/irc-logs / w3c / #testing / 2014-07-07 / end

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  1. # Session Start: Mon Jul 07 00:00:01 2014
  2. # Session Ident: #testing
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  21. # [09:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker closed pull request #1089: Add a test for respecting the HTTP content length header. (master...jgraham/http_content_length) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1089
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  24. # [09:23] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] sideshowbarker pushed 1 new commit to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/8f89a2f16189a31c4e90dbc69ac860eed98295ce
  25. # [09:23] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 8f89a2f Michael[tm] Smith: Merge pull request #1089 from w3c/jgraham/http_content_length...
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  28. # [09:40] <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc
  29. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> hmm
  30. # [09:51] <MikeSmith> not sure we need RRSAgent logging this channel but ok
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  40. # [11:04] <simons> Greetings!
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  45. # [11:05] <Ms2ger> Morning y'all
  46. # [11:06] * Joins: lukeis (~Adium@public.cloak)
  47. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> hola
  48. # [11:06] * Joins: jimevans (~jimevans@public.cloak)
  49. # [11:06] <MikeSmith> wow it's a simons
  50. # [11:06] <simons> I LIVE!
  51. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> simons: yeah I guess the rumors that you still exist are true
  52. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> and I lost a best
  53. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> *bet
  54. # [11:07] <simons> Ha!
  55. # [11:07] * Joins: mdas (~mdas@public.cloak)
  56. # [11:07] <mdas> yay
  57. # [11:07] <simons> It’s been an intense… 7 months or so
  58. # [11:07] <MikeSmith> simons: I won't be at the f2f but I'm sure you guys will manage without me
  59. # [11:07] <lukeis> hola! :)
  60. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> simons: 7 months of vacation is certainly intense, yeah
  61. # [11:08] <simons> I’m hoping that jgraham knows how the irc bot works
  62. # [11:08] <simons> Vacation? Nope. Work
  63. # [11:08] <simons> And “personal matters"
  64. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> yeah just messing with you
  65. # [11:08] <Ms2ger> Oh, right, I was going to review the spec this weekend
  66. # [11:08] <MikeSmith> simons: I'll be around on IRC for the meeting if you need me
  67. # [11:08] <jgraham> I have no idea
  68. # [11:09] <jgraham> I know q+ and that's about it
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  71. # [11:09] <MikeSmith> Ms2ger: you missed some fun, man. whatever other way you spent your weekend was a waste. but you still have time to get the fully enjoyment
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  74. # [11:14] <simons> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2014-July-F2F
  75. # [11:14] <lukeis> Ø
  76. # [11:14] <mdas> ø
  77. # [11:14] <mdas> that was surprisingly easy
  78. # [11:14] <simons> æ
  79. # [11:14] <simons> Arse
  80. # [11:14] <simons> So close
  81. # [11:15] <wilhelm> Topic: Browser testing and tools WG F2F, London, July 7th
  82. # [11:15] <ato> There's an ø key on my keyboard. See, easy.
  83. # [11:15] <wilhelm> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2014-July-F2F
  84. # [11:15] <wilhelm> Chair: wilhelm
  85. # [11:16] <ato> What's the special command we do to say we're present?
  86. # [11:16] <wilhelm> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  87. # [11:16] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html wilhelm
  88. # [11:17] * wilhelm http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent
  89. # [11:17] [mdas:#testing /nick] mdas|meeting
  90. # [11:17] <mdas> oops wrong channel
  91. # [11:17] <Ms2ger> Present+ ato
  92. # [11:18] <JohnJansen> Present+ JohnJansen
  93. # [11:18] <ato> Present+ ato
  94. # [11:18] <jimevans> Present+ jimevans
  95. # [11:18] <ShuotaoGao> Present+ ShuotaoGao
  96. # [11:18] <lukeis> Present+ lukeis
  97. # [11:18] <simons> Present+ Simon Stewart
  98. # [11:18] <MarcFisher> Present+ Marc Fisher
  99. # [11:18] <ato> Presnet+ Andreas Tolfsen
  100. # [11:18] <mdas> Present+ Malini Das
  101. # [11:18] <ato> Present+ Andreas Tolfsen
  102. # [11:18] <wilhelm> Meeting: Browser testing & tools WG, F2F, July 7
  103. # [11:18] <jgraham> present+ jgraham
  104. # [11:18] <wilhelm> Present+ Wilhelm
  105. # [11:19] <AutomatedTester> present+ David Burns
  106. # [11:19] <wilhelm> RRSAgent, make log public
  107. # [11:19] <RRSAgent> I have made the request, wilhelm
  108. # [11:19] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  109. # [11:19] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  110. # [11:20] * Joins: remi (~remi@public.cloak)
  111. # [11:20] <wilhelm> Scribe: wilhelm
  112. # [11:23] <Ms2ger> Present+ SimonStewart MarcFisher AndreasTolfsen MaliniDas DavidBurns
  113. # [11:23] <simons> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2014-July-F2F
  114. # [11:23] <mdas> Ms2ger: heh thanks, I just noticed I'm both Malini and Das
  115. # [11:23] <Ms2ger> Present- Simon Stewart Marc Fisher Andreas Tolfsen Malini Das David Burns ato
  116. # [11:23] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  117. # [11:23] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  118. # [11:23] <wilhelm> Topic: State of the spec
  119. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minuts
  120. # [11:24] <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minuts', MikeSmith. Try /msg RRSAgent help
  121. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  122. # [11:24] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html MikeSmith
  123. # [11:24] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: What has changed is: A lot of bugfixes.
  124. # [11:24] <wilhelm> ... There's been standardizing layout, so the document ahs a flow.
  125. # [11:24] <wilhelm> ... Adding JSON wire protocol endpoints.
  126. # [11:24] <MikeSmith> Regrets+ MikeSmith
  127. # [11:24] <wilhelm> ... Filling in element state.
  128. # [11:25] <wilhelm> ... No major additions, mainly bugfixes.
  129. # [11:25] <wilhelm> ... If there's a bug for a missing section, that gets added.
  130. # [11:26] <MikeSmith> RRSAgent, make minutes
  131. # [11:26] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html MikeSmith
  132. # [11:26] <wilhelm> ... Properties and attributes. Should be split into distinct parts?
  133. # [11:27] <wilhelm> ato: WebIDL? We should discuss.
  134. # [11:27] <wilhelm> jgraham: The spec feels a bit confused and underdefined at the moment.
  135. # [11:28] <Ms2ger> s/ahs/has/
  136. # [11:28] <wilhelm> (Agenda point added for this.)
  137. # [11:29] <wilhelm> simons: Any issues with new sections?
  138. # [11:29] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Touch stuff, but that's in the agenda.
  139. # [11:29] <wilhelm> ShuotaoGao: Security issue.
  140. # [11:31] <wilhelm> Topic: Which bits of the spec are missing?
  141. # [11:31] <wilhelm> simons: Current timeline says we should reach LC around September.
  142. # [11:31] * Joins: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak)
  143. # [11:31] <wilhelm> wilhelm: (First last call.)
  144. # [11:31] <wilhelm> simons: We should figure out what we need to do to get to LC.
  145. # [11:32] <wilhelm> jgraham: *brings a stack of papers*
  146. # [11:32] <wilhelm> jgraham: I hadn't previously read the spec properly. I did so over the weekend.
  147. # [11:32] <wilhelm> ... Some structural issues. Some editorial, some more fundamental.
  148. # [11:33] <wilhelm> ... The history is a bit complicated. There's three things:
  149. # [11:33] <wilhelm> ... Client API. JSON protocol. Actual browser behaviour.
  150. # [11:33] <wilhelm> simons: Spec should define wire protocol, list of commands, expected behaviour.
  151. # [11:33] <wilhelm> simons: Client side is undefined.
  152. # [11:33] <wilhelm> jgraham: Sensible.
  153. # [11:34] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Should we delete the WebIDL parts?
  154. # [11:34] <wilhelm> jgraham: WebIDL definitions for a theoretical client.
  155. # [11:34] <wilhelm> simons: SHould we define the JSON payloads instead?
  156. # [11:34] <wilhelm> jgraham: WebIDL is to be used for language bindings. JS bindings in particular.
  157. # [11:35] <wilhelm> jgraham: You want: "The command format is this..."
  158. # [11:35] <wilhelm> jgraham: "It takes an object that takes these keys..."
  159. # [11:35] <wilhelm> jgraham: Someone at some point must have written a JSON schema language.
  160. # [11:36] <wilhelm> simons: There's an JSON hyperschema.
  161. # [11:36] <simons> http://json-schema.org/examples.html
  162. # [11:36] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Aren't the tables we have sufficient?
  163. # [11:36] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  164. # [11:36] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  165. # [11:36] <wilhelm> simons: We do the descriptions underneath. Nice to be able to glance at the spec and see which fields there are.
  166. # [11:37] <wilhelm> jgraham: It should define the message format. It should be like a switch table.
  167. # [11:37] <wilhelm> jgraham: Once you have an object on the browser side, you need to explain how to get a value out of it.
  168. # [11:37] <wilhelm> simons: Parameters tell you what parameters there are.
  169. # [11:37] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  170. # [11:37] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] dontcallmedom closed pull request #1092: Tagging all instructions to human testers. (master...master) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1092
  171. # [11:37] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
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  173. # [11:38] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] dontcallmedom pushed 2 new commits to master: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/8f89a2f16189...5c7d6394a1e8
  174. # [11:38] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 5d70831 Patrik Höglund: Tagging all instructions to human testers.
  175. # [11:38] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/master 5c7d639 Dominique Hazael-Massieux: Merge pull request #1092 from phoglund/master...
  176. # [11:38] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  177. # [11:38] <wilhelm> jgraham: If someone sends you a message with a missing command, what happens then?
  178. # [11:38] <wilhelm> jgraham: This should all be defined.
  179. # [11:38] <wilhelm> jgraham: There should be an algorithm in the spec defining all this.
  180. # [11:39] <wilhelm> simons: If we change WebIDL to JSON, and maybe beef up section 2, that would address the things you're talking about?
  181. # [11:39] <wilhelm> jgraham: First part. Getting as far as getting data in the commands.
  182. # [11:39] <wilhelm> jgraham: SHould have a list of steps.
  183. # [11:39] <wilhelm> jgraham: "If it's missing..."
  184. # [11:40] <wilhelm> jgraham: If you send a get message and there is no URL in that, what should happen?
  185. # [11:40] <wilhelm> jgraham: Say you've got the URL, it should have steps. From the current spec prose, should it be a relative URL or an absolute URL?
  186. # [11:40] <wilhelm> jgraham: What should happen if there is an error?
  187. # [11:41] <wilhelm> jgraham: The current spec describes a selection of cases, but not all.
  188. # [11:41] <Ms2ger> s/SHould/Should/
  189. # [11:41] <wilhelm> jgraham: It should call into the HTML navigate algorithm...
  190. # [11:41] <wilhelm> jgraham: "Cause the browser to navigate to a new location" is vague.
  191. # [11:42] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: We want the behaviour the browser to match the actual browser.
  192. # [11:43] <simons> HTML5 navigation algorithm: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec-LC/history.html#browsing-the-web
  193. # [11:43] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Failing to follow the HTML navigate algorithm shouldn't block compliance with _WebDriver_.
  194. # [11:43] <wilhelm> jgraham: "Navigate" is not a defined term here.
  195. # [11:44] <Ms2ger> WebDriver should behave the same as the (possibly buggy) implementation of the HTML algorithm
  196. # [11:44] <wilhelm> simons: Could you be compliant with the WebDriver spec with a buggy HTML navigation implementation?
  197. # [11:44] <wilhelm> jgraham: It's a bit of a moot point.
  198. # [11:44] <wilhelm> jgraham: We should't be vague instead.
  199. # [11:45] <wilhelm> simons: If we use should instead of must...
  200. # [11:45] <wilhelm> jgraham: Weasel-wording.
  201. # [11:45] <Ms2ger> There's no reason to not require it
  202. # [11:46] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: If the spec requires this algorithm, we should test it...
  203. # [11:46] <wilhelm> jgraham: In reality, that sort of conformance testing doesn't happen.
  204. # [11:46] <wilhelm> jgraham: The right answer is not to be vague.
  205. # [11:46] <wilhelm> simons: I agree.
  206. # [11:46] <wilhelm> simons: How do we do that in a way that allows...?
  207. # [11:46] <wilhelm> simons: Things like get are used by native mobile to get UI elements.
  208. # [11:47] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: We could have different codepaths. If you're native, then do this...
  209. # [11:47] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Android vs iOS?
  210. # [11:47] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: If they're treated as opaque strings, should we uniformly do this?
  211. # [11:48] <wilhelm> simons: That's the other extreme.
  212. # [11:48] <wilhelm> jgraham: If you want to know when the page load is finished, HTML defines this.
  213. # [11:49] <wilhelm> jgraham: Two of the spec's loading strategies are equivalent.
  214. # [11:49] <simons> simons asks wilhelm for input:
  215. # [11:49] <simons> wilhem: Now all we need to do is make it more like a real spec
  216. # [11:50] <simons> wilhelm: which means we’ve solved most of the technical questions (other than the bug list), but we should think about taking in all of jgraham’s input and have the spec match that.
  217. # [11:52] <wilhelm> ACTION: jgraham to submit patch for get
  218. # [11:52] * RRSAgent records action 1
  219. # [11:52] <wilhelm> ACTION: jgraham to submit bugs for the other issues
  220. # [11:52] * RRSAgent records action 2
  221. # [11:52] <wilhelm> (Tangent on naming of get.)
  222. # [11:53] * Joins: jimevans1 (~jimevans@public.cloak)
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  224. # [11:53] <wilhelm> simons: Is the purpose of the spec to tidy up all the rough edges from...?
  225. # [11:53] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Yes.
  226. # [11:54] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Spec already breaks compat with existing clients.
  227. # [11:54] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Let's do it right.
  228. # [11:55] <wilhelm> simons: Should we clean up the method names?
  229. # [11:56] <wilhelm> mdas: We should define window and frame.
  230. # [11:56] <wilhelm> mdas: (Swtich to frame, switch to window.)
  231. # [11:56] <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23020
  232. # [11:58] <wilhelm> jgraham: Should URLs be absolute or relative?
  233. # [11:58] <wilhelm> simons: Absolute.
  234. # [11:58] <wilhelm> jgraham: This is undefined.
  235. # [11:58] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Each implementation returns a different scary error message.
  236. # [11:59] <wilhelm> jgraham: There's probably an algorithm for determining if something is an absolute URL.
  237. # [11:59] <wilhelm> simons: Do anyone object to cleaning up the command names?
  238. # [12:00] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: With implementations on the books with the current methods, this seems like work...
  239. # [12:00] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: The only one that jumps out to me at the moment is get.
  240. # [12:00] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Same cleanup is needed for the open source project.
  241. # [12:01] <wilhelm> lukeis: There are a few breaking changes...
  242. # [12:02] <wilhelm> jimevans1: Error codes.
  243. # [12:02] <wilhelm> ato: There are some other commands that are conflicting and misleading.
  244. # [12:02] <wilhelm> ato: clear is another example.
  245. # [12:02] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  246. # [12:02] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  247. # [12:02] <wilhelm> ato: All methods under alerts.
  248. # [12:02] <wilhelm> ato: I don't think they have the correct names. sendKeys.
  249. # [12:03] <wilhelm> ato: getText
  250. # [12:03] <simons> Methods that I’m aware that people want to change: “get”, “clear”, “alerts commands”
  251. # [12:04] <simons> “submit” too
  252. # [12:07] <wilhelm> (Discussion on whether or not to include the submit command.)
  253. # [12:09] * Joins: lukeis1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  254. # [12:12] <wilhelm> ACTION: MarcFisher to not document submit
  255. # [12:12] * RRSAgent records action 3
  256. # [12:13] * Quits: lukeis (~Adium@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  257. # [12:14] <wilhelm> ACTION: AutomatedTester to retrofit seciton 17 through all commands
  258. # [12:14] * RRSAgent records action 4
  259. # [12:15] * Joins: lukeis (~Adium@public.cloak)
  260. # [12:16] <ato> get
  261. # [12:16] <ato> clear
  262. # [12:16] <ato> alert
  263. # [12:16] <ato> dismiss
  264. # [12:16] <ato> accept
  265. # [12:16] <ato> sendKeys
  266. # [12:16] <ato> getText
  267. # [12:16] <JohnJansen> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#widl-Alerts-dismiss-void
  268. # [12:17] <wilhelm> ato: Screenshots are not complete.
  269. # [12:18] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: We discussed scrolling or not scrolling in our last meeting. Mainly around reftests and position:fixed;
  270. # [12:19] * Quits: lukeis1 (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  271. # [12:19] <simons> I’ve updated the spec and removed the reference to “submit"
  272. # [12:20] <wilhelm> ACTION: JohnJansen to describe what he wants for screenshots (scrolling vs not scrolling)
  273. # [12:20] * RRSAgent records action 5
  274. # [12:22] <wilhelm> ACTION: simons to move "scaling the content of windows" to level 2
  275. # [12:22] * RRSAgent records action 6
  276. # [12:25] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Section 10 is missing "enabled" and "isInteractable".
  277. # [12:27] <wilhelm> jgraham: The platform uses "clicking" for a lot of things...
  278. # [12:28] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Use case: CSS transforms.
  279. # [12:29] <wilhelm> simons: We want to support multiple implementations of user interactions. Absolute position at the screen. Relative to top left of the DOM. In the current equivalent of hwind. ...
  280. # [12:29] <wilhelm> simons: There are implementations that do advanced user interactions on the local end.
  281. # [12:30] <wilhelm> simons: Drag something from the desktop into the browser.
  282. # [12:30] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: You can do that with JS. get bounding client rect.
  283. # [12:31] <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24995
  284. # [12:33] <wilhelm> simons: To allow dragging from elements into the browser: location in the DOM, location on the monitor (not included in the spec), location in the equivalent to hwind.
  285. # [12:33] <wilhelm> simons: If you're on OSX, this doesn't exist.
  286. # [12:33] <jgraham> Example possible text for "get" https://pastebin.mozilla.org/5528630
  287. # [12:33] * jgraham will also file a bug
  288. # [12:33] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Out of scope?
  289. # [12:33] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Outside of the window is out of scope.
  290. # [12:34] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Not for this spec.
  291. # [12:34] <wilhelm> simons: Use case: Drop photos into the browser.
  292. # [12:34] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: That's in the operating system..
  293. # [12:35] <wilhelm> simons: Yes.
  294. # [12:35] <wilhelm> (simons illustrates on whiteboard. Beautiful art.)
  295. # [12:42] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  296. # [12:42] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  297. # [12:43] * Ms2ger suggests someone takes a photograph of the beautiful art
  298. # [12:46] * MikeSmith seconds Ms2ger's motion
  299. # [12:46] * wilhelm will try to put the conclusion in writing
  300. # [12:47] <wilhelm> (Continued discussion of whether or not to return the absolute position of an element on the screen. Source code being discussed.)
  301. # [12:47] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Should this be in level 1?
  302. # [12:47] <wilhelm> simons: I can't see why not.
  303. # [12:48] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: I'd lean towards not having it.
  304. # [12:48] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Agreed.
  305. # [12:49] <wilhelm> simons: Should we have one command merging size and location?
  306. # [12:49] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: I'm fine with that.
  307. # [12:49] <wilhelm> ato: Size is already exposed via JS.
  308. # [12:50] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Many things are accessible via JS, but we expose them via the wire protocol.
  309. # [12:50] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: (Native testing.)
  310. # [12:51] <wilhelm> simons: location(x,y) should be relative to 0,0 of the DOM?
  311. # [12:51] <wilhelm> RESOLUTION: location(x,y) should be relative to 0,0 of the DOM
  312. # [12:52] <wilhelm> simons: location equivalent to getClientBoundingRect?
  313. # [12:52] <wilhelm> (No votes for that.)
  314. # [12:52] <wilhelm> simons: location equivalent to current operating system window handle?
  315. # [12:52] <wilhelm> (No votes for that.)
  316. # [12:53] <wilhelm> simons: location relative to the physical display?
  317. # [12:53] <wilhelm> (No votes for that.)
  318. # [12:54] * Joins: abarsto (~abarsto@public.cloak)
  319. # [12:54] * abarsto is now known as ArtB
  320. # [12:55] <wilhelm> simons: Should we discuss merging size and location?
  321. # [12:56] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: I don't see why we want to do that.
  322. # [12:56] <wilhelm> simons: Use case: Sauce labs on a different continent. Saves a roundtrip.
  323. # [12:56] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: It already gets all the data for getClientBoundingRect.
  324. # [12:57] <ato> http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/WD-geometry-1-20140522/#DOMRect
  325. # [12:57] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: What would we call this merged thing?
  326. # [12:57] <wilhelm> getElementRect?
  327. # [12:57] <Ms2ger> http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/geometry/#DOMRect
  328. # [12:57] <wilhelm> ato: (Refers to DOMRect)
  329. # [12:58] <Ms2ger> Given that there's discussion about having multiple drafts, who's volunteering to do the additional busywork?
  330. # [13:00] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: How about CSS shapes? You could return the actual shape...
  331. # [13:00] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: Return an object?
  332. # [13:00] <wilhelm> ato: What properties?
  333. # [13:00] <wilhelm> simons: size and location
  334. # [13:00] <wilhelm> simons: We can define this in terms of DOMRect.
  335. # [13:01] <wilhelm> simons: Do we want an additional command?
  336. # [13:01] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Replace.
  337. # [13:01] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: More a merge than a replace...
  338. # [13:01] <wilhelm> MarcFisher: Language bindings could just alias these.
  339. # [13:02] <wilhelm> simons: Quick vote on merging element location and element size?
  340. # [13:02] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Why not call getBoundingClientRect?
  341. # [13:02] <wilhelm> AutomatedTester: It's relative to viewport.
  342. # [13:02] <wilhelm> JohnJansen: Argument is: two roundtrips vs one.
  343. # [13:02] <wilhelm> simons: Yes.
  344. # [13:04] <wilhelm> ACTION: AutomatedTester to merge element location and size into getElementRect
  345. # [13:04] * RRSAgent records action 7
  346. # [13:09] * Quits: ShuotaoGao (~ShuotaoGao@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  347. # [13:10] * Quits: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  348. # [13:11] * Quits: remi (~remi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  349. # [13:17] * Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
  350. # [13:17] * Parts: Zakim (zakim@public.cloak) (Zakim)
  351. # [13:55] * Joins: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak)
  352. # [13:55] * Joins: ShuotaoGao (~ShuotaoGao@public.cloak)
  353. # [13:56] * Joins: remi (~remi@public.cloak)
  354. # [14:05] <simons> http://www.themeatmarket.co.uk/
  355. # [14:09] <wilhelm> Actions from last time:
  356. # [14:09] <wilhelm> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/26-testing-minutes.html
  357. # [14:09] <wilhelm> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/25-testing-minutes.html
  358. # [14:10] <ato> http://38.media.tumblr.com/21801c47ccff06fa5e6612aea5b87095/tumblr_mlqdctiGeH1rvsbh9o1_500.jpg
  359. # [14:10] <wilhelm> Scribe: MarcFisher
  360. # [14:14] <JohnJansen> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webdriver/raw-file/default/webdriver-spec.html#reporting-errors
  361. # [14:15] <MarcFisher> mdas: Section 11.4 JavaScript error reporting is empty.
  362. # [14:15] <MarcFisher> simons: return javascript error object and optionally stack trace in the response.
  363. # [14:17] <wilhelm> http://31.media.tumblr.com/82ad44a2be111c6732e9ebff2a046daf/tumblr_n7ab3elDle1rvsbh9o1_500.png
  364. # [14:18] <MarcFisher> Action: AutomatedTester will update Section 11.4 with simons proposal
  365. # [14:18] * RRSAgent records action 8
  366. # [14:20] <MarcFisher> simons: not adding onError support, but can shove js errors to logs.
  367. # [14:22] <MarcFisher> AutomatedTester: do we need to add delete cookie support.
  368. # [14:23] <MarcFisher> simons: sounds like delete cookie would not be fun to implement.
  369. # [14:23] <MarcFisher> AtuomatedTester: spec currently suggests deleting cookie by setting expiry to the past.
  370. # [14:24] * Joins: plh (plehegar@public.cloak)
  371. # [14:26] <Ms2ger> s/AtuomatedTester/AutomatedTester/
  372. # [14:26] <AutomatedTester> Ms2ger: <3
  373. # [14:27] <MarcFisher> ShuotaoGao: can we delete httpOnly cookies with this work around.
  374. # [14:27] <JohnJansen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25008
  375. # [14:27] <MarcFisher> simons: probably not, but with the way cookies are usually used, this probably doesn't matter.
  376. # [14:27] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  377. # [14:27] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  378. # [14:27] <JohnJansen> Let's resolve the bug so we don't discuss again when going through bugs
  379. # [14:28] <MarcFisher> Action: AutomateTester document how to delete httpOnly cookies
  380. # [14:28] * RRSAgent records action 9
  381. # [14:28] <MarcFisher> s/AutomateTester/AutomatedTester/
  382. # [14:32] <MarcFisher> Add support for getting timeout values.
  383. # [14:33] <MarcFisher> simons: get the all as one go?
  384. # [14:33] <MarcFisher> many people: probably
  385. # [14:35] <MarcFisher> AutomatedTester: rename timeouts to setTimeouts in level 1. getTimeouts can be in level 1 or level 2.
  386. # [14:35] <MarcFisher> MarcFisher: pass in a map of timeouts in renamed setTimeouts
  387. # [14:38] <MarcFisher> jimevans1: page load timeout of -1, never timeouts.
  388. # [14:39] <MarcFisher> Action: add how timeouts should be handled in Section 5.1.1
  389. # [14:39] * RRSAgent records action 10
  390. # [14:40] <MarcFisher> jgraham: should have a wait for page load algorithm that is referred to from get (and anywhere else)
  391. # [14:40] <AutomatedTester> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26275
  392. # [14:40] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26275
  393. # [14:43] <MarcFisher> Action: review jgraham's draft for get (in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26275) for handling of timeouts and page loading strategy
  394. # [14:43] * RRSAgent records action 11
  395. # [14:43] <MarcFisher> Action: rename timeouts to setTimeouts and change to take dictionary<type, ms>
  396. # [14:43] * RRSAgent records action 12
  397. # [14:50] <MarcFisher> Resolution: don't add getTimeouts to level 1, save for level 2.
  398. # [14:51] * jgraham notes http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent if anyone wants to know the commands
  399. # [14:51] <ato> I don't think RRSAgent recognizes Resolution:?
  400. # [14:52] * darobin thinks it recognises RESOLUTION:
  401. # [14:52] <ato> Or maybe it's just for the minutes.
  402. # [14:52] * darobin you need to be REALLY resolved, as in ALL CAPS RESOLVED
  403. # [14:52] * darobin but maybe that's just scribe.pl indeed
  404. # [14:55] * MikeSmith yeah, CAPS needed
  405. # [14:56] * jgraham notes that isn't documented in the docs
  406. # [14:59] <MarcFisher> MarcFisher: section 15.2 looks incomplete
  407. # [14:59] <MarcFisher> MarcFisher: do we even need it?
  408. # [14:59] <MarcFisher> simons: yes
  409. # [15:00] <MarcFisher> discussion about what should be done with Section 15.2
  410. # [15:00] <MarcFisher> Action: simons define how to handle modal windows
  411. # [15:00] * RRSAgent records action 13
  412. # [15:01] * jgraham wishes that webdriver had the script where you can click on definitions and see where they are used
  413. # [15:03] * darobin I don't believe it's been deployed yet but IIRC you can use https://github.com/darobin/specstatic for that
  414. # [15:04] <JohnJansen> RESOLVED: don't add getTimeouts to level 1, wait for level 2.
  415. # [15:06] <MarcFisher> AutomatedTester: is the takesScreenshot capability useful.
  416. # [15:06] <MarcFisher> RESOLVED: keep screenshot capabilities
  417. # [15:17] <MarcFisher> MarcFisher: I don't like the note in Section 18.1 as the table it references doesn't reflect the current browser ecosystem.
  418. # [15:17] <MarcFisher> simons: I will remove the note.
  419. # [15:18] <MarcFisher> Action: simons will create something to generate Appendix A
  420. # [15:18] * RRSAgent records action 14
  421. # [15:19] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  422. # [15:19] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] dontcallmedom closed pull request #277: peerconnection api tests (master...submission/robo) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/277
  423. # [15:19] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  424. # [15:19] <MarcFisher> Action: simons will create something to generate Section C
  425. # [15:19] * RRSAgent records action 15
  426. # [15:20] <MarcFisher> simons: work on strawman for Section E logging
  427. # [15:23] * Quits: remi (~remi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  428. # [15:28] * Quits: jimevans1 (~jimevans@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  429. # [15:30] <MarcFisher> simons: drew straw man proposal on whiteboard
  430. # [15:30] * Joins: jimevans (~jimevans@public.cloak)
  431. # [15:31] <MarcFisher> simons: do we want to support paging of logs in level 1?
  432. # [15:31] <ato> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TyFnpMYf7Lo/U7qgSN9PqmI/AAAAAAAAFOo/qaKthN50320/w764-h573-no/IMG_20140707_142707.jpg
  433. # [15:31] <MarcFisher> lukeis: if a log is fetched, is it purged?
  434. # [15:32] <MarcFisher> simons: I think so
  435. # [15:32] <MarcFisher> AutomatedTester: have an argument for deleting
  436. # [15:32] <MarcFisher> simons: have a command to get log names and host names
  437. # [15:33] * Joins: remi (~remi@public.cloak)
  438. # [15:33] <MarcFisher> simons: have another command to get logs with an optional host name, log name, and purge boolean
  439. # [15:34] <MarcFisher> AutomatedTester: how do we handle cases where links in the chain are broken?
  440. # [15:34] <MarcFisher> simons: we go as far up the chain as we can
  441. # [15:35] <MarcFisher> JohnJansen: how do we prevent hostname clashes and logname clashes?
  442. # [15:35] <MarcFisher> simons: I am not sure how we prevent this.
  443. # [15:35] <MarcFisher> jgraham: why do we want to use a hostname anyways?
  444. # [15:36] <MarcFisher> simons: okay, maybe not a hostname, but some sort of a key
  445. # [15:36] <MarcFisher> ShuotaoGao: use a role key
  446. # [15:37] <MarcFisher> simons: combination of role key and hostname, and if you have a clash that is a terrible pity
  447. # [15:38] <MarcFisher> MarcFisher: do we like the straw man?
  448. # [15:39] <MarcFisher> ato: alternative would be listener on the logs for different nodes.
  449. # [15:40] * Joins: seva (~seva@public.cloak)
  450. # [15:40] <MarcFisher> jimevans: one controversy is what types of logs. Are we prescribing log types?
  451. # [15:40] <MarcFisher> simons: I won't prescribe logs at this time.
  452. # [15:41] <seva> Vsevolod Lotoshnikov came in.
  453. # [15:41] <AutomatedTester> Ms2ger: ^ how do we add Seva with Present ?
  454. # [15:43] <MarcFisher> mdas: Logging doesn't make sense in this spec?
  455. # [15:43] <MarcFisher> simons: you should implement logging, and if you do, you must conform to this spec.
  456. # [15:44] <MarcFisher> jgraham: makes just as much sense to say that you must implement this, but return empty.
  457. # [15:45] <MarcFisher> RESOLVED: push logging to level 2.
  458. # [15:46] <MarcFisher> Action: simons delete section E logging
  459. # [15:46] * RRSAgent records action 16
  460. # [15:46] <mdas> MarcFisher: does RESOLVED work? I thought it was Resolution?
  461. # [15:47] <mdas> MarcFisher: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm?content-type=text/html#Quick_Start_Guide seems to point to RESOLUTION
  462. # [15:48] <MarcFisher> mdas: yeah, looks like you are right
  463. # [15:48] <MarcFisher> RESOLUTION: push logging to level 2
  464. # [15:49] <simons> https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3514.txt
  465. # [15:49] <Ms2ger> Present+ VsevolodLotoshnikov
  466. # [15:49] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  467. # [15:49] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  468. # [15:51] <MarcFisher> Discussion of Section F, security and privacy.
  469. # [15:51] <mdas> MarcFisher: I don't think I can set resolutions, so there are 2 other instances of Resolved that needs to be recorded: "RESOLVED: keep screenshot capabilities" and " RESOLVED: don't add getTimeouts to level 1, wait for level 2."
  470. # [15:51] <MarcFisher> RESOLUTION: keep screenshot capabilities
  471. # [15:51] <MarcFisher> RESOLUTION: don't add getTimeouts to level 1, wait for level 2.
  472. # [15:52] <MarcFisher> mdas: thanks for finding those for me
  473. # [15:52] <mdas> MarcFisher: np
  474. # [15:52] <MarcFisher> Action: localhost restriction in Section F.2 to should
  475. # [15:52] * RRSAgent records action 17
  476. # [15:56] <ato> «Benign packets have this bit set to 0; those that
  477. # [15:56] <ato> are used for an attack will have the bit set to 1.»
  478. # [16:00] <MarcFisher> Action: simons to create something to generate Section G. Mapping to HTTP and JSON
  479. # [16:00] * RRSAgent records action 18
  480. # [16:01] <MarcFisher> RESOLUTION: keep Section F Security non-normative, remove normative language, keep fingerprinting
  481. # [16:08] * Quits: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  482. # [16:16] * wilhelm https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver
  483. # [16:16] <mdas> wilhelm: thanks
  484. # [16:17] <Ms2ger> s/wilhelm: thanks//
  485. # [16:20] <ShuotaoGao> http://www.w3.org/2013/06/13-testing-minutes.html
  486. # [16:20] * Joins: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak)
  487. # [16:20] <mdas> Scribe: mdas
  488. # [16:20] <ShuotaoGao> http://www.w3.org/2013/06/14-testing-minutes.html
  489. # [16:24] <simons> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebDriver/2014-July-F2F
  490. # [16:25] <ato> lukeis: webdriver/client
  491. # [16:27] * Quits: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  492. # [16:28] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26151
  493. # [16:28] <mdas> Topic: Bug 26151: [WebDriver Spec]: 2.6 Simplify JSON wire protocol to use one URL
  494. # [16:34] <mdas> simons: originally, if you are modifying state, use POST if not, use GET
  495. # [16:34] <mdas> jgraham: this is unclear from the spec
  496. # [16:35] <mdas> simons: renaming/rewiring commands would be painful
  497. # [16:36] <mdas> jimevans: there are at least two browser implementations do not use HTTP as primary transport. By not encoding the full parameters in JSON, we are forced to use HTTP and complicates implementation
  498. # [16:37] <mdas> jimevans: if all data were in json, it will be simpler
  499. # [16:43] <mdas> simons: since no one uses parameters, we can row back and stick to using HTTP and urls, as that causes minimal changes
  500. # [16:43] <mdas> jimevans: I understand the reason behind using HTTP based protocol, but I bring this up to point out that it imposes a burden on implementors
  501. # [16:44] <mdas> simons: handling the HTTP/urls should be an easy fix
  502. # [16:44] <mdas> simons: suggests we row back what gets put in command and just use the parameters field
  503. # [16:45] <mdas> AutomatedTester: do we make the url endpoints look more meaningful?
  504. # [16:45] <mdas> simons: (asks for example)
  505. # [16:46] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  506. # [16:46] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] hallvors created hallvors/clipboard-apis (+2 new commits): https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/compare/ae248da43e0d^...0a5c9566c96a
  507. # [16:46] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/hallvors/clipboard-apis ae248da Hallvord R. M. Steen: Adding clipboard API generated tests
  508. # [16:46] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/hallvors/clipboard-apis 0a5c956 Hallvord R. M. Steen: titles updated, improved to avoid duplicates
  509. # [16:46] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  510. # [16:46] <mdas> AutomatedTester: session/sessionId/window is a POST but has no GET
  511. # [16:47] <mdas> jimevans: there is a GET for that
  512. # [16:47] <mdas> simons: least invasive change would be to match up the asymmetry we have for the urls
  513. # [16:48] <mdas> jimevans: however, for those implementations that do not use HTTP protocol, what are they expected to pass across their remote end?
  514. # [16:48] <mdas> simons: we do not specify that
  515. # [16:49] <mdas> simons: command names become unimportant, urls are important
  516. # [16:49] <simons> URLs and HTTP verbs
  517. # [16:50] <mdas> ACTION: AutomatedTester to close bug as unimplemented, comment on Bug 24976
  518. # [16:50] * RRSAgent records action 19
  519. # [16:50] <mdas> simons: ^urls and HTTP verbs are important
  520. # [16:52] <mdas> jimevans: if you want to bypass the HTTP protocol, there is standard for the command names and you don't know what to send over to the remote end.
  521. # [16:53] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  522. # [16:53] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] hallvors opened pull request #1097: Importing test suite for clipboard api spec to web-platform-tests (master...hallvors/clipboard-apis) https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/1097
  523. # [16:53] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  524. # [16:54] * Joins: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak)
  525. # [16:54] -gitbot:#testing- [web-platform-tests] hallvors pushed 1 new commit to hallvors/clipboard-apis: https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/commit/4c6cac1db150eee640e8c0fa7394be724dc1b831
  526. # [16:54] -gitbot:#testing- web-platform-tests/hallvors/clipboard-apis 4c6cac1 Hallvord R. M. Steen: adding missing final linebreak to html files
  527. # [16:54] * Parts: gitbot (~gitbot@public.cloak) (gitbot)
  528. # [16:56] <mdas> simons: the local end should use (or speak to something that uses) the wire protocol
  529. # [16:57] <mdas> ACTION: simons -> GET vs POST clarifications
  530. # [16:57] * RRSAgent records action 20
  531. # [16:57] <simons> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6570
  532. # [16:58] <mdas> ACTION: remove section 2.1
  533. # [16:58] * RRSAgent records action 21
  534. # [16:58] <mdas> ACTION: Command names should be non-normative
  535. # [16:58] * RRSAgent records action 22
  536. # [16:59] <mdas> ACTION: specify what the HTTP headers should be for each commands
  537. # [16:59] * RRSAgent records action 23
  538. # [17:00] <mdas> ACTION: what an HTTP request and response should look like
  539. # [17:00] * RRSAgent records action 24
  540. # [17:02] <mdas> TOPIC: Bug 26158: JSON serialization of element does not make clear that JSON represents an element
  541. # [17:02] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26158
  542. # [17:03] * Joins: MarcFisher (~MarcFisher@public.cloak)
  543. # [17:03] <mdas> jimevans: the spec says "id" and it's too common
  544. # [17:03] <mdas> simons: suggests ELEMENT
  545. # [17:04] <mdas> ACTION: for Bug 26158: update to ELEMENT
  546. # [17:04] * RRSAgent records action 25
  547. # [17:05] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26137
  548. # [17:05] <mdas> TOPIC: Bug 26137 - Algorithm for serializing a result is broken
  549. # [17:05] <mdas> jgraham: it shouldn't use webIDL types since it's operating on JS objects
  550. # [17:05] <mdas> ... it should just talk js objects
  551. # [17:06] <mdas> ... and if you iterate over an object, it should be clear over what properties it goes through (getOwnProperties? etc)
  552. # [17:06] <mdas> ... if you have self.referencing objects, it goes through an infinite loop right now
  553. # [17:07] <mdas> ... we should clarify the latter, and document all behaviour better
  554. # [17:08] <mdas> simon: for infinite loop on say "return window" we should return an error
  555. # [17:08] <mdas> jgraham: or some sensible serialization
  556. # [17:09] <mdas> ACTION: AutomatedTester will address Bug 26137 -> clarify and document serialization algorithm
  557. # [17:09] * RRSAgent records action 26
  558. # [17:10] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26147
  559. # [17:10] <mdas> TOPIC: Bug 26147 - Don't conflate attributes and properties in getElementAttribute
  560. # [17:11] <mdas> simons: what's the difference between an attribute and property (rhetorical)
  561. # [17:11] <mdas> simons: most of the users conflate the two anyway, especially testing folks
  562. # [17:12] <mdas> lukeis: getting attribute value is the one we care about, and the attribute and property is updated when either value is changed.
  563. # [17:13] <mdas> jgraham: there is a fundamental difference, and they hold different data
  564. # [17:13] <mdas> simons: that's why tehre's an algorithm to find the difference between them and return the right value
  565. # [17:13] * Ms2ger suggests mdas actually mentions who's supposed to do the actions
  566. # [17:14] <mdas> Ms2ger: I have been for the ones people have claimed
  567. # [17:14] <mdas> damn that's scribed.
  568. # [17:14] <mdas> I will bug them after this topic
  569. # [17:15] <Ms2ger> s/Ms2ger: I have been for the ones people have claimed//
  570. # [17:15] <Ms2ger> s/damn that's scribed.//
  571. # [17:15] <Ms2ger> s/I will bug them after this topic//
  572. # [17:16] <mdas> s/Ms2ger: I have been for the ones people have claimed//
  573. # [17:16] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  574. # [17:16] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  575. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> s|s/Ms2ger: I have been for the ones people have claimed//||
  576. # [17:18] <Ms2ger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  577. # [17:18] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html Ms2ger
  578. # [17:19] * Ms2ger (inception)
  579. # [17:20] <mdas> simons: end-users would be confused by the difference between property vs. attribute
  580. # [17:20] <mdas> simons: in my experience with QA,they don't know what the DOM spec should do. If you do know the difference, call "executeScript", if you don't, use "getAttribute" since it'll probably give you want you want
  581. # [17:21] <Ms2ger> I don't think the solution to confusion is to make things more confusing
  582. # [17:21] <simons> My experience is that this doesn’t make it more confusing
  583. # [17:22] <mdas> AutomatedTester: should we be educating people or give people this method?
  584. # [17:23] <mdas> MarcFisher and simons have a cynical conversation
  585. # [17:23] <mdas> simons: people want simple functions rather than precise methods
  586. # [17:23] <mdas> AutomatedTester: remove it?
  587. # [17:23] <mdas> simons: That doesn't solve the problem, how do you get what you want?
  588. # [17:25] <mdas> simons: I can see the argument, technical correctness is important, and people shouldn't be lazy in teh first place, but first hand experience from users has shown that they don't know the difference and they don't want to know the difference
  589. # [17:25] <mdas> ... the difference is confusing
  590. # [17:26] <mdas> jgraham: the algorithm is confusing since attributes/properties will be returned with different priorities depending on teh situation
  591. # [17:27] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  592. # [17:28] <mdas> lukeis: looking at the algorithm, we special case many things
  593. # [17:29] <mdas> jgraham: what makes it worse is that the spec makes it look like attribute values are going to be returned first.
  594. # [17:29] <mdas> ... the algorithm should be written clearer
  595. # [17:29] <mdas> simons: agreed
  596. # [17:29] <lukeis> https://github.com/SeleniumHQ/selenium/blob/master/javascript/webdriver/atoms/element.js#L127
  597. # [17:32] <mdas> jgraham: can use a parameter to specifcy what to return, either attribute or parameter
  598. # [17:32] <mdas> s/jgraham: can use a parameter to specifcy what to return, either attribute or parameter/jgraham: can use a parameter to specifcy what to return, either attribute or property
  599. # [17:33] <mdas> ato__: I'd much rather split them to avoid the complex algorithm
  600. # [17:33] <mdas> simons: so, I'm confident a large group of users don't know or don't care. The code is easier to follow than the written explanation, which should be improved
  601. # [17:35] * Quits: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak) ("")
  602. # [17:36] * Quits: remi (~remi@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  603. # [17:36] <mdas> jgraham: as a style point, you don't need to use normative language in the algorithm explanation
  604. # [17:37] <mdas> break for a few minutes
  605. # [17:41] * Joins: lmclister (~lmclister@public.cloak)
  606. # [17:44] <mdas> simons: voting on options
  607. # [17:45] <mdas> simons: current wording, or cleaner wording?
  608. # [17:45] <mdas> MarcFisher: we need simpler explanation in spec. Property first then attribute in edge cases
  609. # [17:47] <mdas> cleaner wording is implied
  610. # [17:51] <mdas> ACTION: simons to give a clearer algorithm explanation for getAttribute (Bug 26147)
  611. # [17:51] * RRSAgent records action 27
  612. # [17:52] <mdas> RESOLUTION: just clarify the algorithm but leave getAttribute unchanged for Bug 26147
  613. # [17:52] <mdas> Bug 25164 falls under this resolution
  614. # [17:53] <mdas> RESOLUTION: Bug 25148 won't fix
  615. # [17:53] <mdas> RESOLUTION: Bug 24832 already decided to listen on both
  616. # [17:54] <mdas> TOPIC: Open bugs
  617. # [17:54] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24847
  618. # [17:56] * astearns_ is now known as astearns
  619. # [17:57] <mdas> simons: match by visible text implied for Bug 24847
  620. # [17:58] <mdas> MarcFisher: if we do this, it will be slower and we will break current users since they get new elements.
  621. # [17:58] <mdas> simons: we'd need a new strategy
  622. # [17:59] * Joins: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak)
  623. # [18:00] <mdas> simon: when you call getElementText, if you memoize, subsequent calls will be faster
  624. # [18:00] <mdas> more discussion
  625. # [18:00] <mdas> voted for Level 2
  626. # [18:01] <mdas> RESOLUTION: Bug 24847 to be added in Level 2
  627. # [18:01] <mdas> RESOLUTION: Bug 24976 is fixed already
  628. # [18:02] <mdas> ACTION: MarcFisher will fix Bug 24988
  629. # [18:02] * RRSAgent records action 28
  630. # [18:02] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25013
  631. # [18:02] <mdas> Bug 25008 and Bug 25012 have already been discussed
  632. # [18:03] <mdas> MarcFisher: for Bug 25013 left/right shifts are all aliases
  633. # [18:03] <mdas> ... it's the same for selenium
  634. # [18:03] * Quits: dom (dom@public.cloak) ("")
  635. # [18:03] * Joins: rhauck1 (~Adium@public.cloak)
  636. # [18:03] <mdas> ... so we imply we can send it, but we can't
  637. # [18:04] <mdas> ACTION: MarcFisher to remove aliases for Bug 25013
  638. # [18:04] * RRSAgent records action 29
  639. # [18:06] <mdas> MarcFisher: Bug 25014 sendKeys on alert accepts a string, not a string[]
  640. # [18:06] <mdas> simons: they should be the same, we should change that
  641. # [18:06] <mdas> MarcFisher: the string[] is handed on the local end, so we can send a string
  642. # [18:07] * Quits: rhauck (~Adium@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  643. # [18:08] <mdas> simons: argument for: localend can do it, downside: it is one of the most widely used APIs
  644. # [18:08] <mdas> ... we can do it without impacting existing users
  645. # [18:09] <mdas> voting to take a string
  646. # [18:09] <mdas> carried
  647. # [18:09] <mdas> ACTION: AutomatedTester to fix Bug 25014 to change to a string
  648. # [18:09] * RRSAgent records action 30
  649. # [18:09] <mdas> Bug 25096 discussed already
  650. # [18:10] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25106
  651. # [18:10] <mdas> ACTION: AutomatedTester will fix Bug 25106
  652. # [18:10] * RRSAgent records action 31
  653. # [18:10] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25286
  654. # [18:10] <mdas> voting on Bug 25286
  655. # [18:11] <mdas> going for CSS
  656. # [18:11] <mdas> ACTION: AutomatedTester to define use of CSS pixels for Bug 25286
  657. # [18:11] * RRSAgent records action 32
  658. # [18:14] <mdas> simons: when i do getLocation and get CSS pixels, is that the type of pixel we should use for dispatching events?
  659. # [18:14] <mdas> jgraham: everything DOM level deals with CSS pixels
  660. # [18:15] <mdas> (regarding Bug 25694
  661. # [18:15] <mdas> s/(regarding Bug 25694/(regarding Bug 25694)
  662. # [18:16] <mdas> s/(regarding Bug 25694)/(regarding Bug 25286)
  663. # [18:16] <simons> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=25694
  664. # [18:16] <mdas> now discussing Bug 25694 - 16.2 section isn't needed as it's possible to take screenshot of "html"/"body"
  665. # [18:19] <mdas> takeScreenshot can take nested frames
  666. # [18:19] <mdas> RESOLUTION: won't fix Bug 25694
  667. # [18:21] * Joins: hober (~ted@public.cloak)
  668. # [18:22] <mdas> MarcFisher: for Bug 25694, we should separate capabilities and browsers should pick what they want to do
  669. # [18:22] <mdas> now discussing Bug 22653 -Container visibility when children are visible, but parent is hidden
  670. # [18:24] <mdas> simons: having access to render tree would be helpful here
  671. # [18:24] <mdas> more wishful thinking
  672. # [18:25] <mdas> JohnJansen: can't we defer visibility bugs to CSS WG?
  673. # [18:25] <mdas> simons: tried. weren't responsive
  674. # [18:27] <mdas> ... the best we can do is put a note in the spec and note the cases we know work properly
  675. # [18:27] <mdas> ... and not cover every single edge case
  676. # [18:28] <mdas> AutomatedTester: people mostly care about interactibility, not visibility
  677. # [18:28] <mdas> counterarguments ensue
  678. # [18:29] <simons> http://findtheinvisiblecow.com/
  679. # [18:29] * Quits: Lachy (~Lachy@public.cloak) ("My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…")
  680. # [18:29] <mdas> seva: wants to make sure we do not inhibit the spec
  681. # [18:30] <mdas> JohnJansen: we must prove the spec is implementable, and we will have cases where no two browsers will match
  682. # [18:30] <mdas> ... so we should improve this over time when we go to Recommendation stage
  683. # [18:35] * Quits: jimevans (~jimevans@public.cloak) ("Leaving.")
  684. # [18:36] <mdas> s/ACTION: remove section 2.1/ACTION: simons to remove section 2.1
  685. # [18:36] <mdas> s/ACTION: Command names should be non-normative/ACTION: simons to update command names should be non-normative
  686. # [18:36] <mdas> s/ACTION: specify what the HTTP headers should be for each commands/ACTION: simons to specify what the HTTP headers should be for each commands
  687. # [18:36] <mdas> s/ACTION: what an HTTP request and response should look like/ACTION: simons to explain what an HTTP request and response should look like
  688. # [18:37] <mdas> s/ACTION: for Bug 26158: update to ELEMENT/ACTION: AutomatedTester to take Bug 26158 - update to ELEMENT
  689. # [18:37] <mdas> RRSAgent, draft minutes
  690. # [18:37] <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-minutes.html mdas
  691. # [18:38] * Quits: simons (~simons@public.cloak) (simons)
  692. # [18:38] * Parts: seva (~seva@public.cloak)
  693. # [18:38] <mdas> RRSAgent, bye
  694. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> I see 32 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-actions.rdf :
  695. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> ACTION: jgraham to submit patch for get [1]
  696. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T09-47-53
  697. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> ACTION: jgraham to submit bugs for the other issues [2]
  698. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T09-48-06
  699. # [18:38] <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarcFisher to not document submit [3]
  700. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T10-08-55
  701. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to retrofit seciton 17 through all commands [4]
  702. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T10-11-11
  703. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: JohnJansen to describe what he wants for screenshots (scrolling vs not scrolling) [5]
  704. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T10-17-15
  705. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons to move "scaling the content of windows" to level 2 [6]
  706. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T10-19-29
  707. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to merge element location and size into getElementRect [7]
  708. # [18:39] * Quits: AutomatedTester (~AutomatedTester@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  709. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T11-00-33
  710. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester will update Section 11.4 with simons proposal [8]
  711. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-15-04
  712. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomateTester document how to delete httpOnly cookies [9]
  713. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-25-06
  714. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: add how timeouts should be handled in Section 5.1.1 [10]
  715. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-36-10
  716. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: review jgraham's draft for get (in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26275) for handling of timeouts and page loading strategy [11]
  717. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-39-05
  718. # [18:39] * Parts: lukeis (~Adium@public.cloak) (lukeis)
  719. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: rename timeouts to setTimeouts and change to take dictionary<type, ms> [12]
  720. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-40-12
  721. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons define how to handle modal windows [13]
  722. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T12-57-29
  723. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons will create something to generate Appendix A [14]
  724. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T13-14-54
  725. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons will create something to generate Section C [15]
  726. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T13-16-04
  727. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons delete section E logging [16]
  728. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T13-42-53
  729. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> ACTION: localhost restriction in Section F.2 to should [17]
  730. # [18:39] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T13-49-09
  731. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons to create something to generate Section G. Mapping to HTTP and JSON [18]
  732. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T13-56-32
  733. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to close bug as unimplemented, comment on Bug 24976 [19]
  734. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-47-03
  735. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons -> GET vs POST clarifications [20]
  736. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-54-19
  737. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: remove section 2.1 [21]
  738. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-54-38
  739. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: Command names should be non-normative [22]
  740. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-54-54
  741. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: specify what the HTTP headers should be for each commands [23]
  742. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-55-59
  743. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: what an HTTP request and response should look like [24]
  744. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T14-56-45
  745. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: for Bug 26158: update to ELEMENT [25]
  746. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T15-00-59
  747. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester will address Bug 26137 -> clarify and document serialization algorithm [26]
  748. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T15-05-48
  749. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: simons to give a clearer algorithm explanation for getAttribute (Bug 26147) [27]
  750. # [18:40] * Quits: mdas (~mdas@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
  751. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T15-47-59
  752. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarcFisher will fix Bug 24988 [28]
  753. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T15-58-38
  754. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: MarcFisher to remove aliases for Bug 25013 [29]
  755. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T16-00-52
  756. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to fix Bug 25014 to change to a string [30]
  757. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T16-06-16
  758. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester will fix Bug 25106 [31]
  759. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T16-07-04
  760. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> ACTION: AutomatedTester to define use of CSS pixels for Bug 25286 [32]
  761. # [18:40] <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/07/07-testing-irc#T16-07-51
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  783. # [22:39] * Topic is '"also, I hope no one actually reads this, but I have to admit that I've kind of gotten used to Critic" --darobin'
  784. # [22:39] * Set by plh on Mon Mar 31 21:50:34
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  811. # [23:29] * Quits: ptressel (~chatzilla@public.cloak) ("zzz")
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  813. # [23:35] * heycam|away is now known as heycam
  814. # [23:44] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Client closed connection)
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  816. # [23:50] * Quits: plh (plehegar@public.cloak) ("Leaving")
  817. # [23:51] * Quits: darobin (rberjon@public.cloak) (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
  818. # Session Close: Tue Jul 08 00:00:00 2014

The end :)