/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2014-03-21 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Fri Mar 21 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  29. # [06:09] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/275544eab54a...b7b37974cd4f
  30. # [06:09] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 0f4b83a Denis Ah-Kang: test contentEditable invalid value
  31. # [06:09] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master ed94da2 Denis Ah-Kang: s/SYNTAX_ERR/SyntaxError/ per testharness.js recommendation
  32. # [06:09] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master b7b3797 Michael[tm] Smith: Merge pull request #778 from deniak/contenteditable-exception...
  33. # [06:09] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  34. # [06:10] <@denis> jgraham, looks like the github hook doesn't update the master correctly
  35. # [06:10] <@denis> when you have a moment, can you take a look at: https://github.com/w3c/github_sync/pull/2 ?
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  46. # [10:05] <jgraham> denis: I don't understand why the deteched head matters?
  47. # [10:06] <jgraham> Using pull is the wrong solution for sure
  48. # [10:08] <@denis> jgraham, the hook creates a directory submission in base_path
  49. # [10:09] <@denis> then if we do a git checkout origin/master in base_path, it will give an error
  50. # [10:09] <@denis> because submission is not part of the origin
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  53. # [10:22] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/b7b37974cd4f...d1a99f8dac78
  54. # [10:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 2cf1615 Denis Ah-Kang: test on focus/blur event
  55. # [10:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master d1a99f8 Michael[tm] Smith: Merge pull request #779 from deniak/focus-management...
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  58. # [10:22] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker closed pull request #779: test on focus/blur event (master...focus-management) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/779
  59. # [10:22] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  60. # [10:27] <@denis> jgraham, sorry, I misunderstood your comment about the detached head
  61. # [10:28] <@denis> there's actually a cronjob running on w3c-test.org that git pull master once a day
  62. # [10:28] <@denis> it's failling because the detached head thing
  63. # [10:29] <@denis> but the cronjob should probably be update to do a git checkout origin/master
  64. # [10:29] <Ms2ger> Why git pull?
  65. # [10:29] <@denis> no idea :)
  66. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> what should it be instead
  67. # [10:29] <MikeSmith> well instead of pull -r
  68. # [10:29] <@denis> maybe it was there before the hook
  69. # [10:30] <Ms2ger> My understanding is that hg pull is a normal thing to do, and git pull is something designed to fuck you up
  70. # [10:30] <@denis> I guess the best way to keep it up-to-date is to do a git checkout origin/master
  71. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> I would think we could just change the git fetch to git pull -r
  72. # [10:30] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: yeah that's basically true
  73. # [10:31] <jgraham> I am always a little nervous of git pull
  74. # [10:31] <Ms2ger> Maybe
  75. # [10:31] <Ms2ger> git fetch origin
  76. # [10:31] <Ms2ger> git merge --ff-only origin/master
  77. # [10:31] <jgraham> I would prefer git checkout master; git merge origin/master --ff-only or something
  78. # [10:31] * Ms2ger has pull.sh files lying all around his git trees that do basically that
  79. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> yeah merge --ff-only should be fine
  80. # [10:32] <@denis> ok, will update the cronjob
  81. # [10:32] <MikeSmith> we're not making any local changes in that tree on w3c-test.org so regardless it should never risk clobbering anything
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  83. # [10:44] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker closed pull request #782: test on beforescriptexecute and afterscriptexecute (master...script-before-after-events) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/782
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  86. # [10:44] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 3 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/d1a99f8dac78...7574f4305775
  87. # [10:44] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 63e45d9 Denis Ah-Kang: test on beforescriptexecute and afterscriptexecute
  88. # [10:44] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 7efa525 Denis Ah-Kang: add async_test to test that both events have been fired
  89. # [10:44] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 7574f43 Michael[tm] Smith: Merge pull request #782 from deniak/script-before-after-events...
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  92. # [10:47] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/8d5ae8d6299210d2d49a8a18579b796e365951b4
  93. # [10:47] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 8d5ae8d Michael[tm] Smith: Minor changes to some test message strings.
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  95. # [11:18] <MikeSmith> jgraham: webhook for http://hoppipolla.co.uk/sync.py is returning 500s
  96. # [11:21] <jgraham> MikeSmith: Feel free to remove it
  97. # [11:21] <MikeSmith> k
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  100. # [11:32] <darobin> tobie__, meet MikeSmith; MikeSmith, this is tobie__
  101. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> heh
  102. # [11:32] <darobin> tobie__ and MikeSmith: meet a common purpose
  103. # [11:32] <MikeSmith> tobie__: ganesh jitsu webhook returning 404s
  104. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> "Cannot POST /github-hook-pull-requests"
  105. # [11:33] <darobin> mmmmm
  106. # [11:33] <tobie__> confused
  107. # [11:33] <tobie__> what's giving you 404?
  108. # [11:33] <darobin> that should be /github-hook
  109. # [11:33] <MikeSmith> webhooks posting to http://ganesh.jit.su/github-hook-pull-requests
  110. # [11:34] <tobie__> oh--
  111. # [11:34] <tobie__> it that GH alerting you?
  112. # [11:34] <MikeSmith> http://ganesh.jit.su/github-hook works fine
  113. # [11:34] <MikeSmith> tobie__: passive alert https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/settings/hooks
  114. # [11:34] * jgraham would prefer to meet a common porpoise
  115. # [11:35] <darobin> jgraham: you know what, I was just looking for a way to make that joke
  116. # [11:35] <MikeSmith> tobie__: since http://ganesh.jit.su/github-hook does work if we don't actually need http://ganesh.jit.su/github-hook-pull-requests should we just delete it?
  117. # [11:36] <darobin> I was at "They keep telling me I'm a dull Finn, but really I'm just a common porpoise"
  118. # [11:36] <darobin> which doesn't really fly
  119. # [11:36] <MikeSmith> tobie__: i'd assumed they were hooks for doing two different things but it's sounding more like the 404 is a redundant earlier one or something
  120. # [11:37] <tobie__> Yeah, I was just checking what that one was.
  121. # [11:38] <tobie__> Think it's one I deleted earlier
  122. # [11:38] <tobie__> But still somehow stuck.
  123. # [11:38] <tobie__> or maybe re-surfaced with the UI change
  124. # [11:38] <tobie__> the GH UI change, that is.
  125. # [11:38] <tobie__> Just strike it.
  126. # [11:41] <tobie__> Just did it myself, actually.
  127. # [11:41] <tobie__> Impressed with the new interface.
  128. # [11:41] <tobie__> Much better/clearer than what they had previously.
  129. # [11:43] <Ms2ger> As in, it exists?
  130. # [11:44] <tobie__> True. It was all CLI before, wasn't it?
  131. # [11:44] <tobie__> Or mostly CLI, with confusing documentation.
  132. # [11:45] <jgraham> It was mostly ipython+requests :p
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  137. # [12:39] <darobin> jgraham: once in a while wptserve gives me that https://gist.github.com/anonymous/b5024c9b5453b53b9f1c
  138. # [12:39] <darobin> and after that, it behaves erratically
  139. # [12:39] <darobin> (or the browsers do)
  140. # [12:40] <darobin> I suspect it happens when I load and reload faster than it serves, such that the socket is closed when it tries to write to it
  141. # [12:40] <darobin> my python-fu is however not strong enough that I am sure how to fix it
  142. # [13:11] <jgraham> darobin: Interesting
  143. # [13:11] <jgraham> I don't remember seeing that
  144. # [13:12] <jgraham> darobin: File a bug?
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  147. # [13:29] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/3e446796cf587d3738867c274d6e02d2c0ac026f
  148. # [13:29] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names 3e44679 Michael[tm] Smith: Don't put pass condition in test titles.
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  153. # [13:50] <darobin> jgraham: will do
  154. # [13:51] <darobin> jgraham: you want it in https://github.com/w3c/wptserve?
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  159. # [14:04] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak closed pull request #658: test for the output element (master...output-element) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/658
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  162. # [14:04] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] deniak pushed 5 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/8d5ae8d62992...448eb5d6bef2
  163. # [14:04] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 5a7f1d0 Denis Ah-Kang: test for the output element
  164. # [14:04] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 48133ce Denis Ah-Kang: add tests on setting defaultValue
  165. # [14:04] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master a1dabae Denis Ah-Kang: add tests for value flag mode is in default/value mode
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  170. # [14:10] <darobin> jgraham: I confirm I can repro by reloading like a madman
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  173. # [14:25] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 2 new commits to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/620973389aec...407cd81cea98
  174. # [14:25] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 1fcd62a Robin Berjon: added a log
  175. # [14:25] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 407cd81 Robin Berjon: working UI
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  178. # [14:42] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 1 new commit to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/fba52a32322d76d2add2e8852052b28a750a366a
  179. # [14:42] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty fba52a3 Robin Berjon: nice progress
  180. # [14:42] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  181. # [14:43] <jgraham> darobin: Yeah, I guess that's a good plae to file it
  182. # [14:43] <jgraham> You are on OSX, right?
  183. # [14:43] <darobin> jgraham: yup
  184. # [14:43] <darobin> I filed it actually
  185. # [14:44] <darobin> (thought you'd get some mail)
  186. # [14:44] <darobin> mmmmm
  187. # [14:44] <jgraham> Yeah, I get so much mail from github that it's easy to miss
  188. # [14:44] <jgraham> I have checked and I got this :)
  189. # [14:44] <darobin> I'm also seeing behaviour where when you've hit stop after a while tests start running again (except unhappily since they have no window)
  190. # [14:45] <darobin> I suspect a timeout
  191. # [14:45] <jgraham> Yeah, it does sound like it, doesn't it
  192. # [14:45] <darobin> heh, yeah
  193. # [14:45] <darobin> run_next_test sets a timeout to check for, well, timeouts
  194. # [14:46] <darobin> stop doesn't cancel it
  195. # [14:47] <darobin> and it happily moves to the next test
  196. # [14:47] <darobin> (fixing)
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  198. # [14:47] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 1 new commit to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/3f37c7a97bf3a0be68922db1799d282251ac435e
  199. # [14:47] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 3f37c7a Robin Berjon: fix zombie testing after stop
  200. # [14:47] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  201. # [14:48] <darobin> mmmm, what's a good suite to try out ref tests with
  202. # [14:48] <darobin> ah, dnd
  203. # [14:48] <jgraham> WebVTT has some
  204. # [14:49] <darobin> or not
  205. # [14:49] <darobin> ah, thanks
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  207. # [15:17] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/d3f58e790abd2447ffa165da54687a0a7eddd3d3
  208. # [15:17] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names d3f58e7 Michael[tm] Smith: Added some invalid test documents.
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  211. # [15:18] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 1 new commit to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/2bb35b1abfd3c70d59a5678070a92e454cb6a2bd
  212. # [15:18] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 2bb35b1 Robin Berjon: manual UI also looking good
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  215. # [15:25] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/b06410dd8d9a2a79fb59df41fced0debd1e1182a
  216. # [15:25] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/submission/sideshowbarker/meta-names b06410d Michael[tm] Smith: Renamed files for more consistency.
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  219. # [15:28] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 2 new commits to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/2bb35b1abfd3...5ed63acdb6c6
  220. # [15:28] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 7cc3810 Robin Berjon: eliminate all jshint errorsgs
  221. # [15:28] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 5ed63ac Robin Berjon: start disabled
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  224. # [15:30] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin opened pull request #795: Runner pretty (master...runner-pretty) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/795
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  227. # [15:30] <darobin> jgraham: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/795
  228. # [15:31] <darobin> I maked a pretty, but maybe you won't like it :)
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  231. # [15:53] <jgraham> darobin++
  232. # [15:55] <darobin> :)
  233. # [15:55] <darobin> jgraham: you like?
  234. # [15:55] <darobin> it's tweakable of course
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  236. # [15:57] <jgraham> Yeah, it's a lot better
  237. # [15:57] <jgraham> What's the licensing situation with the bootstrap stuff?
  238. # [15:58] <plh> time darobin, did you see https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/728 ?
  239. # [15:58] <plh> I wonder how your PR will affect that one
  240. # [15:58] <darobin> jgraham: Bootstrap is MIT
  241. # [15:58] <plh> maybe 728 should abandoned?
  242. # [15:59] <darobin> plh: it can be rewritten, it would certainly conflict
  243. # [15:59] <darobin> I thought we didn't want iframe tests
  244. # [15:59] <darobin> that said, for reftests it could be better
  245. # [16:06] <jgraham> Yeah, I don't know what the right thing to do is
  246. # [16:06] <jgraham> running in an iframe could give bogus results in some cases
  247. # [16:07] <jgraham> Really for a mobile device you don't want to be running these tests by hand
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  249. # [16:10] <darobin> it could be an option with a warning
  250. # [16:13] <jgraham> Yep, sure
  251. # [16:14] <jgraham> However it seems more sensible to work on adding non-mozilla support to wptrunner or something. It seems like Tizen supports WebDriver so this might not even be a stupid idea
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  254. # [16:22] <darobin> oh sure, I wouldn't rank it a priority
  255. # [16:24] <darobin> jgraham: btw I've noticed that you call window.focus() after opening the popup; are there browsers on which it actually works?
  256. # [16:24] <darobin> I haven't seen it do anything
  257. # [16:24] <darobin> (though it would be neat)
  258. # [16:26] * Quits: shepazu (schepers@public.cloak) ("is sleepy")
  259. # [16:30] <jgraham> darobin: I'm not sure. My window manager is set up in a strange way so I probably couldn't tell anyway :)
  260. # [16:30] <darobin> haha
  261. # [16:30] <darobin> jgraham: I just researched the topic and it's pretty hopeless
  262. # [16:31] <jgraham> Oh well
  263. # [16:31] <darobin> it's a whole world of JS hackers trying new horrible tricks to cause the popup to blur and browser vendors detecting those and protecting against them
  264. # [16:31] <darobin> the first google hit was http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/blogging/563891-how-make-pop-under.html though, pretty funny
  265. # [16:33] <darobin> the best techniques are actively researched by porn networks
  266. # [16:33] <darobin> I guess it could justify doing some "research"
  267. # [16:35] * hober2 is now known as hober
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  270. # [16:44] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 1 new commit to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/1f7db1c07d8d7972804dd4608b347d3f07cd3cc4
  271. # [16:44] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 1f7db1c Robin Berjon: add ugly braces
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  274. # [16:46] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] darobin pushed 1 new commit to runner-pretty: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/62447d61170983f999110cff371bdcc3351cfbcf
  275. # [16:46] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/runner-pretty 62447d6 Robin Berjon: remove HTML trailing spaces
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  278. # [16:52] <tobie__> Adding non-mozilla support to wptrunner would also make it easier to run the tests on saucelabs
  279. # [16:56] <jgraham> Yeah, so if you can get a marionette-like interface to their webdriver implementation it seems like it shouldn't be *that* hard
  280. # [16:57] <jgraham> But obviously isn't something that I'm planning to work on
  281. # [16:57] <jgraham> (unless I get bored one weekend or something)
  282. # [16:58] <wilhelm> jgraham: Which marionette-like features are required?
  283. # [17:00] <jgraham> Well the architecture assumes that you launch the browser and then start a session in two different parts of the code
  284. # [17:00] <jgraham> So you can't do the normal webdriver thing of letting it launch the browser
  285. # [17:01] <AutomatedTester> so we just need the transport code in webdriver
  286. # [17:01] <jgraham> And I only looked at the marionette API docs, so I don't know how non-standard they are
  287. # [17:01] <wilhelm> So the old Presto approach? Start the browser, then connect to it?
  288. # [17:01] <jgraham> Yeah
  289. # [17:02] <jgraham> Start the browser listening on a specific port
  290. # [17:02] <jgraham> Then later connect to it on that port
  291. # [17:02] <AutomatedTester> fwiw... webdriver does that too
  292. # [17:02] <wilhelm> Why? (I'm not questioning the approach, just trying to understand your particular context.)
  293. # [17:03] <AutomatedTester> because not all platforms allow us to start the browser in the same way
  294. # [17:03] <tobie__> james: you'll find doc on how saucelabs does it here: https://saucelabs.com/docs/onboarding
  295. # [17:03] <tobie__> (note you'll have to log in which you can do using your Github account, afaik)
  296. # [17:03] <jgraham> Also because it makes it easy to control the port and so on
  297. # [17:03] * wilhelm nods.
  298. # [17:03] <wilhelm> Sounds familiar. (c:
  299. # [17:04] <AutomatedTester> wilhelm: like I said, webdriver does that too
  300. # [17:04] <darobin> mmmm, so, when we drive the SauceLabs stuff it's infrastructure that doesn't need to run on vendors' systems, right? (by definition)
  301. # [17:04] * wilhelm nods.
  302. # [17:04] <darobin> I ask because that lifts the Python requirement
  303. # [17:04] <AutomatedTester> darobin: it works for released versions only
  304. # [17:04] <tobie__> :)
  305. # [17:05] <darobin> AutomatedTester: I know, but we'd like to use it anyway
  306. # [17:05] <tobie__> darobin: I see where you going with this.
  307. # [17:05] <darobin> we have a free account
  308. # [17:05] <darobin> tobie__: I wasn't being very discreet was I?
  309. # [17:05] <darobin> AutomatedTester: one of the things we could do is gather caniuse-like data by running the full TS across all devices on SL
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  311. # [17:06] <darobin> it doesn't replace having a WD tool to run on one's own browser; they're different tools
  312. # [17:06] <AutomatedTester> darobin: ok but they have all browsers
  313. # [17:06] <darobin> but only released ones
  314. # [17:06] <AutomatedTester> so it will only give you a subset of data
  315. # [17:07] <AutomatedTester> dont have all browsers even
  316. # [17:07] <darobin> oh, yeah
  317. # [17:07] <darobin> well, they have a lot
  318. # [17:07] <jgraham> Probably no servo :p
  319. # [17:07] <darobin> I don't have the credentials for SL though, I guess I'd have to ask tobie__ or plh
  320. # [17:07] <AutomatedTester> e.g. they dont have blackberry's browser, Firefox (OS and Android), Chrome for Android, Opera that has blink
  321. # [17:08] <darobin> haha, "Eh mec, t'as pas de servo!" <- good one
  322. # [17:08] <darobin> AutomatedTester: I know, but it's free in exchange for just writing a script...
  323. # [17:08] <darobin> and I suspect they'll be adding more devices
  324. # [17:08] <darobin> also, Blackberry?
  325. # [17:08] <darobin> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
  326. # [17:09] <darobin> *cough* sorry
  327. # [17:09] <AutomatedTester> darobin: Blackberry are going to be helping webdriver get into webkit since Apple
  328. # [17:10] <darobin> syntax error at AutomatedTester line 298798776
  329. # [17:10] <AutomatedTester> darobin: we did hope Google were going to do it but then Blink
  330. # [17:11] <darobin> well, let's hope they get it in before they vanish
  331. # [17:12] <AutomatedTester> the US government will keep them going
  332. # [17:13] <darobin> you mean under Chapter 11 or with contracts?
  333. # [17:13] <AutomatedTester> contracts
  334. # [17:13] <AutomatedTester> they just renewed their contracts
  335. # [17:13] <AutomatedTester> just being in the last couple months
  336. # [17:13] <darobin> yeah, but if that's all they've got they may lose the funding for teams that work on cool stuff
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  338. # [17:14] <AutomatedTester> darobin: they just released a webdriver implementation so they obviously do
  339. # [17:14] <darobin> oh! *now* you tell me that :)
  340. # [17:14] <darobin> that's cool news
  341. # [17:14] <wilhelm> Let's not scare away anyone doing good work here... (c:
  342. # [17:14] <darobin> next thing you know IE12 will run on OSX
  343. # [17:15] * wilhelm says nothing.
  344. # [17:15] <lukeis> noooo not that abomination again ;)
  345. # [17:15] <AutomatedTester> darobin: https://twitter.com/AutomatedTester/statuses/438558763432169472
  346. # [17:15] <wilhelm> lukeis: Hey, 5 was _excellent_.
  347. # [17:15] <tobie__> As long as W3C provides an end-point where vendors can send the results of having run the test suites on their own browser,
  348. # [17:16] <darobin> AutomatedTester: yeah, that I saw — it's real nice
  349. # [17:16] <tobie__> using saucelabs is just going to provide useful data points
  350. # [17:16] <tobie__> and incentivizes vendors to runt the tests too
  351. # [17:16] <tobie__> (Should they not be on saucelabs, or should they want to share improvements of yet to be released versions)
  352. # [17:16] <darobin> note that saucelabs integration could also help W3C have a service that let's you check if you're going to break the web with a given spec thing
  353. # [17:17] <tobie__> Trying to figure out what the credentials for the W3C account are, btw.
  354. # [17:17] <darobin> you could write a test for it and check what it does in a bunch of ancient browsers to make sure that it doesn't do anything bad there
  355. # [17:19] <AutomatedTester> tobie__: the downside, that I can see, for vendors to help Saucelabs is why should they give a corporate company things for them to make money (with nothing coming back)
  356. # [17:19] <AutomatedTester> since its money vendors will have to spend for this
  357. # [17:19] <tobie__> AutomatedTester: I think your premise that vendors wouldn;t get anything out of it is incorrect.
  358. # [17:20] <AutomatedTester> its based on historical data, but carry on
  359. # [17:20] <tobie__> IMHO, FFOS would benefit greatly from being easily testable for anyone using saucelabs.
  360. # [17:21] <AutomatedTester> tobie__: which is why there will be a spec
  361. # [17:21] <AutomatedTester> there is investment in the implementation of webdriver
  362. # [17:21] <AutomatedTester> but I work for a vendor that agrees with the need for webdriver
  363. # [17:22] <AutomatedTester> MS have *just* agreed
  364. # [17:22] <AutomatedTester> and Apple havent seen value
  365. # [17:22] <AutomatedTester> note that the spec has been in the works for 2+ years
  366. # [17:22] <tobie__> Yeah, they're the dominating player in the mobile field.
  367. # [17:22] <tobie__> no wonder they're not incentivized to fix the issue.
  368. # [17:22] <tobie__> people do it for the,
  369. # [17:23] <tobie__> s/the,/them/
  370. # [17:23] <AutomatedTester> Apple has no one doing it for them
  371. # [17:23] <tobie__> case in point, saucelabs lets you run tests on iOS devices.
  372. # [17:24] <AutomatedTester> so you are proving my point
  373. # [17:24] <AutomatedTester> vendors won't invest in this because others are doing the work
  374. # [17:24] <wilhelm> My evil plan from three years ago was this: 1. Spec WebDriver. 2. Point to the spec, and standardize automation of interactive web platform tests using WebDriver. 3. With new incentives, see browser vendors pick up their parts of the work.
  375. # [17:25] <tobie__> AutomatedTester: I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
  376. # [17:25] <jgraham> In any case
  377. # [17:26] <AutomatedTester> I said "the downside for vendors helping saucelabs is they are putting in effort(into a for profit org) and not getting anything back)
  378. # [17:26] <jgraham> If someone puts in the effort, porting wptrunner to non-Mozilla browsers might not be that hard
  379. # [17:26] <AutomatedTester> and you disagreed
  380. # [17:26] <jgraham> Which is a better solution than tools/runner
  381. # [17:26] <wilhelm> jgraham: Have you approached any other vendors?
  382. # [17:26] <AutomatedTester> and then said what I just said
  383. # [17:26] <jgraham> wilhelm: No, I haven't even finished landing it for Mozilla yet
  384. # [17:27] <wilhelm> jgraham: I'd prod Microsoft sooner rather than later and say "this is relevant to your interests". They may be working on the exact same challenges right now.
  385. # [17:27] <tobie__> AutomatedTester: no, I'm saying there's incentives for vendors who are not market leaders to put effort in providing saucelabs with devices, etc.
  386. # [17:28] <jgraham> wilhelm: Once I am convinced it works from PyPI I will send a note to public-test-infra at least
  387. # [17:28] <tobie__> Agreed of course there's none for market leaders as saucelabs will do the work for them
  388. # [17:29] <wilhelm> jgraham: Wonderful!
  389. # [17:30] <AutomatedTester> tobie__: Apple arent interested in making testing easy because it means they can see sell more hardware
  390. # [17:30] <tobie__> AutomatedTester: meh
  391. # [17:30] <AutomatedTester> tobie__: example of this, know of a OSX in the cloud provider?
  392. # [17:30] <AutomatedTester> I know Google have been trying for a long time to help build and internal one and Apple tell them to bugger off
  393. # [17:31] <tobie__> OSX in the cloud != testing devices
  394. # [17:31] <AutomatedTester> tobie__: no one tests on real devices at scale
  395. # [17:32] <AutomatedTester> they either use development boards or emulators
  396. # [17:36] <tobie__> I'm confused about where you're going with this.
  397. # [17:36] <tobie__> The only point I was trying to make was: running the tests on as many UA as possible is good.
  398. # [17:37] <tobie__> If certain UAs aren't provided by saucelabs, relevant vendors can choose to either:
  399. # [17:37] <tobie__> 1. run the tests themselves and provide the results
  400. # [17:37] <AutomatedTester> which they need to do otherwise we will never see in development versions
  401. # [17:38] <tobie__> 2. provide a compatible solution so that such tests can be ran similarly to the way saucelabs-based tests are.
  402. # [17:38] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  403. # [17:39] <AutomatedTester> ok, what is a saucelabs based test? WebDriver?
  404. # [17:39] <tobie__> Yes. :)
  405. # [17:39] * wilhelm wields his shoehorn.
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  407. # [17:43] <tobie__> (so #2 above would imply something like exposing a WebDriver client that could be remotely driven by a version of wpt-runner hosted on w3c-tests.org)
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  410. # [17:43] <Automate_> anyway, I need to go
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The end :)