/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2014-05-19 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon May 19 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  15. # [03:55] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 24 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/2911db9ba6c4...5adbfa2aba26
  16. # [03:55] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 92b954f Denis Ah-Kang: already tested
  17. # [03:55] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 83cf850 Denis Ah-Kang: type hidden is barred from constraint validation
  18. # [03:55] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 5d4cbe5 Denis Ah-Kang: rewrite tests on type email
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  21. # [03:59] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker closed pull request #773: tests on input types {email,password,number,checkbox,radio,file,image,reset,button} (master...input-element) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/773
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  45. # [11:16] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sgrekhov opened pull request #995: Pull request for Animation timeline tests (master...submission/unipro-web-animations-01) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/995
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  49. # [11:44] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/a0b890471897dc4e47595c1e6c277d58022d3b6a
  50. # [11:44] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master a0b8904 Seva Lotoshnikov: BODY element visibility: must always be displayed no matter what...
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  53. # [11:48] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/4ae33e059cdc2d6fc1ef3017dc056067a60cb56f
  54. # [11:48] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 4ae33e0 Seva Lotoshnikov: Replacing use of find_element_by_tag_name that doesn't exist in the spec...
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  66. # [15:38] <jgraham> Does http://hoppipolla.co.uk/410/wptrunner.svg make the smallest bit of sense to anyone?
  67. # [15:38] <jgraham> Ms2ger, darobin, AutomatedTester ^
  68. # [15:39] <darobin> jgraham: I never understand diagrams, at all
  69. # [15:40] <Ms2ger> Fancy
  70. # [15:40] <Ms2ger> DUnno
  71. # [15:41] <AutomatedTester> jgraham: what do the different arrow types mean?
  72. # [15:42] <Ms2ger> See, there's the manager
  73. # [15:42] <AutomatedTester> and the different line types
  74. # [15:43] <darobin> they point at things!
  75. # [15:43] <jgraham> darobin: I have a feeling there is some secret code I am supposed to use for this kind of diagram that is passed down to people in a ritual trance-like state by their Computer Engineering course. But since I never got indoctrinated into that special club, I don't actually know how to make "proper" diagrams. So your lack of understanding is matched neatly by my own.
  76. # [15:43] <darobin> jgraham: ah, so it isn't just me
  77. # [15:44] <darobin> jgraham: well, from my point of view, if it's any reassurance, it looked a lot like the other diagrams that I don't understand :)
  78. # [15:44] <jgraham> AutomatedTester: the dashed lines are things that happen cross-process in some way or another
  79. # [15:44] <jgraham> The dotted line is something that wasn't a normal line or a dashed line
  80. # [15:45] <jgraham> The open arrow was the closest thing to a SQL 1:many type arrow this website had
  81. # [15:45] <jgraham> Except it is very unlike that and doesn't communicate the right thing at all
  82. # [15:45] <darobin> lol
  83. # [15:46] <darobin> jgraham: may I ask why you are dragging yourself through this?
  84. # [15:46] <jgraham> darobin: Because the alternative was 1000 words of the form "the ManagerGroup bone is connected to the TestRunnerManager bone"
  85. # [15:47] <darobin> I guess that's the proximate cause; I was asking about a more ulimate one
  86. # [15:47] <darobin> *ultimate
  87. # [15:50] <jgraham> Well partly because one piece of review feedback was basically "I don't understand how this all fits together". And partly because the amount of review feedback per line of code strongly suggests that was the case.
  88. # [15:50] <jgraham> (i.e. it suffered from the nuclear power plant problem)
  89. # [15:50] <darobin> okay, fair enough
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  91. # [15:53] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zcorpan opened pull request #996: Test img loading. WIP (master...img-bug-24711) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/996
  92. # [15:53] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  93. # [15:55] <jgraham> So the range of opinions there were "dunno", "are you crazy?" and "this needs a key".
  94. # [16:04] <darobin> I think the last one is the important one
  95. # [16:05] <jgraham> Yes, I think that's true
  96. # [16:05] <jgraham> Maybe I should have done that before asking for feedback
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  105. # [17:02] <tobie_> jgraham: what the BrowserExecutor and Executor?
  106. # [17:03] <tobie_> * what are
  107. # [17:03] <tobie_> What's the difference between Browser and Browser under test?
  108. # [17:06] <jgraham> tobie_: I have a slightly updated diagram!
  109. # [17:06] <jgraham> tobie_: Reload?
  110. # [17:08] <jgraham> (and again)
  111. # [17:08] <tobie_> COLOR
  112. # [17:08] <tobie_> or should I say: COLOUR?
  113. # [17:09] <jgraham> Yes, you should
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  115. # [17:09] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester closed pull request #988: Some tests for BODY element visibility: must always be displayed no matter what. (master...v1) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/988
  116. # [17:09] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  117. # [17:09] <jgraham> :)
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  119. # [17:09] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester closed pull request #987: Replacing use of find_element_by_tag_name that doesn't exist in the spec (master...by_tag_name) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/987
  120. # [17:09] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  121. # [17:09] <jgraham> An Executor is something that implements the testing protocol for a specific test type. So there's a WebDriverTestharnessExecutor, for example
  122. # [17:10] <tobie_> I thought you were writing python.
  123. # [17:10] <jgraham> A BrowserExecutor is just a way of holding some information about the Browser in the same process as the Executor
  124. # [17:10] <jgraham> I know, I know, it sounds like Java
  125. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> "find_element_by_css"
  126. # [17:11] <Ms2ger> Who invented this?
  127. # [17:11] <jgraham> I couldn't work out what the non-Java-sounding solution to that was
  128. # [17:12] <tobie_> Ms2ger: querySelector sounds so much clearer.
  129. # [17:12] <tobie_> :D
  130. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> More accurate, definitely
  131. # [17:12] <tobie_> mouarf.
  132. # [17:12] <jgraham> I'm not sure "query" is accurate
  133. # [17:12] <Ms2ger> At least Selector is
  134. # [17:13] <jgraham> "selectSelector"
  135. # [17:13] <tobie_> oh, Ms2ger wasn't trolling?
  136. # [17:13] <Ms2ger> For once
  137. # [17:15] <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Does the key help?
  138. # [17:15] <tobie_> jgraham: what problem is this arch trying to solve?
  139. # [17:16] <jgraham> tobie_: I have a list! But it's also descriptive i.e. this is what the architecture is
  140. # [17:16] <tobie_> ok
  141. # [17:17] <jgraham> tobie_: The list is basically 1) Fast 2) Fault tolerant 3) Portable to multiple products
  142. # [17:17] <tobie_> that high level
  143. # [17:18] <jgraham> In particular one sub-goal of 2) was to be able to run multiple browser processes in parallel
  144. # [17:18] <jgraham> s/2/1/
  145. # [17:19] <tobie_> k
  146. # [17:20] <tobie_> Think the diagram makes sense.
  147. # [17:20] <jgraham> Hopefully when I finish the documentation this will all make sense :) But the point of the diagram is to help understand how the pieces fit together so that people have some idea where to start looking for issues.
  148. # [17:20] <tobie_> I see.
  149. # [17:21] <tobie_> You might want to describe the itinerary of what happens for a test run
  150. # [17:23] <jgraham> Yeah.
  151. # [17:23] <jgraham> tobie_: Thanks
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  153. # [17:23] <tobie_> e.g. http://coremob.github.io/coremob-test-approach/#host-the-test-runner-directly-on-the-w3c-test-server
  154. # [17:23] <tobie_> (I hope you can do better than that, but you get the idea)
  155. # [17:26] <Ms2ger> Heh, coremob
  156. # [17:29] <tobie_> jgraham: I also find representing 1:many is better done by duplicating stuff (eg http://i.msdn.microsoft.com/dynimg/IC164178.gif)
  157. # [17:30] <tobie_> …than by using fancy arrows
  158. # [17:38] <jgraham> tobie_: So, I agree, but it's not really clear to me how to make that work on this diagram
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  161. # [17:49] <tobie_> jgraham: are you hand authoring the svg?
  162. # [17:50] <jgraham> tobie_: I am using something called draw.io
  163. # [17:51] <jgraham> tobie_: See if you like the new version more
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  166. # [17:52] <tobie_> I do.
  167. # [17:52] <tobie_> I'm still confused as to what "Product under Test" means.
  168. # [17:52] <tobie_> Compared to Browser
  169. # [17:52] <jgraham> It's the brower process, typically
  170. # [17:53] <jgraham> (although with Firefox OS it can be a whole device)
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  172. # [17:59] <jgraham> tobie_: If you have a better term, I'm happy to change it.
  173. # [18:03] <tobie_> It's like a group of browsing contexts, no?
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  175. # [18:08] <jgraham> Typically it's a single browsing context that's actually running the tests
  176. # [18:11] <tobie_> Why don't you call "Product under Test" a "browsing context" then?
  177. # [18:11] <jgraham> That seems pretty weird
  178. # [18:12] <jgraham> For example it makes it sound like you could have multiple tests in different tabs of the same browser, which you can't
  179. # [18:12] <jgraham> +instance
  180. # [18:13] <jgraham> I could call it "Browser Instance" I guess, but that's a bit confusing with the Browser class
  181. # [18:15] <tobie_> think it's not super clear from your diagram, whether something is a class of your program or a "thing"
  182. # [18:19] <jgraham> Do you have any suggestions on how to make it clearer?
  183. # [18:20] <tobie_> it's kind of a chiken and egg problem; I would if I had a better sense of how the whole thing is organized, which I'd get from a clearer diagram.
  184. # [18:20] <tobie_> * chicken
  185. # [18:21] <tobie_> maybe use a browser window or some such for the Product under test thing.
  186. # [18:22] <jgraham> Everything in purple is a class (or function in the case of run_tests) in the program. As is everything in blue or orange. The things in green are external pieces at higher levels than classes. The red thing is whatever browser it is that you're trying to test (a firefox process, or a device running Firefox OS, or a servo process or a Chrome process, or whatever)
  187. # [18:26] <tobie_> What does the TestLoader do?
  188. # [18:26] <tobie_> (Sorry, I think I'm waisting more of your time than being helpful)
  189. # [18:27] <jgraham> tobie_: No, it's helpful
  190. # [18:28] <jgraham> tobie_: The TestLoader reads the manifest file and any options limiting the tests to include and returns a Queue of test objects ready to be run.
  191. # [18:29] <tobie_> ok.
  192. # [18:29] <jgraham> It doesn't *directly* talk to the Executor, but the Queue gets passed through to the — well actually to the TestRunner I think, which is a mistake in the diagram
  193. # [18:29] <tobie_> So yeah, you'd really need a list of what's happening
  194. # [18:29] <tobie_> and in what order.
  195. # [18:30] <tobie_> Also, it's somewhat of a misnomer given the Web context.
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  197. # [18:32] <jgraham> I don't understand why you think it's a misnomer
  198. # [18:32] <jgraham> (I'm not saying you're wrong)
  199. # [18:32] <Ms2ger> It doesn't really "load", does it?
  200. # [18:33] <jgraham> Well it queues
  201. # [18:33] <tobie_> yeah, TestCollectionBuilder or something
  202. # [18:33] <jgraham> But TestQueuer sounds a bit strange
  203. # [18:34] <Ms2ger> I can't come up with something nice either
  204. # [18:35] <tobie_> ManifestReader?
  205. # [18:35] <tobie_> Impl. ves encaps and all
  206. # [18:36] <tobie_> s/ves/vs/
  207. # [18:37] <jgraham> Well it's also used by the code for reducing a list of unstable tests to a minimal set required to reproduce the instability and that usage depends on internal state, so it's not like it gets called to read the manifest and then disappears (in that context)
  208. # [18:38] <Ms2ger> Should that be the same class? :)
  209. # [18:38] <tobie_> ^
  210. # [18:38] <jgraham> Well sure, I mean it's just a superset of the functionality
  211. # [18:39] <tobie_> TestEnqueuer
  212. # [18:39] <Ms2ger> TestQueueReducer
  213. # [18:39] <tobie_> Fancy
  214. # [18:39] <tobie_> What does Executor do?
  215. # [18:40] <jgraham> http://www.classnamer.com/ suggests ConfigurableNodeReader :p
  216. # [18:41] <Ms2ger> wfm
  217. # [18:41] <jgraham> tobie_: It actually executes the tests. So for example when using WebDriver, it send the WebDriver commands to the browser to start a test and listens for the result
  218. # [18:41] <tobie_> And what does testrunner do?
  219. # [18:42] <tobie_> jgraham: that's not what classnamer gave me (StableRobotVector)
  220. # [18:43] <jgraham> It is the generic interface between executors (which are specific to test running protocol and test type) and the rest of the code (which is not). It does things like pulls the next test off the queue of tests and passes it to the executor to run
  221. # [18:46] <tobie_> and BrowserExecutor?
  222. # [18:48] <jgraham> That is just a way of packaging some information about the Browser (e.g. the port on which it will accept a WebDriver connection) so that it can be used in the same process as the Executor.
  223. # [18:49] <jgraham> (passing the Browser instance cross-process doesn't work and sometimes there is a little bit of extra behaviour in the BrowserExecutor e.g. in B2G it has code to ensure that the device is configured for running tests)
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  225. # [18:52] <tobie_> Not sure whether that's a design issue or a diagram one, but I feel the whole thing would gain in clarity if the Executor and ExecutorBrowser were brokered by the test runner (and thus absent from the diagram)
  226. # [18:53] <jgraham> They're kind of important, because if you want to implement support for a new browser you might have to implement a new Executor (depending on whether it supports one of the existing ones)
  227. # [18:54] <jgraham> I'm not sure what you mean "brokered by"
  228. # [18:54] <tobie_> Agreed, but they're not important to understand the mechanics of the whole thing
  229. # [18:54] <tobie_> yeah, poor choice of words, sorry,
  230. # [18:55] <tobie_> I feel like the TestRunner should be the one controlling the test queue, and using the executor to actually get the test running
  231. # [18:57] <tobie_> In pseudo code: t = new TestRunner(new Executor("webdriver"))
  232. # [18:57] <tobie_> t.tests = queue;
  233. # [18:57] <tobie_> t.next();
  234. # [19:03] <jgraham> Yes, well that's basically what happens
  235. # [19:04] <jgraham> The signature for TestRunner is (self, test_queue, command_queue, result_queue, executor)
  236. # [19:04] <jgraham> command_queue and result_queue are implementation details for getting messages back and forward from the child process
  237. # [19:08] <jgraham> tobie_: Uploaded a new diagram (it also seems like there was a bug in the key, which might have been confusing)
  238. # [19:19] <tobie_> thats much clearer already
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  245. # [21:48] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/4a70874c4a757e730d86938c4a94d2b33d6fc0ed
  246. # [21:48] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 4a70874 Jason Leyba: tests for WebDriver executeScript...
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  249. # [21:51] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] AutomatedTester closed pull request #704: Add some tests for WebDriver executeScript (section 11.2.1) (master...master) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/704
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  263. # [22:55] <jgraham> http://wptrunner.readthedocs.org/en/latest/design.html
  264. # [22:55] <jgraham> tobie_: ^
  265. # [22:55] <jgraham> I seem to have used italics a lot where I meant code
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  272. # Session Close: Tue May 20 00:00:01 2014

The end :)