/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2013-12-06 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Dec 06 00:00:01 2013
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  36. # [10:31] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak pushed 1 new commit to deniak/opera-classlist: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/8d695accac15c697261158025de07c243cc8260f
  37. # [10:31] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/deniak/opera-classlist 8d695ac Denis Ah-Kang: Point to DOM instead of HTML spec...
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  47. # [14:27] <Ms2ger> ArtB, I don't believe you can claim consensus in the WG if you make significant changes to the document between the end of the CfC and the publication, regardless of whether Ian told you to
  48. # [14:30] <ArtB> Ms2ger, I think the (2nd) CfC was started after Travis made any substantive changes
  49. # [14:31] <Ms2ger> I meant your changes
  50. # [14:32] <ArtB> ok, so there seems to be different opinion about "substantive"
  51. # [14:33] <Ms2ger> "Changes that affect whether someone would support the publication"
  52. # [14:34] <ArtB> so you're talking about the boilerplate stuff
  53. # [14:36] <Ms2ger> Right
  54. # [14:36] <Ms2ger> (Not too happy about some of the other changes, but I probably wouldn't have objected over those)
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  57. # [14:42] <ArtB> m2ger, if you don't like the W3C's publication rules, my recommendation is you raise your concerns on public-w3proces
  58. # [14:42] <ArtB> although yves, MikeSmith, denis, dom, shepazu or some other staff might have a better recommendation
  59. # [14:44] <ArtB> FWIW, I certainly don't like all of those rules, especially the fact that at least some of them aren't actually documented anywhere (that I know about)
  60. # [14:45] * ArtB apologizes for having this discussion in #testing rather than #webapps
  61. # [14:45] <Yves> the only way to change things is to document what's wrong/burdensome, well it's not guaranteed to change, but without it, it's 100% sure it won't change
  62. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> ArtB: my recommendation is that the WebApps WG stop republishing the DOM Parsing and Serialization immediately
  63. # [14:46] <MikeSmith> and that it not start publishing it again until its able to make crystal clear who actually wrote the spec
  64. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> Yves: that's not the only way. The W3C is not forcing the group to publish this spec
  65. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> the group is choosing to publish it
  66. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> and it can un-choose to
  67. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> a bare-minimal principled stand that the group could take is that it doesn't republish a spec without making it crystal clear where the
  68. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> content came from
  69. # [14:47] <MikeSmith> I think
  70. # [14:48] <MikeSmith> nobody's hands are tied here
  71. # [14:49] <ArtB> MikeSmith, please take a look at the SotD and make a specific proposal that addresses "who actually wrote the spec". N.B. 2nd paragraph <https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/innerhtml/raw-file/default/LCWD-DOM-Parsing-20131205.html#sotd>
  72. # [14:51] <ArtB> there is also some related info in https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/innerhtml/raw-file/default/LCWD-DOM-Parsing-20131205.html#acknowledgements
  73. # [14:51] <Yves> well this SoTD is actually quite clear about the provenance, after that what matters is which version will be implemented, to me that's more important than a process question
  74. # [14:52] <Yves> as the SoTD claims that the two docs diverged
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  76. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> most people never actually read the SoTD nor the Acknowledgements
  77. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> we need to something next to the copyright
  78. # [14:53] <MikeSmith> at a minimum
  79. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> the way the HTML spec used to be published before we got beat down by process jackassery into doing otherwise
  80. # [14:54] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  81. # [14:54] <MikeSmith> we are otherwise all doing something ethically wrong
  82. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> what I object to especially is that we do that while claiming that we somehow have no other choice
  83. # [14:56] <MikeSmith> like we have been forced into against our will
  84. # [14:56] <shepazu> why was avk's name removed?
  85. # [14:59] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  86. # [14:59] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zcorpan closed pull request #459: case sensitivity of the classList attribute (master...deniak/opera-classlist) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/459
  87. # [14:59] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  88. # [14:59] <ArtB> (how dare someone actually do some real work and interrupt process "jackassery" discussion)
  89. # [15:00] <ArtB> ms2ger, do you want me to remove you from the Acks section?
  90. # [15:00] <ArtB> i.e. delete:
  91. # [15:00] <ArtB> [[
  92. # [15:01] <ArtB> Thanks to Ms2ger [http://www.mozilla.org/] for maintaining the initial drafts of this specification and for its continued improvement in the http://domparsing.spec.whatwg.org/.
  93. # [15:01] <ArtB> ]]
  94. # [15:01] <Ms2ger> No, that's fine
  95. # [15:02] <ArtB> I think it's unfortunate you asked to be removed from the Editor's list
  96. # [15:02] <jgraham> zcorpan: Thanks
  97. # [15:03] <ArtB> that doesn't feel right to me (and that's why I added you)
  98. # [15:04] <jgraham> ArtB: It feels like that's the symptom, not the problem
  99. # [15:05] <ArtB> yeah, I understand that view too
  100. # [15:05] <Ms2ger> I don't see why I'd be listed as an editor for a document I don't edit and don't want to edit
  101. # [15:06] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  102. # [15:07] <ArtB> well, that's why the there was the "Upstream WHATWG version"
  103. # [15:08] <ArtB> apparently that was OK for DOM4
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  105. # [15:08] <ArtB> but I understand that one pattern might not be acceptable to all
  106. # [15:08] <Ms2ger> It isn't ok with me, but the HTMLWG published it without asking
  107. # [15:10] <ArtB> oh, I see [well we can blame MikeSmith for that ;-)]
  108. # [15:10] <Ms2ger> Eh, I'll blame darobin :)
  109. # [15:10] <zcorpan> jgraham: for what?
  110. # [15:10] <ArtB> So MikeSmith, you object to HTMLWG publishing W3C DOM4
  111. # [15:11] <ArtB> ?
  112. # [15:11] <Yves> don't forget to blame Art as well :)
  113. # [15:11] <Ms2ger> Did you mean me? :)
  114. # [15:11] <ArtB> oh, I think I've already got my fair share ;)
  115. # [15:11] <Ms2ger> Heh
  116. # [15:12] <jgraham> zcorpan: You continued quest to actually land some tests
  117. # [15:13] <jgraham> *Your
  118. # [15:13] <ArtB> ms2ger, no, I meant MikeSmith [he seems to object to WebApps publishing DOM P&S so I'm wondering if he likewise objects to HTMLWG publishing W3C DOM4]
  119. # [15:14] <Ms2ger> zcorpan, and your chocolate should really really be on its way next week :)
  120. # [15:14] <shepazu> yay, procblocking, my favorite topic! ArtB, you pinged me, but if you actually need me for something that I can do anything about, let me know :)
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  122. # [15:14] <shepazu> I'll be elsewhere, doing work
  123. # [15:15] <Ms2ger> Good call :)
  124. # [15:15] * Ms2ger wanders off
  125. # [15:15] <zcorpan> jgraham: ah, ok. still, we need to change the process because there are like >100 PRs that aren't getting merged
  126. # [15:16] <zcorpan> Ms2ger: looking forward to it :-)
  127. # [15:16] <jgraham> zcorpan: Yeah, I agree. Not many of them from vendors who have already reviewed the tests though :(
  128. # [15:31] <zcorpan> how should i test <a href download>?
  129. # [15:33] <jgraham> Not sure you can really
  130. # [15:34] <jgraham> I guess you can check that clicking an <a href download> doesn't cause navigation
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  132. # [15:34] <jgraham> But I think any other tests have to be manual
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  134. # [15:35] <zcorpan> if i read the spec correctly it seems like a fetch should happen. but then it seems plausible that some browsers are going to prompt the user, which seems bad for an automated test
  135. # [15:35] <zcorpan> maybe if the server returns an error response
  136. # [15:37] <jgraham> How does an error help?
  137. # [15:37] <jgraham> It looks like in that case UAs are free to do whatever
  138. # [15:38] <zcorpan> my thinking was that it avoids a prompt and avoids the download while it allows me to check that the right URL was fetched
  139. # [15:39] <zcorpan> but i guess UAs can still give an error prompt
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  141. # [15:39] <zcorpan> This file failed to download. ( Try again ) ( Go away )
  142. # [15:40] <jgraham> Yeah
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The end :)