/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2013-05-04 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sat May 04 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:08] * Joins: chiui (~chiui@2001:470:6d:56d:223:8ff:fec2:b2c8)
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  5. # [00:14] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53187&oldid=53186&rcid=73301 * Tantek * (+0) caps
  6. # [00:15] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53188&oldid=53187&rcid=73302 * Tantek * (-10) no longer a stub
  7. # [00:16] <@tantek> Garbee - do you think /wiki/code-tools is good enough to be a redirect replacement for /code-tools ?
  8. # [00:16] <@tantek> (I think it's looking pretty good)
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  11. # [00:28] <Garbee> tantek, Once I copy the other links on the page down. As of right now it is all there yes.
  12. # [00:30] <Garbee> The other links will be good for a part of the wiki showing off sites actually using it. You said there were various -in-the-wild sections around, those could become a single page segmented by the format in use to make a great one-page listing of cool stuff using MicroFormats.
  13. # [00:31] * Garbee just saved a copy of the whole current source. So it is good to be redirected.
  14. # [00:33] <@tantek> Garbee - ok cool
  15. # [00:33] <@tantek> the *-examples-in-wild pages are quite big - not sure how helpful it would be to combine them
  16. # [00:33] <@tantek> there's a reason they're separate pages :)
  17. # [00:33] <Garbee> Ah.
  18. # [00:34] <@tantek> there are LOTS of examples in the wild
  19. # [00:34] <Garbee> Well, is there any page that simply lists out the *-examples-in-wild pages?
  20. # [00:34] <Garbee> http://microformats.org/wiki/examples-in-wild --Yup!
  21. # [00:35] <Garbee> So I just need to check those pages for the ones listed under the Code & Tools source I have, if they aren't in then I'll add them.
  22. # [00:37] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53189&oldid=53188&rcid=73303 * Garbee * (-23) Changed callout at top of page. Created short to-do list with the last item from that as a reminder to get around to.
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  24. # [00:40] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=53190&oldid=52872&rcid=73304 * Tantek * (-2) /* parsing a u- property */ first base element if any only (all but first base element are ignored per HTML5 spec)
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  26. # [00:42] <Loqi> [[User:Garbee]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:Garbee&rcid=73305 * Garbee * (+28) Added public domain release to my profile.
  27. # [00:46] <@tantek> nice - thanks Garbee
  28. # [00:47] <Garbee> Also I think we should do something on Web Platform Docs about Microformatting.
  29. # [00:47] <Garbee> Still mulling around how that should be handled.
  30. # [01:00] <Loqi> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=xfn-implementations&diff=53192&oldid=42080&rcid=73306 * Tantek * (+740) entry-title, auto-toc, note goal to replace gmpg xfn tools, moved old list to bottom, added blo.gs
  31. # [01:06] <Loqi> [[xfn-examples-in-wild]] NM http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=xfn-examples-in-wild&rcid=73307 * Tantek * (+91) r
  32. # [01:17] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/Joohh_Criciuma :: @Luiz_HCard de boas.
  33. # [01:17] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/Joohh_Criciuma :: @Luiz_HCard A @pq_nao falou que a L&amp;V toca entre 15h e 16h no concentra ;D
  34. # [01:17] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/Joohh_Criciuma :: @Luiz_HCard Amanhã tem no concentra hehe
  35. # [01:17] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/henriquemccosta :: @Luiz_HCard o tema podia ser "construa uma narrativa de um jovem que vira bandido" kkk
  36. # [01:23] <@tantek> Garbee - agreed about adding more microformatting info to Web Platform Docs
  37. # [01:25] <Loqi> [[hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists&diff=53194&oldid=46835&rcid=73308 * Tantek * (+791) /* Services with XFN supporting friends lists */ Metafilter since 2004! And checked others, added icons, moved anything offline to an offline section
  38. # [01:30] <Loqi> [[hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists&diff=53195&oldid=53194&rcid=73309 * Tantek * (+241) /* Services with XFN rel="me" to multiple external sites */ WordPress hosting services, e.g. JournalSpace
  39. # [01:36] <Loqi> [[hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-xfn-supporting-friends-lists&diff=53196&oldid=53195&rcid=73310 * Tantek * (+423) fix Journalspace nesting, both friends and me, fix a few more icons
  40. # [01:37] <Loqi> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=xfn-implementations&diff=53197&oldid=53192&rcid=73311 * Tantek * (+244) /* offline */ exefen is offline
  41. # [01:38] <Loqi> [[xfn-implementations]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=xfn-implementations&diff=53198&oldid=53197&rcid=73312 * Tantek * (+108) /* authoring publishing */ Nvu
  42. # [01:39] <@tantek> Garbee - I just went through the remainig non-creator XFN related implementations on the code & tools and moved/copied them to various appropriate places on the wiki
  43. # [01:39] <Garbee> I almost think that doing Microformat stuff in WPD could go beyond just MF. To in fact go towards talking completely about structured data in the front-end web space.
  44. # [01:40] <@tantek> they were a bit more non-obvious to handle (as in where they should go) so I figured I'd jump in and take care of them
  45. # [01:40] <Garbee> Ah ok, thanks!
  46. # [01:40] <@tantek> Garbee - there's multiple ways to look at how to do structured data documentation
  47. # [01:40] <@tantek> do you want to provide what's the least work to be the most useful
  48. # [01:40] <@tantek> or do you want to attempt to provide a comprehensive overview that might possibly overwhelm web devs and scare them into doing nothing
  49. # [01:41] <Garbee> Well, it needs to be able to become comprehensive.
  50. # [01:41] <@tantek> I'd say start small and useful (kind of a microformats principle :) ) rather than attempting to be comprehensive / politically correct
  51. # [01:41] <Garbee> At first though, *I* would only really focusing on documenting MF.
  52. # [01:41] <@tantek> in the long run, comprehensive is not useful
  53. # [01:41] <@tantek> I mean, does WPD cover XML Schema?
  54. # [01:41] <Garbee> But, I'd start with a new section where the top page tries to explain there are many ways of doing it.
  55. # [01:42] <Garbee> It may, let me see if a search comes up with anything...
  56. # [01:42] <@tantek> lol
  57. # [01:42] <@tantek> or RDF Schema?
  58. # [01:42] <@tantek> or XLink?
  59. # [01:42] <Garbee> WPD was formed with loads of imported content from many places, still a mess...
  60. # [01:43] <Garbee> The point of WPD though is to be a comprehensive resource.
  61. # [01:43] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53199&oldid=53189&rcid=73313 * Tantek * (+34) entry-title, fix heading level
  62. # [01:43] <Garbee> We can't just exclude things because we see them as more work for no/little gain.
  63. # [01:43] <@tantek> Garbee - does comprehensive include historical specs which have fallen out of use on the web platform?
  64. # [01:43] <@tantek> (if they were ever)
  65. # [01:44] <Garbee> What we can do though is try to urge people towards a certain thing, which would be the simplest method to achieve the desired result (in this case MF would win imo.)
  66. # [01:44] <@tantek> yeah that makes sense
  67. # [01:44] <@tantek> and it's not a matter of deliberate exclusion, it's a matter of deprioritizing the more work / little (if any incremental) gain things
  68. # [01:44] <Garbee> Historical stuff can be included if people really want to doc it. But unless someone feels like doing that level of detail, who cares (really, if no one wants to doc it, who cares.)
  69. # [01:45] <@tantek> if someone wants spend the volunteer time on them, that's up to them
  70. # [01:45] <Garbee> I mean, if someone *wanted* they can doc HTML1 for all we care.
  71. # [01:45] <@tantek> yeah - I think we're on the same page
  72. # [01:45] <Garbee> I'm just going to try and build a new section of content, Structured Data.
  73. # [01:45] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53200&oldid=53199&rcid=73314 * Tantek * (+1) ws
  74. # [01:45] <Garbee> From there *I* will try to help document MF.
  75. # [01:46] <Garbee> If others want to come in and document Schema.org/MicroData, that is up to them and it will be open for them to do so.
  76. # [01:47] <Garbee> We just need to have a bit of tact to make sure it isn't being shown that MF is the *only* way of doing it, since there are clearly alternatives that are in use.
  77. # [01:47] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53201&oldid=53200&rcid=73315 * Tantek * (-57) replace to-do (which is done enough) with See Also to give people more places to dig deep if they want
  78. # [01:47] <@tantek> Garbee - that sounds reasonable
  79. # [01:48] <Garbee> I'll mull around in my head for a while on the structure of that new section. Then begin a discussion in WPD on it to get input from others there.
  80. # [01:48] <@tantek> might even make sense to show comparative examples (which would end up clearly demonstrating how much less work it is to do structured data with microformats than with microdata/schema or rdfa)
  81. # [01:48] <Garbee> Examples would be in a "What is Structured Data?" article. ;)
  82. # [01:48] <Garbee> Show a few formats up front that are widely used today.
  83. # [01:49] <Garbee> Then since at first I personally am only looking into MF, we would have docs for it available.
  84. # [01:49] <@tantek> would you include something "open" but vendor specific like Facebook's OGP (OpenGraphProtocol) ?
  85. # [01:49] <@tantek> I mean, among alternatives
  86. # [01:50] <@tantek> or purely proprietary like Twitter Cards?
  87. # [01:50] <Garbee> Yea, Facebook's OGP would be something we would need to discuss with the WPD community.
  88. # [01:50] <Garbee> Twitter Card's I'm pretty sure we wouldn't do.
  89. # [01:50] <@tantek> cool. just asking to see where the lines would get drawn
  90. # [01:50] <Garbee> But, once again something to discuss with the WPD community on what is acceptable.
  91. # [01:50] <@tantek> I made a few minor heading related tweaks to the /wiki/code-tools page - take a look
  92. # [01:50] <@tantek> I think it's good to go
  93. # [01:50] <Garbee> tbh, I'm willing to just "see where it goes."
  94. # [01:50] <@tantek> a good community strategy :)
  95. # [01:51] <Garbee> Yup.
  96. # [01:51] <Garbee> Honestly though, I personally think that *purely* proprietary things should be documented by their maintainer, so out of WPD's scope.
  97. # [01:51] <@tantek> yeah
  98. # [01:52] <Garbee> code-tools looks good to me!
  99. # [01:56] <@tantek> ok I did a quick WP content edit with a meta refresh to the wiki page - good enough for now
  100. # [01:56] <Garbee> Also on the note of WPD, I by no means "decide" what we do. I do think though that anyone should be able to document anything dealing within the scope of WPD as long as it conforms to our architecture of docs. There are things like SQL and PHP that we don't document. Yes they are heavily used and one is even *a* standard, but it isn't a W3C standard nor is it being worked towards that goal. So it is irrelevant to our docs in most cases.
  101. # [01:56] <@tantek> we can just update the top level pages like that one at a time until we're done with them all and then we can do a server-wide htaccess config to go directly to the wiki pages
  102. # [01:56] <Garbee> People can do whatever docs they want as far as I am concerned, even outdated stuff (which we would make well known it is out of date somehow.)
  103. # [01:57] <Garbee> ^^as long as it is within scope.
  104. # [01:57] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/code-tools
  105. # [01:58] <Garbee> I'll work on the "Get Started" page in a day or two and convert that into a wiki page.
  106. # [01:58] <Loqi> [[code-tools]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=code-tools&diff=53202&oldid=53201&rcid=73316 * Tantek * (+20) see also uf2
  107. # [01:58] <@tantek> Garbee - there's already quite a bit on the wiki for getting started
  108. # [01:58] <@tantek> you may want to take a look at those wiki pages
  109. # [01:58] <Garbee> So perhaps we should find one of those to link over to then.
  110. # [01:58] <@tantek> and evaluate what (if anything) would need fixing/updating before redirecting over to them
  111. # [01:58] <@tantek> yea
  112. # [01:59] <Garbee> ah, http://microformats.org/wiki/get-started
  113. # [01:59] <@tantek> exactly
  114. # [01:59] <@tantek> :)
  115. # [01:59] <Garbee> I'll evaluate that tomorrow. By that I really mean add a few code examples so people start to get a feel for the markup.
  116. # [01:59] <Garbee> btw, when doing that, should I do things to MF1 or MF2 format?
  117. # [02:01] <@tantek> that is the subject of an ongoing FAQ: http://microformats.org/wiki/faq#When_should_I_use_microformats2_over_microformats1
  118. # [02:01] <@tantek> (right at the top of the FAQ since it's kind of a hot topic)
  119. # [02:02] <@tantek> and clearly we need to update a bunch of the getting started and other *-authoring pages accordingly
  120. # [02:02] <Garbee> Yea, I saw that earlier today.
  121. # [02:02] <Garbee> Since this is just a starter page I'm pretty sure we should go with MF2.
  122. # [02:02] <@tantek> ok
  123. # [02:02] <Garbee> (That also may help get people using it so search engines and other bots update their parsers.)
  124. # [02:03] <@tantek> makes sense
  125. # [02:03] <@tantek> less work, simpler = better
  126. # [02:03] <@tantek> especially for getting started
  127. # [02:03] <Garbee> But, we should make note of this FAQ answer for people, since it will certainly be something they ask.
  128. # [02:03] <@tantek> right
  129. # [02:03] <Garbee> hehe, "make not of", let's just make sure we link to the FAQ...
  130. # [02:03] <Garbee> note*
  131. # [02:04] <Garbee> So, I'll go over that wiki page in a day or two and fix it up some. Then ask in here for a review before any redirects are done.
  132. # [02:09] <@tantek> sounds like a plan!
  133. # [02:10] <Loqi> [[User:diaxuetifaf]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:diaxuetifaf&rcid=73317 * Diaxuetifaf * (+5045) Easy and Quick Weight Loss Tips to Try
  134. # [02:10] <Loqi> [[User:dunxmenfef]] N http://www.microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:dunxmenfef&rcid=73318 * Dunxmenfef * (+3573) Inground Pool Liners - How To Choose The Right One
  135. # [02:13] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Tantek * blocked [[User:Diaxuetifaf]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
  136. # [02:13] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Tantek * deleted "[[User:diaxuetifaf]]": content was spam
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  138. # [02:58] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Tantek * blocked [[User:Dunxmenfef]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
  139. # [02:58] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Tantek * deleted "[[User:dunxmenfef]]": content was spam
  140. # [03:02] <Loqi> [[Does Your Plumbing Enterprise have an Interesting Social Media Presence?]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Does_Your_Plumbing_Enterprise_have_an_Interesting_Social_Media_Presence%3F&rcid=73323 * Sanbsq7tba * (+4012) New page: Working in a business corresponding to plumbing, you may discover that the advertising and marketing techniques which are used for the plumbers you c
  141. # [03:03] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * Tantek * blocked [[User:Sanbsq7tba]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
  142. # [03:03] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * Tantek * deleted "[[Does Your Plumbing Enterprise have an Interesting Social Media Presence?]]": content was spam
  143. # [03:04] <@tantek> Garbee - also - I'd appreciate your opinion of my microformat2 & HTML5 talk that I recently gave, especially from the perspective of, what in the talk should be turned into documentation that can be read/searched/discovered/explored: http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api (33 minutes)
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  159. # [09:24] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/MalcolmChilds :: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web
  160. # [09:24] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/WayneTCortez :: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web
  161. # [09:24] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/aidanjturner :: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web
  162. # [09:24] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/SESmediatest :: RT @aidanjturner One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web https://twitter.com/aidanjturner/statuses/330583327536975874
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  164. # [09:53] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/NeoSting :: RT @html5_addict: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp;amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web (via @WayneTCortez)
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  166. # [09:57] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/vanessaalmonte3 :: RT @t: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp; #HTML5 @HTML5DevConf. 33 minute video http://www.youtube.com/ #microformats #API (ttk.me…
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  169. # [11:30] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/jefrihalomoan1 :: @intanfabes ntar nyampe lippo jangan lama yah kak..gue mau pinjem Hcard lu :)
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  178. # [12:35] <Loqi> https://twitter.com/CaliforniaVol :: RT @html5_addict: One month ago: spoke on #microformats2 &amp;amp; #HTML5 ... - Tantek http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=http://tantek.com/2013/122/t1/microformats2-html5-html5devconf-video-api&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAEoATAAOABAsu6SjAVIAlgAYgVlbi1VUw&cd=TirC6iiPryU&usg=AFQjCNEkKEbI_Y2WDiL7MkkVSJNwdcWxTQ&utm_source=Web&utm_medium=Web (via @WayneTCortez)
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  190. # [14:37] <Loqi> [[User:jdcangu2013]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=User:jdcangu2013&rcid=73326 * Jdcangu2013 * (+4835) tinyurl.com/dxloove Price Range about how precisely exactly
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  193. # [15:25] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * TomMorris * deleted "[[User:jdcangu2013]]": Vandalism
  194. # [15:25] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * TomMorris * blocked [[User:Jdcangu2013]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
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  230. # [21:05] <Loqi> [[dank We zaten samen 5 jaar in Brussel en zien elkaar nog geregeld how to get twitter followers Maar ik zit nu in Den HaagRotterdam en Bert in Amsterdam]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=dank_We_zaten_samen_5_jaar_in_Brussel_en_zien_elkaar_nog_geregeld_how_to_get_twitter_followers_Maar_ik_zit_nu_in_Den_HaagRotterdam_en_Bert_in_Amsterdam&rcid=73329 * LollieHutchins * (+1982)
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  235. # [21:41] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/block]] block * ChristopheDucamp * blocked [[User:LollieHutchins]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites
  236. # [21:41] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/delete]] delete * ChristopheDucamp * deleted "[[dank We zaten samen 5 jaar in Brussel en zien elkaar nog geregeld how to get twitter followers Maar ik zit nu in Den HaagRotterdam en Bert in Amsterdam]]": content was spam
  237. # [21:42] <Loqi> [[IDK www.onlinepharmacymd.com does it look fake LOLOL and you wish it would result in dodgy eheheeh]] N http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=IDK_www.onlinepharmacymd.com_does_it_look_fake_LOLOL_and_you_wish_it_would_result_in_dodgy_eheheeh&rcid=73332 * IndianaLogan5 * (+2252) New page: [[Image:www.onlinepharmacymd.com_3258.jpg|thumb|]] OKRT: : bizrock 555555 2 :)) Hey Arnold on t
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The end :)