/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2013-11-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Nov 06 00:00:00 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  40. # [14:30] <ArtB> odinho, jgraham re https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=869874 has Jame's fix been copied to http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/eventsource/eventsource-cross-origin.htm ?
  41. # [14:31] <jgraham> ArtB: That branch hasn't landed yet
  42. # [14:31] <jgraham> It's the one that I was trying (and failing) to drum up review on
  43. # [14:32] <ArtB> do you have the PR number handy?
  44. # [14:32] <jgraham> I know the code review is r/368 :)
  45. # [14:33] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/379
  46. # [14:34] <odinho> Hehe, me too. I have that tab open all the time. Know the id of it now :]
  47. # [14:35] <ArtB> would be nice if at least https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/b66283835efe2d163358570a2a8c6c181b2197a8 could get merged
  48. # [14:36] <ArtB> or does that need other commits in that PR?
  49. # [14:38] <jgraham> That needs the other commits
  50. # [14:38] <jgraham> I would very much like to land this by TestTWF, but I can't see how that is going to happen
  51. # [14:39] <ArtB> so, there's prolly only a handful of people that have the bg to review this PR?
  52. # [14:40] * ArtB wonders if there if some type of priority Q for open PRs ...
  53. # [14:40] <jgraham> Well the problem is that it touches a bunch of different testsuites
  54. # [14:40] <jgraham> So someone who knows that particular testsuite should really review the changes
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  56. # [14:43] <odinho> Problem is that xhr testsuite is so fscking big.
  57. # [14:43] <ArtB> oh, I didn't realize the original PR touched ~300 files
  58. # [14:44] <jgraham> Yeah, this is the "kill PHP" review
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  60. # [14:46] <ArtB> is this `group` meeting next week to discuss these type of issues, priorities, plans and such?
  61. # [14:47] <odinho> It would really truly be awesome to have the python changen is for TestWTF, because it's really awesomely much better to work with.
  62. # [14:47] <ArtB> like Who's gonna do What and by When; what's blocking what; etc
  63. # [14:47] <ArtB> (where's Tobie ;-))
  64. # [14:49] <jgraham> ArtB: At the very least we will have something on the plenary day
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  71. # [15:42] <darobin> jgraham, odinho: if we can't get it by ttwf, maybe we can sit down there first thing in the morning and get through it?
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  73. # [15:49] <jgraham> darobin: Sure, but I don't think odinho will be there?
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  75. # [15:52] <odinho> Nope. I have nothing nada zero to do with w3c officially from Opera.
  76. # [15:52] <odinho> Everything I do I do on the side.
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  78. # [15:53] <odinho> I'm full up with infrastructure things in desktop team at work.
  79. # [15:56] <darobin> oh, shame, I thought odinho was coming :(
  80. # [15:56] <Ms2ger> Hire 'im!
  81. # [15:56] <ArtB> :( what about zcorpan
  82. # [15:56] <darobin> odinho: well, the good news is that given the time difference you can work with us pretty much completely on the side!
  83. # [15:57] <darobin> Ms2ger: you want W3C to hire odinho?
  84. # [15:58] <jgraham> And put him to work on RDF
  85. # [15:58] <darobin> or perhaps you meant Robineko — in which case, sure, so long as it doesn't involve me paying any money :)
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  87. # [15:58] <Ms2ger> Heh
  88. # [15:58] <darobin> RDF validation and testing of OWL schema!
  89. # [15:58] <odinho> lool
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  91. # [16:05] <jgraham> ArtB: Especially for you: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2013/SessionIdeas#Testing_-_Status_and_Future_Plans
  92. # [16:06] <ArtB> thanks jgraham; I just added myself
  93. # [16:07] <ArtB> (I guess that's different than rhauck1's topic a couple up on that page)
  94. # [16:07] <ArtB> jgraham, speaking of testing, as you know, WebApps has some time preallocated for testing on Tues Nov 12 http://www.w3.org/wiki/Webapps/November2013Meeting#Agenda_Tuesday_November_12
  95. # [16:08] <jgraham> I suspect rhauck1 is thinking of TestTWF-the-event rather than TestTWF-the-effort
  96. # [16:08] <ArtB> Do you need anything from me or chaals or yves for that afternoon?
  97. # [16:08] <jgraham> ArtB: Not that I know about for the moment
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  100. # [16:09] <ArtB> jgraham, IF WebApps doesn't need to use Tues morning for specs and such, what do you think about using at least some of Tues morning for testing?
  101. # [16:10] <rhauck1> jgraham: ArtB: well yes, sort of, but they should not be seen as separate things IMO
  102. # [16:10] <rhauck1> and tobie shouid weigh in
  103. # [16:10] <jgraham> ArtB: I suspect we have as much time already allocated as people will actually use
  104. # [16:11] <rhauck1> jgraham: ArtB: we'd like to talk about testtwf evolving into more than events
  105. # [16:11] <jgraham> Except for people that will write tests during the boring parts of other meetings anyway :)
  106. # [16:11] <rhauck1> :)
  107. # [16:11] <Ms2ger> Better than sitting on facebook
  108. # [16:11] <rhauck1> jgraham: let's talk this weekend, k?
  109. # [16:11] <jgraham> rhauck1: Sure
  110. # [16:11] <rhauck1> jgraham: when do you arrive?
  111. # [16:11] <rhauck1> i'm here already
  112. # [16:11] <jgraham> Friday late afternoon
  113. # [16:11] <ArtB> rhauck1, jgraham - ok, so keeping those 2 proposals for Wedn is fine with me
  114. # [16:12] <rhauck1> the hotel is like las vegas without the fun
  115. # [16:12] <ArtB> Starbucks?
  116. # [16:12] <ArtB> ;)
  117. # [16:12] <jgraham> rhauck1: FWIW the kind of thing I had in mind was stuff like "what tests do we have", "how do we know if we have good tests", "what's the point of this testing thing anyway", "does anyone run the tests", and so on
  118. # [16:12] <rhauck1> ArtB: not that i've found yet
  119. # [16:14] <jgraham> rhauck1: After briefly summarising some of the recent changes to testing from "moved to github" onwards
  120. # [16:14] <rhauck1> jgraham: well that's certainly a good conversation to have - those questions are things we've sort of been assuming we knew the answers to, but some recent threads indicate we maybe don't
  121. # [16:14] <darobin> rhauck1: I'm sure that as soon as we get there the hotel will be like the fun without Vegas :)
  122. # [16:14] <Ms2ger> "what tests do we have":
  123. # [16:14] <Ms2ger> O(zero)
  124. # [16:15] <gsnedders> O(0) execution? Wow!
  125. # [16:15] <rhauck1> jgraham: under the umbrella of 'how do we know if we have good tests" is the test review discussion, yes?
  126. # [16:15] <jgraham> rhauck1: Yeah, review needs to be discussed at some point
  127. # [16:15] <jgraham> It's a problem at the moment
  128. # [16:15] <rhauck1> darobin + everyone coming here: bring your chinese phrasebooks
  129. # [16:16] <rhauck1> the staff - not so much english
  130. # [16:16] * jgraham looks up the Chinese for "I'm sorry, I don't have a Chinese phrasebook"
  131. # [16:16] <rhauck1> took us 4 tries to order "no MSG"
  132. # [16:16] <darobin> actually, we should print that on a t-shirt
  133. # [16:17] <rhauck1> we might have gotten the tone wrong and said 'i want to kiss you' b/c it got silly
  134. # [16:17] * darobin probably should have a little card saying "no strawberries"
  135. # [16:18] <rhauck1> the testtwf hall is pretty huge
  136. # [16:19] <Ms2ger> jgraham, my hovercraft is full of eels
  137. # [16:20] * darobin remembers he wanted to scare up some HTML test areas for rhauck1
  138. # [16:20] <Ms2ger> darobin, all of them?
  139. # [16:21] <rhauck1> darobin: yes please!
  140. # [16:21] <darobin> Ms2ger: it's more about what beginners can do relatively easily than about finding things that aren't tested
  141. # [16:21] <rhauck1> darobin: jgraham: we're expecting a very full event
  142. # [16:21] <darobin> I mean otherwise it's easy
  143. # [16:21] <rhauck1> currently trying to figure out how to balance the overflow of registrations we have with the no-shows that always happen
  144. # [16:22] <ArtB> (people can always sit on the floor, or is this a food & beverages thing ...)
  145. # [16:22] <rhauck1> ArtB: yes to both
  146. # [16:23] <darobin> I wonder if there could be a "review" crew focuses on reviewing rather than on test production for a given area
  147. # [16:23] <darobin> *focused
  148. # [16:24] <ArtB> +1
  149. # [16:24] <rhauck1> darobin: do you mean have attendees/noobs doing reviews?
  150. # [16:24] <darobin> rhauck1: yeah, with help and supervision
  151. # [16:24] <darobin> perhaps by pairing people in front of a screen or something
  152. # [16:25] <rhauck1> darobin: fwiw zhiqiang from intel is giving a 'how to review' talk
  153. # [16:26] <darobin> yes yes, which is good
  154. # [16:26] <rhauck1> so that's a good setup
  155. # [16:26] <rhauck1> but
  156. # [16:26] <darobin> but the talk likely won't be enough to get people reviewing
  157. # [16:26] <rhauck1> how to persuade people to review rather than write code
  158. # [16:26] <darobin> it's a good way to learn how to write code :)
  159. # [16:26] <darobin> (that matches expectations that is)
  160. # [16:27] <rhauck1> sure, but it seems writing the new tests is sexier
  161. # [16:27] <rhauck1> maybe that's just me
  162. # [16:28] <jgraham> Yeah, review is more boring and harder to do right
  163. # [16:28] <rhauck1> darobin: we could try to do something like 'pair programming' - have people form duos that can write and review each others' tests
  164. # [16:28] <darobin> it's only sexier until 1) you get a review that shoots them down because they don't match the requirements or 2) they languish in a PR forever because no one is reviewing :)
  165. # [16:28] <jgraham> (and for some things requires a level of trust)
  166. # [16:29] <darobin> well, so, I hate pair programming and in general anything that requires me to interact with someone else while I'm coding
  167. # [16:29] <darobin> but
  168. # [16:29] <rhauck1> ha
  169. # [16:29] <rhauck1> ok
  170. # [16:29] <jgraham> s/while I'm coding//
  171. # [16:29] <darobin> to learn reviewing it probably does have some value indeed
  172. # [16:29] <darobin> jgraham: there are a few activities that I enjoy pairing up for :)
  173. # [16:30] <rhauck1> ok, i'm hitting a wall with my jet lag
  174. # [16:30] <jgraham> rhauck1: Before you go, what format did you want the lighting talk slide in?
  175. # [16:31] <jgraham> It probably says in your email…
  176. # [16:31] <rhauck1> whoever's here and free on friday night, let's have a drink
  177. # [16:31] <rhauck1> jgraham: format? something online that i can open in a browser :)
  178. # [16:31] <jgraham> OK, that works
  179. # [16:31] <rhauck1> jgraham: probably doesn't, just gave an outline
  180. # [16:36] <darobin> rhauck1: I'll be there, but probably not before ~2130
  181. # [16:38] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  182. # [16:38] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham pushed 1 new commit to jgraham/python_review_2: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/fc3b9949c8c0ae762e2fed77a4841ce06cc8b795
  183. # [16:38] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/jgraham/python_review_2 fc3b994 James Graham: Add some documentation for writing complex tests
  184. # [16:38] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  185. # [16:40] <jgraham> Feedback wanted: http://wptserve.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ (apart from "obviously you are using markdown wrong", which I will fix)
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  190. # [16:48] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham pushed 1 new commit to jgraham/python_review_2: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/8288c8a5c83f7657ce6ecde4aee3eb60a742f181
  191. # [16:48] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/jgraham/python_review_2 8288c8a James Graham: fixup! Add some documentation for writing complex tests
  192. # [16:48] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  193. # [16:52] <jgraham> Uh, that was not what I wanted feedback on
  194. # [16:52] <jgraham> Although I do alos want feedback on that
  195. # [16:52] <jgraham> *also
  196. # [16:52] <jgraham> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/blob/jgraham/python_review_2/server-side.md
  197. # [16:53] <odinho> OU, fancy readthedocs stylesheet.
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  199. # [16:55] <jgraham> Yeah, it is rather beautiful
  200. # [17:05] <Ms2ger> Hmm, that's new
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  203. # [17:18] <darobin> jgraham: I don't think there's a right way of using MD
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  205. # [17:20] <jgraham> darobin: There is a way that didn't create the markup I needed and a way that did, though
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The end :)