/irc-logs / freenode / #microformats / 2014-11-17 / end

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  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  42. # [11:14] <ChiefRA> !tell tantek I just realized one of the main obstacles for hListing usage is the lack of implementation examples (real in-code implementation) for the 2-words properties. ex. "item info": which tag should encapsulate all the details like (fn || url || photo || geo || adr) | hCard?
  43. # [11:14] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
  44. # [11:16] <ChiefRA> !tell tantek Should it be exactly class="item info" OR class="item-info". This needs to be defined as it has to keep within all the details of the item.
  45. # [11:16] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell him that when I see him next
  46. # [11:28] <Loqi> [[gender-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=gender-examples&diff=64655&oldid=64619&rcid=101018 * TomMorris * (+663) adding OKCupid's new gender and sexuality options
  47. # [11:29] <tommorris> ChiefRA: you might want to document that on the wiki. ideally, we'd be able to work out canonical mappings from hListing -> h-listing (mf2) -> json
  48. # [11:31] <Loqi> [[gender-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=gender-examples&diff=64656&oldid=64655&rcid=101019 * TomMorris * (+190) /* discussion elsewhere */ adding some basic intro-to-trans links
  49. # [11:37] <ChiefRA> tommorris I do that as we speak, I've created a second page non-linked in the main Wiki http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions only for related discussions and to step up to 1.0 version, to drop the "draft"
  50. # [11:37] <ChiefRA> please have a look if you wish, by comparison with the original hlisting page.
  51. # [11:38] <tommorris> ChiefRA: -draft might be a better page name. will move in a sec. ;)
  52. # [11:39] <tommorris> And I'd be less than keen on canonicalising any pre-mf2 specs.
  53. # [11:39] <ChiefRA> yeah :) the thing is we need to get ourselves a brainstorming discussion to finish this.
  54. # [11:39] <ChiefRA> can we setup such a thing?
  55. # [11:40] <ChiefRA> after we finish the 1.0 we can move out to canonicalising it to mf2, but for now, Google started to support the hListing, that's why I'm so keen to finish up this version.
  56. # [11:40] <ChiefRA> to be able to pass it on with the latest changes, to be implemneted in Google.
  57. # [11:41] <ChiefRA> as for now, there are a few ambiguities on the 1.0 draft which needs to be resolved.
  58. # [11:42] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64657&oldid=64626&rcid=101020 * TomMorris * (+21) /* Examples in the Wild */ moving Emurse down
  59. # [11:42] <ChiefRA> The thing is, I will give them not only the 1.0 (definitive version) but also real-life examples of websites which are ALREADY using this version.
  60. # [11:43] <tommorris> ChiefRA: do you want to go through the examples in the wild on hlisting to ensure they are up-to-date?
  61. # [11:43] <ChiefRA> they are not up-to-date anymore.
  62. # [11:44] <ChiefRA> I tried to open the Match.com example, without success, seems that this website hasn't been updated in a while.
  63. # [11:45] <ChiefRA> the thing is, I'll provide enough examples at the end :) As I'll be implementing it within our websites in a matter of days after we finish.
  64. # [11:45] <ChiefRA> so there will be plenty of examples, at least from the Real Estate.
  65. # [11:45] <ChiefRA> what I need us to do, is to discuss and finish the existing ambiguities.
  66. # [11:46] <ChiefRA> Can we get toghether me, you tantek and other guys from here to finish this up?
  67. # [11:46] <ChiefRA> I mean do we have a way of schedule a meeting for this?
  68. # [11:46] <tommorris> ChiefRA: do start documenting examples. I haven't looked at the issues raised in the spec, but if we can see how people are using hListing in practice, that can guide discussions around the issues.
  69. # [11:50] <ChiefRA> tommorris I already did that fpr the past 2 years. That's why I'd like to discuss this. I'm one of the users who do use hListing a lot within Real Estate and I'd like to rezolve the aforementioned issues.
  70. # [11:52] <ChiefRA> tommorris I kept a close eye on this matter and I've reached several conclusions, one of the is that the specs are ambiguous that's why people refrain from implementing it, this needs to be discussed.
  71. # [11:53] <tommorris> ChiefRA: will have a look at the issues you've raised and try to devote some mental time to opining
  72. # [11:53] <ChiefRA> tommorris that's why I've asked you if you know a way to setup an on-line meeting to discuss all these problems.
  73. # [11:53] <ChiefRA> thanks :)
  74. # [11:53] <tommorris> ChiefRA: and also see if I can find time to implement hListing -> mf2 shim in mf2py
  75. # [11:54] <ChiefRA> It would be great, we definitely need a parser for hListing.
  76. # [11:55] <ChiefRA> tommorris where do you want me to place these issues?
  77. # [11:55] <ChiefRA> the ones I found so far.
  78. # [11:57] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64658&oldid=64657&rcid=101021 * TomMorris * (-66) /* Examples in the Wild */ moving EveryCarListed down
  79. # [11:57] <ChiefRA> http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues OR http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-brainstorming ?
  80. # [11:57] <tommorris> ChiefRA: an issues page like hCard etc have.
  81. # [11:57] <ChiefRA> then http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues
  82. # [11:57] <tommorris> -issues is best for issues. -brainstorming is better for crazy ideas
  83. # [11:57] <ChiefRA> tommorris ok I'll place there the issues.
  84. # [12:09] <Loqi> [[hlisting-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting-issues&diff=64659&oldid=43119&rcid=101022 * ChiefRA * (+482) /* issues */ adding all the recent issues I've found
  85. # [12:16] <Loqi> [[rel-payment]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=rel-payment&diff=64660&oldid=64238&rcid=101023 * TomMorris * (+25) /* See also */ rel-payment-issues
  86. # [12:25] <Loqi> [[payment-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=payment-examples&diff=64661&oldid=64161&rcid=101024 * TomMorris * (+684) adding section on bitcoin URL scheme and QR codes
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  88. # [12:33] <Loqi> [[rel-payment-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=rel-payment-issues&diff=64662&oldid=52476&rcid=101025 * TomMorris * (+727) rel deprecation
  89. # [12:34] <tommorris> ChiefRA: rel-payment-issues now includes an issue suggesting we ought to deprecate rel-payment and replace it with a u-payment class, and suggesting we could integrate this into a future h-listing spec. this may be of interest.
  90. # [12:34] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64663&oldid=64658&rcid=101026 * TomMorris * (+72) /* See also */ adding redlink to [[microformats-2]]-backed spec
  91. # [12:36] <Loqi> [[microformats2]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2&diff=64664&oldid=64645&rcid=101027 * TomMorris * (+16) /* v2 vocabularies */ adding [[h-listing]]
  92. # [12:41] <Loqi> [[hlisting-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting-issues&diff=64665&oldid=64659&rcid=101028 * TomMorris * (+295) /* issues */ deprecate version
  93. # [12:46] <tommorris> I can't yet seem to find an online microdata parser like there are for both microformats, microformats-2 and RDFa...
  94. # [12:48] <tommorris> Downloaded Mida, the Ruby microdata parser. Doesn't work.
  95. # [12:56] <Loqi> [[listing-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=listing-examples&diff=64666&oldid=31463&rcid=101029 * TomMorris * (+697) adding Gumtree
  96. # [13:33] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64667&oldid=64663&rcid=101030 * TomMorris * (-69) /* Examples in the Wild */ moving ooyoo to past
  97. # [13:36] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64668&oldid=64667&rcid=101031 * TomMorris * (-130) /* Examples in the Wild */ realestate.com (or, specifically, realestate.foreclosures.com which is the only bit of the site that has listings) does not have hListings anymore
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  99. # [13:40] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64669&oldid=64668&rcid=101032 * TomMorris * (+38) /* Examples in the Wild */ dealtagger still live
  100. # [13:41] <ChiefRA> tommorris ok. I'll add www.sothebysrealty.com as hListing examples.
  101. # [13:42] <tommorris> ChiefRA: I'm not seeing any hListings on the detail pages
  102. # [13:43] <tommorris> oh, wait, no on the search results page.
  103. # [13:44] <ChiefRA> http://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/new-york-ny-usa
  104. # [13:44] <tommorris> yep, but the individual detail pages don't seem to have them
  105. # [13:44] <ChiefRA> it doesn't, I'm working on them :D
  106. # [13:45] <ChiefRA> so far, I'm perfecting the format. When it's ready, I'll implement it all over.
  107. # [13:45] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64670&oldid=64669&rcid=101033 * TomMorris * (+171) /* Examples in the Wild */ adding SothebysRetail.com
  108. # [13:45] <ChiefRA> :)
  109. # [13:46] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64671&oldid=64670&rcid=101034 * ChiefRA * (+0) /* Examples in the Wild */ - corrected the name
  110. # [13:46] <Loqi> [[hlisting-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting-issues&diff=64672&oldid=64665&rcid=101035 * TomMorris * (+201) /* 2014 */ HTML design principles
  111. # [13:47] <ChiefRA> and there are a lot of Sothebys affiliates websites which have the same hListing, over 100 of them.
  112. # [13:47] <ChiefRA> so there are plenty of examples which will go LIVE with the latest format of hListing after we perfect it.
  113. # [13:48] <tommorris> cool.
  114. # [13:50] <ChiefRA> I'll add the Christies Real Estate too, I've been implementing there too. Also, their affiliates have it.
  115. # [13:52] <tommorris> Good work. In the -issues page, it'd help if you could make reference to particular sites and markup examples where you have faced particular issues.
  116. # [13:53] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64673&oldid=64671&rcid=101036 * ChiefRA * (+174) /* Examples in the Wild */ - adding Christies Real Estate to examples
  117. # [13:53] <ChiefRA> well, it's a lot to write, but I'll add first the problems then I'll go into detail of every one.
  118. # [13:56] <ChiefRA> tommorris we definitely need a parser/validator for hListing to indicate the possible implementation errors.
  119. # [13:58] <tommorris> That's why I want to build an initial mapping to microformats-2 and a preliminary candidate microformats-2 schema so I can implement both in mf2py.
  120. # [14:17] <ChiefRA> tommorris the thing is h-Listing (mf2 version) I don't think it will be supported by Google... as far as I've asked them about the rest of mf2 and they said they didn't add support for any of them...
  121. # [14:18] <tommorris> ChiefRA: sure, but current best practice with microformats is we define a microformat-2 and define backwards compatibility for it.
  122. # [14:18] <ChiefRA> and they don't have any plans in this regard... so based on this statement, I would only worry about the v.1 of those that are already supported.
  123. # [14:18] <ChiefRA> ok, now I get it.
  124. # [14:19] <tommorris> the idea is that it makes it easier for parser implementers too.
  125. # [14:19] <ChiefRA> ok then :) we'll brainstorm that.
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  137. # [16:54] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64674&oldid=64673&rcid=101037 * TomMorris * (+0) /* Examples in the Wild */ netinstruments doesn't support hListing anymore
  138. # [16:56] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64675&oldid=64674&rcid=101038 * TomMorris * (-209) /* Examples in the Wild */ moving imovelweb.com.br down to past examples
  139. # [16:58] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64676&oldid=64675&rcid=101039 * TomMorris * (-74) /* Examples in the Wild */ transcontinental site is no more, the site it redirects to doesn't use hListing either
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  142. # [17:01] <Loqi> [[hlisting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting&diff=64678&oldid=64677&rcid=101041 * TomMorris * (-111) /* Examples in the Wild */ no more on Kelkoo
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  144. # [17:02] <tommorris> ChiefRA, tantek: there we go, got the Examples in the Wild section tamed. This is rather depressing. I'm almost tempted to say that hListing is a failed microformat.
  145. # [17:03] <@tantek> tommorris: the only reason we'd *not* consider it failed is if there is evidence that there is at least one major consumer out there (Google, or other search engines) that does *something* predictable with it
  146. # [17:03] <Loqi> tantek: ChiefRA left you a message 5 hours, 49 minutes ago: I just realized one of the main obstacles for hListing usage is the lack of implementation examples (real in-code implementation) for the 2-words properties. ex. "item info": which tag should encapsulate all the details like (fn || url || photo || geo || adr) | hCard?
  147. # [17:04] <Loqi> tantek: ChiefRA left you a message 5 hours, 47 minutes ago: Should it be exactly class="item info" OR class="item-info". This needs to be defined as it has to keep within all the details of the item.
  148. # [17:04] <Loqi> [[Main Page]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page&diff=64679&oldid=64631&rcid=101042 * TomMorris * (-9) /* Archived */ fixing link
  149. # [17:04] <@tantek> do we have any evidence that any of the hListing examples in the wild are actually showing up with rich snippets in Google?
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  152. # [17:04] <tommorris> ChiefRA says that Google are doing something with it, but I'm reasonably sure they aren't using it for rich snippets.
  153. # [17:07] <ChiefRA> tantek tommorris they showing it in their Google Webmaster Tools on the Structured Markup Data AND the syntax can be verified in their Rich Snippets Tools.
  154. # [17:07] <ChiefRA> I have plenty accounts that have this highlighted in Google Webmaster Tools.
  155. # [17:07] <ChiefRA> this wasn't happening before, so they do something with it for sure. I failed to determine what so far.
  156. # [17:07] <tommorris> ChiefRA: can you document that? should probably write some test data and reverse engineer Google's parser.
  157. # [17:08] <@tantek> ChiefRA - can you upload screenshots of Google showing it in Google Webmaster Tools?
  158. # [17:08] <ChiefRA> tommorris I can do something even easier: I can ask one of them what's with it in WMT to get a straight answer.
  159. # [17:08] <ChiefRA> tantek, I can do that right now, hold on for 1 minute.
  160. # [17:08] <@tantek> perhaps you could add it to microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-implementations ?
  161. # [17:09] <ChiefRA> no, because this is sensitive client data.
  162. # [17:09] <ChiefRA> I don't want it publicly listed.
  163. # [17:09] <ChiefRA> let me see what I can do to trim out any identifiable info and I'll see.
  164. # [17:10] <@tantek> ok sorry
  165. # [17:10] <@tantek> we really need some sort of public example
  166. # [17:10] <tommorris> if you can make the page less sensitive and put it up on an example site (github etc.) then see how that looks in Google's tools, that'd be useful.
  167. # [17:11] <ChiefRA> I have posted public examples but only for implementation... so far, I couldn't identify any USE of it, but what I'm saying is this:
  168. # [17:11] <tommorris> implementation is a good first start. useful implementation is kinda the next step. ;)
  169. # [17:12] <ChiefRA> I have implemented it in big websites like Sothebys and Christies (see the examples I've posted today in the hListing examples). I need to be able to finish this draft to get full benefits from it.
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  171. # [17:13] <ChiefRA> once we're finished with it and we have all the problems sorted out, I'll be passing this on to Google Team in charge with this, to forther improve their search engine to better recognize this hListing format.
  172. # [17:13] <tommorris> ChiefRA: "implementation" in the context I was referring to it in my previous msg is parser.
  173. # [17:14] <tommorris> the cynic in me says that Google is probably pushing schema.org these days. :)
  174. # [17:14] <@tantek> tommorris: it's inconsistent
  175. # [17:14] <ChiefRA> tommorris I was referring to clarify the actual format a bit, you know what we discussed earlier today, to be able to improve and take full advantage of all properties of the hListing.
  176. # [17:14] <@tantek> from all evidence there is still conflict inside Google
  177. # [17:14] <@tantek> ChiefRA - independent of clarifying any actual format - the question is of *WHAT* Google supports *TODAY*
  178. # [17:15] <@tantek> not what they *could* support - in terms of hListing
  179. # [17:15] <ChiefRA> tantek: I'll show you in a second that :)
  180. # [17:15] <@tantek> any clarifications / improvements at this point should go into h-listing with microformats2
  181. # [17:15] <@tantek> patching hListing is probably not worth the time at this point
  182. # [17:15] <@tantek> unless you know of anyone else parsing it
  183. # [17:15] <ChiefRA> tantek: I politely disagree with you.
  184. # [17:15] * Quits: alanpear_ (~alanpearc@85.17.84.89.static-nl.cryptolayer.com) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
  185. # [17:16] <ChiefRA> that's because we need a format that is used "NOW" for the time being, and then on the future.
  186. # [17:16] <tommorris> tantek: earlier, I suggested that fixing the issues with hListing is best done by defining it in terms of backcompat with microformats2.
  187. # [17:16] <@tantek> ChiefRA - the special case rules for specific classic microformats are not worth maintaining - better to freeze them at their *current* level of implementation (parsing), and then put work into h-listing
  188. # [17:16] <ChiefRA> this format is used now by Google so I wish to take advantage from it now. :)
  189. # [17:16] <@tantek> ChiefRA - the point is that any changes you need are NOT used NOW
  190. # [17:16] <@tantek> thus we might as well make those fixes in h-listing
  191. # [17:16] <@tantek> tommorris: agreed
  192. # [17:17] <ChiefRA> will be if you help me finish them, as I will pass this on to the Google Team for enhancements of parsing them.
  193. # [17:17] <@tantek> I think tommorris has the right idea
  194. # [17:17] <@tantek> we should make the necessary improvements to h-listing
  195. # [17:17] <@tantek> and then backport those to hListing
  196. # [17:18] <Loqi> I agree
  197. # [17:18] <ChiefRA> tantek there are a few things not clear now with hListing. Agree to improve and create the h-Listing, but let's clear the missing points now for the existing format, BEFORE enhancing it.
  198. # [17:18] * Joins: mko (~mko@50.240.205.146)
  199. # [17:19] <ChiefRA> tantek read please the message I've left through Loqi 15 mins ago here in this channel, to get what I'm saying.
  200. # [17:19] <Loqi> dude
  201. # [17:19] <ChiefRA> and that's only one of them.
  202. # [17:20] <ChiefRA> I mean I have the capability to improve this microformat and I have the connections now to promote it faster into Google's active search results. All I'm saying is to take advantage of this. :)
  203. # [17:20] <@tantek> ChiefRA it looks like you added them to http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues#issues is that correct?
  204. # [17:21] <ChiefRA> tantek correct.
  205. # [17:21] <@tantek> just making sure - best would be if http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-issues#issues had the latest
  206. # [17:21] <@tantek> thank you - that's a big help
  207. # [17:21] <@tantek> agreed on timing and taking advantage of this
  208. # [17:21] <@tantek> hopefully we can do a quick turn on h-listing and hListing
  209. # [17:21] <ChiefRA> yup. I hope that too.
  210. # [17:21] <tommorris> tantek: happy to set up an experimental branch of mf2py to work on it when I have some spare mental bandwidth.
  211. # [17:22] <ChiefRA> the thing is that Google relies also on real life examples, and I can provide hundreds of them as of now (one week to implement the last versions of it)
  212. # [17:22] <ChiefRA> do you get my point now? :)
  213. # [17:23] <@tantek> yes - real life examples are VERY important, for both microformats process and adoption like from Google
  214. # [17:23] <ChiefRA> tantek tommorris I'll invite you temporary into a new channel, please accept.
  215. # [17:24] <@tantek> ChiefRA - also I'm on another telcon now and can't participate much
  216. # [17:24] <ChiefRA> no worries.
  217. # [17:25] <@tantek> tommorris: since you have a good understanding of microformats2 - could you start http://microformats.org/wiki/h-listing - perhaps based on http://microformats.org/wiki/h-product ?
  218. # [17:25] <@tantek> I believe they are similar enough that that shouldn't be too difficult, and we really should get something up there
  219. # [17:26] <tommorris> tantek: might be able to do so later.
  220. # [17:29] <ChiefRA> tommorris if you want to take a look at how Google sees hlisting let me know.
  221. # [17:29] <@tantek> thanks much tommorris
  222. # [17:32] <ChiefRA> tantek: if we're able to fix the missing parts of hlisting as fast as we can (no need of adding new features or smth like this) we will be able to have one more microformat complete and working format to compete the schema.org (beside hCard and the rest)
  223. # [17:33] <@tantek> agreed - and that's a good goal - can you add that to hlisting-issues ?
  224. # [17:33] <ChiefRA> the last sentence?
  225. # [17:34] <tommorris> ChiefRA: pop in as many issues as you can think of with as much documentation/examples as you can. I may try today and draft h-listing tonight so the more issues I have to work with, the better.
  226. # [17:34] * Quits: alanpearce (~alanpearc@141.0.61.154) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
  227. # [17:35] <ChiefRA> tantek tommorris ok, I'll add the last ones now on that page to have something to work on.
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  231. # [17:55] <Loqi> [[hlisting-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting-issues&diff=64680&oldid=64672&rcid=101043 * ChiefRA * (+1700) /* issues */ - added more inconsistencies to bring hListing to a definitive form
  232. # [17:56] <ChiefRA> tantek tommorris please have a look at the -issue list.
  233. # [17:56] <@tantek> thank you ChiefRA
  234. # [17:56] <ChiefRA> tantek my pleasure. We should setup a date to talk about all of these and definitivate them. I can do it even today if both of you agree.
  235. # [17:58] <tommorris> ChiefRA: both me and tantek prefer async communication. :)
  236. # [18:04] <ChiefRA> tommorris :) haha, ok :P we can do it this way then. Do you accept to do that by modifying the temporary page created specifically for this? The http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting-duplicated-for-discussions (and would it be better to understrike |if possible| the text you wish to remove so for the others to see what has been removed)
  237. # [18:04] <tommorris> just edit away to your hearts content - I'm pretty adept at reading wiki-diffs.
  238. # [18:05] <ChiefRA> ok then please tell me where I can find the Wiki Diffs for this particular page. I'll work your way as probably is agreed by tantek also.
  239. # [18:07] <tommorris> ChiefRA: 'history' at the top of the page. it shows a list of all the edits. can diff edits against each other. basically, for each issue, if you come up with a solution, try to put that all in one particular edit to the wiki, so we can evaluate each one separately.
  240. # [18:08] <ChiefRA> tommorris great thing, thanks. I've added all the problems I came uppon on for it, so now the -issues page is complete from my POV.
  241. # [18:09] <ChiefRA> one hads-up, I've modified the date on which these issues were added to be able to differentiate between them if later need to reffer to them in particular.
  242. # [18:10] <ChiefRA> heads-up*
  243. # [18:11] <tommorris> hmm, that's odd. I'll change the dates back. shouldn't need to refer to them by date.
  244. # [18:11] <@tantek> the dates should reflect when the issues were *first* raised
  245. # [18:11] <tommorris> if we do, we can give them IDs.
  246. # [18:11] <@tantek> that's important - to know how "old" an issue is
  247. # [18:11] <@tantek> regardless of refinement
  248. # [18:12] <ChiefRA> I just put 1 day before them, that's it.
  249. # [18:12] <@tantek> can also add (Updated: YYYY-MM-DD) if necessary
  250. # [18:12] <@tantek> but the date first raised should be kept
  251. # [18:12] <Loqi> [[hlisting-issues]] M http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=hlisting-issues&diff=64681&oldid=64680&rcid=101044 * TomMorris * (+0) all were raised today - correct date
  252. # [18:12] <ChiefRA> ok then.
  253. # [18:12] <@tantek> feel free to cite a line in IRC for the date first raised also
  254. # [18:12] <@tantek> since IRC logs are archived by date with # permalinks to statements
  255. # [18:12] <@tantek> see /topic for logs
  256. # [18:14] <ChiefRA> Thanks. So far we're good with what we have.
  257. # [18:15] <ChiefRA> tantek tommorris: what I wish from you guys, beside seeing the issues I've raised, is to parse by comparison the actual and the temporary hlisting page to view all the modifications I've done on the temporary page and make the neccesarry adjustments you see fit.
  258. # [18:16] <tommorris> ChiefRA: yep, just edit it in nice atomic blobs and I'll revert anything I find tough then we can discuss it.
  259. # [18:16] <ChiefRA> thanks.
  260. # [18:16] <tommorris> ChiefRA: on wikis, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD works surprisingly well, especially if sane people are applying it. (so should work *better* on microformats.org than on wikipedia)
  261. # [18:18] <ChiefRA> tommorris interesting concept, I didn't used this before so I'll take a look and hope to manage it :)
  262. # [18:22] <ChiefRA> from now on, I'll try to perform all the changes within one modification, to be easier to follow.
  263. # [18:24] <ChiefRA> ok guys GTG, see you in 2 hours. was a nice an productive chat today :)
  264. # [18:24] <tommorris> ChiefRA: one atomic change - like, if you are doing one thing, do it in one change. :)
  265. # [18:25] <tommorris> I'll unpick the changes either way, but it makes my life easier.
  266. # [18:26] <ChiefRA> got it :) waiting for your changes then as mine were depleted so far :D
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The end :)