/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2012-05-30 / end

Options:

  1. # Session Start: Wed May 30 00:00:00 2012
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:14] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-oggxmvhpwptbpzwf)
  4. # [00:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  5. # [02:14] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/Kurdishswagg97 :: @Dahas615 @ahmad_615 nigggggga I'll cut you!! Ava es hatom mala te.....Lmao I think I spelt all of that wronf
  6. # [02:25] <@tantek> !block Kurdishswagg97
  7. # [02:25] <Loqi> Got it! There are now 57 spammers blacklisted
  8. # [02:40] * Quits: delphianQ (475f1922@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.95.25.34) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  9. # [02:41] <Loqi> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=46453&oldid=46414&rcid=60293 * Tantek * (+468) /* examples by category */ add Event Speakers section and Fluent 2012
  10. # [02:42] <Loqi> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=46454&oldid=46453&rcid=60294 * Tantek * (+64) /* related pages */ hCalendar examples in the wild related
  11. # [02:45] <Loqi> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=46455&oldid=46234&rcid=60295 * Tantek * (+221) conference sessions e.g. fluent conference, rm refs to old Technorati service
  12. # [02:48] <Loqi> [[hcalendar-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcalendar-examples-in-wild&diff=46456&oldid=46455&rcid=60296 * Tantek * (+56) /* related pages */ hCard examples in the wild
  13. # [02:50] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/microformats :: #FluentConf supports hCard & hCalendar #microformats on session pages, e.g. http://t.co/f3B7A7Xi Well done @oreillymedia!
  14. # [03:07] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/t :: progress: Twitter permalinks drop hashbangs #!, now serve content w/o JS: http://t.co/lUeao5Cl Perhaps add hAtom too? (ttk.me t4J94)
  15. # [03:09] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@nat/mozilla/x-oggxmvhpwptbpzwf) (Quit: tantek)
  16. # [04:23] * Quits: nonge (~nonge@p5B326763.dip.t-dialin.net) (Quit: Verlassend)
  17. # [06:47] * Quits: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34) (Remote host closed the connection)
  18. # [06:47] * Joins: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34)
  19. # [07:30] * Quits: WarAngel (~rasifiel@95.78.240.207) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  20. # [07:34] <Loqi> [[SlaterCumming738]] NM http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=SlaterCumming738&rcid=60297 * SlaterCumming738 * (+476) New page: This shoe runs narrow, so in case you are a minimalist runner buy it in EE. New Stability nearly has it suitable, this shoe could use a bit more safety under the forefoot, not the ideal s...
  21. # [07:34] <Loqi> [[User:SlaterCumming738]] NM http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:SlaterCumming738&rcid=60298 * SlaterCumming738 * (+476) New page: This shoe runs narrow, so in case you are a minimalist runner buy it in EE. New Stability nearly has it suitable, this shoe could use a bit more safety under the forefoot, not the ideal s...
  22. # [07:49] * Quits: jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  23. # [07:49] * Joins: jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner)
  24. # [08:03] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/mahakaryadunia :: Adum nad hatom @unklodie @LabAshWarTeam
  25. # [08:11] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.42.235.3) (Remote host closed the connection)
  26. # [08:14] * Joins: patcito (~123@190.42.235.3)
  27. # [08:39] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/StepUpWeb :: hCard Как использовать для сайта? Советы http://t.co/b3EQ1GsS
  28. # [09:28] * Joins: tantek (~tantek@50-0-92-247.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net)
  29. # [09:28] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
  30. # [09:41] * Joins: WarAngel (~rasifiel@95.78.240.207)
  31. # [09:42] * Joins: voxpelli (~anonymous@mmx.flattr.net)
  32. # [10:01] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/seolobster :: #Google seems have to have stopped #RichSnippet Support für #hcalendar - way to many using the 3 xtra links for "other purposes"? ;)
  33. # [10:09] * Quits: patcito (~123@190.42.235.3) (Remote host closed the connection)
  34. # [11:02] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Tantek * blocked [[User:SlaterCumming738]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
  35. # [11:02] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Tantek * deleted "[[SlaterCumming738]]": content was spam
  36. # [11:03] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Tantek * deleted "[[User:SlaterCumming738]]": content was spam
  37. # [12:02] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  38. # [12:02] * ChanServ sets mode: +o adactio
  39. # [12:02] * Quits: @adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Client Quit)
  40. # [12:03] * Joins: adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
  41. # [12:03] * ChanServ sets mode: +o adactio
  42. # [13:08] * Joins: chiui_ (~chiui@77.72.196.170)
  43. # [13:45] * Quits: WarAngel (~rasifiel@95.78.240.207) (Remote host closed the connection)
  44. # [13:46] * Joins: WarAngel (~rasifiel@95.78.240.207)
  45. # [13:50] <Loqi> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=46459&oldid=46454&rcid=60302 * Justinbutcher * (-16068)
  46. # [13:52] <Loqi> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=46460&oldid=46459&rcid=60303 * Justinbutcher * (+527)
  47. # [13:53] <Loqi> [[hcard-examples-in-wild]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-examples-in-wild&diff=46461&oldid=46460&rcid=60304 * Justinbutcher * (-312)
  48. # [15:29] * Joins: nonge (~nonge@p5B326D0C.dip.t-dialin.net)
  49. # [15:32] * Quits: chiui_ (~chiui@77.72.196.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  50. # [15:33] * Joins: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170)
  51. # [15:37] * Joins: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  52. # [15:47] * Quits: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  53. # [16:11] * Joins: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl5-132-156.dsl.telepac.pt)
  54. # [16:22] * Joins: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170)
  55. # [16:40] <Jonadabe> Hi there. I'm new here, but I would like to ask: has schema.org anything to do with microformats.org?
  56. # [16:42] <@tantek> Jonadabe at the schema.org workshop last year, myself and others ask the schema.org folks to please re-use successful microformats, and the response we got was that they were more interested in essentially making up their own vocabularies.
  57. # [16:44] <@tantek> microformats.org is a community for developing real-world-research based vocabularies launched 2005-06-20 (going strong almost 7 years now)
  58. # [16:45] <@tantek> schema.org was launched as essentially a Google side-project where they got Microsoft to agree to put their name (and some support) on it, and thus Yahoo by proxy.
  59. # [16:45] <@tantek> there's no community there, just a few big companies essentially acting as an oligopoly
  60. # [17:00] <Jonadabe> hum... I see...
  61. # [17:01] <Jonadabe> where can I find something like this http://schema.org/docs/full.html at mircoformats.org ?
  62. # [17:01] * Joins: JohnBeales (~johnbeale@dsl-67-230-156-233.tor.primus.ca)
  63. # [17:04] <@tantek> jonadabe - that's a good question. what do you find useful about that "full.html" page?
  64. # [17:05] <Jonadabe> The entire colection about what can be used... in my case maybe Store, Product, etc.
  65. # [17:11] <@tantek> so for microformats, the list of root class names (vcard, vevent, hfeed, hetnry, hreview, hproduct, hrecipe) and various properties (fn, url, photo, …) ?
  66. # [17:12] <Jonadabe> yes... why are they called v-something or h-something?
  67. # [17:17] <Jonadabe> Are this microformats recognized by the search engines (like google, yahoo and maybe other)?
  68. # [17:18] <@tantek> yes - microformats have been recognized by search engines for far longer than any schema.
  69. # [17:18] <Jonadabe> And what should be the DOCTYPE to use microformats?
  70. # [17:19] <@tantek> jonadabe - microformats work with any DOCTYPE
  71. # [17:19] <@tantek> re: search engine support: http://microformats.org/wiki/search-engines
  72. # [17:20] <@tantek> re: why h-something: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#Q._What_is_the_.27h.27_for.2C_in_front_of_Calendar_and_Card.3F
  73. # [17:28] <Jonadabe> hum... you know, the microformats.org site I saw it back some years ago... and must admit that its a bit confusing to me... It seems that you did a great job and all the other contributors, but I think honestly all the site should be remodeled thinking on someone who knows nothing about it. Sometimes the problem is having to mutch information at once... that is my humble opinion. ;-)
  74. # [17:29] <@tantek> that's a very good point
  75. # [17:29] <@tantek> make it even simpler
  76. # [17:30] <@tantek> so in light of your comment about "having to much information at once" - how does the "full.html
  77. # [17:30] <@tantek> "
  78. # [17:30] <@tantek> page you linked to avoid that problem?
  79. # [17:31] <@tantek> and btw - yes, we have been working on simplifying the specs and the formats themselves - I'd be interested in your opinion of the hCard spec, at least the top first few parts of it, as that's been one of our leading simplification efforts: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
  80. # [17:38] <Jonadabe> tantek: don't see me wrong (all that information is very good and usefull. That's not the point here!), but honestly what is more reable this http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard or this http://schema.org/Person (I have nothing to do with schema.org I stumbled into the site 1 or 2 ours ago!)
  81. # [17:43] <Jonadabe> *readable instead of reable
  82. # [17:43] <Jonadabe> *hours instead of ours ;-)
  83. # [17:45] <@tantek> so here's a couple of points to consider in terms of readability (because I do think we've done a better job with the start of hCard than the schema/Person page
  84. # [17:46] <@tantek> what does "Expected Type" mean to the average web author person? do they care?
  85. # [17:46] <@tantek> what makes something new easier to understand, a short example (right there at the top of http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard ) or a giant abstract table?
  86. # [17:47] <@tantek> and if you're comparing tables, which of these is easier to understand the schema/Person table, or the hCard properties summary list: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Properties ?
  87. # [17:47] <@tantek> make that three (not "a couple of") points ;)
  88. # [17:48] <@tantek> I'm honestly trying to understand why you would ask if the schema/person page is more readable
  89. # [17:49] <@tantek> (and btw - if anyone else on the channel has opinions on this, suggestions for improvement, please chime in!)
  90. # [17:53] <aaronpk> I really like the hcard page! Here is how I read it:
  91. # [17:54] <aaronpk> header: hCard 1.0. then I see a long line of text that I don't read, and my eyes skip down to the example. at this point I understand it can be used to represent people and organizations.
  92. # [17:54] <aaronpk> then I look at the table, which is very easy to read since the properties are bold, and the examples to the right are perfect since I immediately see how they are used in real life
  93. # [17:55] <aaronpk> then I keep scrolling down past all the text, and past the long list of properties which doesn't make sense with no context next to it
  94. # [17:56] <aaronpk> eventually i see more code samples, but I am less clear on the purpose of them. at this point, I am happy to understand the basics of what the hcard is for, and I will visit the page later as a reference when I go and use it
  95. # [17:57] <aaronpk> there you go, a live usability narrative of that page :)
  96. # [17:58] <@tantek> aaronpk - thanks - the latter parts, i.e. everything http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Background and later, has yet to be redesigned/rewritten.
  97. # [17:59] <@tantek> I'm currently redesigning/rewriting the "Status" section: http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard#Status - making my way through the spec one section at a time.
  98. # [18:03] * Joins: micha-- (~mbelow@88.130.178.216)
  99. # [18:03] <micha--> hi, i want to add microformats to my contact details on my homepage
  100. # [18:04] <micha--> right now it is a block like <address> john doe<br> some street <br> some town </address>
  101. # [18:05] <micha--> how do i do this best? should i but a vcard <span> inside the address block?
  102. # [18:05] <micha--> somehow this doesn't feel right
  103. # [18:05] <@tantek> micha - do you want to only have an address? or a name, URL, email, telephone etc.?
  104. # [18:05] <micha--> everything
  105. # [18:05] <micha--> but it is spread over the page
  106. # [18:06] <@tantek> then you want to use an hCard - http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard
  107. # [18:06] <micha--> there is a list of contact options
  108. # [18:06] <@tantek> you can make the whole page one hCard
  109. # [18:06] <@tantek> and then markup the properties wherever they occur
  110. # [18:07] <micha--> so i make the whole page a <span class="vcard">?
  111. # [18:10] <@tantek> micha - you can put the class="vcard" on the <body>
  112. # [18:10] <@tantek> no need to add another span
  113. # [18:20] * Quits: voxpelli (~anonymous@mmx.flattr.net) (Quit: voxpelli)
  114. # [18:23] <micha--> is there a way to say that this is my homepage?
  115. # [18:23] <micha--> i want to put the vcard onto my website
  116. # [18:23] <micha--> and i think it would be strange to put there a link to itself
  117. # [18:31] <@tantek> yes - putting it on your home page makes a lot of sense
  118. # [18:37] <@tantek> micha - take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring for getting started with hCard authoring
  119. # [18:47] * Joins: kadactivity (~anarkad@206.245.102.84.rev.sfr.net)
  120. # [18:49] * Parts: kadactivity (~anarkad@206.245.102.84.rev.sfr.net)
  121. # [18:49] <micha--> that helps, thanks
  122. # [18:50] * Jonadabe says thanks to everyone especialy to tantek and parts...
  123. # [18:50] * Parts: Jonadabe (~Jonadabe@bl5-132-156.dsl.telepac.pt)
  124. # [18:54] <micha--> is there a way to have "hidden" input for the vcard?
  125. # [18:54] <micha--> i have one fax number and one office number
  126. # [18:54] <micha--> but i don't want to write "work" onto the contact page
  127. # [18:54] <@tantek> micha - "work" is part of the default type so you don't have to write it
  128. # [18:55] <micha--> so i define one as type fax and the other without a type?
  129. # [18:55] * Quits: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34) (Quit: Lost terminal)
  130. # [18:59] <@tantek> micha - right
  131. # [19:05] <micha--> is there some kind of hcard validator?
  132. # [19:05] <micha--> i am trying this with bing webmaster tools and it doesn't look quite right
  133. # [19:07] <@tantek> micha - yes, there are a few validators. see: http://microformats.org/wiki/validators
  134. # [19:08] <@tantek> what problems are you seeing with bing webmaster tools?
  135. # [19:08] <micha--> i have defined my pgp key as class "key", but it's not there
  136. # [19:09] <micha--> and for tel and url it seems to use the "pretty" human readable version, not the data
  137. # [19:12] * Joins: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34)
  138. # [19:38] * Joins: patcito (~123@201.240.4.24)
  139. # [19:38] <micha--> i am trying to set the tel number like this: <span class="tel"><span class="value"><abbr title="+493097005601">030/97 00 56 01</abbr></span></span>
  140. # [19:38] <micha--> but both google and bing seem to return only the user-visible part
  141. # [19:39] <micha--> any idea how to do it better?
  142. # [19:41] <singpolyma> get rid of the span
  143. # [19:41] <singpolyma> less tags == better
  144. # [19:41] <singpolyma> you could also switch abbr-design-pattern for value-design-pattern, if you wish
  145. # [19:42] <singpolyma> but I think either is supported
  146. # [19:42] * Quits: @adactio (~adactio@host213-123-197-180.in-addr.btopenworld.com) (Quit: adactio)
  147. # [19:42] <singpolyma> for clarity: the class="value" can totally go on the <abbr>
  148. # [19:42] <singpolyma> for example
  149. # [19:42] <micha--> ah, okay
  150. # [19:43] <singpolyma> spans and divs are always a last resort
  151. # [19:48] <micha--> yup, much better :)
  152. # [19:49] * Quits: jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  153. # [19:49] * Joins: jkridner (~jason@pdpc/supporter/active/jkridner)
  154. # [19:51] <micha--> and why doesn't this work? <span class="url" title="http://judiz.de"></span>
  155. # [19:51] <micha--> i don't want to put a link to my homepage onto my homepage, that's redundant
  156. # [19:54] <singpolyma> uh... links must be <a> tags, that's just how HTML is
  157. # [19:54] <singpolyma> you can hide it if you want, but I've never had a problem having links to my homepage on my homepage, or similar
  158. # [19:54] <@tantek> micha - perhaps just an empty link then? <a class="url" title="http://judiz.de"></a> ?
  159. # [19:55] <@tantek> also - Firefox Operator is useful for debugging
  160. # [19:56] <@tantek> or put it on your Start link
  161. # [19:56] <@tantek> in the top left
  162. # [19:57] <Loqi> [[validators]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=validators&diff=46462&oldid=45667&rcid=60305 * Tantek * (+126) /* Mozilla Firefox */ direct link to main operator article
  163. # [19:58] <@tantek> micha check out http://microformats.org/wiki/operator
  164. # [19:59] <@tantek> and <a class="url" href="/">Start</a> (a link you already have on your kontakt page)
  165. # [20:00] <micha--> tantek: thanks, i will try operator...
  166. # [20:02] <micha--> i try to avoid editing the menu part... the menu is generated from templates, so i would need to add an exception to the template (if url = kontakt do...)
  167. # [20:05] <@tantek> or just an extra class there - likely harmless :)
  168. # [20:18] <micha--> how is the "key" supposed to work? i tried it with my pgp key: <a href="http://judiz.de/below11.asc" type="application/pgp-keys" class="key">hier</a>
  169. # [20:18] <micha--> but that isn't recognized
  170. # [20:21] <micha--> or is it a different kind of key?
  171. # [20:21] <@tantek> micha - the support for key is currently experimental at best, both in vCard and hCard on the web. Although in the past year there have been some promising developments. Here is the latest on "key" :
  172. # [20:23] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-brainstorming#key_property_for_webid
  173. # [20:25] * Quits: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
  174. # [20:26] <micha--> oh, okay
  175. # [20:27] <micha--> i was thinking of pgp keys, but this is different
  176. # [20:27] <@tantek> if you've got suggestions, they're certainly welcome
  177. # [20:27] <@tantek> e.g. for how to use the "key" property with a PGP key published on the web
  178. # [20:27] <@tantek> I think it could be very useful
  179. # [20:27] <@tantek> just not sure where to start
  180. # [20:27] <micha--> my idea was to use it with a key url
  181. # [20:28] <micha--> so i have an entry in my vcard that points to the location of my pgp pubkey
  182. # [20:28] <micha--> but this webID-stuff looks far more sophisticated
  183. # [20:28] <@tantek> interesting
  184. # [20:28] <@tantek> so "key" should be of type URL
  185. # [20:29] <@tantek> a-ha, and in vCard4 RFC6350 6.8.1. KEY it is defined as a URI
  186. # [20:30] <@tantek> "To specify a public key or authentication certificate associated with the object that the vCard represents."
  187. # [20:35] * Quits: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
  188. # [20:39] <Loqi> [[microformats-2]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats-2&diff=46463&oldid=45135&rcid=60306 * Tantek * (+27) /* h-card */ note key is a URI
  189. # [20:40] <Loqi> [[microformats-2]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats-2&diff=46464&oldid=46463&rcid=60307 * Tantek * (+39) /* h-card */ compat "key" parse as u-
  190. # [20:44] * Joins: singpolyma (~singpolym@69.171.154.34)
  191. # [20:55] <micha--> wow
  192. # [20:59] * Joins: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170)
  193. # [21:04] * Quits: micha-- (~mbelow@88.130.178.216) (Quit: Ex-Chat)
  194. # [22:34] * Joins: chiui_ (~chiui@77.72.196.170)
  195. # [22:34] * Quits: chiui (~chiui@77.72.196.170) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
  196. # [23:19] * Quits: MacTed (~Thud@63.119.36.36)
  197. # [23:35] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/Work__Freelance :: Freelance HTML Job - transform 10 HTML reviews into hreview microformat http://t.co/bQjQnG3I #freelance #jobs
  198. # [23:36] <@tantek> nice
  199. # [23:43] <Loqi> http://twitter.com/StartWorkNow :: transform 10 HTML reviews into hreview microformat by vandervan: I have a review page with 10 short review... http://t.co/0C7jvuZU #jobs
  200. # [23:46] * Quits: chiui_ (~chiui@77.72.196.170) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
  201. # Session Close: Thu May 31 00:00:00 2012

The end :)