/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2010-02-12 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Fri Feb 12 00:00:00 2010
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:24] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (*.net *.split)
  4. # [00:27] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  5. # [00:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  6. # [00:34] * Joins: mkaply (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-157-58.austin.res.rr.com)
  7. # [00:44] * Joins: ntoll (~ntoll@88-110-129-190.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
  8. # [00:46] * Quits: ntoll (~ntoll@88-110-129-190.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) (Client Quit)
  9. # [01:32] * Joins: boblet (~boblet@p1072-ipbf36osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
  10. # [01:34] * Parts: boblet (~boblet@p1072-ipbf36osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
  11. # [01:39] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  12. # [01:43] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@2620:0:1000:1b01:21f:f3ff:fed0:dd49) (Quit: dglazkov)
  13. # [01:52] * Joins: shigeta (~shigeta@sakkgw2.sixapart.jp)
  14. # [01:53] * Joins: mwunsch (~mwunsch@user-12lcmuc.cable.mindspring.com)
  15. # [01:53] * Quits: mwunsch (~mwunsch@user-12lcmuc.cable.mindspring.com) (Client Quit)
  16. # [01:56] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@c-67-180-202-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  17. # [01:56] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  18. # [02:16] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  19. # [02:16] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  20. # [02:23] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@157.22.22.46) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  21. # [02:33] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  22. # [03:30] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  23. # [03:30] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  24. # [03:57] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-67-164-13-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  25. # [04:10] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@c-67-180-202-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: tantek)
  26. # [04:45] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  27. # [04:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  28. # [04:49] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  29. # [05:00] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  30. # [05:00] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  31. # [06:02] * Quits: mkaply (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-157-58.austin.res.rr.com) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  32. # [06:10] * Quits: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  33. # [06:28] * Joins: Amorphous (jan@unaffiliated/amorphous)
  34. # [06:42] * Joins: boblet (~boblet@p1072-ipbf36osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp)
  35. # [06:43] <boblet> for dtend implied date, is this part of hCalendar now? the “could” language makes me wonder if it’s a proposal…
  36. # [06:43] <boblet> http://microformats.org/wiki/value-class-pattern#hCalendar_dtend_implied_date
  37. # [06:51] * Joins: mkaply (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-157-58.austin.res.rr.com)
  38. # [06:51] * Quits: mkaply (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-157-58.austin.res.rr.com) (Client Quit)
  39. # [07:38] <@tantek> boblet - yes it's been incorporated into hCalendar
  40. # [07:39] * @tantek takes a look at vcp
  41. # [07:39] <@tantek> oh the *implied* date
  42. # [07:40] <@tantek> that's part of vcp - thus if an implementation implements hCalendar + vcp, they are expected to support that
  43. # [07:40] <@tantek> originally I misread what you said and was talking about the dtend-inclusive issue resolution, which has been incorporated into hCalendar
  44. # [07:50] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  45. # [08:11] <boblet> tantek: aah, that makes sense. thanks
  46. # [08:11] * Joins: besbes (~besbes@188-23-189-199.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
  47. # [08:28] * Joins: ntoll (~ntoll@88-110-129-190.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
  48. # [08:36] <boblet> strange. it seems Operator supports value-class pattern and implied dtend, but for <span class="dtend">21:00</span> I get “dtend=2010-02-1721”
  49. # [08:39] <boblet> full code: <span class="dtstart"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年02月17日</abbr> <span class="value">19:00</span></span>時から<span class="dtend">21:00</span>時まで
  50. # [08:55] <@tantek> boblet, try putting the 21:00 inside a <span class="value">
  51. # [08:55] <@tantek> e.g.
  52. # [08:55] <@tantek> <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span>
  53. # [08:57] <boblet> yep, that fixes it, but the vcp wiki page mentions this
  54. # [08:57] <boblet> I see on closer reading it’s a “hCalendar processors could…”
  55. # [08:58] <boblet> so I guess Operator hasn’t implemented that part
  56. # [08:58] <@tantek> boblet, likely because the test case checks the code as I wrote it
  57. # [08:58] <boblet> heh, there’s always another test case to write :)
  58. # [08:59] <@tantek> because <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> uses the vcp explicitly
  59. # [08:59] <boblet> tantek: I don’t envy you in that job
  60. # [08:59] <boblet> cool—I’ll use the verbose way
  61. # [08:59] <@tantek> whereas <span class="dtend">21:00</span> does not use vcp, and will have to await hCalendar 1.1
  62. # [09:00] <@tantek> supporting just <span class="dtend"><span class="value">21:00</span></span> to begin with was the more conservative path to take
  63. # [09:00] <boblet> so hCalendar + vpc is kind of an addition to hCalendar 1.0?
  64. # [09:00] <@tantek> well there are two additions
  65. # [09:01] <boblet> (I assumed a newer version of the spec)
  66. # [09:01] <@tantek> vcp
  67. # [09:01] <@tantek> and the implied dtend date (without requiring vcp)
  68. # [09:02] <boblet> actually given how static uF were for a looong time, I’m pleasantly surprised by the nice changes I’m finding (vpc, inclusive dtend etc)
  69. # [09:03] <boblet> will hCalendar 1.1 be coming soon? or is it waiting on HTML5?
  70. # [09:03] <@tantek> it's not waiting on HTML5
  71. # [09:05] <@tantek> it's mostly the editor (me in this case) going through all the resolved issues and brainstorming bits and incorporating them into a new draft
  72. # [09:06] <boblet> so no <time datetime=""> huh
  73. # [09:08] <boblet> how ill-advised would it be to write something like:
  74. # [09:08] <boblet> <time class="dtstart" datetime="2010-02-17T19:00:00+0900"><abbr class="value" title="2010-02-17">2010年2月17日</abbr>、<abbr class="value" title="19:00:00+0900">19時</abbr></time>
  75. # [09:09] <boblet> Operator parses this correctly, ignoring datetime but picking up values
  76. # [09:09] <boblet> but I wonder if it’d be bad once <time> is officially supported
  77. # [09:14] <@tantek> it's fine for FF since it parses the <time> element
  78. # [09:14] <@tantek> but not for all browsers
  79. # [09:14] <@tantek> e.g. not sure if Safari parses the <time> element
  80. # [09:14] <@tantek> and certainly not sure if hCalendar consuming tools parse the <time> element
  81. # [09:14] <@tantek> for example, H2VX does not, because it uses Tidy, and Tidy strips out the <time> element
  82. # [09:15] <@tantek> the safer, more "bulletproof" method would be to put a <span class="dtstart"> immediately inside the <time> element.
  83. # [09:25] <boblet> tantek: thanks for giving me some things to think about. I’m gonna experiment a little
  84. # [09:26] <@tantek> I'm writing up the detail re dtend implied into hCalendar brainstorming so it doesn't get lost.
  85. # [09:27] <boblet> one final q—the conversation that led to XFN was at SxSW 2003, right? it was first mentioned on your blog Nov 2003
  86. # [09:28] <@tantek> yes
  87. # [09:28] <@tantek> more on that here
  88. # [09:28] <boblet> (doing a uF and Microdata talk, and wanting to include a little history overview)
  89. # [09:28] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/history
  90. # [09:29] <boblet> doh—how did I miss that
  91. # [09:32] <@tantek> also, captured now in hCalendar brainstorming
  92. # [09:32] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcalendar-brainstorming#implied_dtend
  93. # [09:33] <boblet> nice :)
  94. # [09:37] * Joins: teleject (~christoph@cpe-66-69-217-191.austin.res.rr.com)
  95. # [09:37] <@tantek> hello teleject
  96. # [09:38] <teleject> Hey
  97. # [09:38] <@tantek> greetings teleject
  98. # [09:38] <teleject> Hi, Tantek!
  99. # [09:39] <teleject> I was wondering if you could help me with a question on microformats.
  100. # [09:39] <teleject> I want to add business hours to an hcard.
  101. # [09:39] <teleject> And would like to know what would be a recommended direction for coding it.
  102. # [09:39] <teleject> business hours would include M-F
  103. # [09:39] <teleject> as well as weekends
  104. # [09:39] <teleject> and maybe include holidays
  105. # [09:39] <@tantek> this is a very good question
  106. # [09:40] <@tantek> obviously the business itself should be marked up as an hCard
  107. # [09:40] <teleject> (Holidays might be easier to add since they are specific.)
  108. # [09:40] <teleject> Right.
  109. # [09:40] <@tantek> so you *could* mark up the business hours as hCalendar events
  110. # [09:40] <@tantek> it's the best we have at the moment
  111. # [09:40] <teleject> Ah
  112. # [09:40] <teleject> I'm going to throw this potential grenade out there
  113. # [09:40] <@tantek> as in the "event" would be "open for business" or "open" or "serving customers" etc.
  114. # [09:41] <@tantek> and the hours would simply be a repeating event
  115. # [09:41] <teleject> Would the HTML5 element be something to look into?
  116. # [09:41] <@tantek> and the location would be the hCard
  117. # [09:41] <@tantek> looks like your HTML got trimmed
  118. # [09:41] <@tantek> I saw "Would the HTML5 element"
  119. # [09:41] <@tantek> try using [] instead
  120. # [09:41] <teleject> HTML5 time element
  121. # [09:41] <@tantek> e.g. [time]
  122. # [09:41] <@tantek> heh
  123. # [09:41] <@tantek> yes
  124. # [09:42] <@tantek> we were just discussing that earlier
  125. # [09:42] <teleject> really?
  126. # [09:42] <@tantek> the challenge is that today's browser, user agents, search engines don't support [time] very well
  127. # [09:42] <teleject> Right.
  128. # [09:42] <@tantek> yes - here are the handy logs: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212
  129. # [09:43] <@tantek> teleject, check out the log starting here: http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats/20100212#l-73
  130. # [09:44] <teleject> I will....
  131. # [09:44] <@tantek> cool
  132. # [09:44] <@tantek> off to bed for me
  133. # [09:44] <teleject> I have a general question
  134. # [09:45] <teleject> okay...
  135. # [09:45] <teleject> I will look this over
  136. # [09:45] <teleject> if anything, I will probably go with mixing microformats
  137. # [09:45] <teleject> Have a good night!
  138. # [09:45] <@tantek> yes - compound microformats work well!
  139. # [09:46] <teleject> thanks for your time as always!
  140. # [09:47] * Quits: besbes (~besbes@188-23-189-199.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Quit: besbes)
  141. # [09:48] * Parts: teleject (~christoph@cpe-66-69-217-191.austin.res.rr.com)
  142. # [09:50] <boblet> I’m off too. Thanks again for your help Tantek. I’ll ping you with the preso next week (although it’ll be in Japanese :/)
  143. # [09:50] <boblet> l8r
  144. # [09:50] <@tantek> boblet - a Japanese preso on microformats sounds cool!
  145. # [09:51] <@tantek> be sure to add it to http://microformats.org/wiki/presentations
  146. # [09:51] <@tantek> and list your talk on the events page too: http://microformats.org/wiki/events
  147. # [09:51] <boblet> uF is fine, I’ve used them enough. It’s the Microdata part that worries me
  148. # [09:51] <boblet> well, that and the Japanese part :D
  149. # [09:52] <boblet> will add links to the event, & slides when I have some
  150. # [09:53] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  151. # [10:06] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@unaffiliated/danbri)
  152. # [10:19] * Joins: besbes (~besbes@62-99-212-122.rasumofskygasse2.xdsl-line.inode.at)
  153. # [10:55] * Joins: csarven (~csarven@ip5451caad.direct-adsl.nl)
  154. # [10:56] * Joins: emrojo (~emrojo@2001:720:410:100f:212:3fff:fe22:bbaf)
  155. # [10:57] * Quits: emrojo (~emrojo@2001:720:410:100f:212:3fff:fe22:bbaf) (Client Quit)
  156. # [10:57] * Joins: emrojo (~emrojo@163.117.139.232)
  157. # [10:59] * Joins: besbes_ (~besbes@62-99-212-122.rasumofskygasse2.xdsl-line.inode.at)
  158. # [11:02] * Quits: besbes (~besbes@62-99-212-122.rasumofskygasse2.xdsl-line.inode.at) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  159. # [11:02] * besbes_ is now known as besbes
  160. # [11:05] * Joins: Phae (~phaeness@gateb.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  161. # [11:05] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Phae
  162. # [12:31] * Quits: besbes (~besbes@62-99-212-122.rasumofskygasse2.xdsl-line.inode.at) (Quit: besbes)
  163. # [12:43] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@unaffiliated/danbri) (Remote host closed the connection)
  164. # [13:03] * Joins: danbri (~danbri@unaffiliated/danbri)
  165. # [13:04] * Joins: besbes (~besbes@mercury.mminf.univie.ac.at)
  166. # [13:58] * Quits: abernier (~abernier@nor75-28-88-183-29-231.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: abernier)
  167. # [14:21] * Quits: danbri (~danbri@unaffiliated/danbri) (Quit: Leaving...)
  168. # [14:22] * Quits: shigeta (~shigeta@sakkgw2.sixapart.jp) (Quit: Leaving...)
  169. # [15:52] * Joins: mkaply (~chatzilla@cpe-66-68-157-58.austin.res.rr.com)
  170. # [16:18] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  171. # [16:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  172. # [16:24] * Quits: Danny_B (~Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  173. # [16:36] * Joins: mwunsch (~mwunsch@38.105.146.82)
  174. # [16:37] * Joins: Danny_B (~Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.)
  175. # [16:40] * Quits: Danny_B (~Danny_B@wikimedia/Danny-B.) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  176. # [16:48] * Joins: trovster (~trovster@cpc3-staf1-0-0-cust950.sol2.cable.ntl.com)
  177. # [17:09] * Joins: abernier (~abernier@nor75-28-88-183-29-231.fbx.proxad.net)
  178. # [17:19] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@c-67-188-0-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: dglazkov)
  179. # [17:38] * Quits: boblet (~boblet@p1072-ipbf36osakakita.osaka.ocn.ne.jp) (Quit: thxbye)
  180. # [17:41] <mwunsch> Dates and Times are hard :-\
  181. # [17:44] * Quits: besbes (~besbes@mercury.mminf.univie.ac.at) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  182. # [17:51] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-qjjfiybgqqzbheth)
  183. # [17:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  184. # [17:57] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-qjjfiybgqqzbheth) (Quit: dglazkov)
  185. # [17:58] * Quits: @Phae (~phaeness@gateb.mh.bbc.co.uk)
  186. # [18:07] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  187. # [18:07] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  188. # [18:12] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  189. # [18:26] * Quits: abernier (~abernier@nor75-28-88-183-29-231.fbx.proxad.net) (Quit: abernier)
  190. # [18:41] * Quits: csarven (~csarven@ip5451caad.direct-adsl.nl) (Quit: Leaving.)
  191. # [19:02] * Quits: trovster (~trovster@cpc3-staf1-0-0-cust950.sol2.cable.ntl.com) (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
  192. # [19:05] * Quits: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@c-67-164-13-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: The computer fell asleep)
  193. # [19:29] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  194. # [19:29] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  195. # [20:27] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@2620:0:1000:1b01:21f:f3ff:fed0:dd49)
  196. # [20:27] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  197. # [20:28] * Quits: emrojo (~emrojo@163.117.139.232) (Quit: Leaving.)
  198. # [20:39] * Joins: KevinMarks (~KevinMark@157.22.22.46)
  199. # [21:18] * Joins: besbes (~besbes@91-115-27-218.adsl.highway.telekom.at)
  200. # [21:32] * Joins: dglazkov_ (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-basddufsoubdvkuh)
  201. # [21:32] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov_
  202. # [21:34] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@2620:0:1000:1b01:21f:f3ff:fed0:dd49) (Read error: Operation timed out)
  203. # [21:34] * dglazkov_ is now known as dglazkov
  204. # [21:50] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@70-36-139-7.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
  205. # [21:53] * Quits: @dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-basddufsoubdvkuh) (Remote host closed the connection)
  206. # [21:53] * Joins: dglazkov (~dglazkov@nat/google/x-dcdutdharawnoxxg)
  207. # [21:53] * ChanServ sets mode: +o dglazkov
  208. # [22:43] * Joins: Phae (~phaeness@cpc2-acto9-0-0-cust364.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  209. # [23:39] * Quits: Phae (~phaeness@cpc2-acto9-0-0-cust364.brnt.cable.ntl.com)
  210. # [23:39] * Quits: besbes (~besbes@91-115-27-218.adsl.highway.telekom.at) (Quit: besbes)
  211. # [23:43] * Joins: lhnz (~lhnz@82.148.50.18)
  212. # [23:44] * Joins: BobJonkman (~BobJonkma@206-248-137-186.dsl.teksavvy.com)
  213. # [23:53] * Joins: abernier (~abernier@nor75-28-88-183-29-231.fbx.proxad.net)
  214. # Session Close: Sat Feb 13 00:00:00 2010

The end :)