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  1. # Session Start: Sun Jul 12 00:00:00 2015
  2. # Session Ident: #microformats
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  5. # [01:29] <Loqi> [@stko] @jasonbrennan Were you thinking of this? http://microformats.org/wiki/measure (http://twtr.io/11XPVt3U9fH)
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  17. # [04:35] <Loqi> [@ProjectPeachUK] We've #played with #microformats. Love the #idea of #marking up our #business data to #machines as well as #humans! #pickupaRT #DBFY (http://twtr.io/11XfBmEDjTj)
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  31. # [10:53] <Loqi> [@neogeografen] De DK Mapillary frivillige har fotog. ca. 12500 km - samlet er der ca 207000 km veje/stier i DK - så afsted med dig http://www.microformats.dk/2015/03/04/ideforslag-det-rullende-brugerpanel-kunne-skabe-faelles-billeder-og-geodata/ (http://twtr.io/11YEAmmZpN8)
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  39. # [16:28] <barnabywalters> good morning!
  40. # [16:28] <barnabywalters> tantek, I’d appreciate your thoughts on my comments on https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/64
  41. # [16:29] <barnabywalters> Having spent a long time away from the parsing spec, I’m not sure if the confusion I’m having is due to unfamiliarity, or actual problems exposed by looking at it with a fresh eye
  42. # [16:31] <tommorris> tantek, barnabywalters: is it affecting other implementations?
  43. # [16:31] <barnabywalters> tommorris: not sure, I’ve been fixing some bugs in php-mf2 and have found potentially confusing language in the parsing spec
  44. # [16:33] <barnabywalters> specifically, the behaviour I was fixing was not clearly specified anywhere, and in reading it I found language which seems to imply that parsing a property-nested microformat should result in two items in the parent microformat’s property array
  45. # [16:35] <@tantek> barnabywalters: looking at it
  46. # [16:36] <@tantek> barnabywalters: looks like you resolved https://github.com/indieweb/php-mf2/issues/64 ?
  47. # [16:36] <@tantek> what’s the specific question? I thought I was reporting a really obvious bug
  48. # [16:37] <barnabywalters> tantek: yep, thanks for reporting it! The issue itself is resolved, the problem (as I pointed out in comments on that issue) is that the mf2 parsing spec does not clearly specify the correct behaviour
  49. # [16:38] <barnabywalters> and then, reading it more closely, it seems to imply that parsing a property-nested microformat should result in two items in the parent’s corresponding property list, one for the bare property (a string) and a nested microformat structure in addition to that
  50. # [16:39] <@tantek> by property list is that the { } structure?
  51. # [16:40] <barnabywalters> by property list I am referring to the list of values associated with a property name in a microformat structure
  52. # [16:40] <@tantek> array then?
  53. # [16:40] <barnabywalters> e.g. "name": ["value 1", "value 2" •••]
  54. # [16:40] <@tantek> [ ]
  55. # [16:40] <barnabywalters> yep
  56. # [16:40] <@tantek> I always call the [ ] things arrays because that’s well established naming in CS for the [ ] structure
  57. # [16:41] <barnabywalters> fair enough, I’m always flipping between python and PHP, which have very different naming and overlapping use-cases :)
  58. # [16:41] <barnabywalters> so I tend to use python terminology as it’s more precise
  59. # [16:41] <barnabywalters> than PHP’s, that is
  60. # [16:42] <barnabywalters> but that is not very relevant
  61. # [16:42] <@tantek> the value vs. html things go into the { } structure, not [ ]
  62. # [16:42] <barnabywalters> yep, that is not what I am confused about
  63. # [16:43] <Loqi> [[microformats2-linting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-linting&diff=65127&oldid=65126&rcid=101508 * Tantek * (-21) created published updated
  64. # [16:44] <Loqi> [[microformats2-linting]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-linting&diff=65128&oldid=65127&rcid=101509 * Tantek * (+393) -1 linting any <article>
  65. # [16:44] <barnabywalters> the fact that property parsing and nested microformat parsing are separate steps in the spec makes it sound like a parsing a property-nested microformat should result in two items in the parent’s array for the property the microformat is nested under
  66. # [16:45] <@tantek> tommorris: ok updated http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-linting
  67. # [16:45] <@tantek> barnabywalters: huh that is weird and no one else seems to have had that interpretation. regardless I’d like to clarify the spec if I can.
  68. # [16:45] <barnabywalters> e.g. <div class="h-entry"><span class="p-author h-card">Author</span></div> would result in a h-entry mf with 'author': ['Author', { nested mf value }]
  69. # [16:45] <@tantek> also - it makes no sense for there to be two values in an array for the same source of data
  70. # [16:46] <tommorris> tantek: thanks
  71. # [16:46] <@tantek> since every thing in a [ ] is a different piece of data from the author
  72. # [16:46] <@tantek> so to have two things show up in a [ ] that come from *one* thing the author wrote is only confusing
  73. # [16:46] <@tantek> not sure how that could be interepeted as valid in any interpretation
  74. # [16:46] <barnabywalters> tantek: agreed that it makes no sense and is likely not a big problem, but looking at the spec with fresh eyes that is how I’m reading it
  75. # [16:49] <barnabywalters> it’s quite obvious from examples how property nested microformats should work, but there’s nothing in the spec which explains that, having parsed a tree for properties, when parsing for child microformats, their values should replace the previously parsed property values
  76. # [16:56] <barnabywalters> tommorris: I just checked mf2py, if the version on kartikprabhu.com is up to date then it has a similar nested e- html problem as php-mf2 did. Raising issue now.
  77. # [16:57] <tommorris> thanks
  78. # [16:59] <@tantek> barnabywalters: it does? huh I thought I checked the latest of the other parsers
  79. # [16:59] <@tantek> I think kylewm’s is newer (deployment of mf2py)
  80. # [17:00] <barnabywalters> tantek: mf2py gets it more correct than php-mf2 did, but still wrong as per kartikprabhu.com — the value of value is a nested dictionary with value and html keys, rather than the html key being added to the root of the nested structure
  81. # [17:00] <barnabywalters> is there a mf2py testing field on kylewm’s site?
  82. # [17:01] <@tantek> I thought there was yes
  83. # [17:01] <tommorris> I should update the heroku instance
  84. # [17:01] <@tantek> I think it’s on the wiki
  85. # [17:01] <Loqi> +1
  86. # [17:01] <tommorris> but not right now. ;-)
  87. # [17:02] <barnabywalters> tantek: I can’t see it, http://microformats.org/wiki/mf2py only links to a version on heroku for URLs, and raw text entry on kartikprabhu.com
  88. # [17:02] * tommorris opens https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/49
  89. # [17:03] <@tantek> barnabywalters: we have our own DRY violation problem :)
  90. # [17:03] <@tantek> try the /microformats2#Parsers
  91. # [17:03] <barnabywalters> tantek: ha ha ha, indeed
  92. # [17:04] <barnabywalters> yep, we have a threefold DRY violation issue, because there’s also http://microformats.org/wiki/parsers
  93. # [17:04] <@tantek> yeah I minimized there a bit and linked from there to /microformats2#Parsers
  94. # [17:04] <@tantek> that was the first violation I found
  95. # [17:05] <@tantek> the key is making the info accessible
  96. # [17:05] <@tantek> rather than having to click through 3 pages or something to find it
  97. # [17:05] <@tantek> hence the flatter list of all the implementations on /microformats2 made more sense to update
  98. # [17:05] <barnabywalters> agreed, however I would expect the most detailed information to be on the project page
  99. # [17:06] <barnabywalters> I’ll at least copy the full list there
  100. # [17:07] <Loqi> [[mf2py]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=mf2py&diff=65130&oldid=64548&rcid=101511 * Barnabywalters * (+137) Added list of live implementations
  101. # [17:08] <barnabywalters> added it and moved kylewm’s to the top as it offers both textentry and URL, and is apparently up to date
  102. # [17:10] <@tantek> agreed on “would expect the most detailed information to be on the project page” yet that’s in contrast with the “don’t have to click too much to find the info"
  103. # [17:10] <@tantek> so we end up with a DRY content problem
  104. # [17:12] <barnabywalters> yeah, in theory this is what transclusion should solve. Does mediawiki do transclusion, other than templates? E.g. “embed the examples section from [[mf2py]] on [[microformats2]]”
  105. # [17:13] <barnabywalters> nope, looks like (without extensions) templates are the only way to do this
  106. # [17:13] <@tantek> yeah
  107. # [17:28] <tommorris> barnabywalters: nope, only templates
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  113. # [18:20] <KevinMarks> unmung.com has a linkable type-in html field (it makes the worlds ugliest URLs though)
  114. # [18:21] <KevinMarks> eg http://www.unmung.com/?html=%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cdiv+class%3D%22e-content%22%3E%3Cp%3EHello%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%0D%0A%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-entry%22%3E%3Cdiv+class%3D%22h-card+e-content%22%3E%3Cp%3EHello+hcard%3C%2Fp%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E%3C%2Fdiv%3E&pretty=on
  115. # [18:21] <KevinMarks> (that uses mf2py)
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  117. # [18:29] <kylewm> thank you for filing that issue barnabywalters, I thought for sure I had already done that :embarrassed:
  118. # [18:30] <barnabywalters> kylewm: no problem! My embarrassment should be far greater for not having dealt with the issue for such a long time :)
  119. # [18:30] <barnabywalters> and mf2py was much less wrong than php-mf2 ;)
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  139. # [21:13] <Loqi> [@scriptzteam] IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (http://twtr.io/11Z9uWUwZhR)
  140. # [22:09] <Loqi> [[comment-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=comment-brainstorming&diff=65131&oldid=53376&rcid=101512 * Tantek * (+149) /* Use case for same page u-in-reply-to */ note use-case currently theoretical
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  151. # [22:58] <Loqi> [[comment-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=comment-brainstorming&diff=65132&oldid=65131&rcid=101513 * Csarven * (+116) Asked for clarification/relevancy on "indieweb"
  152. # [23:00] <@tantek> yeah no need for indieweb specific reference there
  153. # [23:00] <@tantek> not sure when that got added
  154. # [23:00] <@tantek> will fix
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  159. # [23:28] <Loqi> [[comment-brainstorming]] http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=comment-brainstorming&diff=65133&oldid=65132&rcid=101514 * Tantek * (+450) remove reference to "indieweb" from issue / idea - was not relevant to the idea. clarify comment on its own page, vs in a list, vs both.
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  164. # [23:46] <Loqi> [@scriptzteam] IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (http://twtr.io/11ZPf0C60xb)
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  169. # [23:53] <Loqi> [@scriptzteam] IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (http://twtr.io/11ZQLEGNAcs)
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  171. # [23:54] <Loqi> [@scriptzteam] IP.Blog 2.6: SEO Improvements and Microformats - http://newz.scriptz-team.info/IPS-News-And-Updates/078819-IP-Blog-2-6-SEO-Improvements-and-Microformats.html (http://twtr.io/11ZQNf2GCeU)
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