/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-07-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Jul 21 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  11. # [00:43] <Dan> Hey, I have a question regarding hCard
  12. # [00:43] <Dan> Is it possible to just have the hCard data rendered in the source, and not on the page
  13. # [00:43] <Dan> ie, in a comment- so its viewable in the source but not on the page
  14. # [00:43] <Dan> I cant use the <span> stuff for a bunch of reasons I wont bore you all with :)
  15. # [00:44] <singpolyma> Dan: no. You could style it invisible, but you cannot put it in a comment or anything like that
  16. # [00:44] <singpolyma> The idea of microformats is sort of to mark up content that's already in the page anyway
  17. # [00:44] <Dan> yeah i know
  18. # [00:44] <Dan> but as google is now supporting it
  19. # [00:44] <Dan> I would like to add it to my users profile pages
  20. # [00:45] <Dan> but the existing content wont play nice with that format
  21. # [00:45] <Dan> so your saying I can just put all the data in a div display none
  22. # [00:45] <Dan> and that should work
  23. # [00:45] <Dan> ?
  24. # [00:45] <Dan> :)
  25. # [00:45] <singpolyma> Why won't it? You don't already have a name on the profile page?
  26. # [00:45] <hober> in what way does the current format not play well with hcard?
  27. # [00:46] <Dan> Its complicated, but lets just say its a major undertaking to try and fix it
  28. # [00:46] <Dan> so lets just say
  29. # [00:46] <Dan> Will it validate ok
  30. # [00:46] <Dan> in a hidden div
  31. # [00:46] <hober> with the include pattern, you should be able to mark up lots of weird pages correctly
  32. # [00:46] <singpolyma> Well, why can't you just put the classes on your existing nodes?
  33. # [00:46] <Dan> because input doesnt always end correctly
  34. # [00:46] <hober> Dan: invisible data is frowned upon...
  35. # [00:46] <Dan> trust me, Its just not possible currently
  36. # [00:46] <Dan> without alot of work
  37. # [00:47] <singpolyma> "end correctly" ?
  38. # [00:47] <Dan> :|
  39. # [00:47] <singpolyma> All you need is a class name on a node, there are no fancy requirements
  40. # [00:47] <Dan> Will it validate as invisible
  41. # [00:48] <singpolyma> If you display:none it most parsers will accept it, yes. But I honestly think you think it's more complicated a format than it is
  42. # [00:48] <hober> AFAIK, there's no official hcard validator, so I'd say "that depends on which validator you use"
  43. # [00:48] <singpolyma> Any and all HTML with the right data in it should be able to have hCard added
  44. # [00:48] <singpolyma> That's kind of the point
  45. # [00:48] <hober> did you have a particular microformat validator in mind?
  46. # [00:49] <Dan> No
  47. # [00:49] <Dan> well, google
  48. # [00:49] <Dan> but im not sure they have one i can try with
  49. # [00:49] <Dan> let me show you something, as to my issue
  50. # [00:49] <Dan> <span class="tel">
  51. # [00:49] <Dan> <span class="type">home</span>:
  52. # [00:49] <Dan> <span class="value">+1.415.555.1212</span>
  53. # [00:49] <Dan> </span>
  54. # [00:49] <Dan> Thats a normal instance of a accepted class
  55. # [00:49] <singpolyma> Sure, that's an example of a complex case of tel
  56. # [00:49] <Dan> so with my profiles, I know that a user *might* have a home phone listed
  57. # [00:49] <Dan> maybe, you dont know
  58. # [00:50] <Dan> so what I can do, is in my source code
  59. # [00:50] <Dan> put the first span class before it
  60. # [00:50] <Dan> and expect that they will list home and phone #
  61. # [00:50] <Dan> the issue im coming up with
  62. # [00:50] <singpolyma> Well, likely you would not use span in your code
  63. # [00:50] <Dan> is that if they dont list it- the first will still display, but then the closign tag wont show up
  64. # [00:50] <Dan> the div display none seems really easy to do- a elegant solution :D
  65. # [00:50] <Dan> Honestly, thats good enough for me
  66. # [00:51] <singpolyma> I'm not sure I understand the problem
  67. # [00:51] <Dan> Its ok
  68. # [00:51] <Dan> just trust me that its a bitch
  69. # [00:51] <Dan> and im lazy
  70. # [00:51] <singpolyma> You don't know if there is a tel or not, and you're afraid of putting the class on an empty node?
  71. # [00:51] <Dan> ><
  72. # [00:51] <Dan> lol
  73. # [00:51] <singpolyma> Microformats are designed for lazy publishers :)
  74. # [00:51] <hober> Yeah, I'm having trouble understanding your problem. It sounds like the placement of conditionals in your template need work
  75. # [00:51] <Dan> Il show you in 15 minutes
  76. # [00:52] <singpolyma> Like, for one, you seem to think you need to use a <span> tag
  77. # [00:52] <singpolyma> You don't
  78. # [00:52] <hober> {if has-a-phone-number}<span class="tel">...</span>{end if}
  79. # [00:52] <hober> or whatever
  80. # [00:52] <Dan> dont you need categories also
  81. # [00:52] <Dan> <span class="tel">
  82. # [00:52] <Dan> then home
  83. # [00:52] <Dan> work
  84. # [00:52] <Dan> etc.
  85. # [00:52] <singpolyma> Only if you are outputting that data
  86. # [00:52] <hober> well, I left out the ... :)
  87. # [00:52] <singpolyma> It's optional
  88. # [00:53] <singpolyma> If it's actually hard to do microformats right in your template, that might be worth documenting for furthur revisions of hCard
  89. # [00:53] <singpolyma> It should be easy in any HTML
  90. # [00:53] <singpolyma> That's the whole point
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  92. # [00:58] <Dan> well
  93. # [00:58] <Dan> in a few
  94. # [00:58] <Dan> il show ya why
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  101. # [01:36] <Daniel__a> jesus freenode
  102. # [01:36] * Daniel__a is now known as Dan_Blake
  103. # [01:36] <Dan_Blake> Hi, its me
  104. # [01:37] <singpolyma> "it's me" is not a very descriptive statement ;)
  105. # [01:38] <Dan_Blake> the guy complaining a few lines back
  106. # [01:38] <singpolyma> :)
  107. # [01:38] <Dan_Blake> http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/20/cardly-lets-you-create-cool-online-business-cards-in-a-matter-of-minutes/
  108. # [01:38] <Dan_Blake> There ya go
  109. # [01:40] <singpolyma> Ok...?
  110. # [01:41] <Dan_Blake> supporting 50+ themes
  111. # [01:41] <Dan_Blake> with variable data input
  112. # [01:41] <Dan_Blake> and unexpected ends, not showing up at all, etc..
  113. # [01:41] <Dan_Blake> not easy
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  115. # [01:42] <singpolyma> So... looking at markup at http://card.ly/demo it seems to have hCard in the markup...
  116. # [01:42] <singpolyma> Supporting themes and supporting hCard should be orthogonal problems
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  225. # [20:30] <mfbot> Tantek edited Main Page "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Rigelye|Rigelye]] ([[User talk:Rigelye|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Angelogladding|Angelogladding]]" (-322) http://is.gd/1GEwQ
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  227. # [20:36] <mfbot> Tantek edited resources "Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Rigelye|Rigelye]] ([[User talk:Rigelye|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:RyanKing|RyanKing]]" (-33) http://is.gd/1GES7
  228. # [20:38] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@216.239.45.19)
  229. # [20:40] <@tantek> singpolyma - I've found that I'm working on many diso-conceptually related things recently, went into #diso and found factoryjoe there
  230. # [20:40] <singpolyma> We have a #diso?
  231. # [20:40] * singpolyma was unaware
  232. # [20:40] <factoryjoe> heh
  233. # [20:40] <factoryjoe> yep
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  240. # [21:08] <@tantek> leahculver, benward, any interest in doing a microformats dinner tonight?
  241. # [21:09] <@tantek> maybe some place in the mission?
  242. # [21:09] <leahculver> tantek: I have plans :(
  243. # [21:09] <@tantek> factoryjoe - you too, now that you're in the neighborhood
  244. # [21:09] <factoryjoe> uh
  245. # [21:09] <factoryjoe> trying to decide whether to go to san jose for identica meetup and open source awards
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  249. # [21:10] <@benward> Pah, San Jose. You live with us now, you'll never need to visit another neighborhood again!
  250. # [21:10] <leahculver> tantek: oscon stuff is pretty crazy
  251. # [21:11] <leahculver> I feel like I haven't been to a microformats dinner in FOREVER
  252. # [21:11] <@benward> tantek I could do. I'm a bit nervous of how much work I have on so can't 100% commit. Might get swept along by end of the day.
  253. # [21:12] <factoryjoe> i'm in benward's position too
  254. # [21:12] <factoryjoe> hence the dual hesitancy of going to SJ
  255. # [21:13] <KevinMarks> San Jose ftw
  256. # [21:13] <factoryjoe> heh
  257. # [21:13] <factoryjoe> it's 1 hr if i drive, 2 by caltrain
  258. # [21:14] <factoryjoe> therefore SJ FTL
  259. # [21:14] <@benward> You have a parking space, factoryjoe?
  260. # [21:14] <factoryjoe> i have a garage, yes
  261. # [21:14] <@benward> Oooooh
  262. # [21:14] <factoryjoe> @brynn brought her car from San Diego
  263. # [21:15] <factoryjoe> i'm trying to keep my driving to a minimum though!
  264. # [21:15] <factoryjoe> and i've already driven to SJ twice this week!
  265. # [21:15] <factoryjoe> and i have to go back at least two more times... 3 if i go tonight
  266. # [21:15] <factoryjoe> :(
  267. # [21:15] <KevinMarks> welcome to my life visiting SF...
  268. # [21:16] <KevinMarks> it's an hour on Caltrain if you pick the early evening ones
  269. # [21:17] <factoryjoe> yeah?
  270. # [21:17] <factoryjoe> hmm ok
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  273. # [21:22] <@tantek> benward - I know what you mean - I'm trying to juggle microformats to-do items before microformatsDevCamp
  274. # [21:22] <KevinMarks> which is exactly when the freeway makes it more than an hour to drive :D
  275. # [21:23] <@tantek> figuring out what will have the most helpful impact if it is done first etc.
  276. # [21:23] <@tantek> we can still set one up tentatively, often even a few hours of advance notice is enough to get a few people
  277. # [21:23] <@tantek> KevinMarks - are you at OSCON this week?
  278. # [21:24] <KevinMarks> I am fro some of it, yes - talking tomorrow
  279. # [21:28] <KevinMarks> I'm in the open govt panel, going to be advocating a microformats approach http://en.oreilly.com/oscon2009/public/schedule/detail/8453
  280. # [21:28] <@tantek> Kevin - that's awesome.
  281. # [21:29] <@tantek> here's my thinking on opengov so far: http://tr.im/opengov - in case that helps with reference/specific points.
  282. # [21:29] <@tantek> you've got strong co-panelists as well
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  284. # [21:29] <KevinMarks> excellent - anyone else got good examples?
  285. # [21:30] <factoryjoe> the newstrust news might be good to cite
  286. # [21:30] <KevinMarks> I was also going to talk about the mysociety stuff in the UK
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  291. # [21:45] <innovati> hey guys, I have some questions I haven't seen the answers for on the site - why should I use them on my website? what software currently reads or takes advantage of microformats? what future benefit will using microformats today give me? and is there any way I can publish microformat formatted content using plugins to my existing software or website?
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  293. # [21:46] <@tantek> innovati - a good place to start is the FAQ
  294. # [21:46] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/faq
  295. # [21:46] <@tantek> for software implementations see: http://microformats.org/wiki/implementations
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  297. # [21:46] <@tantek> for existing plugins and CMS support, see http://microformats.org/wiki/cms
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  301. # [21:47] <factoryjoe> tantek: is there a "getting started with microformats" page on the site?
  302. # [21:48] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/ - getting started is right at the top
  303. # [21:48] <innovati> tantek: aha! the faq looks good, will read that before continuing in here.... this sort of page almost merits a link on the front page of the main site eh?
  304. # [21:48] <@tantek> innovati - yes, there's definitely some need to update the IA of the main site with better links to resources in the wiki. I've been working on that recently.
  305. # [21:49] <@tantek> innovati - you may find this useful too: http://microformats.org/wiki/introduction
  306. # [21:49] * innovati feels like christmas!
  307. # [21:54] * innovati finally got the pun in 'A Touch of Class' and feels like an idiot *facepalm*
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  309. # [21:57] <innovati> does anybody refer to them as µformats?
  310. # [21:57] <singpolyma> innovati: µfs or ufs usually
  311. # [22:01] <innovati> singpolyma: ahh, you're way ahead of me then - good to know
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  315. # [22:06] <innovati> tantek: thanks for the links - I've already put hCard on my site yesterday and I like what I see - I'm gonna see if I can add a lot more in the future
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  318. # [22:16] <@tantek> innovati - that's great - add your site to the hCard examples in wild page then: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-examples-in-wild
  319. # [22:16] <mfbot> Tantek edited hcard-supporting-user-profiles "noted one kind of hCard examples in the wild" (+76) http://is.gd/1GJYu
  320. # [22:19] <innovati> is there a µfs validator anywhere? I'd hate to put it there if it wasn't pure
  321. # [22:19] <singpolyma> innovati: Optimus
  322. # [22:19] <singpolyma> Google "Optimus Microformats"
  323. # [22:20] <@tantek> innovati - most of what you are asking for you can find by searching the wiki
  324. # [22:20] <@tantek> e.g.
  325. # [22:20] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/validators
  326. # [22:20] <@tantek> and singpolyma - same for Optimus: http://microformats.org/wiki/optimus
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  328. # [22:25] <innovati> I will add the site to the µfs in the wild when the site goes live instead of being on my dev server
  329. # [22:26] <@tantek> yes - that's a good idea :)
  330. # [22:28] <innovati> I'm a trained graphic designer and linux/oss fanboy, and I just got a job doing web design... I need to learn better html/css practices too *cringes*
  331. # [22:29] <@tantek> hopefully the POSH pages will help with that: http://microformats.org/wiki/posh
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The end :)