/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2014-07-09 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  13. # [00:58] <@tantek> ok now it's bugging me that we look at <link> elements for rel values but not for h-* microformats properties, specifically u-* properties
  14. # [01:01] <@tantek> !tell tommorris, Kartikprabhu what do you think of changing http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing##a.u-x[href]%20or%20area.u-x[href] to "a.u-x[href] or area.u-x[href] or link.u-x[href]" ?
  15. # [01:01] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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  17. # [01:54] <gRegor`> I like it, tantek, as someone who doesn't necessarily want to alter their design to add a photo / h-card on the homepage. Although my shortcut icons are just the "g" currently, not my photo.
  18. # [01:54] <@tantek> but you do *have* a shortcut icon at least
  19. # [01:54] <@tantek> even if it is minimal
  20. # [01:54] <@tantek> do you not show the icon on the page?
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  22. # [01:56] <Loqi> KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 55 minutes ago: what do you think of changing http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing##a.u-x[href]%20or%20area.u-x[href] to "a.u-x[href] or area.u-x[href] or link.u-x[href]" ?
  23. # [01:58] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: re link.u-x[href] if there are enough use-cases then it wouldn't be hard to change mf2py code
  24. # [01:58] <gRegor`> No, I don't show the shortcut icon on the homepage. Just the logo at the top.
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  26. # [02:04] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: good to know
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  47. # [06:49] <Loqi> [@prettysam509] I hCard. nt tht I really care. (http://twtr.io/oHsyL4cqiD)
  48. # [06:51] <KartikPrabhu> what ^
  49. # [06:52] <@tantek> as in I hCard therefore I am?
  50. # [06:52] <kylewm> https://twitter.com/prettysam509/status/486733097527148545
  51. # [06:52] <Loqi> [@prettysam509] i mean heard. (http://twtr.io/oHszVTD5hR)
  52. # [06:54] <@tantek> wait - did autocorrect type that "hCard" then?!?
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  82. # [11:10] <tommorris> tantek: I’m not sure there are any use cases for using link elements as u- properties. but we should probably have a formalised discussion on the wiki about it.
  83. # [11:10] <Loqi> tommorris: tantek left you a message 10 hours, 9 minutes ago: what do you think of changing http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing##a.u-x[href]%20or%20area.u-x[href] to "a.u-x[href] or area.u-x[href] or link.u-x[href]" ?
  84. # [11:11] <@tantek> tommorris - the use-case so far is http://adactio.com/about/myself/ which only contains a logo for adactio in a link element, which could work with u-photo if we put class=h-card on <html>
  85. # [11:11] <tommorris> but in the case of parsing, if it makes sense within the semantics of HTML, I’m not too bothered about there not being strong use cases, so long as one could plausibly use it that way and not break things.
  86. # [11:12] <@tantek> "makes sense within the semantics of HTML" is necessary but not sufficient
  87. # [11:12] <@tantek> as we deliberately avoid encouraging invisible metadata
  88. # [11:12] <@tantek> so for example, microformats2 parsing ignores <meta> elements
  89. # [11:13] <tommorris> so, allow invisible metadata iff compelling use cases can be presented?
  90. # [11:13] <@tantek> well, allow *semi*visible data
  91. # [11:13] <@tantek> iff etc.
  92. # [11:14] <@tantek> the link icon is semi-visible because it shows up in browser UI sometimes, and when a user chooses "Add to Home Page" on a mobile device
  93. # [11:14] <@tantek> as opposed to <meta> tags in general which are invisible always or nearly always
  94. # [11:16] <tommorris> my issue is I can’t imagine a scenario where someone would write, say, an hCard that intermixes link elements amongst other properties
  95. # [11:18] <@tantek> tommorris <html class="h-card">
  96. # [11:19] <tommorris> HTML LS says that you can use the link element in three context: “where metadata content is expected” (which is?), in a noscript element that is the child of a head element, or something involving microdata/itemprop
  97. # [11:19] <tommorris> tantek: that makes sense
  98. # [11:19] <@tantek> someone writes an h-card that *re-uses* not intermixes link elements that already have the content or infomation
  99. # [11:20] <tommorris> so, the use of the <link> element to point to PGP public keys that indieauth is encouraging
  100. # [11:21] <tommorris> <html class="h-card”><head><title class="p-name”>Tom Morris</title><link rel="u-x-gpg-public-key" href=“…" /> etc.
  101. # [11:23] <Loqi> [[invisible-data-is-considered-harmful]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=invisible-data-is-considered-harmful&diff=64406&oldid=64405&rcid=100764 * TomMorris * (+0) fix redir
  102. # [11:23] <@tantek> right
  103. # [11:25] <tommorris> /me writes it up for the wiki
  104. # [11:26] <@tantek> tommorris - the other aspect that makes me want to fix this (as proposed in the !tell to you above) is that we are already parsing <link> elements for rel values
  105. # [11:26] <@tantek> so it's odd to ignore them for properties inside h-* microformats
  106. # [11:27] <tommorris> I think mf2py is just parsing for *[@rel] rather than any particular elements with rels
  107. # [11:27] <tommorris> which is what the spec says.
  108. # [11:28] <@tantek> really?
  109. # [11:28] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64407&oldid=64278&rcid=100765 * TomMorris * (+932) link elements and u- parsing question
  110. # [11:28] <@tantek> spec says "to parse a hyperlink element for rel microformats:"
  111. # [11:28] <@tantek> not "all" elements
  112. # [11:29] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing#parse_a_hyperlink_element_for_rel_microformats
  113. # [11:29] <tommorris> well, the Talmudic scholar will respond: what counts as a hyperlink element?
  114. # [11:29] <tommorris> just <a> or <area> and <link>? ;-)
  115. # [11:29] <@tantek> tommorris: you added a new issue to the resolved section
  116. # [11:30] <@tantek> :P
  117. # [11:30] <tommorris> heh, not enough caffeine.
  118. # [11:30] <@tantek> serves the Talmudic scholar appropriately
  119. # [11:30] <@tantek> ;)
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  121. # [11:31] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64408&oldid=64407&rcid=100766 * TomMorris * (+1) moved from resolved to issues
  122. # [11:32] <tommorris> and, yes, the Wikipedia administrator sucks at using wikis.
  123. # [11:32] <@tantek> ;)
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  126. # [11:35] <@tantek> so basically there's the (weak) consistency argument (<link> is parsed for rel, so should also be parsed for u-* properties), and there's the *potential* (strong) real world use case argument (if adactio goes the <html class="h-card"> path and uses <link class=u-logo rel="shortcut icon …" href="…"/> )
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  128. # [11:44] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64410&oldid=64408&rcid=100768 * Tantek * (+485) /* link elements and u- parsing */ note semi-visible rel=icon link, use code instead of kbd for markup
  129. # [11:44] <@tantek> !tell barnabywalters,KartikPrabhu update for your consideration: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
  130. # [11:44] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
  131. # [11:45] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64411&oldid=64410&rcid=100769 * Tantek * (+69) /* link elements and u- parsing */ link to specific uf2 rel parsing
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  135. # [12:20] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64412&oldid=64411&rcid=100770 * TomMorris * (+143) /* link elements and u- parsing */ comment
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  170. # [16:12] <tommorris> mf2py 0.2.1 has been released - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mf2py/0.2.1
  171. # [16:12] <tommorris> KartikPrabhu et al. ^^
  172. # [16:12] <Loqi> [@legacypython] mf2py 0.2.1: Python Microformats2 parser (http://twtr.io/oJibbtoGRc)
  173. # [16:13] <tommorris> "legacy". :)
  174. # [16:15] <Loqi> [@artwisanggeni] #python mf2py 0.2.1: Python Microformats2 parser https://pypi.python.org/pypi/mf2py/0.2.1 (http://twtr.io/oJiqkurSdw)
  175. # [16:22] <tommorris> Now worrying about all the other craziness that lurks inside the HTML spec.
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  210. # [20:00] <Loqi> [@rbekgy2y49g6ek] @r7L HCalendar (http://twtr.io/oK430Ru4J9)
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  230. # [21:33] <Loqi> KartikPrabhu: tantek left you a message 9 hours, 48 minutes ago: update for your consideration: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
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  244. # [23:41] <Loqi> [@tezgu8j_kf6cd1] @r7L HCalendar (http://twtr.io/oKPvMTc8QY)
  245. # [23:49] * Parts: gRegor` (me@72.251.200.122)
  246. # Session Close: Thu Jul 10 00:00:00 2014

The end :)