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- # Session Start: Sun May 17 00:00:01 2015
- # Session Ident: #microformats
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- # [00:46] <KartikPrabhu> for marking up presentations should one use dt-published or more of an h-event markup? for this page: https://kartikprabhu.com/talks
- # [00:47] <aaronpk> good question and I want to know as well!
- # [00:48] <KartikPrabhu> because I don't recall the start and end times of these and they are all short ones anyway
- # [00:50] <KartikPrabhu> I was thinking h-entry > dt-published and p-location with h-adr for the place
- # [00:50] <KartikPrabhu> but that is close to a checkin https://indiewebcamp.com/checkin#Publish
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- # [00:53] <aaronpk> i don't even publish checkins yet so i don't think i'm qualified to talk about that :)
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- # [00:54] <KartikPrabhu> where does one put the name of the place in h-adr? or is it that p-location is the name and h-adr is the embedded address?
- # [00:54] <KartikPrabhu> or is p-name a thing in h-adr?
- # [00:56] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: just answered that questions about named address in the wiki
- # [00:57] <@tantek> s/questions/question
- # [00:57] <Loqi> tantek meant to say: KartikPrabhu: just answered that question about named address in the wiki
- # [00:57] <@tantek> now I'm curious how it is a question at all
- # [00:57] <@tantek> why is it not obvious that for an address with a name you should just use an h-card?
- # [00:57] <@tantek> and how can we make this more obvious?
- # [00:57] <KartikPrabhu> oh!
- # [00:57] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/h-adr
- # [00:57] <@tantek> right, "oh!" - so now help me understand why this is not obvious
- # [00:59] <KartikPrabhu> interesting. it is mentioned at the top of the wiki page :P I directly jumped to Properties section
- # [00:59] <KartikPrabhu> the thing is h-adr automatically parses a "name" property as shown in the wiki example
- # [01:00] <KartikPrabhu> so if the place name is the p-name in the h-card, what is the "name" property of the embedded h-adr supposed to be?
- # [01:01] <KartikPrabhu> i think the default "name" in h-adr but no explicit name is confusing
- # [01:07] <@tantek> yes that does sound confusing
- # [01:07] <KartikPrabhu> so if people jump straight to the example, like I did... the name question does arise
- # [01:07] <@tantek> got it
- # [01:10] <KartikPrabhu> i think below the example, it should be mentioned somehow that "name in the h-adr is a plain text form of the address, to markup the actual name of the place use h-card"
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- # [01:20] <Loqi> [[h-adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h-adr&diff=64964&oldid=64963&rcid=101340 * Tantek * (+169) /* Properties */ explicitly note lack of p-name and should use h-card instead
- # [01:20] <@tantek> good idea KartikPrabhu
- # [01:21] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: it might be good to clarify why a default name exists too
- # [01:22] <KartikPrabhu> it comes from impicit-name-parsing
- # [01:24] <Loqi> [[h-adr]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=h-adr&diff=64965&oldid=64964&rcid=101341 * Tantek * (+215) /* Example */ note why implicit name, use h-card for an explicitly named address
- # [01:24] <@tantek> right was just adding that too
- # [01:24] <@tantek> just after the example since that's where it shows up
- # [01:25] <@tantek> also added the point explicitly about no p-name property to the Properties section
- # [01:25] <@tantek> this question came up twice in the past week - including from a new person, wking, just in the past few days.
- # [01:25] <KartikPrabhu> yes I remembered that just as you said it was answered :)
- # [01:26] <KartikPrabhu> I think it looks much more clear now
- # [01:26] <@tantek> thanks - this helps a lot
- # [01:26] <@tantek> hmm - I see errant/misleading references to the mailing lists
- # [01:26] <@tantek> going to remove those
- # [01:29] <KartikPrabhu> tantek: just parsed the p-location h-card h-adr setup. looks good
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- # [02:27] <adiabatic> not that schema.org things and microformats things are mutually exclusive, butโฆwhy would I prefer to mark things up with microformats instead of schema.org things?
- # [02:28] <@tantek> adiabatic: because it's less work, and microformats are far minimal and well thought out
- # [02:28] <@tantek> as well based on existing standards, instead of making up whatever Google wants to make up (which they have a history of doing and abandoning)
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- # [02:31] <adiabatic> ah, ok.
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- # [03:15] <@tantek> adiabatic: some of this (Google's various efforts, that they've abandoned one after another) is documented in this blog post, along with others: http://microformats.org/2012/06/25/microformats-org-at-7
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- # [05:38] <Loqi> [[microformats2]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2&diff=64966&oldid=64958&rcid=101342 * Kylewm * (+0) /* Parsers */ alpha sort
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- # [06:08] <KartikPrabhu> would be nice to have a universal test-suite for microformats so that we can add data about how far along each parser is to the wiki
- # [06:11] <Vendan> I was working over one, but I've run into multiple issues with it
- # [06:11] <Vendan> including stuff that wasn't being tested, but should be
- # [06:11] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: why does your hosted parser sort the dictionary in a different way that mine/KevinMarks' ?
- # [06:12] <kylewm> don't know
- # [06:12] <kylewm> python 3?
- # [06:12] <KartikPrabhu> Vendan: that^ is also a potential problem. How does one compare the final output when even 2 runs of mf2py yield differently sorted results
- # [06:12] <Vendan> was basing it off of https://github.com/tobiastom/tests, but I'm not sure about certain things
- # [06:12] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: possible
- # [06:12] <kylewm> dict's .equals should handle that
- # [06:12] <Vendan> KartikPrabhu, in golang, I can do a deepequal that doesn't care about ordering of maps like that
- # [06:13] <Vendan> only issue is it gets too harsh, so if you add features, that counts as a fail
- # [06:13] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: but presumably a universal mf parser test would not use a dict yes?
- # [06:13] <Vendan> i.e. rel-urls support would currently cause fails
- # [06:13] <Vendan> not sure that that's an issue though
- # [06:13] <KartikPrabhu> Vendan: that is fine. because it does fail the rel-urls test
- # [06:14] <KartikPrabhu> maybe there should be a way to say "wrong parsing" vs "not supported feature"
- # [06:14] <kylewm> KartikPrabhu: Im not sure I understand the problem. Any language that compares maps should handle arbitrary ordering
- # [06:15] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: so you think it should be possible to just have a text or json file for final output and python can read both the HTML source and the expected output?
- # [06:15] <KartikPrabhu> and compare them? I guess that is what the tests in mf2py are currently doing?
- # [06:15] <Vendan> that's what the above tests are set up for
- # [06:16] <KartikPrabhu> oh ok! Vendan then it is just that those tests are out of date
- # [06:16] <KartikPrabhu> ?
- # [06:16] <Vendan> yeah
- # [06:16] <KartikPrabhu> I see
- # [06:16] <Vendan> and getting more so as time goes on, unfortunately
- # [06:17] <KartikPrabhu> tbh I am a programming n00b by most accounts so I don't really know how these things work :P
- # [06:17] <Vendan> see: https://travis-ci.org/andyleap/microformats
- # [06:18] <Vendan> that's my parser running against those tests, I've lost about 4 recently due to changes in the spec
- # [06:18] <KartikPrabhu> Vendan: maybe you could update the tests as a fork of https://github.com/tantek/tests and send PRs. I am sure tantek would appreciate it
- # [06:19] <KartikPrabhu> I would try but given my limited experience with testing code I am sure I'll mess something up
- # [06:22] <kylewm> glennjones is the author of the test suite
- # [06:22] <kylewm> tobiastom just processed them to split them into json and html files
- # [06:22] <kylewm> (that's not necessarily in reference to anything, just a general fyi)
- # [06:23] <KartikPrabhu> yeah i guessed as much :)
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- # [06:24] <Vendan> there's some of the test fixes so far
- # [06:25] <Vendan> I'm honestly developing the parser as I need it for my indieweb stuff at this point, unless someone else wants to use it
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- # [06:45] <Vendan> oh, you were gone
- # [06:45] <Vendan> there's some of the test fixes so far
- # [06:45] <Vendan> I'm honestly developing the parser as I need it for my indieweb stuff at this point, unless someone else wants to use it
- # [06:45] <Vendan> pushed some of my test fixes up at https://github.com/andyleap/tests
- # [06:45] <KartikPrabhu> Vendan: I re-read the logs :) my connection is a bit spotty
- # [06:45] <Vendan> ah, ok
- # [06:46] <KartikPrabhu> Vendan++ for updating tests.
- # [06:46] <Loqi> Vendan has 12 karma
- # [06:46] <Vendan> that's one reason I use znc on my vps to connect
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- # [22:34] <Loqi> [@bendiken] RT @graphityhq: http://Schema.org 2.0 vocabulary public release: http://blog.schema.org/2015/05/schema.html #SEO #RDF #LinkedData #microformats (http://twtr.io/zYSU7roSXU)
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- # [23:49] <Loqi> [@ustoll] RT @graphityhq: http://Schema.org 2.0 vocabulary public release: http://blog.schema.org/2015/05/schema.html #SEO #RDF #LinkedData #microformats (http://twtr.io/zYZL6bUmHc)
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- # Session Close: Mon May 18 00:00:01 2015
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