/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2013-08-12 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Aug 12 00:27:11 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:27] * Now talking in #microformats
  4. # [00:27] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki/irc - if you are new here, add yourself to http://microformats.org/wiki/irc-people'
  5. # [00:27] * Set by tantek on Mon Apr 09 17:30:07
  6. # [00:27] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
  7. # [00:27] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
  8. # [00:27] <@tantek> retry: bret - I see shaners already discussed a bunch of the microformats2 JSON representation stuff
  9. # [00:34] * tantek changes topic to 'http://microformats.org/wiki Logs: http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today'
  10. # [00:42] <bret> tantek: yeah, we had a bit of a discussion
  11. # [00:43] <@tantek> bret - the short answer, which I didn't see in the discussion, is that the microformats2 canonical JSON is based on microdata canonical JSON
  12. # [00:44] <bret> I was curious if json-LD could share common ground with MD canonical json
  13. # [00:44] <bret> but then it came down to the fact it probably wanst important
  14. # [00:45] <bret> value/effort wise
  15. # [00:45] <bret> at least thats the impression i was left with
  16. # [00:45] <bret> i need to stop distracting myself with things that don't involve what I am focused on
  17. # [00:46] <@tantek> it happens
  18. # [00:46] <@tantek> at the time when I was figuring out canonical JSON for microformats2, I chose the simplest other such generic use of JSON
  19. # [00:47] <@tantek> so I deliberately chose for microformats2 JSON to share common ground with microdata canonical JSON
  20. # [00:47] <@tantek> when something more complex comes along (like JSON-LD), it's up to the more complex thing to share common ground with the simpler thing, not the other way around
  21. # [00:48] <@tantek> so basically, someone in whatever channel/forum JSON-LD is discussed should be asking if they can share common ground with microformats2 JSON, not vice versa
  22. # [00:48] <@tantek> that's where I'd leave that.
  23. # [00:50] <bret> hrmm
  24. # [00:51] <@tantek> always pursue the simplest solutions, and ignore the complex ones, despite their pleas for common ground or compromise
  25. # [00:52] <@tantek> leave the responsibility to those who pursue more complex solutions to educate themselves and simplify (or use the simpler solutions as building blocks for their own complex use cases)
  26. # [00:54] <Loqi> [[hcard-authoring]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hcard-authoring&diff=59092&oldid=59064&rcid=88018 * Tantek * (-94) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Occurance|Occurance]] ([[User talk:Occurance|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
  27. # [00:55] <Loqi> [[citation-formats]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=citation-formats&diff=59093&oldid=59068&rcid=88019 * Tantek * (-1) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Occurance|Occurance]] ([[User talk:Occurance|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]
  28. # [01:14] <Loqi> [[irc]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=irc&diff=59096&oldid=52454&rcid=88057 * Tantek * (+233) restarted krijnh logs and noted last time a day of logs was seen from it
  29. # [02:02] <Loqi> [[existing-rel-values]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=existing-rel-values&diff=59100&oldid=58158&rcid=88061 * Tantek * (+231) /* HTML5 link type extensions */ add rel=webmention, since it has a specification, and implementations
  30. # [02:12] <Loqi> [[pingback]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=pingback&diff=59104&oldid=59103&rcid=88065 * Tantek * (+108) note webmention as replacement
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  43. # [07:40] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * TomMorris * protected "[[make real money online]]": spam [create=sysop]
  44. # [08:04] <Loqi> [@StepUpWeb] hCard — формат, предназначенный для публикации контактной информации http://www.step-up-web.ru/hcard/ (http://twtr.io/bPr5hppik4)
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  60. # [15:23] <Loqi> [@afterhourmarket] #Win a pack of #awesome @Wordpress plugins worth $417! Claim Your Entry Now! Please Retweet http://www.matthewwoodward.co.uk/reviews/author-hreview-review-increase-search-traffic-with-eye-catching-serps/ via @mattwoodwarduk (http://twtr.io/bQWb2y4aC1)
  61. # [15:27] <Loqi> [@daveashton33] #Win a pack of #awesome @Wordpress plugins worth $417! Claim Your Entry Now! Please Retweet http://www.matthewwoodward.co.uk/reviews/author-hreview-review-increase-search-traffic-with-eye-catching-serps/ via @mattwoodwarduk (http://twtr.io/bQWy_xifDs)
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  83. # [19:40] <Loqi> [@The_hCard] The hCard is Funding the Heart of America! http://100percentfundraiser.com/ (http://twtr.io/bQthFjUE94)
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  91. # [20:08] <@tantek> shaners, well done. you've provoked the editor of the JSONLD spec into writing a very childish blog post that beyond trying to argue your points, succumbs to plenty of baseless attacks
  92. # [20:08] <@tantek> found via @kevinmarks
  93. # [20:10] <aaronpk> link?
  94. # [20:10] <aaronpk> found it http://manu.sporny.org/2013/json-ld-is-the-bees-knees/
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  96. # [20:12] <@tantek> I would hope that no one here would resort to mocking animated gifs to substantiate their arguments, as that post does.
  97. # [20:14] <aaronpk> wow
  98. # [20:14] <aaronpk> lol I like how the counterargument to shaners point about machine readable data formats changing every couple years is "At no point has any core designer of JSON-LD claimed 1) that JSON-LD will “solve our problems” (or even your particular problem), 2) that it won’t change, and 3) that it will be supported forever."
  99. # [20:15] <@tantek> we have other venues for mocking gifs: http://w3cmemes.tumblr.com/
  100. # [20:15] <@tantek> aaronpk - indeed, that reads like a lengthy admission of shaners's point
  101. # [20:16] <@tantek> shaners, welcome to the you've-been-mocked-by-a-prominent-semweb-person club
  102. # [20:21] <aaronpk> LOL "There have been no new Microformats released in the last 5 years" and "the mailing list traffic has been almost non-existent for around 5 years"
  103. # [20:21] <aaronpk> perhaps there should be an email update posted to the list directing people off of email and suggesting using IRC and the wiki
  104. # [20:22] <@tantek> aaronpk - maybe we could get an automated posting once a year or something :)
  105. # [20:22] <aaronpk> lol yeah
  106. # [20:23] <@tantek> it is pretty ironic - though one could be excused for missing all the progress we've made among the wikispam in recentchanges
  107. # [20:23] <Loqi> MISS ALL THE PROGRESS http://loqi.me/7mg
  108. # [20:24] <@tantek> I mean, it's not like there haven't been well attended presentations, talks, on microformats in the past year, with video on youtube of all the advances ;)
  109. # [20:26] <aaronpk> wow the second comment is interesting http://manu.sporny.org/2013/json-ld-is-the-bees-knees/#comment-2795
  110. # [20:30] <@tantek> aaronpk - indeed. really gets to the heart of any of manu's argumentative posts.
  111. # [20:31] <aaronpk> yea, ough
  112. # [20:31] <aaronpk> ouch*
  113. # [20:32] <@tantek> the post is a clear emotional overreaction, not indicative of a response that would show a desire for rational discussion/clarification
  114. # [20:32] <@tantek> I've basically deprioritized posts like that.
  115. # [20:32] <@tantek> too much productive/rational work to do with productive/rational people first.
  116. # [20:33] * Joins: romainneutron (~romain@5-49-69-114.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr)
  117. # [20:44] <Loqi> [@SamLongstrum] #Win a pack of #awesome @Wordpress plugins worth $417! Claim Your Entry Now! Please Retweet http://www.matthewwoodward.co.uk/reviews/author-hreview-review-increase-search-traffic-with-eye-catching-serps/ via @mattwoodwarduk (http://twtr.io/bQzTwK_mUH)
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  129. # [21:55] <Loqi> [@Mr_AndersonJr] Walter Tariq Anderson - You Have Zero Privacy! http://www.youhavezeroprivacy.com/hcard/ahJ5b3VoYXZlemVyb3ByaXZhY3lyDwsSB1Byb2ZpbGUYx9EBDA (http://twtr.io/bR5r6msUwY)
  130. # [21:56] <Hixie> wtf is json-ld
  131. # [21:57] <@tantek> Hixie - lolololol
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  133. # [22:01] <Hixie> no really
  134. # [22:01] <Hixie> is it just another serialisation format for RDF?
  135. # [22:02] <Hixie> basically a JSON vocabulary for describing RDF quads, the way that RDFa is an XHTML extension vocabulary for describing quads and the way RDF-XML is an XML vocabulary for describing quads and the way n3 and turtle are dedicated syntaxes for describing quads?
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  146. # [23:25] <Loqi> [@theprofitjam] #Win a pack of #awesome @Wordpress plugins worth $417! Claim Your Entry Now! Please Retweet http://www.matthewwoodward.co.uk/reviews/author-hreview-review-increase-search-traffic-with-eye-catching-serps/ via @mattwoodwarduk (http://twtr.io/bRDuLg3kmf)
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  150. # [23:50] <bret> I mean, I get the impression that people feel the need for extensive vocabulary standards
  151. # [23:50] <bret> hence schema.org, RDF, JSON-LD and activity streams
  152. # [23:50] <@tantek> bret - some of them have some use-cases, others, do not
  153. # [23:51] <bret> right, it just seems odd not to build off of the one that exists in the wild
  154. # [23:52] <@tantek> some of it is historical, some cultural, some ego
  155. # [23:52] <bret> tantek: what about the uF2 search engine support statement?
  156. # [23:52] <bret> didn't Bret or Brad talk to you about that this year?
  157. # [23:52] <@tantek> which statement? URL?
  158. # [23:52] <bret> i though I OH something
  159. # [23:53] <bret> lack of uF2 support in search engines
  160. # [23:54] <bret> that was one of the pieces of criticism in the JSON-LD rebuttal article
  161. # [23:54] <@tantek> I don't know of any support yet - there's no definitive proof either way until either someone see something working (positive result), or a search engine representative makes an official statement of non-support.
  162. # [23:54] <@tantek> hah - as if search engines index JSONLD or any JSON at all. hilarious.
  163. # [23:55] <@tantek> what we do know is that as specific microformats are adopted and published, search engine support increases over time
  164. # [23:56] <@tantek> per http://microformats.org/wiki/recently-in-microformats#Google_is_parsing_hMedia etc.
  165. # [23:56] <@tantek> same thing previously happened with hAtom
  166. # [23:56] <@tantek> and is likely to happen in the (near?) future with h-entry + h-card
  167. # [23:58] <bret> tantek: isn't payswarm working with mozilla on some payment stuff?
  168. # [23:59] <bret> thats what I was told in their IRC room a while ago
  169. # Session Close: Tue Aug 13 00:00:00 2013

The end :)