/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2013-09-24 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Tue Sep 24 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  21. # [07:53] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang opened pull request #348: Import IDL tests for Geolocation API (master...submission/zqzhang/geo-idl-test-suite) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/348
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  24. # [07:53] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang opened pull request #349: Import Geolocation API Test Suite (master...submission/zqzhang/geo-test-suite) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/349
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  27. # [07:54] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang opened pull request #350: Import test cases from DVCS for Device Orientation Event (master...submission/zqzhang/orientation-event) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/350
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  52. # [15:17] <jgraham> tobie, darobin: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/3136946 Seems reasonable?
  53. # [15:21] <darobin> jgraham: it seems fine to me
  54. # [15:22] <darobin> I mean, I presume you don't plan to develop it further into a real templating language, right?
  55. # [15:23] <jgraham> Not if I can help it :)
  56. # [15:24] <darobin> good, good
  57. # [15:24] <darobin> it it's a risk, it's likely worth just reusing an existing simple one
  58. # [15:24] <darobin> otherwise, it's fine
  59. # [15:24] <darobin> (which I reckon it is)
  60. # [15:25] <jgraham> You think it's a risk, or you think it's fine?
  61. # [15:25] <tobie> I'm not sure I understand the syntax for domain
  62. # [15:25] <darobin> fine!
  63. # [15:25] <darobin> tobie: it expands the array
  64. # [15:25] <darobin> oh wait, no
  65. # [15:25] <jgraham> tobie: Right, there is a list of domains for each protocol
  66. # [15:25] <darobin> it picks the default?
  67. # [15:26] <jgraham> Oh, sorry
  68. # [15:26] <jgraham> Domain
  69. # [15:26] <jgraham> I thought "port"
  70. # [15:26] * darobin didn't read that line till the end
  71. # [15:26] <jgraham> There is a known list of subdomains
  72. # [15:26] <darobin> maybe it shows that I'm talking on the phone at the same time
  73. # [15:26] <tobie> port makes sense.
  74. # [15:26] <tobie> darobin: no you're not.
  75. # [15:27] <darobin> especially with a cigar at the end of a long day
  76. # [15:27] <darobin> tobie: I was when I read it :)
  77. # [15:27] <tobie> well, that shows I wasn't listening.
  78. # [15:28] <jgraham> subdomains = [u"www", u"www1", u"www2", u"天気の良い日", u"élève"]
  79. # [15:28] <tobie> u?
  80. # [15:28] <jgraham> Python thing, I was just copying
  81. # [15:28] <tobie> k
  82. # [15:28] <tobie> :)
  83. # [15:28] <jgraham> So you basically write {{domain[name_of_subdomain]}}
  84. # [15:28] <jgraham> and it gives you back the full domain
  85. # [15:29] <jgraham> Which is subdomain.host if host has subdomain set up
  86. # [15:29] <jgraham> or subdomain.w3c-test.org (or some other fallback server) if not
  87. # [15:30] <tobie> how is that better than: www.{{host}} ?
  88. # [15:33] <jgraham> {{host}} is typically localhost
  89. # [15:33] <jgraham> If you didn't edit /etc/hosts www.{{host}} won't resolve
  90. # [15:33] <jgraham> But {{domains[www]}} will
  91. # [15:33] <tobie> how so? (brain hurts)
  92. # [15:33] <jgraham> Beacuse the configuration allows you to specify a fallback server
  93. # [15:33] <jgraham> Typically w3c-test.org
  94. # [15:34] <jgraham> So at startup it tries to resolve all the subdomains
  95. # [15:34] <tobie> ok, I see.
  96. # [15:34] <jgraham> and if they don't resolve it uses the fallback instead
  97. # [15:35] <tobie> ok. I see.
  98. # [15:35] <tobie> I feel like we're somewhat at the wrong abstraction level (which is why I'm confused).
  99. # [15:36] <tobie> I feel like I'd want something like:
  100. # [15:36] <jgraham> You might need to be more concrete
  101. # [15:36] <tobie> yeah, trying
  102. # [15:37] <jgraham> OK :)
  103. # [15:38] <tobie> current_domain / other_subdomain_ascii / other_subdomain_utf8 / other_subdomain_xxx
  104. # [15:38] <tobie> something like that.
  105. # [15:38] <tobie> (with suffixes that are more correct and make more sense)
  106. # [15:39] <jgraham> Well, we could do that
  107. # [15:39] <jgraham> But it sort of seems like you just have twice as many things to learn
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  110. # [15:40] <tobie> well, it would be more consistant with how ports work
  111. # [15:41] <tobie> s/ports/your proposed solution for handling ports/
  112. # [15:43] <jgraham> Well, I am happy to change the domain thing if there's general agreement that it's a good idea
  113. # [15:43] <jgraham> Adding a map from labels to concrete subdomains doesn't seem hard
  114. # [15:44] <jgraham> So maybe suggest it on the list? But I suppose I will need to mention this on the list first so that people can comment, or at least know about it
  115. # [15:44] <jgraham> Since it is more or less a find/replace to change, it doesn't seem super-important to get right now though
  116. # [15:45] <tobie> agreed.
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  122. # [16:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger closed pull request #308: Make the last argument to DOMImplementation.createDocument optional. (master...createDocument-optional) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/308
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  125. # [16:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/d1486786dfac...306168301af4
  126. # [16:23] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master b41a05d Ms2ger: Make the last argument to DOMImplementation.createDocument optional....
  127. # [16:23] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 3061683 Ms2ger: Merge pull request #308 from Ms2ger/createDocument-optional...
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  134. # [16:58] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger opened pull request #351: Make the DOM and HTML idlharness tests more robust. (master...robust-idlharness) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/351
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  140. # [17:11] <[1]botte> Hi, just testing my side of the chat - Brian Otte from CableLabs
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  151. # [18:01] <krisk> Hello
  152. # [18:02] <kkershaw> Howdy
  153. # [18:03] * jgraham waves
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  155. # [18:03] <krisk> I think it would be good to chat about canvas test suite
  156. # [18:04] <krisk> MikeSmith (TM) loaded the tests in to the testrunner and posted some results
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  158. # [18:04] <krisk> plh also asked the list a few questions
  159. # [18:05] <botte> I have a couple questions about html testing, they can wait till the other topics get covered.
  160. # [18:05] <krisk> OK
  161. # [18:07] <krisk> Beyond the failures that plh/mike posted where interop is a problem
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  163. # [18:08] <krisk> I think it would be good to also enumerate 'new' canvas items that are 'at risk' and/or don't have interop or have been implemented
  164. # [18:09] <krisk> Finally I think we would need a few more tests for items that don't have tests but are in the spec and have been implemented
  165. # [18:09] <Ms2ger> A few?
  166. # [18:09] <krisk> or more :)
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  168. # [18:14] <krisk> Also the canvas tests in the 'master' branch have errors when ran
  169. # [18:14] <krisk> e.g. http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/2dcontext/compositing/2d.composite.image.copy.html
  170. # [18:14] <krisk> due to missing common files
  171. # [18:15] <krisk> Known issue?
  172. # [18:15] <jgraham> Right, I think some work is needed on the canvas testsuite
  173. # [18:15] <jgraham> MikeSmith applied some local fixes
  174. # [18:16] <jgraham> But there is a generation script that needs to be updated
  175. # [18:16] <jgraham> Ms2ger might know more
  176. # [18:16] <Ms2ger> I'm still hoping that darobin will fix the script
  177. # [18:16] <krisk> darobin?
  178. # [18:16] <Ms2ger> Yeah
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  180. # [18:17] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] Ms2ger closed pull request #351: Make the DOM and HTML idlharness tests more robust. (master...robust-idlharness) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/351
  181. # [18:17] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  182. # [18:20] <krisk> Is anyone planning on adding tests for setLineDash/getLineDash/lineDashOffset?
  183. # [18:23] <Ms2ger> I'm not
  184. # [18:24] <jgraham> I don't have any current plans to write tests :(
  185. # [18:25] <krisk> really James?
  186. # [18:25] <jgraham> Well I am doing a lot of infrastructure work
  187. # [18:25] <Ms2ger> That's not what we pay him for ;)
  188. # [18:25] <jgraham> So not writing tests at the moment
  189. # [18:26] <krisk> Anyhow IE11 added support for these and in normal fashion we'll submit tests for these parts of canvas
  190. # [18:26] <jgraham> krisk: Sounds good
  191. # [18:28] <jgraham> (I can give an update on the infrastructure work if anyone is interested)
  192. # [18:28] <krisk> sure
  193. # [18:28] <jgraham> OK, but move onto something else first; I need to step away for a moment
  194. # [18:28] <botte> We at CableLabs are primarily interested in media testing. These tests can be written almost entirely in JS (as opposed to html). Any issues or preference concerning this? One advantage to JS is the media.js resource.
  195. # [18:29] <krisk> JS is prefered vs HTML
  196. # [18:29] <botte> Why is media.js not served from /resources?
  197. # [18:29] <botte> <script src="../../../../common/media.js"></script>
  198. # [18:29] <botte> and for that matter,
  199. # [18:29] <botte> any use of relative path's seem a little troublesome.
  200. # [18:29] <botte> - may have broken tests after test reorganization.
  201. # [18:29] <Ms2ger> I'm not sure what that means
  202. # [18:30] <botte> ?
  203. # [18:30] <krisk> botte: We want to use relative paths so when tests are moved (locally) they continue to work
  204. # [18:31] <krisk> For example if the tests are served from a different webserver (not w3c-test.org)
  205. # [18:31] <krisk> Though as noted above some path clean up needs to be fixed so it just works
  206. # [18:31] <Ms2ger> What does it mean to prefer JS over HTML?
  207. # [18:33] <botte> Given a choice between creating an object in html or JS, I wanted to know if there was a preferece. Would you like an example?
  208. # [18:33] <Ms2ger> Depends on what's clearest, I guess
  209. # [18:33] <Ms2ger> You still may want to test both parser-created and script-created elements in some cases, I guess
  210. # [18:34] <botte> Yes, that's part of what I'm asking. But, I not sure about the when one is prefered or needed. I'll learn over time.
  211. # [18:35] <jgraham> Well reporting the results using js is good (compared to using pure html and a reftest)
  212. # [18:35] <jgraham> But in terms of the actual test, which parts are in js depend on what you're trying to test
  213. # [18:35] <jgraham> Often you are constrained
  214. # [18:36] <botte> We're going to be mostly using testharness.js async_test().
  215. # [18:36] <botte> Look at this example, .... document.write(
  216. # [18:36] <botte> "<audio id='audio0'
  217. # [18:36] <botte> src='" + getAudioURI("/media/sound_5")
  218. # [18:36] <botte> + "'"
  219. # [18:36] <botte> + " onplaying='do_playing(event);'autoplay>"
  220. # [18:36] <botte> );
  221. # [18:37] <Ms2ger> Yeah, that's poor
  222. # [18:37] <botte> this could have been written in html. So you are saying html would have been preferred in this case?
  223. # [18:37] <krisk> yes, please
  224. # [18:38] <botte> Excellent!
  225. # [18:38] <Ms2ger> How?
  226. # [18:38] <Ms2ger> Note the getAudioURI call
  227. # [18:39] <Ms2ger> That should just have been written with createElement
  228. # [18:39] <jgraham> Unless testing the interaction with document.write is part of the point
  229. # [18:39] <botte> The getAudio call was the appealing part to me.
  230. # [18:39] <jgraham> What does getAudioURI actually do?
  231. # [18:40] <krisk> document.write causes performance issues, so though you can use it it's not a good idea
  232. # [18:40] <Ms2ger> Select a codec, I think
  233. # [18:40] <krisk> Correct
  234. # [18:40] <botte> So, here's a rule (maybe) --- if using the document.write is what's under test than use it, otherwise not?
  235. # [18:41] <jgraham> Yeah
  236. # [18:41] <jgraham> document.write really isn't a nice API
  237. # [18:42] <jgraham> The sort of order of preference would be plain HTML -> DOM createElement and similar -> document.write
  238. # [18:42] <jgraham> In this case plain HTML doesn't work.
  239. # [18:42] <krisk> Does anyon know why http://dev.w3.org/html5/misc/canvas-implementation.html has ellipse() marked as 'has implementations'?
  240. # [18:42] <krisk> I don't see it supported in FF24, IE11 and chrome
  241. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> Wow, a reference to http://philip.html5.org/tests/canvas/suite/tests/
  242. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> The W3C really loved referencing stuff that's years out of date
  243. # [18:43] <Ms2ger> loves*
  244. # [18:43] <botte> My point about putting all 'resources' (like media.js) into the resources directory seems like it would fix path issues if they occur, unless media.js is not considered a resource.
  245. # [18:44] <Ms2ger> /resources feels like it's for more general stuff, maybe
  246. # [18:44] <jgraham> botte: You can't have /resources/ (that is a submodule for testharness.js) but can use /common/
  247. # [18:44] <Ms2ger> Dunno
  248. # [18:44] <krisk> FWIW If I recall media.js was added before a common folder existed
  249. # [18:45] <jgraham> And I think absolute paths are OK, but possibly only after I land all my infrastructure work :)
  250. # [18:45] <botte> I found a media directory with about 11 media files. No problem with that. We may need to add more media files though. Any rules or regs about this?
  251. # [18:46] <jgraham> Not particularly
  252. # [18:46] <jgraham> I mean, try to reuse existing resources where possible
  253. # [18:46] <jgraham> Large files are very problematic because git
  254. # [18:46] <krisk> plh can help if you need to create media for various codecs
  255. # [18:47] <krisk> Especially ones that you may not '
  256. # [18:47] <jgraham> New media files need to pass review just like everything else
  257. # [18:47] <krisk> ...care about per se
  258. # [18:47] <jgraham> A lot of things we don't have detailed rules for
  259. # [18:47] <jgraham> e.g. there are no detailed naming conventions, but try to follow the existing style if one exists
  260. # [18:48] <krisk> The other reason is that he (plh) can place them on the w3c media server and not have them checked into git or in the past hg
  261. # [18:49] <jgraham> Yeah, so that isn't going to work :)
  262. # [18:49] <jgraham> Things that can't go into VC are a real problem
  263. # [18:50] <jgraham> Because they will translate into missing assets and failing tests when people try to run things locally (e.g. in automation)
  264. # [18:50] <krisk> I think you could use small media files and be just fine
  265. # [18:50] <jgraham> Yes, small files are fine
  266. # [18:50] <jgraham> Large files need more careful consideration
  267. # [18:51] <jgraham> For example if you are specifically testing large files you might be able to generate them algorithmically from a small script
  268. # [18:51] <krisk> yes via blob
  269. # [18:51] <jgraham> But checking multi-megabyte files in to git is a bad idea, and hosting required assets outside git is an even worse idea
  270. # [18:52] <jgraham> Or via server-side python
  271. # [18:52] <botte> Yeah, I thought large files could be an issues. We also may have a lot of media files. A lot? I don't know, 30+, just guessing.
  272. # [18:52] <krisk> do you really need all of them?
  273. # [18:53] <krisk> The reason is that we are not trying to test the codecs for quality/performance
  274. # [18:53] <botte> Don't know yet, just checking ahead of time.
  275. # [18:53] <jgraham> Well lots of small files isn't really an issue
  276. # [18:54] <jgraham> But any number of big files is
  277. # [18:54] <botte> I'm not even touching the copywrite issues, which would, I'm sure, be a stopper.
  278. # [18:54] <botte> Great info, thanks. I'm done with my questions. If these questions are too basic for this forum, let me know and I find a better way to ask them. Thanks again.
  279. # [18:56] <krisk> James do you recall if Opera (non blink) supported canvas ellipse() ?
  280. # [18:56] <jgraham> I don't recall, no
  281. # [18:56] <jgraham> botte: I think these are fine questions
  282. # [18:57] <krisk> botte I don't understand the 'copywrite' issues?
  283. # [18:57] <jgraham> So maybe I should give a brief update on the infrastructure work I am doing
  284. # [18:57] <botte> sounds great, please do
  285. # [18:58] <krisk> Media that is subitted is part of the test suite so you can't take another persons 'movie' e.g. starwars and submit this media
  286. # [18:58] <jgraham> We currently have 4 servers in web-platform-tests: apache+mod_php, pywebsocket, Jetty and mozhttpd (for the WebDriver tests)
  287. # [18:58] <jgraham> These are not well suited for running in automated testing scenarios
  288. # [18:59] <jgraham> It is also a pain to configure a local environment for developing tests
  289. # [18:59] <jgraham> My goal is to cut the number of servers down to 2 and make it possible to set up a production-equivalent environment by running a single script
  290. # [19:00] <jgraham> The two servers are wptserve; a custom python-based server written just for this purpose
  291. # [19:00] <jgraham> and pywebsocket
  292. # [19:00] <jgraham> The work in progress is checked in on a branch in the w3c repo on github
  293. # [19:01] <jgraham> jgraham/python
  294. # [19:01] <krisk> Sounds fine as long as it has good documentation and works on Windows
  295. # [19:01] <jgraham> In theory if you check that out and run python serve.py it will start a production-equivalent environment
  296. # [19:02] <jgraham> (currently https and wss are not supported since I don't know how to deal with certificates)
  297. # [19:02] <jgraham> I am working at converting the PHP code to run under python
  298. # [19:02] <jgraham> This is tedious but largely not difficult
  299. # [19:02] <jgraham> (it also means adding some features to the server as I find they are needed :)
  300. # [19:03] <jgraham> Working on windows is a requirement
  301. # [19:03] <jgraham> I haven't tested outside linux yet, but I have to also get Windows and OSX to work
  302. # [19:04] <jgraham> So that's the big picture. There are technical details about what exactly's supported by the server
  303. # [19:04] <krisk> thanks for the update
  304. # [19:05] <jgraham> But I started adding docs to https://readthedocs.org/projects/wptserve/
  305. # [19:05] <jgraham> They still need some work (like everything)
  306. # [19:05] <jgraham> This is very much a work-in-progress at the moment
  307. # [19:06] <krisk> Why don't you just make this part of the webplatform?
  308. # [19:06] <krisk> ..e.g in git with all the tests
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  310. # [19:10] <jgraham> It will be a submodule
  311. # [19:11] <jgraham> so
  312. # [19:11] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  313. # [19:11] <jgraham> git checkout {url_of_wpt}
  314. # [19:11] <jgraham> git submodule init
  315. # [19:11] <jgraham> git submodule update
  316. # [19:11] <jgraham> ./serve.py
  317. # [19:11] <jgraham> Will get you a fully-functional test environment on your local computer
  318. # [19:12] <Ms2ger> Bah, submodules
  319. # [19:12] <jgraham> I know
  320. # [19:12] <jgraham> But we were using them already for testharness.js
  321. # [19:13] <jgraham> (actually that might need to be git submodule update --recursive, since I think testharness.js has the WebIDL parser as a submodule)
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  326. # [20:02] <jgraham> Hmm, the urge to make a more general templating solution is getting stronger
  327. # [20:02] <jgraham> With that perhaps time to go home
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The end :)