/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-07-30 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 30 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  4. # [00:05] <bradley-holt> What are folks thoughts on the AP using the hNews microformat supposedly to provide a "platform for protect, point, and pay" (DRM but not really)? http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/07/drm-for-news-inside-the-aps-plan-to-wrap-its-content.ars
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  8. # [00:12] <hober> bradley-holt: well, first off, it's not a microformat.
  9. # [00:12] <factoryjoe> hober: what is it?
  10. # [00:13] <@tantek> right - I believe their draft itself says explicitly that it is a poshformat
  11. # [00:13] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/poshformat
  12. # [00:13] <bradley-holt> hober: But it claims to be :-) http://valueaddednews.org/technical/techspec -- someone should tell them to stop calling it a microformat.
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  14. # [00:13] <factoryjoe> they want the good mojo
  15. # [00:13] <@tantek> bradley-hold - read that URL you just posted
  16. # [00:13] <@tantek> This specification is a work-in-progress and is subject to change. It is not a formal microformat specification.
  17. # [00:13] <@tantek> It is intended that this draft specification will enter the microformats process, but in the meantime it should be considered a poshformat.
  18. # [00:13] <benward_> Tantek. The second paragraph says ‘hNews is a microformat’
  19. # [00:14] <bradley-holt> I did, conflicting statements, 2nd paragraph saids: "hNews is a microformat for news content."
  20. # [00:14] <bradley-holt> yes, exactly
  21. # [00:14] <benward_> The first paragraph has clearly been added later to clarify our concerns, but the document as a whole hasn't been edited.
  22. # [00:14] <benward_> I'm happy enough with the intro.
  23. # [00:14] <@tantek> bradley-holt - in progress drafts often contain boilerplate language like that.
  24. # [00:14] <bradley-holt> And the Ars Technica article calls it a microformat -- someone should call them on that.
  25. # [00:14] <benward_> They contradict themselves but the first paragraph is stronger worded
  26. # [00:15] <@tantek> so that a search and replace doesn't have to be done at the last minute
  27. # [00:15] <bradley-holt> @tantek: that makes sense
  28. # [00:15] <bradley-holt> Makes it seem like microformats is some sort of DRM scheme, which is a bit disconcerting to see.
  29. # [00:16] <@tantek> yes, the first paragraph could clarify that too, "the remainder of this draft refers to hNews as microformat purely for draft purposes, not to imply that hNews actually *is* a microformat"
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  74. # [04:47] <madness> re: the hnews spec
  75. # [04:48] <madness> the first paragraph is mine, but the other references to microformats belong to others.
  76. # [04:48] <madness> before I mess around with everyone elses wording, I want to talk to them (people at AP)
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  78. # [04:49] <madness> but the relevant people are all on holiday
  79. # [04:51] <@tantek> madness perhaps you could add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people
  80. # [04:52] <@tantek> oh there you are!
  81. # [04:52] <@tantek> hi mark
  82. # [04:52] <@tantek> welcome - I have to go for a bit but will be back later tonight.
  83. # [04:53] <madness> sorry, this is an old old IRC nickname
  84. # [04:53] <madness> and I still have nickserv/chanserv for other channels attached to it !
  85. # [04:54] <madness> I'll be starting on the history/changesets brainstorming stuff tomorrow
  86. # [04:54] <madness> catch you soon.
  87. # [04:54] <madness> also, I spoke to people at AP about the rights/machine readable issue
  88. # [04:55] <madness> it's now understood at their end and they're going to consider their next move
  89. # [04:56] <@tantek> madness - see and add to http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-brainstorming
  90. # [04:56] <madness> history, or rights ?
  91. # [04:56] <madness> ahh, yes
  92. # [04:56] <madness> history
  93. # [04:56] <madness> will do
  94. # [04:57] <@tantek> and http://microformats.org/wiki/licensing-brainstorming
  95. # [04:57] <@tantek> history? that's not part of the proposal AFAIk
  96. # [04:57] <@tantek> and "rights" is problematic - not even worth exploring making a format for it
  97. # [04:57] <@tantek> licensing that links to a human readable URL yes, machine-encoded rights no.
  98. # [04:58] <@tantek> we're not going to repeat ccREL's mistakes.
  99. # [04:58] <madness> re: rights
  100. # [04:58] <madness> understood
  101. # [04:58] <madness> and the message has been passed on and understood at AP, too
  102. # [04:58] <madness> at least at a technical level
  103. # [04:59] <madness> I think the next step there is actually a conversation between organisations like AP and Creative Commons themselves
  104. # [04:59] <madness> and working on item-license
  105. # [04:59] <@tantek> yeah we need to engage Creative Commons more broadly to encourage far simpler markup
  106. # [04:59] <madness> there's another thing that AP found interesting though, and that's the idea of embedding a licensing contact
  107. # [04:59] <@tantek> the ccREL/RDFa stuff they have going/encouraging now is a non-starter to most webdevs
  108. # [04:59] <madness> but that behaviour needs to be established before it's worth it becoming a microformat.
  109. # [05:00] <@tantek> "embedding" is for anything that is text is the wrong framing
  110. # [05:00] <@tantek> it should always "just" be marking up
  111. # [05:00] <madness> right, wrong choice of language, rather than concept on my part
  112. # [05:00] <@tantek> that is, anything that is text based should already be visible in the content, and the markup should simply ideally demarcate it
  113. # [05:01] <@tantek> right - in things like formats, choice of language is important
  114. # [05:01] <@tantek> I think before engaging Creative Commons on a technical level, we should have a "licensing" microformat draft ready to engage with
  115. # [05:01] <@tantek> otherwise the likely answer will be "use RDFa for everything"
  116. # [05:02] <@tantek> anyway - be back in a while
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  160. # [10:08] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki/irc - if you are new here, add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people'
  161. # [10:08] * Set by tantek on Mon Apr 09 17:30:07
  162. # [10:08] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
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  167. # [10:21] * Set by tantek on Mon Apr 09 17:30:07
  168. # [10:21] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
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  206. # [17:00] <rohit> ping
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  210. # [17:07] <@tantek> hi rohit
  211. # [17:07] <@tantek> have you figured out how to setup your IRC client to use a registered nickname?
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  215. # [17:16] <Guest50859> nope, still wondering which of my machines has the right password for rohit in its Keychain
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  218. # [17:17] <Guest50859> I saw the word "ping" fly by at 7:55AM appearing to be sent as "rohit" -- what did you see
  219. # [17:17] <@tantek> yes I saw that and then you got renicked to Guest50859 moments later
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  227. # [17:58] * Guest29794 is now known as rohit
  228. # [17:58] * rohit is now known as Guest71538
  229. # [17:58] * Guest71538 is now known as rohitkhare
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  280. # [21:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +o benward
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  286. # Session Close: Fri Jul 31 00:00:00 2009

The end :)