/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2013-08-18 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Sun Aug 18 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  5. # [01:10] <Loqi> [[Voyance Gratuite]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Voyance_Gratuite&diff=59656&oldid=59624&rcid=89395 * JeanneADTvrg * (+108)
  6. # [01:51] <Loqi> [[Common Answers To Home Mortgage Questions]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Common_Answers_To_Home_Mortgage_Questions&diff=59661&oldid=59657&rcid=89400 * Karentongue4 * (+266) Common_Answers_To_Home_Mortgage_Questions
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  13. # [04:04] <barnabywalters> Having late night thoughts about h-feed
  14. # [04:04] <barnabywalters> What are the use cases for wrapping entries in feeds?
  15. # [04:05] <barnabywalters> The only one I can think of is having multiple feeds on one page, e.g. Many people have a blog listing and then a feed of recent tweets in a sidebar
  16. # [04:05] <barnabywalters> Which creates huge UI and backend challenges further down the chain for subscribers
  17. # [04:06] <barnabywalters> E.g. I subscribe to a URL. It has multiple feeds on. I either am given a combination of all the h-entries (which may be undesirable in the eg given above)
  18. # [04:07] <barnabywalters> Or a UI to chose which feed(s) I want to subscribe to
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  20. # [04:07] <barnabywalters> If those feeds don't have ids, then there’s no way to express them as URLs
  21. # [04:08] <barnabywalters> meaning that feed readers need to store complex extra state about subscriptions
  22. # [04:08] <@tantek> barnabywalters - I think we captured a few use-cases on the wiki
  23. # [04:08] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#Use_Cases
  24. # [04:08] <barnabywalters> E.g. How to keep track of which unidentifiable h feed(s) are the relevant ones?
  25. # [04:08] <barnabywalters> And that those subscriptions cannot be exchanged between people as URLs
  26. # [04:09] <barnabywalters> All in all the possibility for nesting and all the nasty complexity which comes with it (as tantek rightly pointed out when I suggested nested h-feeds as a wrapper for comments) seems like a deal breaker
  27. # [04:10] <@tantek> the use cases on the wiki are sufficient to justify an explicit container of h-entrys with a name - thus an h-feed with a p-name
  28. # [04:10] <@tantek> what specifically is a deal breaker for what?
  29. # [04:10] <barnabywalters> I would contest that <title> already expresses that semantic at a page level
  30. # [04:11] <@tantek> indeed it does - thus: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed#How_do_I_avoid_duplicating_the_page_title
  31. # [04:11] <@tantek> :)
  32. # [04:11] <barnabywalters> tantek: deal breaker for actually consuming h-feed markup in feed readers
  33. # [04:11] <barnabywalters> When I was prototyping one it was an immediate wall I ran up against
  34. # [04:12] <barnabywalters> And one of the reasons I didn’t get very far — I assumed that being able to consume multiple h-feeds on a page was necessary
  35. # [04:12] <@tantek> I'm not sure it is
  36. # [04:12] <@tantek> I think if you just consume the top level h-feed (or just the first one you find), you're fine
  37. # [04:12] <@tantek> or rather - could you rephrase your problem as a question? :)
  38. # [04:12] <@tantek> as a "How do I …" question
  39. # [04:13] <@tantek> or a "What do I do when …"
  40. # [04:13] <barnabywalters> Exactly — as soon as you introduce that constraint (one top level h-feed), then h-feed becomes essentially unnecessary as <title> handles the naming use case
  41. # [04:13] <@tantek> maybe. sometimes people do different things with <title> for weird SEO or browser UI reasons
  42. # [04:14] <barnabywalters> “What do I do when a user subscribes to a URL with multiple distinct h-feeds”
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  44. # [04:14] <barnabywalters> Or multiple nested h-feeds
  45. # [04:15] <barnabywalters> (On a similar but tangential note, should comments also be h-cites a la reply contexts?)
  46. # [04:15] <barnabywalters> Thus enabling a consumer to just grab all the h-entries on a page regardless of nesting
  47. # [04:16] <@tantek> yes, comments should likely be citations
  48. # [04:16] <@tantek> since if a consuming application wants to syndicate them, they should go get the original
  49. # [04:17] <barnabywalters> I’m liking how reply contexts and distributed comments are helping solidify exactly what h-entry and h-cite mean
  50. # [04:17] <@tantek> indeed
  51. # [04:17] <@tantek> all these pieces are helping clarify solidify each other
  52. # [04:18] <barnabywalters> And verify that they're all actually useful
  53. # [04:18] <barnabywalters> Which I have not (yet) seen for h-feed
  54. # [04:20] <@tantek> well sandeep found it useful for his h-feed to Atom conversion service
  55. # [04:20] <@tantek> which he is using apparently
  56. # [04:20] <@tantek> I think he's also writing a personal reader
  57. # [04:22] <barnabywalters> h-feed works fine as a single, top level wrapper
  58. # [04:23] <barnabywalters> So probably the easiest way to deal with multiple h-feeds in a page is just to ignore them and use the first/top level one
  59. # [04:25] <barnabywalters> Look for h-feed markup to get feed semantics, then grab all the h-entries regardless of nesting and treat those as the contents
  60. # [04:26] <Loqi> [[h-feed]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h-feed&diff=59666&oldid=56128&rcid=89405 * Tantek * (+263) FAQ : What should a subscriber do with a page with multiple feeds
  61. # [04:27] <@tantek> I don't know about "regardless of nesting"
  62. # [04:27] <@tantek> I would just grab all the h-entries in the children array of the h-feed
  63. # [04:28] <@tantek> or rather, can you express your "probably" assertion as a question (or multiple) ?
  64. # [04:29] <barnabywalters> “If I parse a page with the goal of displaying a feed of entries, and it has multiple nested h-feeds, what do I do?”
  65. # [04:29] <barnabywalters> Same for multiple top-level h-feeds
  66. # [04:30] <barnabywalters> And any combination of the two
  67. # [04:31] <barnabywalters> Anyway, I need to sleep. Thanks for helping shape and record my confusion tantek
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  71. # [05:07] <Loqi> [@Pafuxu] エラー: Missing required field "updated". エラー: Missing required hCard "author". ========================= 気にしない、気にしない…。 (http://twtr.io/bbXzJhCKQo)
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  78. # [05:34] <Loqi> [[h-feed]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h-feed&diff=59675&oldid=59666&rcid=89414 * 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 * (+4173)
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  107. # [06:35] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Tantek * protected "[[Learn How To Get The Most Out Of Your Home Business]]": stub to block spammers [create=sysop]
  108. # [06:36] <Loqi> [[Special:Log/protect]] protect * Tantek * protected "[[Voyance Gratuite]]": stub to block spam [create=sysop]
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  112. # [07:08] <@tantek> Phae, tommorris, heads-up - we've got a weird spammer that is vandalizing existing pages.
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  114. # [07:09] <tommorris> tantek: thanks, will take a look and help out in a sec
  115. # [07:12] <tommorris> wow, they went through the wiki like a dose of salts
  116. # [07:14] <@tantek> yeah I think I got it all so far - but same spammer popped up again and I stopped it after one vandalism
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  135. # [11:33] <Loqi> [[h-feed]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h-feed&diff=59731&oldid=59675&rcid=89713 * Barnabywalters * (-4173) Undo revision 59675 by [[Special:Contributions/00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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  168. # [20:09] * ChanServ sets mode: +o tantek
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  173. # [20:26] * chiui_ is now known as chiui
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  175. # [21:36] * Quits: @tantek (~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) (Quit: tantek)
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  177. # Session Close: Sun Aug 18 22:11:25 2013
  178. #
  179. # Session Start: Sun Aug 18 22:11:25 2013
  180. # Session Ident: #microformats
  181. # [22:11] * Disconnected
  182. # [22:12] * Attempting to rejoin channel #microformats
  183. # [22:12] * Rejoined channel #microformats
  184. # [22:12] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki Logs: http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today'
  185. # [22:12] * Set by tantek!~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net on Mon Aug 12 00:38:23
  186. # [22:12] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
  187. # [22:12] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
  188. # Session Close: Sun Aug 18 22:12:55 2013
  189. #
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  191. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  195. # [22:15] * Topic is 'http://microformats.org/wiki Logs: http://logbot.glob.com.au/?c=freenode%23microformats&s=today'
  196. # [22:15] * Set by tantek!~tantek@50-0-164-83.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net on Mon Aug 12 00:38:23
  197. # [22:15] -ChanServ- [#microformats] Welcome to #microformats. Logs at http://krijnhoetmer.nl/irc-logs/microformats
  198. # [22:15] #microformats url is http://microformats.org
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  207. # Session Close: Mon Aug 19 00:00:00 2013

The end :)