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  1. # Session Start: Wed May 27 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
  3. # [00:00] * Joins: fuzzyhorns (~fuzzyhorn@73.38.57.191)
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  5. # [00:12] <uf-wiki-visitor> hi all, quick question. Is it appropriate to combine microformat markup with microformat2 for compatibility? e.g. class="h-event vevent"
  6. # [00:26] <@tantek> uf-wiki-visitor: yes absolutely
  7. # [00:26] <gRegorLove> Hi uf-wiki-visitor. I've seen that and the parsers are intended to be backwards compatible, so it shouldn't be a problem. Personally I just use mf2.
  8. # [00:26] <@tantek> in fact it is recomended practice for the main object of the page!
  9. # [00:27] <gRegorLove> Oops
  10. # [00:27] <gRegorLove> Interesting. I didn't know that it was recommended, tantek.
  11. # [00:28] <@tantek> gRegorLove: for legacy consuming search engines that don't yet (AFAIK) consume native uf2
  12. # [00:29] <@tantek> uf-wiki-visitor: here are some examples: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#backward_compatible
  13. # [00:29] <@tantek> uf-wiki-visitor: you can also provide yours here if you'd like folks to take a look at it
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  29. # [01:38] <Vendan> hey tantek, <a href="test">test</a> inside a e-content, should that href be resolved?
  30. # [01:39] <Vendan> for the 'html' part of the e-content
  31. # [01:39] <@tantek> Vendan probably better to use different strings
  32. # [01:39] <@tantek> rather than test/test ;)
  33. # [01:39] <@tantek> but yes implied <base> - that's a great question!
  34. # [01:40] <Vendan> should it be <a href="http://example.org/test">test</a>
  35. # [01:40] <Vendan> according to the current spec, seems it shouldn't
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  38. # [01:40] <@tantek> right - which seems like it could pose problems for use-cases
  39. # [01:41] <@tantek> can you capture it as an issue? /wiki/microformats2-issues
  40. # [01:41] <@tantek> and use a different path other than /test ;)
  41. # [01:41] <@tantek> or different innertext
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  43. # [01:43] <Vendan> logically, I can see where it'd be useful/better that way, and the current microformats tests do expect it
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  45. # [01:43] <Vendan> just doesn't line up with the parsing spec itself
  46. # [01:44] <@tantek> do any of the parsers support that?
  47. # [01:49] <kylewm> I have done it as a post-processing step after mf2py is done
  48. # [01:49] <kylewm> part of mf2util https://github.com/kylewm/mf2util/blob/master/mf2util/util.py#L176
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  51. # [02:14] <Loqi> [@jasnell] https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/commits/remove-microformats-examples - 1 commits (http://twtr.io/zsCpM_o5Yo)
  52. # [03:18] * Joins: Tigt (48316a65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.49.106.101)
  53. # [03:19] <Tigt> pardon me folks, I was wondering if I could ask a few questions about h-feed
  54. # [03:21] <kylewm> of course, Tigt
  55. # [03:23] <Tigt> okay, first one is
  56. # [03:23] <Tigt> Is there some de facto size for its u-photo
  57. # [03:23] <Tigt> or at least some sort of minimum/maximum I should be mindful of
  58. # [03:25] <Tigt> I'm probably going to repurpose one of my shortcut icons in the <head> so it could be anywhere from 16x16 to 192x192
  59. # [03:29] <Tigt> ideally I could point it at an SVG but I doubt things are ready for that yet
  60. # [03:32] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: I don't understand the use-case for u-photo of a h-feed? Are you thinking that readers will use the u-photo?
  61. # [03:33] <Tigt> well, I didn't know myself, but it's on there: http://microformats.org/wiki/h-feed
  62. # [03:33] <Tigt> I figured it would be used like a favicon mostly
  63. # [03:33] <Tigt> like how feedly marks each feed provider with its own favicon
  64. # [03:34] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: since I doubt any h-feed readers use it that way yet you don't really need to worry about it
  65. # [03:34] <Tigt> that works
  66. # [03:35] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: also photo parsing at the moment does not use the new srcset and source stuff because again, no explicit use-cases
  67. # [03:35] <KartikPrabhu> but once they do, I'm sure your problem will be addresseed
  68. # [03:36] <Tigt> oh it's just a regular old link[rel="shortcut icon"]
  69. # [03:36] <Tigt> so they should be able to follow the href
  70. # [03:37] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: yeah I doubt if current h-feed readers are doing that. But even if they are, I really think they are not using the h-feed>u-photo
  71. # [03:37] <Tigt> my other question is, if I put an h-feed on all pages of my site, with the u-url pointing to the actual location of the feed, is that okay
  72. # [03:37] <Tigt> sort of like how the RSS <link> allows autodiscovery no matter what URL of a site you paste in
  73. # [03:38] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: see https://indiewebcamp.com/h-feed#partial_feeds for a possible answer though again I doubt if readers are using such an algorithm. Mainly they'll look for rel=feed links on the page
  74. # [03:39] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: on my site I have put the rel=feeds in the nav bar at the bottom which is common to all post pages: https://kartikprabhu.com/
  75. # [03:42] <Tigt> huh, interesting
  76. # [03:43] <Tigt> do mf parsers obey the <noscript> block?
  77. # [03:43] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: good point. I think it varies between parsers unfortunately
  78. # [03:43] <KartikPrabhu> hopefully will be standardized soon
  79. # [03:43] <Tigt> yeah that's what I was worried about
  80. # [03:43] <Tigt> because I can't imagine any of them /do/ run JavaScript
  81. # [03:44] <kylewm> the behavior for parsing <noscript> hasn't been specified explicitly, as far as I know
  82. # [03:44] <kylewm> no, definitely not
  83. # [03:44] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: mf parsers are not supposed to run javascript
  84. # [03:45] <Tigt> sounds about right
  85. # [03:53] <Tigt> okay, if I'm reading this correctly, if I don't have a page with full h-entries on each, I should use a separate u-uid h-feed page?
  86. # [03:55] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: that was the suggestion yes. I don't know if people use it and h-feed readers don't use that I think
  87. # [03:55] <Tigt> I can't say I'm big on making another separate feed file
  88. # [03:56] <Tigt> I'm marking up a webcomic site, so I really don't want to make the home page load each image for UX reasons
  89. # [03:56] <Tigt> so having a full h-entry for each update isn't ideal
  90. # [03:57] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: that is also how RSS works though
  91. # [03:57] <Tigt> but if it's what's got to be done, I'll do it
  92. # [03:57] <Tigt> yeah it's even worse
  93. # [03:58] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: do you expect your readers to use h-feed readers?
  94. # [03:59] <Tigt> oh, no
  95. # [03:59] <kylewm> wait, what's this about u-uid?
  96. # [03:59] <KartikPrabhu> don't worry about pre-mature optimisation. Even current h-feed readers don't use that algorithm
  97. # [03:59] <Tigt> I just figured for those out there using/experimenting with h-feed readers, what good practices I should be following
  98. # [03:59] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: https://indiewebcamp.com/h-feed#partial_feeds
  99. # [04:00] <KartikPrabhu> does Woodwind or monocle do this?
  100. # [04:00] <kylewm> well, afaik, Monocle subscribes to whatever URL you give it ... doesn't do feed discovery
  101. # [04:01] <kylewm> and also, Monocle (unlike Ww) fetches each individual permalink in an h-feed, so it's fine if the h-feed is partial
  102. # [04:02] <kylewm> Woodwind does not look for u-uid, but only because I just leanred about it ;)
  103. # [04:02] * aaronpk needs to spend some more time on monocle soon
  104. # [04:05] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: best practices haven't been fully-eshtablished yet because all h-feed readers are still experimental so I would recommend not worrying too much at the moment
  105. # [04:05] <Tigt> good point
  106. # [04:08] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: but your use-case is a good one
  107. # [04:08] <Tigt> oh, for future reference, is there some sort of validator/babelmark equivalent I could test my pages on
  108. # [04:09] <KartikPrabhu> for all microformats?
  109. # [04:09] <Tigt> or just some, I'm not picky
  110. # [04:10] <KartikPrabhu> this does some sort of validation: http://indiewebify.me/ and you can test your markup with parsers from http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2#Parsers
  111. # [04:10] <Tigt> wonderful, thank you very much
  112. # [04:10] <KartikPrabhu> note not all parsers in that list are the same
  113. # [04:11] <KartikPrabhu> i mean same level of microformat support
  114. # [04:11] <KartikPrabhu> php-mf2 and mf2py are more widely used, though the Go parser also seems good
  115. # [04:12] <Tigt> well, I guess it wouldn't be the web if consumers didn't differ from each other
  116. # [04:12] <KartikPrabhu> yup :)
  117. # [04:12] <KartikPrabhu> but people have been working on a standard suite of tests that parsers will test against so hopefully in the future all of them will be similarly compliant
  118. # [04:13] <Tigt> I'm assuming some of these don't understand mf2
  119. # [04:13] <KartikPrabhu> I think most of them do understand mf2 but maybe not all kinds of properties
  120. # [04:13] <KartikPrabhu> specially newly added/changed parsing rules
  121. # [04:14] <KartikPrabhu> hence I recommended php-mf2 and mf2py and Go , afaik those have been on top of new rules and features
  122. # [04:14] <Tigt> excellent
  123. # [04:16] <Tigt> you've been extraordinarily helpful, thank you so much
  124. # [04:16] <KartikPrabhu> sure thing Tigt
  125. # [04:18] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: also if you want to see how your feeds appear in current h-feed readers here are 2, http://reader.kylewm.com/ https://monocle.p3k.io/
  126. # [04:18] <Tigt> ah, even better
  127. # [04:18] <Vendan> Tigt, note, as much as I like the Go parser (being the author), I'm still implementing parts of the spec, so I wouldn't rely on it just yet :D
  128. # [04:19] <Tigt> noted
  129. # [04:19] <kylewm> Tigt++ thanks for asking good questions, let us know your webcomic when it's up!
  130. # [04:19] <Loqi> Tigt has 1 karma
  131. # [04:19] <Tigt> these sign-ins are the rel=me stuff, right
  132. # [04:19] <kylewm> yes
  133. # [04:20] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: see: http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth
  134. # [04:21] <Tigt> I feel like a traitor using Tumblr for this but baby steps, I guess
  135. # [04:21] <KartikPrabhu> Tigt: yes. baby steps
  136. # [04:21] <KartikPrabhu> babysteps++
  137. # [04:21] <Loqi> babysteps has 1 karma
  138. # [04:21] <kylewm> there are lots of good things about tumblr, particularly if you are using your own domain name
  139. # [04:23] <Tigt> yeah I snagged a pretty good one, just need to make sure I can hold onto it
  140. # [04:23] <Tigt> Tumblr and Cloudflare get into spats every so often
  141. # [04:24] <Tigt> ah, hm
  142. # [04:25] <Tigt> it looks like IndieAuth does not honor HTTP redirects
  143. # [04:25] <Tigt> at least the version Woodwind is using
  144. # [04:26] <KartikPrabhu> hmm I think it does honour permanent redirects 301 or something
  145. # [04:26] <KartikPrabhu> kylewm: ^^
  146. # [04:28] <Tigt> Tumblr's "link pages" functionality might do 302s to prevent caching issues for when the user changes them, then
  147. # [04:28] <Tigt> I'll have to hardcode it in
  148. # [04:28] <Tigt> there we go
  149. # [04:32] <kylewm> where was the 301 that wasn't working?
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  151. # [04:32] <Tigt> it's likely it's not a 301 at all
  152. # [04:33] <Tigt> I changed it, but let me set up another
  153. # [04:36] <Tigt> hm
  154. # [04:36] <Tigt> well it /appears/ to be a 301
  155. # [04:37] <Tigt> http://ti.gt/test
  156. # [04:45] <Tigt> I can set up one that points to an actual rel=me endpoint if you prefer
  157. # [04:46] <Tigt> it also appends this weird PHP session indicator fragment of #_=_
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  159. # [04:51] <Tigt> yet another reason for rel=canonical I guess
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  191. # [07:58] <Loqi> [@Root013] 構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）をテンプレートに組み込んでマークアップしたお話。 http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom #wordpress #google #SEO (http://twtr.io/zsik7duP_S)
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  211. # [10:39] <KevinMarks> hi glennjones
  212. # [10:39] <KevinMarks> I'm looking through the tests from mf2py pov
  213. # [10:40] <glennjones> Morning Kevin
  214. # [10:41] <KevinMarks> did we work out the white space issue?
  215. # [10:41] <KevinMarks> there is also a relative path issue
  216. # [10:42] <KevinMarks> eg https://github.com/microformats/tests/tree/master/tests/microformats-v2/rel%3Dalternate is getting http://example.com from somewhere magic
  217. # [10:42] <KevinMarks> s/example/tantek/
  218. # [10:42] <Loqi> KevinMarks meant to say: eg https://github.com/microformats/tests/tree/master/tests/microformats-v2/rel%3Dalternate is getting http://tantek.com from somewhere magic
  219. # [10:44] <glennjones> Yes I saw the white space that andy pointed out on http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#When_to_collapse_whitespace_in_properties
  220. # [10:45] <KevinMarks> should I fix the examples?
  221. # [10:45] <glennjones> Not sure I agree that this is the right answer, but I will update the tests so they dont collapse whitespace and add to the page why I think it wrong
  222. # [10:47] <glennjones> If you want to changes the v2 tests great, I working on the v1 at the moment and will change them with my next push to repo
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  225. # [10:52] <glennjones> Thats why paser APIs like https://pin13.net/mf2/ has a baseURL input when parsing HTML fragments
  226. # [10:53] <KevinMarks> right, but if so we need to add that to the tests somehow
  227. # [10:53] <KevinMarks> I sent a pull for the xfn and other rels if you want to review
  228. # [10:54] * Joins: joskar (~joskar@joskar.ros.sgsnet.se)
  229. # [10:59] <glennjones> So I need an interface mf2py that allows me to send a baseURL to make the test work. https://kylewm.com/services/mf2 does not, so I cannot send it the URL context to make the test work correctly
  230. # [11:03] <KevinMarks> you could change the test to say <base href="http://tantek.com"><link rel="updates alternate" type="application/atom+xml" href="updates.atom" />
  231. # [11:03] <KevinMarks> then kyle's thing works
  232. # [11:06] <Loqi> [[listing-examples]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=listing-examples&diff=64980&oldid=64666&rcid=101357 * Prakashpanchal856 * (+627) /* Examples */
  233. # [11:07] <KevinMarks> that's better than adding an extra way to pass the base URL in
  234. # [11:08] <glennjones> Thats an interesting idea, happy to add that to top of tests. Would like to stick to <base href="http://example.com"> if thats OK
  235. # [11:09] <glennjones> I known my parsers pick up <base> wonder if they all do!
  236. # [11:09] <KevinMarks> well, it will test them ;)
  237. # [11:09] <KevinMarks> just make sure the base matches what the json is expecting
  238. # [11:10] <glennjones> I will try it out on the v1 tests I am changing at the moment
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  243. # [11:46] <KevinMarks> this whitespace is ugly
  244. # [12:01] <glennjones> Not collapsing whitespace makes any value taken from a block of HTML unusable in the real world use case. Label in the http://testrunner-47055.onmodulus.net/test/microformats-v2/h-adr/geo/ test is an good example of something I have used in the past and will no longer be of any use to me.
  245. # [12:12] <KevinMarks> though actually label is supposed to have newlines in , per vcard
  246. # [12:12] <KevinMarks> "The property can also include a "LABEL" parameter to present a delivery address label for the address. Its value is a plain-text string representing the formatted address. Newlines are encoded as \n, as they are for property values."
  247. # [12:13] <KevinMarks> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6350#section-6.3.1
  248. # [12:15] <KevinMarks> I have a pile of changes in a pull request for you, working backwards though my test cases for mf2py
  249. # [12:18] <glennjones> Great the more input the better the test will be for all us
  250. # [12:24] * Quits: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
  251. # [12:24] <glennjones> The issue I have with returning whitespace and returns from parsed HTML is that it was added to make the code understandable and was not meant to be used/read outside of that context.
  252. # [12:28] <KevinMarks> yes, especially in "name"
  253. # [12:30] * Joins: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130)
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  257. # [13:24] <glennjones> KevinMarks I have merged in the pull request. Got a little complex as I had changed the directory structure. Hopfully its all there now. I will push changes to test server in a minute
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  260. # [13:32] <@KevinMarks__> Glenn, have you seen http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/
  261. # [13:33] <@KevinMarks__> I think your test harness is close to the same thing for microformats
  262. # [13:34] * Quits: joskar (~joskar@joskar.ros.sgsnet.se) (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
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  264. # [13:34] * dariusdunlap_ is now known as dariusdunlap
  265. # [14:03] <glennjones> Babelmark looks like a nice tool, interpreting a spec is hard, often comparing implementations helps find outstanding issues and allows you to coalesce around one understanding more quickly. Thats why I built it
  266. # [14:07] * Quits: pfefferle (~pfefferle@213.144.11.130) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
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  268. # [14:27] <Vendan> I don't think we should just have a <base> on all the tests.
  269. # [14:28] <Vendan> if a parser doesn't support a baseurl parameter, that's it's fault, not the tests. Most pages that I've seen don't use <base>
  270. # [14:28] * Joins: benborges (~benborges@2a02:a03f:1658:6c00:8e73:6eff:fe75:52ef)
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  273. # [14:35] <glennjones> Maybe adding <base> to all the tests is overkill. We could keep it down just to 3 or 4 tests where relative URL resolving is been tested?
  274. # [14:49] * Joins: csarven (~csarven@84-73-123-134.dclient.hispeed.ch)
  275. # [15:03] <aaronpk> there definitely need to be tests without <base> since most real pages don't have it, need to be able to test all code paths
  276. # [15:15] <Vendan> ^ not testing real life usecases because a parser is messed up isn't the way to go...
  277. # [15:15] <Loqi> [@souiszak] "WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ : Root-013" http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom (http://twtr.io/ztP3o2N_x5)
  278. # [15:15] <Vendan> that being said, we should test <base> as well, but we need to test without it
  279. # [15:20] <glennjones> Maybe Kevin can look at providing an API with baseURL
  280. # [15:21] * Joins: elf-pavlik (~elf-pavli@lorea/elf)
  281. # [15:29] <Loqi> [@SEO_news2015] WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013 http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom (http://twtr.io/ztQGoZSyzC)
  282. # [15:38] <Loqi> [@taaboolove] WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013 http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://twtr.io/ztR92ZYKGG)
  283. # [15:57] * Quits: elf-pavlik (~elf-pavli@lorea/elf) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
  284. # [16:03] <Loqi> [@nandemopr] 【情報】WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013　http://xcontents.x.fc2.com/jump2.html?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwebsite-homepage.com%2Fwordpress%2Fcustomize%2Fmicroformats-hatom (http://twtr.io/ztTLRqdRGp)
  285. # [16:07] <Loqi> [@bichiko_seo] WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013 http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://twtr.io/ztThKA9Bxs)
  286. # [16:07] <Loqi> [@akio0911_news] WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013 http://website-homepage.com/wordpress/customize/microformats-hatom?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://twtr.io/ztThjp2AmQ)
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  292. # [17:02] <kylewm> I'll add baseUrl to my mf2 endpoint
  293. # [17:14] * Joins: KartikPrabhu (~kartik@108-69-72-147.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net)
  294. # [17:16] <glennjones> kylewm: Thanks a lot that would help us test all the parsers equal baseline
  295. # [17:18] * Quits: dariusdunlap (~dariusdun@ip-69-27-182-58.coastside.net) (Quit: dariusdunlap)
  296. # [17:22] <kylewm> ok I think it should work now via POST params https://kylewm.com/services/mf2
  297. # [17:22] <kylewm> it was supposed to handle doc+base url before, but I think it was choking when the GET params were too long
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  303. # [18:03] <glennjones> kylewm: that work fine added two new test just for relative URLs - will look at adding a testrunner mode that does not flag "rel-urls": {}, as an error, so you can get more out of the results
  304. # [18:04] * Quits: chiui (~chiui@h-213.61.228.26.host.de.colt.net) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
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  307. # [18:36] <@KevinMarks__> Kylewm did you see the test running I added to my mf2py fork?
  308. # [18:37] <@KevinMarks__> Could do that, but with the main tests repository as the submodule
  309. # [18:46] <Loqi> [@4SEO1] WordPressの構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）マークアップ | Root-013: 構造化データ（http://microformats.org hAtom）を… http://4-seo.net/news/story/6902/ (http://twtr.io/ztgyAHavSw)
  310. # [18:47] <@tantek> well ok then
  311. # [18:52] * Joins: KartikPrabhu (~kartik@nsit-dhcp-205-208-056-199.uchicago.edu)
  312. # [18:53] <kylewm> glennjones: i can add a flag to my side to strip rel-urls
  313. # [18:53] <kylewm> that might be easier?
  314. # [18:57] <kylewm> KevinMarks__: wow, that's awesome! I would love to merge that into the main branch
  315. # [19:02] <@KevinMarks__> I fixed a lot of tests, but it is showing things that aren't implemented too
  316. # [19:02] <@KevinMarks__> See issues
  317. # [19:05] <@KevinMarks__> Tantek: should we revisit whitespace preservation?
  318. # [19:05] <@tantek> KevinMarks - it sounds like it - at least for pre/post trimming
  319. # [19:05] <@tantek> which may be sufficient to fix all issues
  320. # [19:05] <@tantek> I think that's what we had settled on in the v1 days
  321. # [19:06] <@tantek> did you add an issue like I asked?
  322. # [19:06] * @tantek checks http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-issues
  323. # [19:06] <@tantek> hmm
  324. # [19:07] <glennjones> kylewm: half way through adding some to testrunner, but it would be much clearner if you added flag to your side to strip rel-urls
  325. # [19:07] <Loqi> [[microformats2-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-issues&diff=64981&oldid=64840&rcid=101358 * Tantek * (+217) dfnish, sections
  326. # [19:07] * Joins: KevinMarks_ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
  327. # [19:08] * ChanServ sets mode: +o KevinMarks_
  328. # [19:08] * @tantek meant http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues
  329. # [19:08] <Vendan> should we add something like strict=true?
  330. # [19:09] * Quits: @KevinMarks__ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
  331. # [19:11] <kylewm> glennjones: OK done
  332. # [19:11] <@KevinMarks_> Adding parameters is not a good idea
  333. # [19:12] <kylewm> KevinMarks_: adding parameters to the parser or the test suite?
  334. # [19:13] * Joins: KevinMarks__ (~yaaic@c-67-164-14-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
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  339. # [19:21] <@KevinMarks__> If you want examples, look at the diffs I put in th tests last ni
  340. # [19:25] <@tantek> nope that was a separate issue
  341. # [19:26] <@tantek> KevinMarks,kylewm can you add the whitespace issue to http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues ? my suggested fix is going to be to "add trimming from start end" - pretty sure that will fix all current use-cases (and back compat)
  342. # [19:32] <@tantek> ping me when you've added the issue to the wiki so we can properly propose/discuss/document a resolution there. thanks!
  343. # [19:39] <glennjones> Kylewm: that’s done your now, I think Vendan: idea of using a “strict” parameter is more flexible and would allow you try out other changes without creating errors.
  344. # [19:40] <@tantek> I think the "strict" param is a bad idea because it is quickly lost "whose dfn of strict?" "what year?" etc.
  345. # [19:40] <@tantek> can you please file issues instead of hacking workaround into code / test suites?
  346. # [19:56] * Quits: Erkan_Yilmaz (~Erkan_Yil@dslb-188-098-067-125.188.098.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Changing host)
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  348. # [20:06] <KevinMarks> the rel-urls thing si that the tests reflect the parsing page, not the updated stuff
  349. # [20:07] <@tantek> yeah that's on me to update - sorry will do today
  350. # [20:08] <KevinMarks> so my test harness on mf2py currently deletes the rel-urls object before comparing
  351. # [20:27] <KevinMarks> wiht glenn's changes too, down to 37 failures in mf2py (from 80 last night)
  352. # [20:44] <kylewm> hmm, I wish Travis-CI would give us one of those nice charts
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  358. # [21:22] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64982&oldid=64792&rcid=101359 * Kevin Marks * (+2836) /* whitespace collapsing revisited */
  359. # [21:22] <KevinMarks> tantek, issue posted
  360. # [21:29] <@KevinMarks__> Glennjones did I capture your issue too?
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  363. # [21:57] <glennjones> KevinMarks: I am going to pick up adding issues and ideas to wiki first thing tomorrow
  364. # [21:59] <KevinMarks> OK. I'll have another look at what mf2py is doing later on
  365. # [22:02] * Quits: dariusdunlap (~dariusdun@ip-69-27-182-58.coastside.net) (Quit: Stepping away...)
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  367. # [22:31] <@tantek> thanks KevinMarks
  368. # [22:43] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64983&oldid=64982&rcid=101360 * Tantek * (+951) /* whitespace collapsing revisited */ add option to trim leading/trailing, separate choose from vs. orthogonal choices, add -1/0/+1
  369. # [22:43] <@tantek> added some reponses and more options KevinMarks
  370. # [22:43] <@tantek> http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#whitespace_collapsing_revisited
  371. # [22:46] <KevinMarks> leading/trailing isn't the issue I've seen
  372. # [22:47] <KevinMarks> it's the stuff inbetween spanning properties
  373. # [22:47] <@tantek> in typical uses those are collapsed at display time
  374. # [22:47] <KevinMarks> right, so they're invisible metadata
  375. # [22:48] <Loqi> [[microformats2-parsing-issues]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues&diff=64984&oldid=64983&rcid=101361 * Tantek * (+304) /* implied properties when an explicit class is provided */ note old consensus, new proposal based on new use-case
  376. # [22:49] <@tantek> KevinMarks: only sometimes
  377. # [22:49] <@tantek> that's why you can't depend on anything generic to collapse them
  378. # [22:50] <KevinMarks> 80:20 they're invisible
  379. # [22:50] <KevinMarks> you could use <pre>
  380. # [22:51] <@tantek> except white-space collapsing is a presentational thing
  381. # [22:51] <@tantek> so we'd have to check white-space property :/
  382. # [22:51] <@tantek> CSS property
  383. # [22:53] <@tantek> !tell kylewm FYI: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_properties_when_an_explicit_class_is_provided
  384. # [22:53] <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
  385. # [22:54] * Quits: glennjones (~glennjone@cpc18-brig15-2-0-cust225.3-3.cable.virginm.net) (Quit: glennjones)
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  389. # [23:45] <KartikPrabhu> collapsing whitespace in name is going to completely mess up the classification of notes. I thought name = content.value implied that the post was a note
  390. # [23:45] <@tantek> KartikPrabhu: the algorithm is a bit more than that
  391. # [23:46] <@tantek> the reason to preserve whitespace in notes - e.g. p-content is for other reasons: http://indiewebcamp.com/note#Whitespace
  392. # [23:46] <KartikPrabhu> yeah saw that
  393. # [23:47] <KartikPrabhu> but if mf parsers remove whitespace from the name property then this https://indiewebcamp.com/notes#Note_Type_Algorithm will get a whole lot messier
  394. # [23:47] <KevinMarks> add comments to the wiki, KartikPrabhu
  395. # [23:47] <@tantek> not necessarily - look at the specific options being proposed / discussed
  396. # [23:48] <@tantek> there is "remove all whitespace" proposal
  397. # [23:48] <KevinMarks> value also seems to accrete whitespace
  398. # [23:48] <@tantek> s/there is/there is no
  399. # [23:48] <Loqi> tantek meant to say: there is no "remove all whitespace" proposal
  400. # [23:48] <@tantek> KevinMarks no you're confused - value is no different
  401. # [23:48] <@tantek> than plain string values
  402. # [23:48] <KevinMarks> I proposed removing it from value and name
  403. # [23:48] <KevinMarks> at least I thought I did
  404. # [23:48] <@tantek> KevinMarks - as you said - see wiki for follow-ups on that
  405. # [23:48] <@tantek> removing from "value" makes no sense
  406. # [23:49] <@tantek> because "value" is just another expression of what is already in property string values
  407. # [23:49] <KevinMarks> looking at the places where the tests differed from the process
  408. # [23:51] <KevinMarks> https://github.com/microformats/tests/commit/4c9690b53b0a2f40440abac8e609c51ac7dd6d56
  409. # Session Close: Thu May 28 00:00:00 2015

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