/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2014-07-10 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Thu Jul 10 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  14. # [01:33] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64413&oldid=64412&rcid=100771 * KP * (+153) /* link elements and u- parsing */
  15. # [01:34] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: re link elements question: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
  16. # [01:35] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: re: should the door be opened to hidden mf data? note that the door is *already* open to <link> via rel parsing, and the <link>s we're talking about are all semi-visible, not completely hidden
  17. # [01:35] <@tantek> (some of that is in the issue text)
  18. # [01:36] <KartikPrabhu> yes... but nothing stops people from using it for any <link>
  19. # [01:36] <KartikPrabhu> best practice would be to restrict to semi-visible ones
  20. # [01:37] <KartikPrabhu> in any case my point being, that if there are enough use-cases then it can easily be added
  21. # [01:37] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: when you say " from using it for any <link> " - can you give specific examples that you're concerned about?
  22. # [01:37] <@tantek> I'd rather not add any special casing - to keep the model simpler / more predictable (to authors and parser developers)
  23. # [01:38] <KartikPrabhu> agreed
  24. # [01:38] <@tantek> in fact, that desire for a simpler model is what's driving the "weak" argument of consistency with "rel" parsing
  25. # [01:38] <@tantek> why should <link> *only* be parsed for "rel"?
  26. # [01:38] <KartikPrabhu> hmm fair enough
  27. # [01:39] <@tantek> why should <link rel="in-reply-to"> work but not <link class="u-in-reply-to"> (presumably inside an <html class="h-entry"> on a post permalink page) ?
  28. # [01:39] <KartikPrabhu> it is true that if people want to put hidden data they can already do so
  29. # [01:39] <@tantek> again - can you provide a specific real world <link> hidden data example that you're concerned about?
  30. # [01:40] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: it seems any example I can think of can use a rel instead of u-* so it won't be a valid example
  31. # [01:41] <KartikPrabhu> so now I agree that <link rel> and <link class=u-*> should be on the same footing
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  34. # [01:46] <@tantek> ok just waiting on barnabywalters' opinion then
  35. # [01:46] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: perhaps update your comment on the issue then
  36. # [01:46] <KartikPrabhu> aah yes. on it
  37. # [01:49] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64414&oldid=64413&rcid=100772 * KP * (+266) /* link elements and u- parsing */ added in favour
  38. # [01:53] <@tantek> KevinMarks: would appreciate your feedback and analysis of this too: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
  39. # [01:56] <KevinMarks> hm. That is tricky as it is a tension between DRY and invisible metadata
  40. # [01:57] <@tantek> KevinMarks: see detail about semi-visible rather than invisible
  41. # [01:58] <@tantek> <link rel=icon> is not truly invisible - it's semi-visible
  42. # [02:01] <KevinMarks> historically we've eschewed link-rel form some things (tags) and not others. If you allow link-rel allowing u-* on a link makes sense, though there may be containment issues wiht parsers
  43. # [02:02] <KevinMarks> do you put the h-* on the <head>? or the <html>?
  44. # [02:02] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks: that just decides the scope of the h-*
  45. # [02:02] <@tantek> KevinMarks: we don't disallow h-* on <head> or <html> right now - it's just that no one is doing it. (as in current parsers support it on both)
  46. # [02:03] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: i think barnabywalters uses h-* on html
  47. # [02:03] <@tantek> I see <html class="h-*"> applying to currently published markup use-cases
  48. # [02:03] <@tantek> I don't see <head class="h-*"> applying to any currently real world markup use-cases.
  49. # [02:03] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: URL?
  50. # [02:03] <KevinMarks> what do parsers do with a u-* not inside an h-* now?
  51. # [02:03] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/4WjHpC/
  52. # [02:03] <@tantek> KevinMarks: they never see it
  53. # [02:03] <@tantek> aka they ignore it
  54. # [02:04] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks: yes. properties are parsed only inside the root microformat i.e. h-*
  55. # [02:04] <KevinMarks> that's what I thought
  56. # [02:05] <KevinMarks> there was some bug with one of the parsers and h-* on html, did that get fixed?
  57. # [02:05] <KartikPrabhu> we monkey-patched that in mf2py
  58. # [02:05] <KartikPrabhu> the trouble was with beautiful soup and html5lib
  59. # [02:06] <KartikPrabhu> documented here: https://github.com/kartikprabhu/mf2py/issues/41
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  61. # [02:37] <KartikPrabhu> KevinMarks: do you know if "ignoring everything inside <noscript>" is the right behaviour for HTML parsers?
  62. # [02:41] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64415&oldid=64414&rcid=100773 * Tantek * (+1654) /* link elements and u- parsing */ expand issue description with IRC discussion, links to real world examples, more specific markup
  63. # [02:41] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu, KevinMarks ok expanded issue with what we discussed here - does that read ok? http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#link_elements_and_u-_parsing
  64. # [02:42] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: reads well. examples are a nice addition
  65. # [02:43] <@tantek> thanks. I like to strengthen these things like a proof.
  66. # [02:43] <@tantek> so that by the time we have a resolution the answer seems obvious.
  67. # [02:43] * KartikPrabhu approves :P
  68. # [03:03] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64416&oldid=64415&rcid=100774 * Tantek * (+594) bump link elements and u- parsing to top of list since it has documented real world examples, move extraciton issue and Parsing properties from rel issue to resolved since it has a proposed resolution
  69. # [03:04] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64417&oldid=64416&rcid=100775 * Tantek * (+18) Issue raised by
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  75. # [03:36] <mko> Out of curiosity, does know the format for directly linking to an IRC nick (i.e. "Send a message to X on freenode.net" with a link like "irc://chat.freenode.net/nick" similar to the IRC room URL format)?
  76. # [03:37] <@tantek> mko no one supports it
  77. # [03:38] <mko> That's a shame.
  78. # [03:38] <mko> @tantek: Thanks.
  79. # [03:38] <@tantek> and it's really difficult to find - the spec really sucks
  80. # [03:40] <@tantek> let's see there's this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/URI_scheme#irc:
  81. # [03:41] <@tantek> yeah ,isuser
  82. # [03:41] <@tantek> here you go: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-butcher-irc-url-04#page-8
  83. # [03:42] <@tantek> <irc://irc.alien.net.au/pickle,isuser> for opening a message to user/nickname "pickle"
  84. # [03:43] <@tantek> mko - if you find *any* IRC client in which that works, please let me know
  85. # [03:43] <@tantek> all my testing revealed zero success
  86. # [03:43] <@tantek> and all kinds of broken silent failure behavior
  87. # [03:43] <@tantek> e.g. joining a room "pickle" instead
  88. # [03:44] <mko> Yeah. Joining a room was pretty much the only thing I could figure out how to reliably do when I tried to figure it out a few days ago.
  89. # [03:44] <mko> Thanks for the update and confirmation of the bad spec.
  90. # [03:45] <@tantek> it's so bad I didn't bother to document it on any wiki (pretty sure)
  91. # [03:45] <mko> Yeah. I actually went looking on your wiki's communication preferences as a primary source when I couldn't find it via typical searching.
  92. # [03:46] <@tantek> mko - here's a list of URLs that *do* work in various degress for comm services/apps: http://tantek.com/2014/084/b1/urls-people-focused-mobile-communication
  93. # [03:47] <mko> Excellent!
  94. # [03:47] <mko> @tantek +1
  95. # [03:47] <mko> Oh. Loqi isn't in this room anymore.
  96. # [03:47] <Loqi> :)
  97. # [03:47] <mko> Or is . . .
  98. # [03:48] <mko> @tantek ++
  99. # [03:48] <mko> @tantek++
  100. # [03:48] <mko> Alright. Screw it, Loqi. I don't know how to give @tantek karma, but clearly, he's got a lot.
  101. # [03:50] <@tantek> hah - I don't think Loqi listens to @-names. try dropping the @
  102. # [03:51] <mko> tantek++
  103. # [03:51] <Loqi> tantek has 49 karma
  104. # [03:51] <mko> Oh. Well, there you go.
  105. # [03:52] <KartikPrabhu> mko: strangely tantek on has 49 karma
  106. # [03:52] <mko> Right?
  107. # [03:52] <mko> I expected much more.
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  127. # [07:29] <Loqi> [@spiegel_bookmrk] [bookmark] MicroformatsとRDFaのhReviewを比較 | kots blog http://kots.jp/blog/site-structured/3567/ (http://twtr.io/oL61x9NswY)
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  214. # Session Close: Fri Jul 11 00:00:00 2014

The end :)