/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2014-06-11 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Wed Jun 11 00:00:00 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  6. # [00:21] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/c992d3b20a9a...f8c15ea2ddd0
  7. # [00:21] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master acdec76 plehegar: Added information about IRC channel
  8. # [00:21] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master f8c15ea jgraham: Merge pull request #1051 from plehegar/ircreadme...
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  11. # [00:21] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham closed pull request #1051: Added information about IRC channel (master...ircreadme) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1051
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  20. # [03:22] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/86e309dd81ef8627d3df2c3fee0ada6584df164d
  21. # [03:22] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 86e309d Wang, HongjuanX: Add new tests for eventsource readyState
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  24. # [03:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang closed pull request #892: Add eventsource readyState tests (master...wanghongjuan/eventsource) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/892
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  50. # [09:24] <Ms2ger> Anybody thought that testing update email was useful?
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  59. # [10:58] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] zqzhang opened pull request #1052: Update mailing list and shorten new branch name (master...zqzhang/contributing) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1052
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  67. # [11:32] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] jgraham pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/86e309dd81ef...64c9976ebc5d
  68. # [11:32] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master a53e8c4 Zhiqiang Zhang: Update mailing list and shorten new branch name
  69. # [11:32] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 64c9976 jgraham: Merge pull request #1052 from zqzhang/zqzhang/contributing...
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  90. # [15:19] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] tobie opened pull request #1053: Initial SW stub addition. (master...sw) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1053
  91. # [15:19] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  92. # [15:21] <tobie_> Would love to get feedback on https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1053
  93. # [15:25] <jgraham> tobie_: Trailing whitespace :p
  94. # [15:26] <jgraham> So, I think it's not an unreasonable idea
  95. # [15:26] <jgraham> I am less sure about checking in the results to master
  96. # [15:28] <Ms2ger> r-, links to TR/
  97. # [15:28] <jgraham> Well specifically the empty files. The webidl bits are fine of course
  98. # [15:28] <tobie_> links to /TR?
  99. # [15:28] <tobie_> WHERE?
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  101. # [15:29] <Ms2ger> https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1053
  102. # [15:30] <tobie_> Ms2ger: lineno?
  103. # [15:31] <tobie_> jgraham: so the benefits of having the empty files, is you have a stub to work from.
  104. # [15:31] <Ms2ger> 7 matches in https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1053/files
  105. # [15:31] <tobie_> so those are from the spec itself.
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  107. # [15:32] <tobie_> blame slightlyoff
  108. # [15:33] <jgraham> tobie_: Yeah, but who is "you" in this case? It seems like "you" as an individual could do the same thing on a branch. Or even you a group of people with some coordination. And I think uncoordinated people are more likely to look at those files and say "oh those tests are already written / being written, I don't need to join in" than they are to notice all the gaps and work to fill them in
  109. # [15:33] <tobie_> jgraham: agree.
  110. # [15:34] <tobie_> jgraham: a number of solutions I had in mind for this was:
  111. # [15:34] <tobie_> 1) generate an issue for each opened file.
  112. # [15:35] <jgraham> One issue per file seems like bugspam
  113. # [15:35] <tobie_> 2) have an extra test harness method like: not_tested_yet()
  114. # [15:35] <jgraham> One issue for the whole suite seems more appropriate
  115. # [15:35] <tobie_> Well, except in that case, it's a lot harder to claim parts of the work.
  116. # [15:36] <jgraham> "I'll work on the tests for section 4.1" seems easy enough
  117. # [15:36] <jgraham> Certainly compared to GitHub issues where only Collaborators are allowed to assign issues
  118. # [15:38] <jgraham> So, if there is a strong case for having these in master — and I'm not sure there is — I would prefer a naming convention like foo-stub.html to not_yet_implemented()
  119. # [15:38] <tobie_> yeah, that was my suggestion #3
  120. # [15:38] <jgraham> Then test runners could skip the whole file
  121. # [15:39] <tobie_> Yeah, so it's a balance between making it easy to contribute to and easy to run.
  122. # [15:40] <jgraham> Well as soon as you add any tests to the file you would have to rename it
  123. # [15:42] <tobie_> right.
  124. # [15:42] <tobie_> so I can see how that's going to be forgotten often
  125. # [15:42] <tobie_> And so we risk having tests that aren't run because of that.
  126. # [15:43] <jgraham> Well, yes
  127. # [15:43] <jgraham> But I think the idea of having a bunch of empty test-like files is both misleading and inefficient
  128. # [15:43] <jgraham> So I'm rather against comitting those to master
  129. # [15:44] <jgraham> I'm very happy to work with branches, and somewhat less happy to make it clear that the files aren't tests until they have some actual content
  130. # [15:45] <tobie_> What would the workflow look like with a branch?
  131. # [15:46] <jgraham> I guess the only confusing thing would be landing some files before the whole branch, which might be needed
  132. # [15:47] <jgraham> In that case you would have to pull the files you wanted to land out into their own branch(es) and land those, then rebase the main branch
  133. # [15:48] <tobie_> sounds… complicated?
  134. # [15:49] <plh> https://developers.google.com/google-test-automation-conference/
  135. # [15:49] * plh waves (and the link is fyi)
  136. # [15:49] <ato> plh: Rather unfortunate that it is the same time as TPAC.
  137. # [15:49] * plh (not meant to be related to ongoing discussion)
  138. # [15:50] <ato> (See http://googletesting.blogspot.no/2014/06/gtac-2014-coming-to-seattlekirkland-in.html)
  139. # [15:50] <jgraham> tobie_: Not terrribly simple
  140. # [15:51] <darobin> testharness.js could easily discover that it is running at a location called -stub.html and warn if there are tests
  141. # [15:51] <darobin> just sayin'
  142. # [15:52] <jgraham> Yeah, or the lint could probably be taught about that
  143. # [15:52] <darobin> yeah, for instance
  144. # [15:53] <tobie_> darobin: you mean when run locally?
  145. # [15:54] <tobie_> because, by definition, these won't be run should they have a "-stub" prefix.
  146. # [15:55] <tobie_> (suffix or what not)
  147. # [15:55] <jgraham> If you manually load them into the browser
  148. # [15:55] <tobie_> Right.
  149. # [15:55] <jgraham> Which is probably how people test their tests
  150. # [15:56] <tobie_> Doesn't wpt do a test scan before it runs them?
  151. # [15:56] <MikeSmith> ato: I had been hoping that there was some possibility that the GTAC dates could be moved, but it sounds like it's too late
  152. # [15:56] <ato> MikeSmith: Indeed. I think AutomatedTester pinged someone at Google about it too.
  153. # [15:57] <jgraham> tobie_: I don't know what you mean exactly, but I think the answer is "no"
  154. # [15:58] <MikeSmith> ato: so I'm talking with plh about this now. Do you think this pretty much means we're not going to be able to have a WG meeting at TPAC?
  155. # [15:58] <MikeSmith> wilhelm: ↑
  156. # [15:59] <MikeSmith> AutomatedTester: ↑
  157. # [15:59] <ato> If we do the WG F2F on Thu-Fri that week, I think it should be possible. But I'm not sure how convenient it is for others.
  158. # [15:59] <Ms2ger> Well, that'll be aloss
  159. # [16:00] <plh> one thing we're wondering: would it possible/valuable to present the effort of WPT during GTAC 2014
  160. # [16:01] <jgraham> All things are possible
  161. # [16:01] <jgraham> Well except faster than light travel
  162. # [16:01] <jgraham> that would violate causality
  163. # [16:01] <jgraham> But I think that belongs to the set of possible things
  164. # [16:01] <plh> but we could do willful violation
  165. # [16:02] <jgraham> I dunno if it would be useful
  166. # [16:02] <plh> we'll reach to those folks
  167. # [16:02] <ato> jgraham: I think that might be a very interesting talk for GTAC.
  168. # [16:02] <jgraham> Only Hixie does willful violations. That's why he can do impossible things. They just take longer
  169. # [16:02] <plh> :)
  170. # [16:02] <tobie_> jgraham: curious whether your concern is running empty tests or whether it is tests appearing as done to contributors.
  171. # [16:02] <tobie_> (or both)
  172. # [16:04] <jgraham> tobie_: Both, plus general untidyness of mixing tests with stubs
  173. # [16:07] <wilhelm> MikeSmith: Hm. Maybe moving it to Thu-Fri could work, yes. Unless all the rooms are taken already. (c:
  174. # [16:07] <tobie_> OK. I guess those are reasonable arguments.
  175. # [16:08] <tobie_> jgraham: "stub-" prefix is OK?
  176. # [16:08] <jgraham> tobie_: For manual tests we used a suffix
  177. # [16:09] <tobie_> yeah, hence my question
  178. # [16:09] <jgraham> Well I there aren't strong software requirements here at least
  179. # [16:09] <tobie_> I liked the idea of a suffix as it seperates them better in the dear
  180. # [16:09] <Ms2ger> Well, that solves the question what we do for stub manual tests
  181. # [16:09] <tobie_> haha
  182. # [16:10] <jgraham> Hmm, test-manual-stub.html would also work since a stub isn't a test, by definition
  183. # [16:10] <jgraham> tobie_: You mean prefix?
  184. # [16:10] <jgraham> Yeah, I guess that's not an unreasonable argument
  185. # [16:11] <tobie_> yeah. I also meant dir
  186. # [16:11] <tobie_> (not dear).
  187. # [16:11] <MikeSmith> wilhelm: I can make sure we'll have a room, if we are certain we can meet on Thu-Fri. But if I book the room and we don't end up meeting, I'm going to get my ass kicked by others on the W3C team. So we really need to decide whether we're going to meet or not.
  188. # [16:11] <jgraham> Yeah, that too
  189. # [16:11] <jgraham> wilhelm: Or if we want MikeSmith to get his ass kicked
  190. # [16:12] <jgraham> wilhelm: I'm sure darobin would video it for us
  191. # [16:12] <Ms2ger> And denis from another angle?
  192. # [16:13] <darobin> if we bring too many cameras they'll reckon the room is being used and not kick MikeSmith's arse though
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  194. # [16:14] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] r12a opened pull request #1054: Header files for lang attribute tests (master...r12a/lang-headers) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1054
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  197. # [16:30] <wilhelm> MikeSmith: Yup.
  198. # [16:31] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: So which exact days will some people be gone for GTAC?
  199. # [16:31] <jgraham> wilhelm: GTAC appears to be 28-29th i.e. Tue-Wed
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  201. # [16:36] <AutomatedTester> its the Tuesday and Wednesday
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  203. # [16:38] <AutomatedTester> MikeSmith: while GTAC isnt a webdriver conference it has always been the unofficial webdriver conference
  204. # [16:38] <AutomatedTester> its such a shame that its clashing
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  207. # [16:41] <ato> If we can do the TPAC meetings on Thu-Fri it's actually pretty convenient for the few of us coming from the old world.
  208. # [16:41] <ato> In the sense that I don't have to fly over twice.
  209. # [16:41] <MikeSmith> ato: yeah there is that too
  210. # [16:42] <MikeSmith> well for now I'll tell the TPAC organizers to book the WG for Thu-Fri
  211. # [16:49] <wilhelm> MikeSmith: Thanks!
  212. # [16:49] <tobie_> jgraham: Prefixed the stubs and manually removed a bunch of sections which weren't testable.
  213. # [16:50] <tobie_> I'll generate a single github issue for this.
  214. # [16:51] <tobie_> (instead of one per section)
  215. # [16:53] <tobie_> jgraham: anything else blocking this experiment on your side?
  216. # [16:55] <jgraham> tobie_: Not that I can think of at the moment L)
  217. # [16:56] <jgraham> s/L/:/
  218. # [16:57] <tobie_> Alright, cool. Let me know if you think of anything else and thanks for the feedback so far.
  219. # [16:57] <tobie_> Think the stub- prefixing is actually very useful visually, now that I see it.
  220. # [16:59] <jgraham> tobie_: It would be breat if you could land a change to manifest.py to skip files prefixed "stub-" as part of this
  221. # [16:59] * Ms2ger wonders what happened to jgraham's typing
  222. # [16:59] <tobie_> jgraham: was looking at that.
  223. # [17:00] <tobie_> Ms2ger: he's been talking to me for the last hour or so. It rubs off.
  224. # [17:00] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I want to work on implementing some way to have critic post a comment to the the github page for a particular PR after somebody actually posts review comments critic
  225. # [17:00] <Ms2ger> MikeSmith, do it!
  226. # [17:00] <MikeSmith> jgraham: I don't mean mirroring every single comment
  227. # [17:00] <Ms2ger> In a way that we can run for Servo to
  228. # [17:00] <Ms2ger> o
  229. # [17:00] <jgraham> MikeSmith: That's a nice thing to want :)
  230. # [17:01] <jgraham> But I guess you will be hampered by "lack of access to critic code" :)
  231. # [17:01] <jgraham> Is this a push request?
  232. # [17:01] <MikeSmith> push?
  233. # [17:02] <MikeSmith> you mean from critic to github?
  234. # [17:02] <Ms2ger> A request for jgraham to publish his code?
  235. # [17:03] <MikeSmith> anyway I'll think more about it later. Right now I have to drop off to go to the airport
  236. # [17:03] <Ms2ger> Don't fall down
  237. # [17:03] <Ms2ger> And give us a call if you're going to disappear
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  243. # [17:44] <AutomatedTester> MikeSmith: did I read correctly that a webdriver wg meeting on Thursday/Friday of TPAC?
  244. # [17:44] <jgraham> AutomatedTester: Yes
  245. # [17:44] <AutomatedTester> hawt
  246. # [18:13] <plh> right now, webdriver wg is on Mon/Tue
  247. # [18:13] <plh> Mike is going to try to move it to Thu/Fri instead
  248. # [18:13] <plh> I know there is space on Thursday. not sure on Friday
  249. # [18:14] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  250. # [18:15] <plh> and the other thing is to figure whether there is interst from the GTAC guys to have WPT presented there. if there is, then the next step will be finding someone to do it
  251. # [18:21] <tobie_> jgraham: pushed manifest.py fix
  252. # [18:23] <jgraham> tobie_: Yeah, so I was thinking of just making this another kind of helper file, although I guess there might be good reasons not to do that e.g. if you want to list all stub files
  253. # [18:24] <jgraham> It could break some consumer as-is, but that's mostly my problem
  254. # [18:24] <tobie_> How so?
  255. # [18:24] <tobie_> if you doing a for in over the items prop?
  256. # [18:25] <jgraham> I guess most code is probably using itertypes with a whitelist of types, so it should be fine
  257. # [18:26] <tobie_> Happy to change this, though.
  258. # [18:26] <jgraham> I think it's probably better this way
  259. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> AutomatedTester: would be good to have your thoughts on whether a presentation at GTAC about web-platform-tests would be worthwhile (what plh mentioned here earlier)
  260. # [18:40] <MikeSmith> AutomatedTester: ato seems to think it would be at least
  261. # [18:41] <plh> tobie, I need to update http://w3c-test.org/dom/interfaces.html , which is out of sync with the latest DOM spec. will your PR do this update or should I do it?
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  265. # [19:05] <MikeSmith> botie, inform zcorpan I've had pretty much zero time this week to work again <picture> validation but I'm getting on another flight right now so I'll see how much I can manage to get done on the plane
  266. # [19:05] <botie> will do
  267. # [19:06] * MikeSmith hopes git finishes cloning the csswg-drafts repo before they do final call for his flight and close the gates
  268. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> ...and runs out of time
  269. # [19:08] <MikeSmith> thanks for nothing, Logan airport wifi
  270. # [19:10] <tobie_> plh: my PR is for SW only atm.
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  273. # [19:30] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] plehegar opened pull request #1055: Lastest DOM IDL (master...domidl) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1055
  274. # [19:30] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  275. # [19:31] <plh> s/Lastest/Latest/ :)
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  283. # [21:04] <AutomatedTester> MikeSmith: I think it might be
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  287. # [21:10] <plh> AutomatedTester, any suggestion on who to contact to get in touch with the GTAC committee?
  288. # [21:11] <AutomatedTester> plh: why would we need to contact them?
  289. # [21:11] * Quits: glenn__ (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  290. # [21:11] <plh> to ask about a presentation of WPT at GTAC
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  292. # [21:13] <plh> or maybe they issue a call for presentation?
  293. # [21:14] * Quits: glenn (~gadams@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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  295. # [21:24] <AutomatedTester> plh: they do a CFP
  296. # [21:24] <plh> thank you
  297. # [21:25] <AutomatedTester> plh: sorry, I get anxious just giving people's email address out ;)
  298. # [21:26] <plh> that's fine. I just don't want to miss an opportunity to reach to chrome testing community
  299. # [21:31] * Ms2ger hands out AutomatedTester's email address
  300. # [21:32] <AutomatedTester> plh: its not really targetted at browser vendors, its for people doing awesome things with test automation
  301. # [21:33] * Quits: MK (kawamori@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  302. # [21:33] <plh> we're awesome :)
  303. # [21:38] <Ms2ger> jgraham definitely is :)
  304. # [21:38] <plh> especially James!
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  307. # [21:59] * AutomatedTester takes the notes as his manager :)
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  318. # [23:13] <jgraham> AutomatedTester: I haven't been to GTAC, but it seems like wptrunner and the general approach to test automation might be interesting? I mean it's all using marionette / webdriver so to the extent that people are interested in in that they might be interested in this. And as plh asys, having more visibility inside Google doesn't sound bad.
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  321. # Session Close: Thu Jun 12 00:00:00 2014

The end :)