/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2014-07-08 / end

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  14. # [02:48] <bret> say i have an html table… is there a microformat (or another tool) that lets me parse that table into json or csv or something?
  15. # [03:00] <@tantek> bret - I believe you're looking for the DOM?
  16. # [03:00] <@tantek> or the Table OM ?
  17. # [03:02] <bret> hrmmm maybe
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  76. # [16:48] <tommorris> oh wow. http://jsonresume.org/
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  79. # [17:00] <tommorris> hey tantek - check out this bit of silliness. http://jsonresume.org/
  80. # [17:08] <@tantek> tommorris - lol - perhaps add to microformats.org/wiki/resume-formats ? ;)
  81. # [17:08] <@tantek> hey at least it's not humans.txt ;)
  82. # [17:08] <tommorris> I’m just writing a particularly gnarly bug report for them.
  83. # [17:08] <tommorris> Basically blasting them with all the issues around names they haven’t thought about.
  84. # [17:09] <@tantek> tommorris - look they're on #jsonresume ;)
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  88. # [17:15] <tommorris> tantek: https://github.com/jsonresume/resume-schema/issues/62 ;)
  89. # [17:18] <tommorris> oh, wow, they have an open issue for internationalisation - for countries where there are multiple official languages like Canada with en_CA and fr_CA
  90. # [17:18] <tommorris> if only there were some way of representing that in HTML
  91. # [17:20] <tommorris> oh, and their attempt at representing addresses is a complete mess too.
  92. # [17:22] <@tantek> tommorris: it's like some college interns decided to do a summer project or something
  93. # [17:23] <tommorris> blimey. https://github.com/jsonresume/resume-schema/issues/4
  94. # [17:25] <@tantek> tommorris - hahahaha they're renaming names of naming fields. yo dawg....
  95. # [17:25] <@tantek> I heard you like renaming...
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  97. # [17:25] <@tantek> however, nice to see that other folks using hCard as a point of design in that issue
  98. # [17:26] <tommorris> as terrible standards go, this is definitely top 5 for me.
  99. # [17:26] <tommorris> number 1 is CWL: http://tommorris.org/posts/3364
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  101. # [17:26] <@tantek> tommorris: that URL for me "We're sorry, but something went wrong."
  102. # [17:27] <@tantek> <title>We're sorry, but something went wrong (500)</title>
  103. # [17:27] <tommorris> Hmm, odd.
  104. # [17:27] <tommorris> Google Cache version: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:0z_Nkl8MUF0J:tommorris.org/posts/3364+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk
  105. # [17:27] * tommorris investigates.
  106. # [17:29] <tommorris> https://github.com/jsonresume/resume-schema/issues/19 is hilarious too.
  107. # [17:29] <@tantek> tommorris - you must be bored
  108. # [17:30] <@tantek> you could instead open an issue saying they should close their effort and "just" use h-resume
  109. # [17:30] <@tantek> if they want a JSON version, just used the parsed output of mf2py or phpmf2
  110. # [17:30] <@tantek> done and done
  111. # [17:30] <tommorris> tantek: can you hit refresh on that post of mine?
  112. # [17:31] <@tantek> 400 Bad Request / nginx/1.4.6
  113. # [17:31] <@tantek> 3rd refresh it worked
  114. # [17:32] <tommorris> odd.
  115. # [17:35] <@tantek> funny that you remember such hilarity from 2008
  116. # [17:36] <@tantek> this is definitely good for some LOLs: http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/cwl/XGR-cwl/
  117. # [17:37] <@tantek> "a unambiguous formal language playing the same role of natural languages for humans." - because so many natural languages have an unambiguous role. lol.
  118. # [17:38] <@tantek> editors mostly from "Institute of Semantic Computing" - sounds legit.
  119. # [17:41] <tommorris> I wonder if I could break CWL by feeding it innuendo and double entendre.
  120. # [17:41] <@tantek> or just rewrite the CWL spec in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_english
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  122. # [17:44] <tommorris> tantek: all this sillness reminds me, need to find time to go through and make sure the microformats-2 versions of specs have as detailed examples as the original specs
  123. # [17:44] <tommorris> given people will want to copypasta them into their websites.
  124. # [17:45] <@tantek> I tend to think of the examples priority as somewhat like:
  125. # [17:45] <@tantek> 1. ultra minimal simple example - for someone to get how simple it can be
  126. # [17:45] <@tantek> 2. fairly "complete" example that makes use of all (or as much sensibly as possible) of the features in a single example
  127. # [17:46] <@tantek> 3. examples in between those based on real world use-cases
  128. # [17:46] <@tantek> see http://microformats.org/wiki/h-card for 1 and 3 for example
  129. # [17:47] <@tantek> and see http://microformats.org/wiki/hCard#Properties for an example of 2.
  130. # [17:47] <@tantek> what do you think of those?
  131. # [17:47] <tommorris> I was generally impressed with most of the examples on the classic pages
  132. # [17:47] <@tantek> I wasn't
  133. # [17:47] <@tantek> (even though I tried to do a good job on them :/ )
  134. # [17:48] <@tantek> trying to be more deliberate / methodical with h-* examples
  135. # [17:48] <tommorris> perhaps my bar for being impressed has been set very low by reading too many W3C specs. ;-)
  136. # [17:48] <@tantek> yes
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  144. # [19:11] <Loqi> [[web-sign-in]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=web-sign-in&diff=64403&oldid=53023&rcid=100761 * Tantek * (+429) susequent sign-ins, input type=url
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  162. # [21:24] <jgarber> Hello, all. A question about microformats-2 parsing rules. I'm using the <template> element which includes some h-entry class names: https://github.com/jgarber623/sixtwothree.org/blob/master/src/_layouts/post.html#L54-L66. By their nature, <template> elements are hidden and (particularly in my case) contain incomplete markup. Yet, microformats parsers include this in the output (see: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/parse
  163. # [21:24] <jgarber> ?source=http://sixtwothree.org/blog/now-accepting-webmentions/ ). Is this the desired behavior? Or, should parsers ignore content in <template> elements?
  164. # [21:25] <jgarber> That second link should be: http://news.indiewebcamp.com/parse?source=http://sixtwothree.org/blog/now-accepting-webmentions/
  165. # [21:26] <@tantek> microformats parsers do not treat <template> in any special way
  166. # [21:26] <@tantek> that is - it's like <span>
  167. # [21:26] <@tantek> so what should happen?
  168. # [21:26] <@tantek> and who supports <template> now?
  169. # [21:27] <jgarber> According to https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/template#Browser_compatibility, Chrome, Firefox, and Opera natively.
  170. # [21:29] <jgarber> And with some polyfilling, reasonably modern IE and Safari.
  171. # [21:29] <jgarber> I think the desired behavior would be to ignore content within <template> tags given the likelihood that the markup within is incomplete (as in my use case).
  172. # [21:31] <jgarber> The spec on w3.org: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/scripting-1.html#the-template-element and whatwg.org: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/scripting-1.html#the-template-element
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  174. # [21:34] <@tantek> so a "must ignore" then?
  175. # [21:34] <@tantek> like comments?
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  177. # [21:36] <jgarber> I believe so, yes.
  178. # [21:43] <Loqi> [@JitendraBlogger] Author hReview Plugin: Rich Snippets for WordPress http://www.bloggersideas.com/author-hreview-plugin-rich-snippets-for-wordpress/ via @jitendrablogger (http://twtr.io/oH3tGBkMvC)
  179. # [21:45] * tommorris wonders what the hell <template> is for.
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  181. # [21:46] <tommorris> these here HTML5 elements are popping up like crazy.
  182. # [21:51] <jgarber> tommorris It was new to me, too. According to MDN:
  183. # [21:51] <jgarber> The HTML template element <template> is a mechanism for holding client-side content that is not to be rendered when a page is loaded but may subsequently be instantiated during runtime using JavaScript. Think of a template as a content fragment that is being stored for subsequent use in the document. The parser does process the content of the <template> element during the page load to ensure that it is valid, however.
  184. # [21:52] <jgarber> It's a weird intersection of content and behavior and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it. But... it's in the spec.
  185. # [21:52] <tommorris> Odd. I was looking for something similar recently, but that’s not it. ;-)
  186. # [21:52] <KartikPrabhu> why are people pushing templating into HTML?
  187. # [21:53] <Hixie> microformat parsers that parse HTML according to the HTML parsing rules shouldn't see the contents of <template> elements
  188. # [21:53] <Hixie> the microformat spec shouldn't need to mention them
  189. # [21:54] * KartikPrabhu nods
  190. # [21:54] * tommorris wonders what the HTML parsing rules are… this week. ;-)
  191. # [21:54] <Hixie> (stuff between <template> tags don't end up in the DOM)
  192. # [21:54] <Hixie> (they end up in a side document)
  193. # [21:54] <Hixie> tommorris: hey, we have them now. this is a significant step up from a few years ago.
  194. # [21:54] <tommorris> true dat.
  195. # [21:55] <@tantek> Hixie, thanks for the clarification. I'll make an informative note to that extent then. Could be worth a test case.
  196. # [21:56] <jgarber> tantek: You could run http://sixtwothree.org/blog/now-accepting-webmentions/ through any of the existing parsers and observe an incomplete h-entry pulled from a <template> element.
  197. # [21:56] <jgarber> A lone example, for sure, though.
  198. # [21:57] <tommorris> tantek: definitely worth a test case, and given that a fair few parsers are probably simply using some kind of permissive-tagsoup parse rather than a full browser-style page parse, templates with microformats classes potentially could break them.
  199. # [22:00] <@tantek> thanks jgarber - a lone example will suffice for now
  200. # [22:02] <jgarber> Sure thing! Happy to help out.
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  202. # [22:02] <tommorris> tantek, Hixie: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/commit/92740deb7e19b8f1e7fbf6bec001cf52f2b07e99 - got a failing test case for it. ;)
  203. # [22:02] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=64404&oldid=64261&rcid=100762 * Tantek * (+416) explicit reference to HTML parsing rules at start, add note HTML parsing rules section and template example, and jgarber test case in the wild
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  206. # [22:03] <@tantek> tommorris - could you file that on phpmf2 as well?
  207. # [22:03] <@tantek> FYI: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#note_HTML_parsing_rules
  208. # [22:06] <tommorris> filed - https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/52
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  210. # [22:08] <KartikPrabhu> is there a list of tags that are supposed to be ignored in HTML parsing?
  211. # [22:08] <tommorris> KartikPrabhu: well, ideally you should follow the HTML parsing rules in the spec.
  212. # [22:09] <KartikPrabhu> yes... to follow the parsing rules, I want a list of tags to be ignored
  213. # [22:09] * Loqi gives KartikPrabhu a list of tags to be ignored
  214. # [22:09] <KartikPrabhu> unless I trust my HTML parser to do the right thing which has been tricky
  215. # [22:10] <tommorris> I’ll probably hack the template ignore rule into mf2py until html5parser for python gets updated to support it.
  216. # [22:15] <KartikPrabhu> tommorris: yeah my thoughts exactly :)
  217. # [22:16] <tommorris> and fixed. https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/commit/c37b645a5adb002e362df110bb23ff3a65fdf8ad
  218. # [22:17] <@tantek> tommorris++
  219. # [22:17] <Loqi> tommorris has 28 karma
  220. # [22:17] <KartikPrabhu> tommorris++ will pull that also send a PR for some datetime parsing improvements kylewm made to my fork
  221. # [22:17] <Loqi> tommorris has 29 karma
  222. # [22:18] <tommorris> KartikPrabhu: if you’ve got those, am happy to merge in and maybe put out a new release this week
  223. # [22:18] <KartikPrabhu> cool will send PR tonight
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The end :)