/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-05-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun May 24 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  12. # [01:02] <Whitespace> Hey all
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  14. # [01:05] <Whitespace> I was wondering why microformats use tags like rel and rev and not the html5 data-* tags. One aspect of everything using a rel tag is ambiguity of the text that's there, as well as multilingual usages of the rel tag. The rel tag confuses me (since it's overloaded), especially since data-foo="bar" affords many more benefits.
  15. # [01:05] <@benward> Hi Whitespace
  16. # [01:05] <@benward> Quick answers for those:
  17. # [01:05] <Whitespace> Hello!
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  19. # [01:06] <@benward> 1. microformats predate HTML5 and are HTML4/XHTML1 compatible
  20. # [01:07] <@benward> 2. Microformats are for publishing on the web _now_, HTML5 remains draft and subject to change. Lots of people and (especially) organisations won't commit to a spec that could change without warning and create maintenance work for them
  21. # [01:07] * Quits: HerrTopf (n=cs@94.45.243.75) (Remote closed the connection)
  22. # [01:08] <@benward> 3. The data- attributes specifically are not for microformat use. The spec explicitly says that they are only for applications to use for local purposes. Specifying shared meaning for particular data-foo data-bar attributes is invalid.
  23. # [01:08] <@benward> We have a wiki page for HTML5 work-in-progress stuff: http://microformats.org/wiki/html5
  24. # [01:08] <Whitespace> Ahh, that really clears things up :)
  25. # [01:09] <@benward> It's worth having a read of the new HTML5 ‘microdata’ section — that is _much_ closer to what we do, and depending on how things go with that very new spec, will probably have an impact on microformat vocabularies in HTML5.
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  27. # [01:12] <Whitespace> I was also wondering about rel attribute overloading. Does <a href="foo.com" rel="bar nofollow">foo.com</a> mean I tagged it with "nofollow" or should Google ignore that link? What if someone puts a new microformat called "cat". Do all links rel=tagged with "cat" then become problematic to the cat microformat reader?
  28. # [01:17] <Whitespace> I wonder this because I have ideas for microformat usage in the future, and was wondering about potential problems with the rel tag. (In my case, what I want to describe is exactly a relationship from the current page to the linked page, so rel is semantically perfect for what I propose to do).
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  30. # [01:25] <hober> Disambiguation of @rel values isn't generally much of a problem, but if it concerns you, I encourage you to pick a Sufficiently Interesting (TM) term.
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  83. # [13:15] <glennjones> I have been thinking about putting up a few pages on the wiki on best practice for marking up social media/network sites. Is this a good idea
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  91. # [14:19] <m-kay> hi there!
  92. # [14:19] <m-kay> I have a question about compound microformats and RDF
  93. # [14:19] <m-kay> I'm building a proof of concept where I need to convert microformats to RDF
  94. # [14:20] <m-kay> this works with the different transformations available (for example http://www.w3.org/2002/12/cal/glean-hcal.xsl) and with GRDDL
  95. # [14:21] <m-kay> so now I have a page with some events on this, all represented as a hCalendar event with a hCard embedded in it for address information
  96. # [14:21] <m-kay> see: http://marco.mp3-tunes.nl/microformats.html
  97. # [14:22] <m-kay> but when converting this page to RDF(http://transformr.co.uk/grddl/http://marco.mp3-tunes.nl/microformats.html), there seems to be no relation between the Vcalendar and the VCard, so with multiple events I can't figure out which VCard relates to which Vcalendar
  98. # [14:22] <m-kay> any clue on how to fix this?
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  100. # [14:31] <glennjones> The location is marked up as a string, adr or hCard object. All uf parsers should work with the string. Some will parse adr or hCard as part of the hCalendar. Operator for example parses the adr element of your hCard
  101. # [14:34] <m-kay> but Operator does not parse the events
  102. # [14:35] <m-kay> well, i'm going to toy around a little bit with the stylesheets provided at http://esw.w3.org/topic/CustomRdfDialects
  103. # [14:35] <m-kay> in general they seem to have issues with compound microformats
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  106. # [14:40] <glennjones> If you look at the debug mode of Operator's output you will see the hCard element inside the event. Its only saying invalid because the dtstart is a <div> not a <abbr>
  107. # [14:42] <glennjones> It must be down to the parser not reading the hCard as apart of the hCalandar location.
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  109. # [14:56] <m-kay> it seems like RDF Calendar (http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfcal/) doesn't even support embedding a VCard to express the location of an event
  110. # [15:02] <glennjones> Both are based on iCalendar which has location as a string. The use of hCard came from real world uf authoring use and is slowly been worked into the hCalandar spec. That is why support is at the moment a bit patchy
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The end :)