/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2009-10-01 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Thu Oct 01 00:00:00 2009
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:03] <JonathanMalek> That way, there is value in even taking the first step (and simply producing hatom). If the publisher, or anyone wanting to get started with microformats wants to start there, they can--and if there is any incentive to move to the stricter format, they can.
  4. # [00:13] <JonathanMalek> Incidentally, the more I think about the "nothing required", the more I like it. The risk, it seems to me, is there isn't a single data point for you (as a consumer) to differentiate the information you're looking at. It might be that in an effort to avoid the "90210" effect on data, we tumble into the "wasteland" effect, full of partially described and often indistinguishable points of data.
  5. # [00:13] * Quits: themattharris (n=thematth@67.180.202.79) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  6. # [00:15] <JonathanMalek> I suppose the compensation for that then is that consumers can choose when to ignore content, deciding for themselves what is "enough". For instance, Google might decide to ignore certain hcalendar events that don't provide enough information for *them*. Is that your intent?
  7. # [00:22] * Joins: abernier (n=abernier@AAubervilliers-551-1-4-54.w90-61.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  8. # [00:35] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-tfkifcvpsilfyopw)
  9. # [00:39] * Quits: ethicaljunction (n=ethicalj@cpc2-barn3-0-0-cust615.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  10. # [00:41] <madness> isn't the argument over whether it is hnews or hatom a semantic and philosophical one to a point ?
  11. # [00:41] <madness> (jon, in case you haven't noticed, this is Mark Ng)
  12. # [00:41] <madness> if we accept that *everything* is optional, then hnews just defines some extra data points you can add to make it more "news flavoured"
  13. # [00:41] * Joins: themattharris (n=thematth@123.sub-75-209-97.myvzw.com)
  14. # [00:42] <madness> I've always thought the principles battle is better fought in the way that creative commons have
  15. # [00:43] <madness> the only thing that changed my mind about that a bit is the fact that actually it *is* an existing pattern
  16. # [00:43] <madness> particularly when we add next-in-parent to principles, as we were discussing yesterday in response to Miles
  17. # [00:44] <madness> JonathanMalek: fyi, themattharris has been working with us a little bit, too. He's finishing off some of my earlier practical experiments with crawlers and APIs
  18. # [00:47] <madness> themattharris: if you've been catching the conversation, your opinion may be useful
  19. # [00:48] <themattharris> i'm just reading over it
  20. # [00:48] <themattharris> wifi connection slipped so i missed a segment
  21. # [00:50] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-snuzmikaterdzwom)
  22. # [00:50] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  23. # [00:51] <madness> themattharris: I'll paste it to you via skype
  24. # [00:56] <themattharris> thanks Mark
  25. # [00:56] <madness> np
  26. # [01:01] <madness> so, Matt was suggesting that it's pointless parser load for an article specifying hnews if it doesn't have one of the currently required fields, also
  27. # [01:01] <madness> though I'm not sure how much we care about parser load
  28. # [01:01] <themattharris> so looking over the bits i missed from the log we're talking about whether any fields in hnews should be required or not. My view is at least one field should be required for the hnews container to be used. Most likely principles (through rel='principles'). Otherwise markup would include the hnews container class but have no hnews data elements. So if an item has no hnews fields, then don't mark it up as hnews (leave the class
  29. # [01:01] <themattharris> off). It's better doing that than having every field optional as this way a parser is still going to look for hnews content even when there is none.
  30. # [01:02] <madness> which is an interesting idea
  31. # [01:02] <madness> JonathanMalek: how important are rights, datelines and source organisations as required elements ?
  32. # [01:02] <madness> JonathanMalek: rights don't have to be expressed for a document to be news, right ?
  33. # [01:03] <madness> JonathanMalek: and a source organisation would be considered as default the organisation which is publishing it ?
  34. # [01:03] <madness> JonathanMalek: does a marked up dateline make it "news" ?
  35. # [01:05] <JonathanMalek> madness: rights has been replaced with item-license (from the licensing-brainstorming page), and yes, it is required
  36. # [01:05] <madness> sorry, I meant item-license
  37. # [01:05] <JonathanMalek> dateline is currently optional, as some organizations do not provide a dateline.
  38. # [01:05] <madness> yup
  39. # [01:05] <themattharris> agreed
  40. # [01:05] <JonathanMalek> and source-org is also required.
  41. # [01:06] <madness> so, I'm looking at an option for many of Miles' issues being next-in-parent for both rights and principles
  42. # [01:06] <themattharris> and source-org should still traverse back up the dom if it can't find one inside the hnews container?
  43. # [01:07] <madness> but of course, when that's the case, rel-license should be valid *as well as* item-license
  44. # [01:07] <madness> right ?
  45. # [01:07] <JonathanMalek> I'm open to making item-license and principles follow the source-org approach.
  46. # [01:07] <JonathanMalek> however, in an earlier discussion (looking for it now), I thought I caught a little dislike for the nearest-in-parent algorithm.
  47. # [01:07] <JonathanMalek> it certainly simplifies things signfiicantly.
  48. # [01:09] <madness> it's harder to parse, but I thought Miles' concerns about principles or rights statements being in other places would certainly be in a large (probably majority) of cases, true for other potential adopters
  49. # [01:09] <madness> tantek: any known dislike or reason for dislike of nearest-in-parent ?
  50. # [01:09] <JonathanMalek> that's certainly the feedback I've been looking for. That's been very helpful.
  51. # [01:10] <JonathanMalek> madness: would you like to open a new issue, or pursue this as part of Miles' open issue?
  52. # [01:11] <madness> JonathanMalek: nearest-in-parent seems to solve miles' rights issue.
  53. # [01:11] <themattharris> would it be sites would commonly locate their rights/principles in the footer of the site, like IP/Copyright notices?
  54. # [01:11] <madness> JonathanMalek: but not his principles issue
  55. # [01:11] <madness> themattharris: yup, thus why we're considering nearest-in-parent with rel-license
  56. # [01:11] <themattharris> ok, that was my understanding so it's good to have that confirmed
  57. # [01:11] * @tantek does some catching up
  58. # [01:12] <@tantek> nearest-in-parent makes sense to parser writers, but not so much to web authors
  59. # [01:12] * madness should really surrender the irc nick he's had since he was 16 years old.
  60. # [01:12] <@tantek> it's a very "techy" expression
  61. # [01:12] * madness is now known as markng
  62. # [01:13] <@tantek> and sounds like confusing jargon - actually worse - it uses "familiar" words in a way which has merely metaphorical resemblance to their familiar meaning
  63. # [01:13] <@tantek> welcome markng ;)
  64. # [01:13] <markng> sorry, I'm in some other freenode channels that know me as that
  65. # [01:13] <themattharris> from a developer point of view i see nearest-in-parent working, but for web authors i agree with Tantek that they won't necessarily get which the parent is. Thinking of the case where we have an author in the hatom. the nearest in parent for source-org if not defined would be that author - no?
  66. # [01:13] <markng> but hey, I don't play #nethack anymore :P
  67. # [01:14] <markng> so, is that a case of us not explaining nearest in parent well enough, or it being too complex a statement ?
  68. # [01:14] <@tantek> for hAtom it has been very confusing
  69. # [01:15] <@tantek> for authors
  70. # [01:15] <@tantek> markng - both
  71. # [01:15] <themattharris> both
  72. # [01:15] <markng> so introducing it in more elements for hnews would be a problem ?
  73. # [01:15] <@tantek> any time you have to depend on hierarchy, you will confuse a lot of authors
  74. # [01:15] <markng> and is it a greater problem that it introduces than the problem it solves ?
  75. # [01:15] <@tantek> markng - yes - this is something that needs to be fixed in hAtom 0.4
  76. # [01:16] <@tantek> er, make that 0.2
  77. # [01:16] <markng> I was going to say
  78. # [01:16] * @tantek was thinking hReview
  79. # [01:16] <markng> what happened while I blinked ? :)
  80. # [01:16] * Quits: thomasknoll (n=thomaskn@75-25-157-106.uvs.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) ("Leaving.")
  81. # [01:17] <@tantek> themattharris - could you add the nearest-in-parent confusion issue to hatom-issues? http://microformats.org/wiki/hatom-issues
  82. # [01:18] <@tantek> JonathanMalek - I just realized, it might help folks working on hNews get a broader view of the issues involved if hnews-issues (or where it got moved to) linked to hatom-issues as a see-also dependency.
  83. # [01:19] <markng> I'll do that now.
  84. # [01:19] <@tantek> thanks markng
  85. # [01:19] <@tantek> markng btw, themattharris has your brand new microformats t-shirt :)
  86. # [01:19] <markng> tantek: awesome. that sounds like a good excuse for me to come to SF ;)
  87. # [01:20] <themattharris> markng - you need an excuse?
  88. # [01:20] <markng> themattharris: well, no, but I have to get IPTC/Washington DC down first
  89. # [01:20] <markng> themattharris: I mean, a t-shirt is a flimsy excuse ;)
  90. # [01:21] <markng> is news-issues now large enough to be seperated from news-brainstorming ?
  91. # [01:22] <themattharris> tantek - just reading through the issues on hatom at the moment. don't want to duplicate anything
  92. # [01:22] <JonathanMalek> tantek: great point on linking to hatom-issues
  93. # [01:22] <JonathanMalek> madness: I was keeping it all inline until it got large enough, happy to break it out.
  94. # [01:24] <markng> added a link
  95. # [01:24] <JonathanMalek> does any other microformat use neared-in-parent, besides hatom?
  96. # [01:24] <JonathanMalek> neared->nearest
  97. # [01:25] <markng> http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/algorithm-nearest-in-parent
  98. # [01:25] <markng> doesn't look like it
  99. # [01:26] * Quits: @benward (n=benward@nat/yahoo/x-hgpzpmovmrarkido) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  100. # [01:26] <markng> so re: principles
  101. # [01:27] <markng> the nearest-in-parent doesn't solve the other problems
  102. # [01:27] <@tantek> btw - another way folks tend to say things like "nearest-in-parent" is "inheritance"
  103. # [01:27] <@tantek> e.g. in CSS
  104. # [01:28] <markng> so, I'm tempted to suggest that things that have no principles should just remain hatom and not have an hnews root
  105. # [01:28] <markng> for the reasons matt suggests
  106. # [01:28] <@tantek> markng - that's kind of hilarious. it's not news if it doesn't have principles!
  107. # [01:28] <@tantek> ;)
  108. # [01:29] <@tantek> (and also misleading IMHO)
  109. # [01:29] <markng> tantek: well, that's kind of my point ;)
  110. # [01:29] <markng> tantek: but we had this conversation about philosophy and the differences between rel-principles and the microformats movement already
  111. # [01:29] <@tantek> did we?
  112. # [01:30] <markng> tantek: yeah, when I was suggesting at ufdevcamp that rel-principles may not even belong to microformats anyway
  113. # [01:30] <markng> in terms of documenting a pattern, as opposed to our campaign for publishers to publish their principles
  114. # [01:30] <@tantek> why? if it's a rel value, and has real world examples that could make it useful, it makes sense to research it and develop it as a microformat
  115. # [01:30] <@tantek> and I think you showed me existing sites that linked to their principles
  116. # [01:30] <markng> well, yeah, I've changed my mind since then :P
  117. # [01:31] <@tantek> you could suggest it as a poshformat sure, but I think you are doing yourself a disservice
  118. # [01:31] <markng> so I guess your argument is that it can be news and have no principles whatsoever
  119. # [01:31] <@tantek> I think your position is stronger than that
  120. # [01:31] <markng> yeah, now that I've done a bit more work on it, I'm convinced of it too
  121. # [01:31] <@tantek> you just need to document the examples of news orgs that are already publishing their principles and linking to them
  122. # [01:31] <markng> I've done a bit of that.
  123. # [01:31] <@tantek> start with http://microformats.org/wiki/principles-examples
  124. # [01:32] <@tantek> I mean continue with, of course :)
  125. # [01:32] <markng> Should I also put a copy of the poshformat spec I already have in principles-brainstorming, too ?
  126. # [01:32] <markng> http://newscredit.org/development/newscredit-specification/rel-principles-specification/
  127. # [01:33] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-snuzmikaterdzwom)
  128. # [01:33] <markng> so, tantek what do you think makes it worth using the root container "hnews" class ?
  129. # [01:36] <JonathanMalek> tantek: when you have time, would like to pick up the parent/inheritance thread.
  130. # [01:37] <@tantek> JonathanMalek - the right place to do that is in hAtom issues
  131. # [01:37] <JonathanMalek> I understand that the algorithm is complex, but it is an alternative--not the only way to do things
  132. # [01:37] <@tantek> it's both the algorithm and the name
  133. # [01:38] <@tantek> I think it's actually making a simple thing unnecessarily complex
  134. # [01:38] * @tantek is a little annoyed with the rel-design-pattern page
  135. # [01:38] <JonathanMalek> hmm
  136. # [01:38] <@tantek> just using a feature as it's defined, e.g. the rel attribute, is NOT a design pattern
  137. # [01:38] <@tantek> there is no "design"
  138. # [01:38] <@tantek> there is no "pattern"
  139. # [01:39] <@tantek> it's just "using a feature"
  140. # [01:39] * @tantek wonders if people call things "design patterns" just to make them sound more interesting
  141. # [01:40] <JonathanMalek> well--I agree--I'll keep this on the wiki.
  142. # [01:41] <markng> tantek: can change the text of rel-principles to reflect that, if you like.
  143. # [01:43] <@tantek> JonathanMalek - thank you - it's ok by me if whoever adds the "nearest-in-parent" complexity/comprehensibility issue to the wiki (hatom-issues) - we can then all expand on it and express aspects of the problem and possible solutions.
  144. # [01:44] <@tantek> markng - please do
  145. # [01:44] <@tantek> I just put a strong warning / instructions to fix at the top of http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-design-pattern
  146. # [01:44] <markng> tbh, I was just blindly copying rel-license
  147. # [01:45] <markng> that said, rel-license doesn't have that
  148. # [01:45] <markng> so I must have either copied and earlier version, or something else.
  149. # [01:47] <markng> http://microformats.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/rel-design-pattern <-- there's alot to choose from
  150. # [01:47] <@tantek> yeah
  151. # [01:48] * @tantek should have nipped that in the bud long ago.
  152. # [01:51] <markng> that's the thing about patterns ;)
  153. # [01:51] <markng> people copy them ;)
  154. # [01:52] <@tantek> yeah, they tend to replicate
  155. # [02:08] * Quits: mkaply (n=chatzill@cpe-72-177-69-140.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  156. # [02:09] * Joins: mkaply (n=chatzill@cpe-72-177-69-140.austin.res.rr.com)
  157. # [02:12] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  158. # [02:13] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  159. # [02:13] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  160. # [02:21] * Quits: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  161. # [02:24] * Joins: benward (n=benward@nat/yahoo/x-qegxaanfsjemmcya)
  162. # [02:24] * ChanServ sets mode: +o benward
  163. # [02:34] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@67.180.202.79)
  164. # [02:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  165. # [02:35] * Joins: themattharris_ (n=thematth@67.180.202.79)
  166. # [02:37] * Quits: @benward (n=benward@nat/yahoo/x-qegxaanfsjemmcya) ("Sleep")
  167. # [02:37] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  168. # [02:39] * Quits: zro (n=zro@wikimedia/zro) ("Death")
  169. # [02:45] * Joins: shigeta (n=shigeta@sakkgw2.sixapart.jp)
  170. # [02:51] * Quits: themattharris (n=thematth@123.sub-75-209-97.myvzw.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  171. # [02:51] * themattharris_ is now known as themattharris
  172. # [02:54] * Joins: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  173. # [02:56] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  174. # [02:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  175. # [02:57] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Client Quit)
  176. # [02:59] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@pdpc/supporter/active/leahculver)
  177. # [02:59] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@67.180.202.79)
  178. # [02:59] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@67.180.202.79)
  179. # [02:59] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  180. # [03:27] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  181. # [03:27] * Joins: TabAtkins_ (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net)
  182. # [03:27] * TabAtkins_ is now known as TabAtkins
  183. # [03:32] * Quits: singpoly1a (n=singpoly@node-11036.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) ("Lost terminal")
  184. # [03:45] * Joins: tantekc (n=tantek@67.180.202.79)
  185. # [03:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantekc
  186. # [03:45] * Joins: themattharris_ (n=thematth@67.180.202.79)
  187. # [03:46] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@67.180.202.79) (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
  188. # [03:46] * tantekc is now known as tantek
  189. # [04:00] * Quits: mkaply (n=chatzill@cpe-72-177-69-140.austin.res.rr.com) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  190. # [04:01] * Quits: themattharris (n=thematth@67.180.202.79) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  191. # [04:01] * themattharris_ is now known as themattharris
  192. # [04:01] * Quits: themattharris (n=thematth@67.180.202.79) ("zzZZ")
  193. # [04:03] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@67.180.202.79)
  194. # [04:12] * Quits: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  195. # [04:16] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  196. # [04:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  197. # [04:25] * Joins: zro (n=zro@wikimedia/zro)
  198. # [04:34] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  199. # [04:34] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  200. # [04:37] * Joins: dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1)
  201. # [04:37] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov_
  202. # [04:57] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  203. # [04:57] * dglazkov_ is now known as dglazkov
  204. # [05:03] * Joins: themattharris (n=thematth@24.130.115.72)
  205. # [05:04] * Quits: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  206. # [05:36] * Joins: benward (n=benward@98.210.154.133)
  207. # [05:36] * ChanServ sets mode: +o benward
  208. # [05:42] * Prometheus is now known as Prometheus\off
  209. # [05:50] * Joins: dglazkov_ (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  210. # [05:50] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov_
  211. # [06:07] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@72.14.224.1) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  212. # [06:07] * dglazkov_ is now known as dglazkov
  213. # [06:48] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  214. # [07:06] * Joins: tantekc (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  215. # [07:06] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantekc
  216. # [07:06] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  217. # [07:06] * tantekc is now known as tantek
  218. # [07:09] * Joins: tantekc (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  219. # [07:09] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantekc
  220. # [07:09] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Connection reset by peer)
  221. # [07:09] * tantekc is now known as tantek
  222. # [07:13] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Client Quit)
  223. # [07:54] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  224. # [07:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  225. # [07:55] * Joins: leahculver (n=leahculv@c-67-180-197-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  226. # [08:23] * Joins: ntoll (n=ntoll@88-111-162-132.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
  227. # [08:36] * Quits: zro (n=zro@wikimedia/zro) ("Death")
  228. # [08:51] * Joins: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl)
  229. # [09:13] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@c-67-180-197-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  230. # [09:34] * Joins: fusss (n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au)
  231. # [09:35] <fusss> could someone point me to a discussion channel for json-rpc, if this is not it.
  232. # [09:41] * Quits: markng (n=mng@64-130-243-194.sparkplugbb.net)
  233. # [09:52] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  234. # [09:57] * Joins: emrojo (n=emrojo@dummyhost12.it.uc3m.es)
  235. # [10:11] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  236. # [10:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  237. # [10:30] * Quits: BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com) ("Leaving.")
  238. # [10:55] * Joins: Phae (n=phaeness@gateb.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  239. # [10:55] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Phae
  240. # [10:58] * Quits: abernier (n=abernier@AAubervilliers-551-1-4-54.w90-61.abo.wanadoo.fr)
  241. # [11:20] * Quits: fusss (n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au) (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
  242. # [11:29] * Joins: MrTopf (n=cs@91.57.100.90)
  243. # [12:13] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  244. # [12:39] * Quits: @benward (n=benward@98.210.154.133) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  245. # [13:18] * Joins: thomasknoll (n=thomaskn@98.210.152.177)
  246. # [14:02] * Quits: shigeta (n=shigeta@sakkgw2.sixapart.jp) ("Leaving...")
  247. # [14:54] * Joins: HerrTopf (n=cs@p5B396991.dip.t-dialin.net)
  248. # [15:02] * Quits: MrTopf (n=cs@91.57.100.90) (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
  249. # [15:02] * HerrTopf is now known as MrTopf
  250. # [15:08] * Quits: thomasknoll (n=thomaskn@98.210.152.177) ("Leaving.")
  251. # [15:20] * Joins: TabAtkins (n=chatzill@70-139-15-246.lightspeed.rsbgtx.sbcglobal.net)
  252. # [15:25] * Quits: Joeboy (n=joe@tubbs.trition.org.uk) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  253. # [15:26] * Quits: jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  254. # [15:26] * Quits: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  255. # [15:26] * Quits: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  256. # [15:26] * Quits: mflogbot (n=PircBot@213.235.239.53) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  257. # [15:26] * Quits: thuddwhirr (n=wolthuis@mimezine.com) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  258. # [15:26] * Quits: _emp_ (n=alex@rakim.cfhp.org) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  259. # [15:26] * Quits: Prometheus\off (n=Promethe@unaffiliated/prometheus) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  260. # [15:26] * Quits: Cloud (n=Cloud@srvgal18-vm5.nuigalway.ie) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  261. # [15:26] * Joins: Joeboy (n=joe@tubbs.trition.org.uk)
  262. # [15:26] * Quits: Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  263. # [15:26] * Joins: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl)
  264. # [15:26] * Joins: hober (n=ted@unaffiliated/hober)
  265. # [15:26] * Joins: mflogbot (n=PircBot@213.235.239.53)
  266. # [15:26] * Joins: thuddwhirr (n=wolthuis@mimezine.com)
  267. # [15:26] * Joins: _emp_ (n=alex@rakim.cfhp.org)
  268. # [15:26] * Joins: jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  269. # [15:26] * Joins: Prometheus\off (n=Promethe@unaffiliated/prometheus)
  270. # [15:26] * Joins: Cloud (n=Cloud@srvgal18-vm5.nuigalway.ie)
  271. # [15:27] * Joins: Danny_B (n=Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.)
  272. # [15:34] * Joins: singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-11036.tor.pppoe.execulink.com)
  273. # [16:11] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  274. # [16:11] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  275. # [16:29] * Prometheus\off is now known as Prometheus
  276. # [16:35] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  277. # [16:39] * Prometheus is now known as Prometheus\off
  278. # [16:39] * Joins: madness (n=mng@ip70-176-92-111.ph.ph.cox.net)
  279. # [16:40] * madness is now known as markng
  280. # [16:50] * Quits: singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-11036.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) ("Lost terminal")
  281. # [16:54] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-zyxbjamjbdtzioxn)
  282. # [16:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  283. # [16:54] * Quits: @dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-zyxbjamjbdtzioxn) (Remote closed the connection)
  284. # [16:54] * Joins: dglazkov (n=dglazkov@nat/google/x-pxjzzyibbdcjuzyq)
  285. # [16:54] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  286. # [17:04] * Joins: abernier (n=abernier@82.98.48.252)
  287. # [17:05] * Joins: _fil_ (n=fil@www.rezo.net)
  288. # [17:05] * Quits: pesla (n=retep@procurios.xs4all.nl) ("( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.21 :: www.esnation.com )")
  289. # [17:19] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  290. # [17:19] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  291. # [17:22] * Joins: dwhittle (n=dwhittle@nat/yahoo/x-aafnqbpwaqvjwudv)
  292. # [17:34] * Joins: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  293. # [17:35] * Prometheus\off is now known as Prometheus
  294. # [17:48] * Quits: dwhittle (n=dwhittle@nat/yahoo/x-aafnqbpwaqvjwudv) ("...")
  295. # [17:49] * Quits: markng (n=mng@ip70-176-92-111.ph.ph.cox.net)
  296. # [18:04] <@tantek> greetings
  297. # [18:04] <@tantek> working on more value class pattern test cases today
  298. # [18:05] <@tantek> Phae, do you know if the BBC has a schedule for re-implementing hCalendar, hAtom etc. now that we have the value-class-pattern to address both accessibility and tooltip issues?
  299. # [18:11] * Prometheus is now known as Prometheus\off
  300. # [18:21] * Quits: abernier (n=abernier@82.98.48.252)
  301. # [18:26] * Quits: jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net) (niven.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
  302. # [18:28] * Joins: jiing (n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
  303. # [18:30] * Quits: @Phae (n=phaeness@gateb.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  304. # [18:31] * Prometheus\off is now known as Prometheus
  305. # [18:37] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
  306. # [18:38] * Joins: tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  307. # [18:38] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  308. # [18:42] * Joins: leahculver (n=leahculv@c-67-180-197-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  309. # [18:47] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@c-67-180-197-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  310. # [18:47] * Joins: leahculver (n=leahculv@c-67-180-197-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  311. # [18:58] * Quits: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-44-35-222.range217-44.btcentralplus.com) (Remote closed the connection)
  312. # [19:10] * Quits: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  313. # [19:15] * Prometheus is now known as Prometheus\off
  314. # [19:26] * Quits: emrojo (n=emrojo@dummyhost12.it.uc3m.es) ("Leaving.")
  315. # [19:27] * Joins: gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host217-44-35-222.range217-44.btcentralplus.com)
  316. # [19:28] * Joins: madness (n=mng@wsip-98-174-253-36.ph.ph.cox.net)
  317. # [19:31] * Joins: singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-11036.tor.pppoe.execulink.com)
  318. # [19:39] * Joins: BobJonkman (n=BobJonkm@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  319. # [19:52] * Joins: JonathanMalek (n=Jonathan@adsl-68-125-51-219.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)
  320. # [19:53] * Quits: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
  321. # [19:58] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@pdpc/supporter/active/leahculver)
  322. # [20:13] * Joins: Amorphous (i=jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  323. # [20:16] * Joins: Prometheg (n=Promethe@bergi.us)
  324. # [20:16] * Prometheg is now known as Prometheus
  325. # [20:28] * Quits: Prometheus\off (n=Promethe@unaffiliated/prometheus) (Read error: 111 (Connection refused))
  326. # [20:52] * Quits: MrTopf (n=cs@p5B396991.dip.t-dialin.net)
  327. # [21:03] * Joins: benward (n=benward@98.210.154.133)
  328. # [21:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o benward
  329. # [21:22] * Joins: benward_ (n=benward@nat/yahoo/x-lhqkijglfcegifwn)
  330. # [21:30] * Joins: thomasknoll (n=thomaskn@dsl081-241-091.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  331. # [21:31] * Quits: @benward (n=benward@98.210.154.133) (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
  332. # [21:43] * Quits: singpolyma (n=singpoly@node-11036.tor.pppoe.execulink.com) ("Lost terminal")
  333. # [22:17] * Parts: thomasknoll (n=thomaskn@dsl081-241-091.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
  334. # [22:54] * Joins: leahculver (n=leahculv@204.9.180.30)
  335. # [23:04] * Quits: leahculver (n=leahculv@204.9.180.30)
  336. # [23:05] * Joins: besbes (n=besbes@91-115-184-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
  337. # [23:07] * Quits: besbes (n=besbes@91-115-184-167.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Client Quit)
  338. # [23:18] * Quits: ntoll (n=ntoll@88-111-162-132.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) ("this is not a quit message")
  339. # [23:33] * Quits: @tantek (n=tantek@70-36-139-108.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  340. # [23:50] * Quits: aux (n=aux@c-76-112-245-77.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) ("leaving")
  341. # Session Close: Fri Oct 02 00:00:00 2009

The end :)