/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-06-29 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jun 29 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:00] <@tantek> Zitter, could you provide a URL showing examples of the email, date, author and so on that you would like to mark up?
  4. # [00:01] <Zitter> http://classified.ipercollege.dyndns.org/annunci.html
  5. # [00:02] <Zitter> (wow... tantek!)
  6. # [00:03] <Zitter> as you can see sometime there are phone number, or email (when a poster wants to show them)
  7. # [00:03] <Zitter> images too I would like to microformatted
  8. # [00:04] <Zitter> date, instead, is present in ad detail
  9. # [00:05] <Zitter> published and expired date
  10. # [00:22] <Zitter> any hint?
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  12. # [00:35] <@tantek> Zitter, those look like job and rental postings mostly
  13. # [00:36] <@tantek> posted at certain times
  14. # [00:36] <@tantek> as announcements
  15. # [00:36] <@tantek> each announcement itself could be marked up as an hAtom entry http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom
  16. # [00:37] <@tantek> inside each entry, you could markup the job/rental/other listing using the hListing draft: http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting
  17. # [00:37] <Zitter> thanks a lot :)
  18. # [00:37] <@tantek> each hListing entry has a "lister" which refers to the person posting the listing, and inside that "lister" is where you would put the hCard with their name, contact info (email etc.)
  19. # [00:38] <Zitter> ok
  20. # [00:38] <@tantek> so in summary: whole page = series of hAtom entries. inside each hAtom entry put an hListing. inside the hListing put an hCard "lister" with the contact info.
  21. # [00:38] <@tantek> hope that helps!
  22. # [00:39] <Zitter> i'm really new to mf
  23. # [00:39] <Zitter> but they are, in substance, a group of definied class and attributes to assign to tags, right?
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  27. # [01:08] <@tantek> Zitter, this presentation may help introduce what are microformats and how they came about: http://tantek.com/presentations/2006/07/what-are-microformats/
  28. # [01:09] <@tantek> also, here are a bunch of answers to the question "What are microformats?" by many members of the microformats community - often hearing different perspectives helps: http://microformats.org/wiki/what-are-microformats
  29. # [01:15] <Zitter> question: is tag important? I mean: <ol class="vcalendar"><li class="vevent"><a href="#" class="url"><span class="summary"> and so on... can I substitute span with h3, for example?
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  32. # [01:15] <Zitter> beacuse "summary" in the page is important so I would like to assign it a heading h3
  33. # [01:16] <@tantek> yes, span and div are just used as examples, you should use the most semantic tag that is appropriate for the specific piece of content. See: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q._Why_do_the_examples_on_the_wiki_use_.3Cspan.3E_and_.3Cdiv.3E_for_nearly_everything.3F
  34. # [01:19] <Zitter> thanks for everything... good night from italy :)
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  100. # [15:53] <mfbot> Tinstar edited hcard-examples-in-wild "/* new and uncategorized examples */ " (+140) http://is.gd/1i4me
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  127. # [18:14] <mfbot> JayMyers edited hlisting-brainstorming "submitting another revised version of hlisting schema changes before posting them to main hlisting page" (+1458) http://is.gd/1iaCl
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  153. # [21:51] <hober> might be of interest to some: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0811.html
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  157. # [22:14] <mfbot> GlennJones created test-fixture "New page: = Test Fixture = ==Introduction== The test-fixture is a description of a group of software tests. It is designed as a microformat, but as it has not been through the community review proc..." http://is.gd/1ilA3
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  159. # [22:21] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-fixture "/* Introduction */ Added hyperlinks" (+39) http://is.gd/1ilVg
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  163. # [22:27] <csarven> Company tagline should be vCard:title or vCard:note?
  164. # [22:27] <@tantek> csarven - URL to a real world example of a company tagline?
  165. # [22:29] <csarven> tantek http://more.ca/ "Celebrating Women Over 40"
  166. # [22:30] <csarven> "Canada's site.."
  167. # [22:30] <singpoly2a> csarven: I would use note
  168. # [22:31] <mfbot> Tantek edited test-fixture "corrected use of POSH pattern to poshformat - which is really what this is." (+17) http://is.gd/1impQ
  169. # [22:31] <csarven> I think it is generally a note too
  170. # [22:32] <hober> Another example, maybe? http://www.info.teradata.com/images/td_logo.gif
  171. # [22:32] <singpoly2a> csarven: I use note for biographical paragraphs, a tagline seems to be a short version of that
  172. # [22:32] <csarven> Agreed
  173. # [22:33] <csarven> title is passable
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  177. # [22:45] <mfbot> Tantek edited semantic-class-names "dfn, links" (+433) http://is.gd/1in8a
  178. # [22:46] <mfbot> Tantek edited semantic-class-names "added request for earlier than 2002 citations of semantic class names usage/advocacy in the web design community" (+53) http://is.gd/1inbQ
  179. # [22:46] <mfbot> Tantek edited poshformats "entry-title, dfn, link" (+120) http://is.gd/1incs
  180. # [22:47] <csarven> If a user is an admin of a group, vCard:TITLE or vCard:ROLE?
  181. # [22:48] <@tantek> hober, that's a good post to the "public-html" list: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Jun/0811.html
  182. # [22:48] <@tantek> I agree that the predefined microdata vocabularies do not belong in the HTML5 spec and should be separated out (at a minimum).
  183. # [22:50] <@tantek> as the editor of hCard and hCalendar, I'm noting the request to add a section of how to use hCard and hCalendar with HTML5, including optional use of HTML5's microdata feature.
  184. # [22:51] <@benward> Seems like something that should wait until the microdata spec is presumed stable though
  185. # [22:51] <@benward> Given that it's currently just the first iteration.
  186. # [22:51] <@tantek> benward, I think there's been sufficient interest to note the request for the "how to in HTML5 section", which I think is a reasonable addition to hCard 1.0.1 and hCalendar 1.0.1
  187. # [22:52] <hober> I think it's fairly stable. It's already got multiple processor implementations, and IIRC feedback from them has already resulted in tweaks
  188. # [22:52] <@tantek> as for the predefined BibTeX microdata vocabulary, I would prefer to defer that to Brian Suda, who has done a lot (most) of the work on the citation microformat - http://microformats.org/wiki/citation
  189. # [22:53] <@tantek> I'm willing to be considered a backup editor for the citation microformat, and therefore the request to add a section of how to use the citation microformat with HTML5.
  190. # [22:53] <hober> The core point I was trying to make in that email is to dissuade people from the idea that microformats and microdata are somehow competing
  191. # [22:53] <hober> or trying to do the same thing--one is built on html's extensibility points, and one is an addition to those extensibility points
  192. # [22:53] <@tantek> hober - I agree with your core point.
  193. # [22:53] <hober> *nod* re: citation
  194. # [22:54] <@tantek> I do however think that the "snapshot" inclusion in HTML5 of the predefined vCard and vEvent vocabularies using language/algorithms from hCard and hCalendar respectively was a mistake.
  195. # [22:55] <hober> yeah, I'd like to see them pulled out & reformulated into "hCard-on-html5" etc.
  196. # [22:55] <@tantek> both hCard and hCalendar have collected numerous issues and resolutions (all resolved for hCard, mostly resolved for hCalendar) that are being incorporated into 1.0.1 versions of those specs.
  197. # [22:55] <@tantek> thus the "snapshots" of hCard and hCalendar that got put into HTML5 simply propagated many known outstanding issues whose resolutions have not yet been incorporated into the hCard and hCalendar specs.
  198. # [22:56] <@tantek> (this is why it's often better to *reference* another spec, rather than incorporate it, when writing your own spec which uses such externally developed features)
  199. # [22:56] <hober> The only real issue I see with using the microdata attributes in microformats going forward is some transitionary non-DRYness
  200. # [22:56] <hober> e.g. <div item="vcard" class="vcard"> <span class="fn" itemprop="fn">Foo Bar</span> .. </div>
  201. # [22:56] <@tantek> hober, there are many issues with using microdata attributes, which I'm sure we'll note when documenting how to potentially use hCard etc. with microdata
  202. # [22:57] <hober> indeed
  203. # [22:57] <@tantek> it's worse than just DRY violation
  204. # [22:57] <@tantek> there are some visible data violations (or at least encouragements to violate) also
  205. # [22:58] <hober> there's a commented-out bit that touches on such things, labelled as for v2
  206. # [22:59] <hober> right after the <h2><dfn>Microdata</dfn></h2> line
  207. # [22:59] <mfbot> Tantek edited citation-strawman-00 "noted editor Brian Suda" (+30) http://is.gd/1inQt
  208. # [22:59] <hober> (source r3340 line 45538, if you have html5 checked out)
  209. # [22:59] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-fixture "Correction and addtional urls" (+34) http://is.gd/1inSj
  210. # [23:05] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-fixture "/* Embeding tests */ Added example of test" (+962) http://is.gd/1io8q
  211. # [23:06] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-fixture "/* Embeding tests */ corrected coding error" (+0) http://is.gd/1iobY
  212. # [23:11] * Quits: georgebrock (n=georgebr@client-86-25-199-236.cht-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net)
  213. # [23:12] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-suites "/* Establishment Tasks */ Updated action list" (+23) http://is.gd/1ioyp
  214. # [23:13] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcalendar-brainstorming "added a request for a how to use with HTML5 section, use value class pattern, note common CSS style rule to clean up abbrs" (+1185) http://is.gd/1iozu
  215. # [23:14] <mfbot> GlennJones edited test-suites "/* Related */ Added test-fixture url" (+19) http://is.gd/1ioBG
  216. # [23:16] <mfbot> Tantek edited citation-brainstorming "added a request for a how to use with HTML5 section" (+484) http://is.gd/1ioJb
  217. # [23:16] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-brainstorming "added a request for a how to use with HTML5 section" (+422) http://is.gd/1ioJf
  218. # [23:18] * Quits: Zitter (n=danilo@93-42-153-78.ip87.fastwebnet.it) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  219. # [23:20] <@Phae> in a not intending to argue about microdata way, i'm just finishing up working up a html5 wordpress theme, except i'm leaving in the microformats and just replacing elements as appropriate with html5 ones (<time> being the biggy)
  220. # [23:21] <@Phae> eventually, they could be lite-microformats for html (as hober was saying with hcard-on-html)
  221. # [23:21] <@Phae> +5
  222. # [23:21] * @Phae is just playing tho, really.
  223. # [23:21] <mfbot> EdwardOConnor created HTML5 "redirect HTML5 to html5" http://is.gd/1ioZ2
  224. # [23:22] <@tantek> thanks hober
  225. # [23:22] <hober> np
  226. # [23:23] <@tantek> also regarding your point in the email about "assuming willing editors can be found" - consider me found for editing the hCard-in-HTML5 and hCalendar-in-HTML5 works, and a backup for the citations-in-HTML5 work (nominating Brian Suda as the primary editor for citations since he has put the most effort into it).
  227. # [23:25] <hober> I didn't think that would be a problem. Was just making sure the email didn't imply that I was volunteering to do the extracting/editing. :)
  228. # [23:30] <mfbot> Tantek edited html5 "/* Requests */ updated to reference specific brainstorm pages on respective microformats" (+397) http://is.gd/1ipnl
  229. # [23:30] <mfbot> BenWard created test-fixture-issues "Documented test-fixture suggestions we might consider before putting into production." http://is.gd/1ipnr
  230. # [23:31] <@tantek> hober - indeed. It's good that you raised the points though. I'm keeping them in mind as I edit hCard 1.0.1 and hCalendar 1.0.1.
  231. # [23:32] <@tantek> Thanks Phae. Also - feel free to contribute your experiences with microformats and the <time> element to the respective brainstorming sections linked from http://microformats.org/wiki/HTML5#Requests
  232. # [23:33] <@Phae> aye
  233. # [23:44] <@tantek> bbiab
  234. # [23:47] <mfbot> Tantek created microdata "stubbed" http://is.gd/1iqa7
  235. # [23:47] <mfbot> Tantek edited html5 "link microdata" (+4) http://is.gd/1iqb6
  236. # [23:49] * Joins: Zitter (n=danilo@93-42-153-78.ip87.fastwebnet.it)
  237. # [23:51] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@adsl-63-195-114-133.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
  238. # [23:52] * Quits: tim_hwang (n=chatzill@c-71-192-163-225.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  239. # [23:58] * Quits: @Phae (n=phaeness@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust747.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  240. # Session Close: Tue Jun 30 00:00:00 2009

The end :)