110. # [11:21] <tobyink> It's for the whole of HTML. A double abbreviation if you will.
  111. # [11:21] <tobyink> Not just the hyper.
  112. # [11:21] <Derek> Ah, I see.
  113. # [11:21] <Derek> Would this be a bad time for you to discuss the project format with me?
  114. # [11:24] <Derek> I was actually trying to change it's focus from open-source software to goal-oriented projects.
  115. # [11:24] <Derek> I feel open-source software projects should have their own page.
  116. # [11:25] <tobyink> Are open source software projects not a subset of goal-oriented projects?
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  118. # [11:26] <Derek> Well, it could be contained within, I don't think it should.
  119. # [11:28] <Derek> When I think of a project, open source software does not come to mind at all.
  120. # [11:28] <tobyink> My point is that if you have a format that's able to describe software projects, provided that the specification does not explicitly restrict the format to the description of software, it should be suitable for describing many other types of project too.
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  122. # [11:29] <Derek> I agree.
  123. # [11:30] <Derek> Someone else suggested having a page specifically for software.
  124. # [11:32] <Derek> Maybe there should be a field that can accommodate a vast array of project types.
  125. # [11:34] <Derek> Or the entire format should as a matter of fact.
  126. # [11:41] <Derek> Do you know of any other websites that I can add to the examples?
  127. # [11:44] <tobyink> e.g. in DOAP: <Project><name>World Peace</name><homepage rdf:resource="http://example.com/" /></Project>
  128. # [11:45] <tobyink> Sorry - got interrupted by a phone call there.
  129. # [11:50] <Derek> Not a problem.
  130. # [11:51] <Derek> I see how this does not restrict the format to the description of software.
  131. # [11:54] <Derek> I've tried to reach Danny Ayers to find out if he is still developing hDOAP, still no response.
  132. # [11:54] <Derek> I think he would have some valuable input.
  133. # [12:06] <tobyink> You could try Ed Dumbhill (sp?) who designed DOAP itself?
  134. # [12:09] <Derek> Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try him next.
  135. # [12:29] <tobyink> examples of non-software projects marked up in HTML...
  136. # [12:29] <tobyink> http://www.moldovaaidproject.org.uk/
  137. # [12:30] <tobyink> http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=FP7_PROJ_EN&ACTION=D&DOC=4&CAT=PROJ&QUERY=011ffa6da836:797a:027547cc&RCN=88231
  138. # [12:35] <tobyink> http://web.worldbank.org/external/projects/main?pagePK=64283627&piPK=73230&theSitePK=40941&menuPK=228424&Projectid=P109459
  139. # [12:38] <tobyink> Does this count as a project? http://orangmerajut.blogspot.com/2005/03/poncho_13.html
  140. # [12:39] <tobyink> Is a recipe a project?
  141. # [12:39] <Derek> Definitely.
  142. # [12:39] <Derek> Great find actually.
  143. # [12:39] <Derek> Yes, I do think a recipe would be a project.
  144. # [12:40] <Derek> Cooking project.
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  146. # [12:42] <tobyink> There are two kinds of project page as I see it - the abstract (name of the project, description, goals, who's in charge, related web pages, etc) and the practical (name of the project, step by step how it can be achieved)
  147. # [12:43] <tobyink> The former overlaps with hCard / hDOAP; the latter with hRecipe (though hRecipe only suitable for a limited subset). There is very little common ground.
  148. # [12:44] <tobyink> The World Bank site and CORDIS are examples of the former - what are the goals of the project? who is taking part? who is funding it? how much will it cost? But they don't give you step-by-step instructions for how to carry out the project in your own home in your spare time.
  149. # [12:44] <tobyink> And you won't expect them to.
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  151. # [12:46] <tobyink> The knitting site, and recipes are different. The goals are not explicitly stated; no time frame is given (I could knit a poncho tomorrow, or maybe in a few years' time). The focus is on the step by step documentation of how it can be done, so that you can replicate the project yourself.
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  153. # [12:46] <ntoll> hi, I've seen Oomph... are there any other tools like it that a web-developer could include in their pages (rather than relying on a browser plugin)
  154. # [12:46] <ntoll> ?
  155. # [12:47] <ntoll> ok... just found the wiki... :-)
  156. # [12:49] <tobyink> ntoll: tantek's gone and changed his site. was going to point to a good example there...
  157. # [12:53] <ntoll> hmm... ok... looking at the wiki most of the focus seems to be on browser plugins... this is a shame as I'm using uFormats in a web app I'm writing and some of my clients due to a mixture of lack of knowledge and over-zelous security from their IT depts can't or won't install browser plugins. That is why in-page JS like oomph library is so appealing
  158. # [12:53] <Derek> toby your input on the project format is very informative, thankyou
  159. # [12:53] <georgebrock> ntoll: you can add Oomph to your pages in a way that doesn't require the browser plugin, there's an example here: http://rhizohm.net/contact.html
  160. # [12:53] <ntoll> georgebrock: doing that already - just looking around for alternatives
  161. # [12:54] <ntoll> not that there is anything wrong with oomph - I had a huge cheshire cat grin on my face when I found it - I'd just like to see alternatives
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  163. # [12:59] <tobyink> ntoll: you can add things like "download my vcard" links using services such as http://suda.co.uk/projects/X2V/
  164. # [12:59] <ntoll> ...looking now
  165. # [13:09] <ntoll> looks like I'll be sticking with Oomph... :-)
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  253. # Session Close: Fri Mar 13 00:00:01 2009

The end :)